LONGECITY

I've had full blood work done, everything looks good, i feel good!

The only thing was my VitD was low, and because i work indoors for most of daylight hours i need to supplement, however when i take VitD i feel groggy and irritable/depressed. It doesnt make any sense at all!

I've tried taking 4x1000ui gels in the afternoon but i'd rather have low VitD than feel how it makes me feel.

Any ideas about why?

I've heard low magnesium could be the cause, but will supplementing magnesium mean i can take the VitD without the effects? I have supplemented magnesium extensively before and remember still getting the above effects from vitamin D.


Thoughts appreciated.

The half life of vit d is very long and it takes a couple of months or so to build up to a steady state level when supplementing. Do you feel bad soon after taking the vit d? If so, it might be some other ingredient in your supp. You might try switching brands and maybe take no more than 1000 iu per day with a meal which contains some fat.

Weird. Maybe you're allergic to something in the pills. Try a different brand, and instead of 4*1000iu, take a single 4000iu or more potent version. Because vitamin D has such a long half life, you don't need to take them every day. You can literally take them once a week. For me to hit the 25-OH-D3 blood level of 50 ng/ml that I shoot for, I need 2000iu/day. If I wanted to take it weekly, then I'd need 14000iu. If you can't use a supplement, you could always get some sun exposure on your chest and back. I try to keep the sun off my face and hands, since they get more photodamage than they need as it is. It doesn't take a tremendous amount of sun to get a reasonable D level, at least if you're Caucasian and you have enough UVB.

There are reports of career runners and outdoors men that have vitamin d at low levels (like 38ng/ml)and these blood tests were taken in sunny places, like California, Arizona, etc. So being outside a lot does not necessarily ensure high enough vitamin d levels.

I agree with Niner that it is probably something else in the pill that may be upseting. Are you taking the d3 form or d2 form of vitamin d? I've taken d2 before (before I knew d3 was the better form) and I think I remember feeling kinda "off" when I took it.
Also what is the D coming from? Lanolin, fish, etc. Maybe you are alergic to the source.

Just my 2cents for whatever its worth.

Cheers
Edited by triplecrown, 25 July 2011 - 03:59 AM.

This is the one i'm using.

http://www.blackmore...cts/vitamin-d3#

I never thought of that.. I never considered gel caps could be effecting me?

Even if I change brand aren't they all essentially sourced from the same thing? I just read triplecrown's post above that it can be sourced from lanolin, fish, e.t.c..


Might just burn a bit of money on a different brand and see if it makes a difference.

I never heard of this brand before. Probably because it's mainly in the Australian market.
I looked at the ingredients on the site you posted and saw where it contains sodium sulfite. I have never seen this in a vitamin d supplement before. Maybe this is the culprit.
Edited by triplecrown, 25 July 2011 - 07:52 AM.

That's a good idea about the source. I would try a different company and a different source. If you are using fish oil based, try lanolin. If lanolin, try fish oil based. Also, maybe start at a moderate dose, say 1000 iu per day and work up if needed. I've heard a rule-of-thumb, every 1000 iu per day will raise your blood levels around 10 (I forget the units). This is obviously very rough and would be influenced by sun exposure but it seems to give ball park results for me.

Perhaps you have an issue with nightshades? They contain calcitriol.

Edit: Fixed link.
Edited by niner, 25 July 2011 - 09:52 PM.

OP: It's probably unlikely you will able to manipulate your feelings by taking supplements in quite the way you're describing, or pinpoint why you don't feel mentally great through a blood panel. oToH I'm all for the idea of Orthomolecular medicine. Vitamin D would probably have little effect towards making people feel low for most people.

That said I like Vitamin D, it generally makes me feel good, although I found the dry form better than the oil caps. I don't think D2 or D3 makes a huge difference. I suspect like a lot of things though the body quickly gets used to it, and any feel good factor becomes normal.

I come from a culture (and a country) not known long periods of sun exposure, so I suppose I do believe it can make a difference in some people.

I've sworn off all oil based supplements... I was taking some older (but not expired!) vitamin E that had gone rancid. I was getting nausea and a foul odor in my nose, but didn't figure out what was going on for a couple of months.

Once I learned it was the old E, I did some research and found all kinds of reports of oil based supplements that were found to go rancid shortly after the bottle is opened. The manufacturers test unopened bottles for shelf life and create expiration dates based on these tests, but never test for oxidation of opened bottles.

I thought vitamin E was supposed to be an antioxidant, but the "Unique E" vitamin E company states that although vitamin E is an antioxidant in the body, it can not prevent oxidation of the soy or other oils used in the supplement itself.

Fish oils, Krill, vitamins A, D, & E, and even lecithin have all been found to go rancid very soon after exposure to the oxygen in room air after a new bottle is opened.

I'm taking "Dry E" and de-oiled lecithin now and feeling much better! Please look into this further.

I have been struggling with this issue for quite a while now... I just can't tolerate vitamin D.

Here are some links you might want to check out:
http://forums.phoeni...ase-in-Symptoms
http://forums.phoeni...fatigue-for-you
http://forums.phoeni...-or-Problematic
http://www.longecity...strong-fatigue/

I put all oil based supps in the fridge as soon as I get them home, even for unopened storage. I have thought about keeping oil based gel cap supps such as fish oil in the freezer. Can anyone see any reason not to?

OP: It's probably unlikely you will able to manipulate your feelings by taking supplements in quite the way you're describing, or pinpoint why you don't feel mentally great through a blood panel. oToH I'm all for the idea of Orthomolecular medicine. Vitamin D would probably have little effect towards making people feel low for most people.

That said I like Vitamin D, it generally makes me feel good, although I found the dry form better than the oil caps. I don't think D2 or D3 makes a huge difference. I suspect like a lot of things though the body quickly gets used to it, and any feel good factor becomes normal.

You say vitamin D shouldn't make people feel bad, in fact you say it's unlikely that one can manipulate feelings by taking supplements, then you go on to say that vitamin d makes you feel good. Which is it? What makes you think the dry form is "better"? Are you checking your blood levels? People who have looked at blood levels find the dry D supplements to be very poorly absorbed, to the point of uselessness. You may not think D2 or D3 makes any difference, but I'm pretty sure that D3 is the only way to go. Can you even find D2 supplements any more?

I thought vitamin E was supposed to be an antioxidant, but the "Unique E" vitamin E company states that although vitamin E is an antioxidant in the body, it can not prevent oxidation of the soy or other oils used in the supplement itself.

Fish oils, Krill, vitamins A, D, & E, and even lecithin have all been found to go rancid very soon after exposure to the oxygen in room air after a new bottle is opened.

Vitamin E can't prevent oxidation of oils? Are all the fish oil companies who add it as an antioxidant just fooling themselves? It sounds like the "Unique E" company might be BS-ing you. I suppose anything formulated with an unsaturated oil could go bad, but I've bit into softgels containing various oil-formulated things on a number of occasions and have never come across one that tasted bad. I did have a fish oil cap that leaked and went bad, wrecking part of the bottle, but even then the rest were ok. I buy all my supplements from high-volume internet retailers, so they haven't been sitting on a shelf in a hot store for a year before I get them. Maybe that's the secret...

You say vitamin D shouldn't make people feel bad, in fact you say it's unlikely that one can manipulate feelings by taking supplements, then you go on to say that vitamin d makes you feel good. Which is it? What makes you think the dry form is "better"? Are you checking your blood levels? People who have looked at blood levels find the dry D supplements to be very poorly absorbed, to the point of uselessness. You may not think D2 or D3 makes any difference, but I'm pretty sure that D3 is the only way to go. Can you even find D2 supplements any more?

According to my pharmacist, D2 is the only form available by prescription (50,000 IU). This is supposedly because D2 is less likely to cause hypervitaminosis D. This is likely the case; my D levels went up more quickly on lower doses of D3 than high-dose D2. Also -- possibly relevant to the OP -- the high-dose D2 made me dizzy and tired. I switched to, and still take, vitamin D drops; the only other ingredient is fractionated coconut oil and you can drop them right on your tongue if you want to make sure it's not rancid.

Tiredness and drowsiness is normally a symptom of overload.
But I've noticed that a change in the brand just caused me extreme drowsiness (my head was getting so heavy and tried to knock me out). I was struggling to not fall asleep.
Before I was taking myprotein 4x2500iu D3 caps (with soybean oil that gave me some headaches), and then I just happened to take one capsule 10000iu D3 from healthy origins (with olive oil).
I had an episode of extreme drowsiness during 30 mins then it disappeared.
last year when I took GHB in the day I had exactly the same kind drowsiness, same duration as well.
Could this be related to hypocretin (precursor to orexin).?
This could mean that for people like me who have this extreme drowsiness should take it in the evening, for me there's a delay of 5 hours before symptoms appear, I took it at 6AM then symptoms occured at 11AM.

Now I find it strange that a change of brand causes that, Myprotein is quite reliable even though they use cheap stuff, as for Health Origins they have dozens of very good reviews about their products.

I also feel like crap after I take D3 supp. I figured it was messing with my calcium or had something to do with magnesium, but obviously that's just guessing. It doesn't make sense since I feel great when I get sunlight. I've haven't given it much thought ever since I got my levels tested and they were normal.

You can always go the diet route - increase eggs yolks, beef liver, salmon, etc.

I think for some Vitamin D may lower blood glucose levels, if I take vitamin D3 on an empty stomach in mid afternoon I feel similar symptoms. I find taking it with a meal helps.

My guess is sunlight does not cause the same symptoms since its a more gradual rise as opposed to a single large dose via a supplement.

How low are you really? Many testing companies put the lower cutoff too high, as indicated by the Council of medicine report last year.

If your levels are above 20 ng/ml (same as 50 nmol/l), you are not low.
Edited by viveutvivas, 13 February 2013 - 06:47 PM.

Vitamin d also increases tyrosine hydroxylase by a few hundred percent. So if you feel bad with increased dopamine, noradrenaline or adrenaline, this might be the cause.

Vitamin d also increases tyrosine hydroxylase by a few hundred percent. So if you feel bad with increased dopamine, noradrenaline or adrenaline, this might be the cause.

This is interesting, because every time I've tried to increase my dopamine through supplementation (to fight anhedonia, get my motivation up) I also end up feeling like crap.

If that is the case it would be interesting to know if it was dopamine, noradrenaline or adrenaline that makes you feel like crap. They are all being increased, when you try to increase dopamine through precursors and not reuptake inhibitors.

If that is the case it would be interesting to know if it was dopamine, noradrenaline or adrenaline that makes you feel like crap. They are all being increased, when you try to increase dopamine through precursors and not reuptake inhibitors.

From a brief skimming of wikipedia I would guess it's noradrenaline.

You could check if your iron or copper levels are too high. Both are needed to convert dopamine into noradrenaline. Maybe a high dose zinc supplement could help to lower copper, if it is too high, or blood donation if its iron.
Edited by BioFreak, 14 February 2013 - 10:44 PM.

You could check if your iron or copper levels are too high. Both are needed to convert dopamine into noradrenaline. Maybe a high dose zinc supplement could help to lower copper, if it is too high, or blood donation if its iron.

My serum iron is within the normal range.

I have no idea on my level or ratio of zinc/copper. I do take zinc daily because it makes me feel good. I'm up for my annual blood test soon and I plan on getting some extra testing done this time, so maybe I'll add a mineral test.

Dopamine lowers serotonin, likely why you feel like "crap." Try taking something that boosts serotonin like Cissus.

Dopamine lowers serotonin, likely why you feel like "crap." Try taking something that boosts serotonin like Cissus.

Hmm. What I'm hearing is:

Supplemental D3 -> increased tyrosine hydroxylase -> increased dopamine/noradrenaline/adrenaline -> decreased serotonin

It would actually be worth feeling bad if the increased dopamine actually did what I'd hoped it would do.

Citations needed on Cissus increasing serotonin. It seems to be referenced tangentially in one study and the other study isn't even published.

I have used Cissus my self and can tell you it does increase serotonin quite strongly.

I find with supplements sometimes the best way to know what it does is just try it and see how you respond.

I have used Cissus my self and can tell you it does increase serotonin quite strongly.

I find with supplements sometimes the best way to know what it does is just try it and see how you respond.

That's what I've been doing.. Over the past 6 months I've tried several things based on research and anecdotes from this forum and none of them have panned out.

This isn't an indictment of longecity, you or your recommendation - it's simply how I'm feeling in general about supps atm.

/shrug

I have used Cissus my self and can tell you it does increase serotonin quite strongly.

I find with supplements sometimes the best way to know what it does is just try it and see how you respond.

That's what I've been doing.. Over the past 6 months I've tried several things based on research and anecdotes from this forum and none of them have panned out.

This isn't an indictment of longecity, you or your recommendation - it's simply how I'm feeling in general about supps atm.

/shrug

Yes, I feel your frustration. I have used a ton of supplements over the years and most either did not work or the side effects outweighed any small benefit. But there are a small amount of supplements that do seem to "work" which makes the trial and error of the rest all the more worth it.

These supplements I find work for me with no noticable sides

Mucana Pruriens seems to help my mood overall
Thryoid/Adrenal glandular seems to give me some energy boost
Stinging Nettle seems to boost my mood, energy, and testosterone
Iodine from sea sources seems to boost my energy and help my joints