9 replies to this topic

[nameless]

I just got my bloodwork back for zinc, as I previously had a low zinc RBC.

My RBC is finally in normal range. However, my serum zinc just squeaked by as normal, about 2 pts over the bottom range.

This was at 30mg zinc citrate daily. So I suppose I'll need to take a certain amount of zinc daily.

I was wondering if Optizinc perhaps would work a little better, and if their claims regarding not impacting copper absorption is true? And even if true, would I need to supplement any extra copper to balance things out, or would I be fine simply taking 30mg or so Optizinc daily by itself?

I've been taking a little extra copper to balance out the zinc I have been taking (citrate or picolinate), but ideally I'd prefer not to take extra copper at all.

[OneScrewLoose]

Most would recommend 1mg of copper per 15mg of zinc, taken at separate times. There are some concerns about copper being linked to alzheimer's though, so search for threads on that. I don't think 30mg of zinc will have too much effect on your copper, but if you don't supplement copper, you might want to get your copper levels checked sometime.

[nameless]

Thanks for the reply.

As for copper-zinc, that's why I was wondering specifically about Optizinc, as supposedly it doesn't impact copper absorption.

However, I am not sure if that's entirely true, or if true, perhaps one should still balance out zinc/copper regardless.

Testing for copper via blood tests isn't so accurate, so not sure that'd be much help... unless it came back super low or something.

Edited by nameless, 09 May 2011 - 04:14 PM.

[Lufega]

Well, if you want to top of your zinc status, right now it's not the time to worry about copper. You can probably leave it out for a while. If you're worried though, I used opti zinc from source naturals and it has a little copper in it. I've used different types of zinc, I find a stronger effect from optizinc and no nausea.

You have to wonder why zinc is low in the first place. It's not diet since you supplement. So it must be getting used up faster than you can replenish it. Zinc is used to make superoxide dismutase. Do you have some disease process or are exposed to high levels of oxidative stress ?

Edited by Lufega, 09 May 2011 - 04:54 PM.

[nameless]

You have to wonder why zinc is low in the first place. It's not diet since you supplement. So it must be getting used up faster than you can replenish it. Zinc is used to make superoxide dismutase. Do you have some disease process or are exposed to high levels of oxidative stress ?

I guess it could be disease related, I suppose, as I have some tick-related things I'm still being treated for.

The more likely culprit would be the ace inhibitor I take though.

I was considering the L-optizinc from Now or Jarrow's Zinc Balance (tried that in the past). Now's has a tiny bit of copper, while Jarrow's is more balanced, but lower dose. Jarrow's uses copper gluconate, which, if I recall right, doesn't absorb so great. I could always add extra copper, but again, was wondering if it's even needed with that form.

Edited by nameless, 09 May 2011 - 05:43 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

From what I've heard, copper deficiencies are very rare, and too much copper is a bad thing... Very powerful pro-oxidant? I would look to copper from food sources if anything.

I also had a problem with optizinc... I'd been taking "KAL Tri-Zinc 50" (a citrate-Chelate-Picolinate combo) without problem for a while and decided to try the new optizinc. Got a very bad body odor within a few days!

In researching what went wrong, I found optizinc contained a small ocean of methionine (Zinc Monomethionine) and methionine in large quantities can cause problems for some.

It is my custom to tip a few beers in the evening and ethanol interferes with methionine synthase... I frequently have eggs for breakfast, and eggs are also very high in methionine. I also take SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine which I learned are "methionine sparing", which caused a methionine overload for me.

[A case of intermittent hypermethioninemia as the cause of disagreeable body odour].
[Article in Danish]
Påby P, Ekelund S, Bøgeskov-Jensen I.
Abstract
A physically and mentally healthy man aged 22 years was referred for biochemical investigation in a department for clinical biochemistry on account of disagreeable body odour. Ion-exchange chromatographic amino acid analysis revealed intermittent hypermethioninaemia. Dietary treatment with a methionine-poor diet solved the problem both subjectively and objectively. Amino-acidopathy should be borne in mind in cases of individuals with abnormal body odours.

PMID: 2781618 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I think the body odor was trimethylamine, but I'm still not sure... Nasty stuff whatever it was!

Methionine restriction is also being looked at as a good thing... Supposed to be the reason for longevity in calorie restricted diets.

We live and learn... From now on, I get my zinc the old fashioned way. Hold the methionine thank you!

[nameless]

I may be wrong, but optizinc contains a very small amount of methionine. I forget the exact percentage, but 30mg of optizinc has something like 60-100mg or so of methionine (I think). So basically it's a drop in the methionine ocean, so to speak, in regard to daily intake. I don't see it really having any affect one way or another regarding methionine restriction/life extension.

That said, if a person was taking like 150mg+ of optizinc, then maybe the methionine amounts would be higher than I'd like. But at 150mg+/daily of zinc, I think methionine would be the least of their worries.

I also thought Sam-E was high in methionine (it's S-Adenosyl methionine after-all). And if you didn't see the recent choline/heart disease thread, you may want to look it over. I also believe high doses of phosphatidylcholine can cause a fishy body odor, which may explain your odor problem.

And regarding copper problems, yes,it's rare. But not necessarily if you take zinc above RDA levels. Since Optizinc (in theory) shouldn't interfere with copper, supplementing with copper may not be necessary. Which, was my original question basically, as manufacturer claims aren't always 100% accurate.

[protoject]

I've been dosing about 23mg a day of zinc for a while [not consistently mind you, and sometimes ive taken half the dose and sometimes double]. Recently I got a 3mg chelated copper supplement, as well as iron peptides [i have low blood iron levels, at the bottom of the scale]. I have to say that taking all 3 together helps me feel better. Particularly though the copper seems to combat side effects from zinc while at the same time allowing me to boost my zinc levels. The copper itself I find to be energizing and anti-depressant believe it or not. However I have to take the zinc and if I don't take it and I do continue taking the copper it causes really bad mood swings. That's what I've seen so far in myself anyway. Not a scientific finding or anything.

Zinc makes me tired when I take it but also makes me feel more calm. Whereas copper is more energizing. However zinc makes my bones/ muscles hurt and makes me pee a lot. Copper takes away the painful effects of zinc to a degree while also giving me a bit of physical and mental vigilance. The zinc evens it out so that it doesn't become anxiety or moodiness.

[CurrentChris]

Did your BO smell like sulfur or onions? I had a sulfur odor in the summer but in the winter when I would sweat less it was pretty bad but not distinctly sulfur like. It might not have been as noticeable in the winter meaning I would only smell it if I got close to my underarm. My problem was low B12 which I believe is one nutrient needed to process methionine.

From what I've heard, copper deficiencies are very rare, and too much copper is a bad thing... Very powerful pro-oxidant? I would look to copper from food sources if anything.

I also had a problem with optizinc... I'd been taking "KAL Tri-Zinc 50" (a citrate-Chelate-Picolinate combo) without problem for a while and decided to try the new optizinc. Got a very bad body odor within a few days!

In researching what went wrong, I found optizinc contained a small ocean of methionine (Zinc Monomethionine) and methionine in large quantities can cause problems for some.

It is my custom to tip a few beers in the evening and ethanol interferes with methionine synthase... I frequently have eggs for breakfast, and eggs are also very high in methionine. I also take SAM-e and phosphatidylcholine which I learned are "methionine sparing", which caused a methionine overload for me.

[A case of intermittent hypermethioninemia as the cause of disagreeable body odour].
[Article in Danish]
Påby P, Ekelund S, Bøgeskov-Jensen I.
Abstract
A physically and mentally healthy man aged 22 years was referred for biochemical investigation in a department for clinical biochemistry on account of disagreeable body odour. Ion-exchange chromatographic amino acid analysis revealed intermittent hypermethioninaemia. Dietary treatment with a methionine-poor diet solved the problem both subjectively and objectively. Amino-acidopathy should be borne in mind in cases of individuals with abnormal body odours.

PMID: 2781618 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I think the body odor was trimethylamine, but I'm still not sure... Nasty stuff whatever it was!

Methionine restriction is also being looked at as a good thing... Supposed to be the reason for longevity in calorie restricted diets.

We live and learn... From now on, I get my zinc the old fashioned way. Hold the methionine thank you!

[hbar]

For zinc supplements, I'd recommend NOW. They make a zinc glycinate supplement from an Albion chelate, and it has 30mg per softgel. I take one every other day, though mostly for sexual and prostate health. I think I was low on testosterone, and saw a noticeable improvement in the nether regions after starting to supplement it. Probably the only supplement I've ever taken that's really made a noticeable difference in how I feel. But I only take it every other day because I'm trying to keep my average intake at 15mg so I don't throw my copper way out of whack.

Still, I'd much rather err on the side of too much zinc than too much copper. If you're taking a multi then you're probably getting at least some copper that way, though at 30mg zinc per day you might want to consider making sure you're getting at least 1mg a day from diet or supplements.