18 replies to this topic

[White Plastic Web]

Background in a nutshell: 35 y/o male in good health, regular exercise (resistance training six days a week), 1.5 gallons of water a day, excellent multi-vitamin (Animal Pak), very high-protein diet, solid sleep at night

Other supplements or nootropics currently using: piracetam, choline, l-phenylalanine, creatine, vinpocetine (on occasion), caffeine (on occasion)

I last did selegiline a couple years ago, and ordered it from the same research chem/peptide company that this current bottle came from. I do it in liquid form at a dose of 5mg per day.

The last time I used it, it gave me a marked increase in ambition, confidence, clarity of thought, attention span, and to a lesser extent, an energy increase. It was noticeable enough to not be placebo. It genuinely seemed to be the final piece (after diet and exercise) that helped me be who I felt like I could be. I felt "balanced" (for lack of a better term), and was accomplishing the things I needed to get done. Selegiline was that final push that snapped everything else into place, it felt.

This time? I am now on day four at the same 5mg per day and I feel notably tired with absolutely zero of the prior positive effects I encountered. I am wondering what the deal is. If anything, I am in far better health than the last time I used selegiline for a while. So no fundamental pieces are missing or worse. But I feel almost a low blood sugar type feeling since starting it this latest time. I feel tired and indifferent. I'm not depressed at all, but definitely apathetic. This is so odd. I was so excited to start another regimen of this, given how well it worked for me a few years ago.

Any thoughts on what the deal might be? Thank you in advance for any input, suggestions, etc.

Edit: And if I left out any details you feel you may need before making any kind of estimate of what the issue might be, feel free to ask for them.

Edited by White Plastic Web, 21 May 2011 - 09:13 PM.

[manic_racetam]

You may want to cut out the L-phenylalanine. I know a lot of people take them together but it isn't something I'd personally do. Here's a link http://www.umm.edu/a...nine-000318.htm which states:

Selegiline -- L-phenylalanine and the selective MAO inhibitor selegiline (Eldepryl, Deprenyl) may strengthen the antidepressant effects of phenylalanine. They should not be taken together.

[golden1]

This time? I am now on day four at the same 5mg per day and I feel notably tired with absolutely zero of the prior positive effects I encountered. I am wondering what the deal is. If anything, I am in far better health than the last time I used selegiline for a while.

Same thing happened to me the second time I tried it after a long break. I believe it has a lot to do with your better health. I think the more healthy (your
dopamine system is in particular), the more sensitive they are to more dopamine; making you pretty much only able to sleep. Of course if you keep taking it possibly the sleepy effects will go away as your dopamine receptors down regulate, but I never felt like it was worth it.. haha

[unregistered_user]

PM me about the company you ordered from... it's probably the same one I used and I'd be happy to share my experience with you. Good luck and be careful!

[The Human Meteorite]

You probably have ADD and thus dopamine-boosting drugs have a relaxing effect.

[unregistered_user]

I too ordered my first bottle of Selegiline from a chem/peptide research company and wasn't impressed with the effects. I shelved the bottle and didn't touch it for months. Then, on a whim I ordered a bottle of Dep Pro from IAS for about $80. I haven't had any breakthroughs or even as positive a reaction as you mentioned above but it isn't making me tired the same way it did before. My libido is increased and in general I'm feeling pretty good.

I think you should back your dosage down a little. Now that I think of it, I took about 5mg the other day and it put me right to sleep. I generally take about 2-3mg per day in liquid form sublingually and this seems to work pretty well (but I'm really early on in my trial).

The Dep Pro I got from IAS tastes almost the same as the stuff I got from the research company but the color and consistency is different. The stuff I got from the research company (IIRC) was bluish green and a little thicker than liquid. The Dep Pro is more of a liquid and I think it's clear.

I've decided not to take any chances on supplements anymore just to save a buck. The research company's version of Selegiline was $50-$60 and while the Dep Pro was $80, there is a certain peace of mind knowing it's more "medical grade" and less "experimental" than the other stuff. This could be completely a matter of perception but I can't be sure.

[MrHappy]

Deprenyl also breaks down to methamphetamine. Constant dosing will lead to lethargy and sheep-like behaviour. Have a look at ADD studies and dexamphetamine.

[e Volution]

I think the important thing here is this is only day 4. Certainly stick with it for a couple weeks to see if the tiredness subsides.

[unregistered_user]

Has your lassitude improved any? I still get bouts of tiredness from deprenyl but I've only been taking it a couple of weeks now.

[Boolean]

aaahhh the animal pak. One thing I didn't like about it is that you have to choke down the entire pack in one sitting. Each pill is a different type of vitamin and most of them are HUGE. I would think you'd get better absorption from taking a very well put together multi at 4 times during the day. Just my two cents.

Anyway, to speak of Selegiline, and to keep the thread intact: I like the sound of how it worked for you originally. Keep in mind these RC's get their supplies from different places at different times. It could very well be that their original stuff was spot on in dosing, and now its all shot to hell is a VERY real possibility. I used to get my SERMs from a particular RC until I found out their IGF-1 peptides started giving people abcesses. The RC biz is shady. Plain and simple. You're running risks purchasing from them.

[unregistered_user]

Yea, Animal Pak is good but I think it's overpriced. What about Opti Men's Multivitamin? Priced reasonably and you can get away with taking 2 instead of 3 per day.

[bugasman]

Im using selegiline since 04 september. In the first week I used 2.5mg daily, oral doses. In the first 5 days I felt tired and a little irritation sometimes in the day, but felt much more calm, in Zen state after the irritation was over. I almost quited this drug, but I read some comments about this sleepness side effect and decided to stick with selegiline. On the 6day I noticed less sleepness and irritability. In the second week I decided to use 1.25mg sublingual. I really don't know if it is just a coincidence, but sublingual seens to be more effective, Im not suffering any more side effect. So I have two hypothesis, the body needs time to adjust with selegiline, or sublingual dose have less side effects. Maybe both of those.

Just to add... Im 25 years old, never used nootropics in the past, except for Ritalin (the great sucker, creativity and reasoning destroyer, the worst shit in the world, except for the cocaine like euphoria, but the crash is BIG), Marijuana (Good for spiritual introspection, but bad for my academics goals if used daily...) coffee (good, but my mood gets some fluctuations on it) and Nicotine Gum (Big and fast tolerance and not good for health).

Im only using selegiline, Jumex brand. No complements, no ritalin, no caffeine, no coffee, no PEA, no tyrosine, no yoga, no radioactive energy, no orgone energy, no special foods, no pharaonic stacks, zero racetans, ONLY SELEGILINE and normal diet Im using. The effects:
- Mood estability. Anxiolitic effect, better than benzodiazepines. Im more sociable and positive.
- More focus and concentration.
- I can study now. Procrastination is 60% defeated (I still need the will power and fake desire to study, but is much more easy now.) More motivation.
- Definitive nootropic effect. My memory and reasoning is better.
- My sexual urges are more controlable. I see that my libido is higher, but I have more control over it. Example, everyday I see hot babes in my school. When I interact, talk or see those girls, I'm much more in sexual mood. The girls are more sexy and hot now. But in my daily activities I don't get obsessed thinking in sex, sex, sex... This is good, I can focus in the work now. But my work is motivated by sex. I know if I suceed in my goal I will have quality pussies in the future.

Now, with my increased will power, I will return to this topic, and create a one month selegiline retrospect, only in 4 october. Sorry, I will not respond or return to this topic before October 4. I dont want to procrastine over the computer. I lost many years doing that. I need time to study and time to make a conclusion about this drug. I hope that the selegiline effects gets better. Some says that the good effects begin in the sixth week. Im in my second week...

sorry for my english mistakes, not my primary tongue.

Edited by bugasman, 15 September 2011 - 01:00 AM.

[Boolean]

But my work is motivated by sex. I know if I suceed in my goal I will have quality pussies in the future.

LOLOLOL dude that's hilarious... and soooo so true. hahaha

I gotta say that its one of my prime motivators in life. Sad. We are truly just animals stuck in a civilized world.

[e Volution]

But in my daily activities I don't get obsessed thinking in sex, sex, sex... This is good, I can focus in the work now. But my work is motivated by sex. I know if I suceed in my goal I will have quality pussies in the future.

LOLOLOL dude that's hilarious... and soooo so true. hahaha

I gotta say that its one of my prime motivators in life. Sad. We are truly just animals stuck in a civilized world.

honest ftw
"In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women." -Tony Montana

[jadamgo]

According to the EMSAM prescribing information, selegiline has affinity for the alpha-2 receptors. I've noticed a side effect of sublingual selegiline, only in single doses of 5+mg, where it causes tiredness for a few hours. This leads me to suspect its action at the a2 receptors is antagonistic; the ability to reverse this side effect with yohimbine (an alpha-2 antagonist) supports this claim.

I know of 3 strategies for combating this effect. (For any readers taking EMSAM, you can only use the 3rd option.)
1. Splitting your intake into 3 doses (a morning, afternoon, and nighttime dose) will maintain a more consistent level of selegiline in your system. A week after starting this strategy, you probably won't be tired when taking selegiline anymore. It seems that the a2 receptor desensitizes rather quickly IFF you maintain a consistent level of selegiline in your system. If you're taking it sublingually, you'll also maintain a more consistent level of MAO-A inhibition, which is reversible with selegiline.

2. Take your entire dose at night.

3. Augment with yohimbine. I use 12.5 mg of yohimbine taken every 3-6 hours to enhance alertness and antidepressant effects. I've found few side effects with doubling the dose to 25 mg -- mild jitteriness, facial flushing (vasodilators trigger my rosacea), and increases in spontaneous erections. If you're concerned about increases of blood pressure, you could start as low as 5mg yohimbine per dose. Be warned -- suddenly stopping yohimbine after a few days of use with selegiline can cause rebound fatigue, as the a2 receptors will have sensitized.

*Note: IFF means "if and only if"

[unregistered_user]

25mg? Wow....

I've never gone beyond 10mg of course I'm using drops, not the patch. So far selegiline doesn't seem to be doing me any favors intellectually and it's been 2 weeks at, on average, 4mg per day.

[Boolean]

I may give the yohimbine a try. I've used that during cutting cycles before as it binds to the beta-2 receptor, inducing lipolysis and a thermogenic activity. Did not know it had action on alpha-2.

I'll check it out! Word to yo momma boyeeeeee

[Delta Gamma]

Heads up most of the PFC's catecholamine catabolism is due to COMT not MAOB, selegiline isn't really going to give any sort of nootropic effect unless you've got Parkinson's or hardcore depression (even then its dubious).

http://onlinelibrary...5027.x/abstract
http://onlinelibrary...4978.x/abstract

You might just be screwing with your tonic/phasic DA and NE release with selegiline.

[Delta Gamma]

Deprenyl also breaks down to methamphetamine. Constant dosing will lead to lethargy and sheep-like behaviour. Have a look at ADD studies and dexamphetamine.

L-(meth)amphetamine, and its only at high doses that the metabolites can cause that not the ~2-5mg produced from his doses.