34 replies to this topic

[Justchill]

Hi guys,

I wanted to ask you about your experiences with retinoids / retin(o)-A skin creams?

How do use it, do you use another cream with it, how frequently do you use it etc.

I've bought the retino-A 0.025% cream and have been using it for 1 - 2 weeks. I have no irritation, no redness, no itch, but I do see some white skinflakes on my skin!
Last friday I went to the Spa (sauna) and it was very pronounced: I had a beard of skinflakes

So, what are your advices/tips on using this product for skincare?

ciao!

[mustardseed41]

http://www.skinacea....t-part-one.html

[Luminosity]

I'm only familiar with Retin A which is prescription in the United States. I used a gel form. I had to really avoid the sun when I was on it. It did help me but if you are using it for aging, and you can't keep from traumatizing your skin with sunburns or other things, then I would give it up. Green tea applied to the skin is beneficial and doesn't make you more vulnerable to the sun or other things. It can even help calm your skin now, just let it cool to room temperature. Fresh aloe vera gel could also help right now.

[z4l]

Jojoba oil works great for flaky skin and it doesn't cause acne.

[Justchill]

I think I am going to quit it.. maybe try it during the winter when there isn't any sun..

[mustardseed41]

I think I am going to quit it.. maybe try it during the winter when there isn't any sun..

Just be smart about it and continue. UV rays don't rest during the winter. Plus it's helping to repair the daily damage that get's thru your sunscreen, topicals, etc. Assuming your using a quality sunscreen such as 18% + zinc oxide.

[TheFountain]

<br />I think I am going to quit it.. maybe try it during the winter when there isn't any sun..<br />

The cold wind in the winter will lead to red, chapped skin while using retin-a, if you are the sensitive skin type. What worked best for me is quiting retinoids and doing bi-weekly glycolic acid peels at 30% and using emu oil as a moisturizer. There is only a day or two down time with glycolic acid peels, you aren't always havng to maintain a strict regimen besides basic sun protection. Not so with retin-a which requires extreme sun protection.

[Justchill]

Also, I want a tan.. always.. and I don't want to wear sun-protection-creme every day... I'll stick to a cleanser + creme during nights.

[happy lemon]

Also, I want a tan.. always.. and I don't want to wear sun-protection-creme every day... I'll stick to a cleanser + creme during nights.

No matter if you use Retin-A or not, you still have to put on sunscreen everyday.

I took me 18 months to see the benefits of Retin-A: even skin tone & firmer cheek but it makes my skin dry.

[Justchill]

What? 18 months? really?

[mustardseed41]

What? 18 months? really?

Most see results in around 6 months. If you love to tan, act like you never even heard of Tretinoin. Ask any Derm about this.

[TheFountain]

<br />Also, I want a tan.. always..

Then forget about anti-aging anything. Or you could try topical niacinamide along with emu oil and see what that does despite the constant UV bombardment.

[Justchill]

Yes, but could going once every 2 weeks to the solar center (that is 16 minutes / 2 weeks) do much harm?

I read everywhere that you should be very carefull with the sun when using retinoids and I want to follow that advice.

[TheFountain]

<br />Yes, but could going once every 2 weeks to the solar center (that is 16 minutes / 2 weeks) do much harm?<br /><br />I read everywhere that you should be very carefull with the sun when using retinoids and I want to follow that advice.<br />

I am not sure but I do know that those UV lamps are worse for you than natural sunlight. And I also know that to maintain a constant tan you will need more time than that. have you considered, aside from your minimal time under a UV lamp, taking carotenoids like astaxanthan and lutein to induce a color enhancement to your skin? I have done this before and it does work to some degree, but to not be too red or too yellow you may wish to combine them. Eat some carrots too.

[JLL]

What? 18 months? really?

Most see results in around 6 months. If you love to tan, act like you never even heard of Tretinoin. Ask any Derm about this.

I bet most derms don't know what they're talking about. Retinoids *protect* from sun damage.

[happy lemon]

What? 18 months? really?

Yes!

Though it took me 18 months to see the results, I am happy with the result!

Your mileage may vary!

[mustardseed41]

What? 18 months? really?

Most see results in around 6 months. If you love to tan, act like you never even heard of Tretinoin. Ask any Derm about this.

I bet most derms don't know what they're talking about. Retinoids *protect* from sun damage.

Umm I suggest further study. Without sunscreen usage, they age the skin. This is common knowledge.

Edited by mustardseed41, 12 July 2011 - 08:02 PM.

[niner]

Also, I want a tan.. always.. and I don't want to wear sun-protection-creme every day...

So did she...
 nice-tan.jpg   96.87KB   38 downloads

[Luminosity]

I used Retin A for most of a decade. It causes a greater risk of sun damage. You have to be careful not to burn because it will make you more sensitive to the sun. If you stay out of the sun, it can help repair old sun damage, but it is definitely NOT a sunscreen. I was one of the first people to use Retin A when it came out in the 1970's.

Tanning will eventually cause aging and other problems. It would be better to have some kind of spray on tan or something like that. If you put green tea on your skin, it may give you a glow and won't cause negative side effects. Maybe you can get a little sun late or early in the day once in a while but tanning or going into a tanning booth isn't good.

[Justchill]

I don't like using a tan spray or creme. That get's on your clothes and that's filthy. Here in Belgium we call that "bruinen zonder zon" or "tan without sun".

Isn't there a supplement that you can take for a tan lol?

@Niner: that picture is fake I think, no?

[TheFountain]

Isn't there a supplement that you can take for a tan lol?

Yes, carotenoids, as stated in my last reply to you.

[Justchill]

<br />Yes, but could going once every 2 weeks to the solar center (that is 16 minutes / 2 weeks) do much harm?<br /><br />I read everywhere that you should be very carefull with the sun when using retinoids and I want to follow that advice.<br />

I am not sure but I do know that those UV lamps are worse for you than natural sunlight. And I also know that to maintain a constant tan you will need more time than that. have you considered, aside from your minimal time under a UV lamp, taking carotenoids like astaxanthan and lutein to induce a color enhancement to your skin? I have done this before and it does work to some degree, but to not be too red or too yellow you may wish to combine them. Eat some carrots too.

I don't think the carotenoids are healthy:

Tanning Pills
Illegal for sale in the U.S., but still readily available for sale over the Internet, tanning pills work on the premise of ingesting pigment-altering chemicals. There are two types of tanning pills. The first group does not rely on UV exposure to work, while the second group relies on this exposure to assist the body's production of melanin.

The sunless type of tanning pill relies on a build-up of carotenoids, the pigment that makes carrots orange, in the skin to create a color change. This is not a “tan” in the true sense, as it does not alter the body’s melanin level, and therefore does not offer any form of sun protection. The color change only lasts as long as the pills continue to be taken.

Although the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved carotenoids for use as a food coloring, it has not approved them for use in tanning pills, as the amount of carotenoid that must be ingested to create the dyeing effect necessary to simulate a tan has been deemed unsafe. Tanning pills containing canthaxanthin, the best-known form of carotenoids, have been associated with health problems, including an eye disorder called canthaxanthin retinopathy, which is the formation of yellow deposits on the eye's retina. Canthaxanthin has also been reported to cause liver damage, and a severe itching condition called urticaria, according to the AAD.

The second group of tanning pills has the active ingredient tyrosine which synthesises the production of melanin during and after exposure to UV light. The cells in the skin’s epidermis are enveloped by the pigment producing a tan. This tan is "real" and does offer some protection against further UV exposure. However, the fact that you need to expose yourself to the sun’s damaging UV rays to make this product work again brings the user at risk of sun damage and skin cancer. Tyrosine can also produce side-effects including, nausea, headaches and vomiting.

from: http://www.aphrodite...ng_safely.shtml

[TheFountain]

<br />Yes, but could going once every 2 weeks to the solar center (that is 16 minutes / 2 weeks) do much harm?<br /><br />I read everywhere that you should be very carefull with the sun when using retinoids and I want to follow that advice.<br />

I am not sure but I do know that those UV lamps are worse for you than natural sunlight. And I also know that to maintain a constant tan you will need more time than that. have you considered, aside from your minimal time under a UV lamp, taking carotenoids like astaxanthan and lutein to induce a color enhancement to your skin? I have done this before and it does work to some degree, but to not be too red or too yellow you may wish to combine them. Eat some carrots too.

I don't think the carotenoids are healthy:

Tanning Pills
Illegal for sale in the U.S., but still readily available for sale over the Internet, tanning pills work on the premise of ingesting pigment-altering chemicals. There are two types of tanning pills. The first group does not rely on UV exposure to work, while the second group relies on this exposure to assist the body's production of melanin.

The sunless type of tanning pill relies on a build-up of carotenoids, the pigment that makes carrots orange, in the skin to create a color change. This is not a "tan" in the true sense, as it does not alter the body's melanin level, and therefore does not offer any form of sun protection. The color change only lasts as long as the pills continue to be taken.

Although the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved carotenoids for use as a food coloring, it has not approved them for use in tanning pills, as the amount of carotenoid that must be ingested to create the dyeing effect necessary to simulate a tan has been deemed unsafe. Tanning pills containing canthaxanthin, the best-known form of carotenoids, have been associated with health problems, including an eye disorder called canthaxanthin retinopathy, which is the formation of yellow deposits on the eye's retina. Canthaxanthin has also been reported to cause liver damage, and a severe itching condition called urticaria, according to the AAD.

The second group of tanning pills has the active ingredient tyrosine which synthesises the production of melanin during and after exposure to UV light. The cells in the skin's epidermis are enveloped by the pigment producing a tan. This tan is "real" and does offer some protection against further UV exposure. However, the fact that you need to expose yourself to the sun's damaging UV rays to make this product work again brings the user at risk of sun damage and skin cancer. Tyrosine can also produce side-effects including, nausea, headaches and vomiting.

from: http://www.aphrodite...ng_safely.shtml

I've had a noticeable coloring effect on moderate doses of astaxanthan and lutein, but I am also fair skinned. Everything is a trade off. Consider all the potential hazards of bathing beneath a sun lamp. Here are some positive studies citing the use of carotenoids for other health-related concerns.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21549829

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21734060

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21650083

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21556169

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21697302

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21658930

[TheFountain]

^^^ Some of those are animal and some are human studies.

[Ben]

I don't like using a tan spray or creme. That get's on your clothes and that's filthy. Here in Belgium we call that "bruinen zonder zon" or "tan without sun".

Isn't there a supplement that you can take for a tan lol?

@Niner: that picture is fake I think, no?

"MagicTan," or something like that, is a good idea. It's basically a system that uses a light shone from above that triggers a reaction in a film of DHA on the body and makes it appear as if the skin darkened from the sun--an overhead light source. DHA is clear and can be washed off once it has caused the skin to darken.

There are drawbacks however: I read a study that showed (I think this was the right figure) a four fold reduction in the skin's natural ability to protect itself from the sun 24-48 hours after the treatment. I think it returned to baseline afterwards slowly but surely. Also, the reaction is oxidising and, additionally, peeling or applying retin-a or using something that increases the skin cell turnover rate (washing included) will reduce the tan's duration.

TheFountain's advice in re. carotenoids is pretty sound. I regularly eat spinach, kale and tomato paste and take Astaxanthin, and the result is pretty good. I'm also not yellow; I don't look exactly tanned mind, but still, I have a colour to my skin that I'm really happy with (and one that I know has a pleasing aesthetic

Edited by Ben, 13 July 2011 - 11:25 AM.

[Luminosity]

I think you are a boy, but maybe you can experiment with makeup, bronzers, or stuff like that. Be sure to check it in the sunlight to see if it looks natural. I keep mentioning green tea because it may bring a natural blush to your cheeks. Do you really want to look old and wrinkly?

[zambezzi]

Hi, guys any one was considering after using retin a problems with skin barrier?
I have been using retin over 5 years but I noticed that my skin is kind of dehydrated. According to this article i think I got my answer

Abstract

Retinoids (RA) have been used as therapeutic agents for numerous skin diseases, from psoriasis to acne and wrinkles. While RA is known to inhibit keratinocyte differentiation, the molecular effects of RA in epidermis have not been comprehensively defined. To identify the transcriptional targets of RA in primary human epidermal keratinocytes, we compared the transcriptional profiles of cells grown in the presence or absence of all-trans retinoic acid for 1, 4, 24, 48, and 72 h, using large DNA microarrays. As expected, RA suppresses the protein markers of cornification; however the genes responsible for biosynthesis of epidermal lipids, long-chain fatty acids, cholesterol, and sphingolipids, are also suppressed. Importantly, the pathways of RA synthesis, esterification and metabolism are activated by RA; therefore, RA regulates its own bioavailability. Unexpectedly, RA regulates many genes associated with the cell cycle and programmed cell death. This led us to reveal novel effects of RA on keratinocyte proliferation and apoptosis. The response to RA is very fast: 315 genes were regulated already after 1 h. More than one-third of RA-regulated genes function in signal transduction and regulation of transcription. Using in silico analysis, we identified a set of over-represented transcription factor binding sites in the RA-regulated genes. Many psoriasis-related genes are regulated by RA, some induced, others suppressed. These results comprehensively document the transcriptional changes caused by RA in keratinocytes, add new insights into the molecular mechanism influenced by RA in the epidermis and demonstrate the hypothesis-generating power of DNA microarray analysis. J. Cell. Physiol. 220: 427–439, 2009. © 2009 Wiley-Liss,

http://onlinelibrary....21784/abstract

[JLL]

What? 18 months? really?

Most see results in around 6 months. If you love to tan, act like you never even heard of Tretinoin. Ask any Derm about this.

I bet most derms don't know what they're talking about. Retinoids *protect* from sun damage.

Umm I suggest further study. Without sunscreen usage, they age the skin. This is common knowledge.

Common knowledge, huh... that's not what the studies on retinoids say. You can choose which you believe, I don't care.

[niner]

What? 18 months? really?

Most see results in around 6 months. If you love to tan, act like you never even heard of Tretinoin. Ask any Derm about this.

I bet most derms don't know what they're talking about. Retinoids *protect* from sun damage.

Umm I suggest further study. Without sunscreen usage, they age the skin. This is common knowledge.

Common knowledge, huh... that's not what the studies on retinoids say. You can choose which you believe, I don't care.

Retinoids both repair sun damage and make the skin at least temporarily more susceptible to it. You should absolutely use a sunscreen if you use retinoids. The same holds true for the various hydroxy acid treatments.

[niner]

Isn't there a supplement that you can take for a tan lol?

Yes, carotenoids, as stated in my last reply to you.

I think this is a bad idea. Oral non-food-sourced carotenoids are associated with an increased risk of various cancers. Remember the famous beta carotene/vitamin E anti-cancer trial that was stopped because people were getting MORE, rather than less lung cancer? The same result has been replicated with different carotenoids and different cancers; it seems to be a general property of carotenoids. I'd stick to food sources or low dose supplements, certainly not so much as to change the color of skin.