20 replies to this topic

[thefirstimmortal]

America is now a land where crime is a national scandal, schools turn out illiterates, and taxes drive both parents into the job market. The “American dream” has become a mirage for too many of us. And to make matters worse, government has grown too large and too bold. It routinely tramples on our property and our liberties:

[thefirstimmortal]

The federal government was founded by men who warned “Don’t tread on me.” But that government now spies into your bank account, threatens to destroy you to collect its taxes, and tries to herd you into a health-care collective-as though you were a Soviet citizen.

Federal, state, and local governments together take 47% of your earnings through direct and hidden taxes-cutting your standard of living to a fraction of what it could be.

The government created to enable us to pursue happiness in peace now runs up the price of everything you buy through the regulations and mandates it lays on companies.

The government set up to protect private property now confiscates it in the name of fighting drugs or preserving the environment.

The courts that once defended your privacy and liberties now ratify any intrusion that can be shown to be in the government’s interest.

This is a far cry from what the founding fathers had in mind, a government instituted among men to secure the blessings of life, liberty, and property.

[thefirstimmortal]

No plague descended upon America to halt progress and plunge us into a world of violent crime, poor education, and big government.

So how did it happen? What transformed America from the land of the free into the land of high taxes, from the land of prosperity into the land of debt and bankruptcy, from the land of opportunity to the land of quotas and lawsuits, from the land of free enterprise to the land of regulations, mandates, and government inspectors?

The decline of America has been caused by politicians and reformers who believe that you aren’t competent to run your own life, that they know better how to spend the money you’ve earned, that they understand which products you should be allowed to buy and what wages and job benefits are suitable for you.

[thefirstimmortal]

To run your life for you, politicians have created a government that fails at everything it undertakes, but wants to undertake everything:

The government can’t deliver the mail on time, but wants to take your life in its hands by controlling your health care.
The government can’t keep the peace in Washington, D.C., but it sends troops on “peacekeeping missions” to Somalia and Haiti, to save those countries from being run by the wrong thugs.
Government schools don’t have the money and time to teach your children how to read well, yet they always find the resources to teach their favorite social theories, no matter how distressing they are to parents.

Wherever we look, government fails at what we want, and succeeds only in finding new ways to interfere with our lives.

[thefirstimmortal]

Once upon a time government budgets were balanced, our money was sound, the cities were safe, and the taxes of federal, state, and local governments combined took less than 10% of our income.

If I had a graph I could show you how the cost of government has grown. But no graph could show how government has intruded deeper and deeper into our lives, making decisions we used to make for ourselves. Government decides which products we’re allowed to buy, sets wage floors that force unemployment on teenagers, prevents most small businesses from raising capital, and stops the critically ill from using life-saving medicines while bureaucrats pretend to protect us.

Where did it all go wrong? Wasn’t government supposed to be our servant, rather than our master?

[thefirstimmortal]

To understand how government went so wrong, we must first identify exactly what government is and how it operates.

We need to know why government programs never seem to produce the results that were promised, why laws to make America “color blind” lead to racial quotas, why programs to improve the economy end in recession and inflation, and why plans to help the poor enlarge their numbers.

[thefirstimmortal]

We can solve these problems.
Crime, education, and welfare went from minor problems in the l950s to major scandals in the l990s, and we can end the scandals.
We can fix Social Security once and for all, to end its periodic crises, and to guarantee that you get everything you pay for.
We can balance the federal budget immediately and permanently, without raising taxes.
We can keep government from running up the prices of the things you buy and reducing the wages you earn.
We can make America much safer from foreign attack with a much smaller military budget.
We can cut taxes to a fraction of where they are now.

...and much more.

Today’s social and political problems aren’t mysterious punishments inflicted by angry gods. They are man-made, and they can be fixed. If we understand what caused them, we can cure them. And we can make sure they don’t recur.

[bobdrake12]

We can solve these problems.
Crime, education, and welfare went from minor problems in the l950s to major scandals in the l990s, and we can end the scandals.
We can fix Social Security once and for all, to end its periodic crises, and to guarantee that you get everything you pay for.
We can balance the federal budget immediately and permanently, without raising taxes.
We can keep government from running up the prices of the things you buy and reducing the wages you earn.
We can make America much safer from foreign attack with a much smaller military budget.
We can cut taxes to a fraction of where they are now.

The First Immortal,

Whenever there is loss to one group, sometimes there is a gain to another group.

What group might be gaining under this current system?

bob

[thefirstimmortal]

Whenever there is loss to one group, sometimes there is a gain to another group.

What group might be gaining under this current system?

I'm unsure if you mean to ask about winners and losers after changes, or who wins and loses under the current system?

[bobdrake12]

The government can’t deliver the mail on time, but wants to take your life in its hands by controlling your health care.

The First Immortal,

Last year the postal service misplaced my Tax Preparation documents to the tax accountant. We needed to redo everything and resubmit.

About two weeks later the postal service finally delivered the original Tax Preparation documents to the tax accountant. Had we waited for the original paperwork, we would have missed the deadline.

bob

[bobdrake12]

I'm unsure if you mean to ask about winners and losers after changes, or who wins and loses under the current system?

The First Immortal,

Those who are marketing bigger government to the general public (such as exchanging security for personal freedom) and pressing Congress for this expansion of central control are doing it for a purpose.

The questions are:

o Who are they?

o What will they gain?

bob

[thefirstimmortal]

Those who are marketing bigger government to the general public (such as exchanging security for personal freedom) and pressing Congress for this expansion of central control are doing it for a purpose.

The questions are:

o  Who are they?

o  What will they gain?

bob

I have to borrow your line, "follow the money". All the businesses that need government to keep them from competing, and the one's that will profit from bigger government. [ph34r]

[bobdrake12]

All the businesses that need government to keep them from competing, and the one's that will profit from bigger government.

http://images.google...mages/money.jpg

Can politicians be bought and paid for?


The First Immortal,

By this do you include the huge pharmaceutical, chemical and oil conglomerates which "donate" large sums of money to policians while using the "revolving door" for bureaucrats?

bob

[thefirstimmortal]

Can politicians be bought and paid for?

Yes

By this do you include the huge pharmaceutical, chemical and oil conglomerates which "donate" large sums of money to policians while using the "revolving door" for bureaucrats?

Yes

[bobdrake12]

No plague descended upon America to halt progress and plunge us into a world of violent crime, poor education, and big government.

So how did it happen? What transformed America from the land of the free into the land of high taxes, from the land of prosperity into the land of debt and bankruptcy, from the land of opportunity to the land of quotas and lawsuits, from the land of free enterprise to the land of regulations, mandates, and government inspectors?

The decline of America has been caused by politicians and reformers who believe that you aren’t competent to run your own life, that they know better how to spend the money you’ve earned, that they understand which products you should be allowed to buy and what wages and job benefits are suitable for you.

The First Immortal,

Has anyone yet to have successfully defended the current Social Security Ponzi Scheme on this Forum?

http://images.google...s/rolltext3.gif

Has anyone here even tried to defend this system on this Forum once they understand how this Ponzi Scheme actually works?

bob


http://www.taxgate.c...onzi_scheme.htm






Social Security is the ultimate "Ponzi Pyramid Scheme".


There are no funds whatsoever in the social security "trust fund". Congress has already borrowed it all and loaned it to Mexico, donated it to various foreign countries, bailed out the S&L’s, etc. Furthermore, Social Security is not a contract. It is a unilateral political promise that Congress can renege on at any time. A beneficiary has no standing against his benefactor. Social security payments are made at the discretion of the legislature and could be terminated tomorrow morning by a roll call vote.

When social security was first introduced in 1935, there were approximately 50 workers paying in to the bottom of the pyramid for each worker retiring (emerging) from the top. Today, there are approximately 3. The only way Congress can ever make good on its promise to pay tomorrow’s retirees is to cut back on benefits through "means testing" and other devices and to raise taxes, or BOTH. If a group of private businesspersons did what Congress has done, they’d all be in jail alongside convicted junk bond traders.

In case you ever find yourself wondering "What happened to all the money in my account ", please understand that THERE IS NO ACCOUNT and THERE NEVER WAS. The "virtual" account keyed to the number applied for on your behalf is simply a bookkeeping entry of how much you’re targeted to receive, assuming, of course, that there’s actually any money left. There is no dedicated, protected "trust fund". Congress cracks the piggy bank and steals your retirement dollars and spends them faster than they come in. That’s why there’s an annual deficit.

No private businessperson could possibly operate like this (but, then again, they can’t raise their own "debt limit" and place an order to have some more money printed any time they need it, either)

IT WAS ALL SPENT THE DAY IT ARRIVED AT THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION !

HOW SECURE DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL ?

Congress has used your retirement money to fund its deficit spending and wasteful boondoggles. They gave it to the Emir of Kuwait (to fight Saddam), they gave it to Saddam Hussein (to fight Iran), they gave it to Iran (to support the Shah), they gave it to CHINA (most favored nation trade status) to show how much the America People REALLY OBJECT to and HATE COMMUNISM. They gave it to everyone in the world, except you, the rightful owner !!!

[thefirstimmortal]

Has anyone yet to have successfully defended the current Social Security Ponzi Scheme on this Forum?

No, and not one person has listed a their favorite government program for me to disect.
... and that's good, cause I want to spend more time with nano-tech and investment. lol

Although I do miss sparring with Mangala.

[bobdrake12]

No, and not one person has listed a their favorite government program for me to disect.

Although I do miss sparring....

The First Immortal,

Not even the wonderful Fluoride that the ADA promotes resulting in a vast majority of our local goverments having placed Fluoride in our drinking water?

http://images.google...f/paffen-10.gif http://images.google...rontpage_02.JPG

The First Immortal, are you pro tooth decay of this nation's poor? (Note: It doesn't take much to sell a government program. Problem > Reaction > Solution.... On the other hand, once a government program is in place, it seldom is removed because the general public thinks the problem is resolved such as Social Security.)



I sense the sparring is unnecessary. I believe it is our objective to learn and teaching is part of that learning process.

On the contrary, I believe it is a matter of providing information to a misinformed general public.






_______________________________________________________________________


A case in point is that many in the general public usually don't even understand that the USA now has over a $6 trillion dollar national debt.

http://www.publicdeb...opdpenny.htm

The Debt To the Penny

Current Amount

01/02/2003 $6,389,356,141,156.55

_______________________________________________________________________

Does the general public know that this National Debt has been growing?

http://www.brillig.c..._clock/faq.html



_______________________________________________________________________

Thus, the interest on the National Debt also is growing?



_______________________________________________________________________

That currently 14% of the US government's expenditures are just in interest payments?



_______________________________________________________________________

Eventually, the debt needs to be paid off (or at least reduced) by either raising taxes, reducing services or both.


bob

[thefirstimmortal]

Not even the wonderful Fluoride that the ADA promotes resulting in a vast majority of our local goverments having placed Fluoride in our drinking water?

I was just about to get my info and lay it on you [ph34r] , good thing I read the rest of the post [ggg]

I sense the sparring is unnecessary.  I believe it is our objective to learn and teaching is part of that learning process.

I wish I were that laid back. I think it's clear that I do not have the gentle touch that you have, nor do I have BJ's wonderful sense of diplomacy. I am clearly an advocate, with a sometimes admittedly hard edge. That is not always a great quality for this group in general, however, someday that may prove useful.

Can't you just see it now, some legal action relating to cryonics or something. Or some other life and death issue.

William Constitution O'Rights, BJ Klein, Lazarus Long, and Bob Drake
Defendants

Vs.

United States of America.

[Lazarus Long]

The can charge me but they got catch me first to try me.Anyway its our patience getting tried.

[ph34r] [ph34r] [ph34r] [ph34r]

We still need eight more for a dirty dozen. [huh]

[bobdrake12]

We still need eight more for a dirty dozen.

Lazarus Long,

If truth is on your side, truth eventually wins. [B)]

Said another way: Truth and you make a majority! [!]

bob

[bobdrake12]

I am clearly an advocate, with a sometimes admittedly hard edge.

The First Immortal,

That is great! [!]

The point is to be proactive rather than reactive. [B)]

Case in point: On a few occassions I have made massive mailing distributions to PACs, media and members of Congress over specific issues. One such mailing included over 800 letters and packets. Nearly all responded, and the specific issue I was working towards won (e.g. The bill was defeated). lol

What I am speaking of is one person can make the difference in this country.

I have found that my Representatives have been responsive and sometimes very responsive on issues I brought forth.

Lately, I have been in a study phase and have not been active like I once was.

My recommendation is not to wait for two, three or four people to join you; but get the facts and be able to explain them on a specific issue in a succinct manner. You would be surprised that the system does work.

http://images.google...1/09/condit.jpg
The general public has the responsibility of voting in an informed manner.

What is wrong with the government is not the government itself but the misinformed citizens as well as the specific corrupt politicians who are voted into office (Note: Not all people in government are corrupt. Unfoturnately, many of the honest ones leave office after their second term.). We are speaking of specific people voted into office; some are good, and some are not so good. It is the general public that votes the specific bought and paid for politicians back into office that is the basis for the problem. It is the general public that dosen't question what the dominant media says. In fact, it is the general citizens who want to blindly believe what they are told especially if what they are being told is what they want to hear. It is difficult to have a solid democracy without well informed citizens who do not question. Let's call it a lack of awareness with the general public. [ph34r]

bob