18 replies to this topic

[Levis2]

Today 10:27    
I have ordered a batch of piracetam, and plan on taking it for cognitive enhancement. I care a lot about my wellbeing and intelligence, so i do this in order to increase my intellectual capabilites - if there are any detrimental effects related to piracetam use, i would like to know about it.

I do not care if some of you think it has no effect, since i still will be taking it then All i care about is the possible negative effects of the drug, and i am especially interested in long term detrimental effects - such as addictions and withdrawal symptoms.

I have encountered threads on several boards about guys having been on a long term piracetam intake. When they stop, they experience tremors and muscle spasms coupled with anxiety - they say this occurs once they stop piracetam, and the symptoms disappear once the piracetam intake is resumed. This sounds like a rather serious case of a legit addiction to this drugs, and i want to know whether this is something everyone experiences, since i wouldnt like to get addicted to anything in general.

thank you. I t will be ingested with ALCAR and choline bitartrate and fish oil.

[Introspecta]

I've I've been taking Piracetam for 4 years sometimes in extremely large doses over long period of time and have never experienced any sort of withdrawals. The only thing that i noticed was that i may not have been as energized and as focused as i was when i was on it so this could be looked at as a withdrawal but in reality it just the state of mind you had before taking the piractam. You may be confusing with Phenibut.

[kassem23]

Psychological withdrawal is my only worry! I've just started it, and combined with fish-oil, and re-dosing every 3 hours, it's an absolutely amazing experience.

As Peter's grandfather (Ref. SpiderMan) tells him: "With great power, comes great responsibility", I believe the same is true for PIR. When you realize you are much stronger mentally, you may to exercise some caution in how you use it. It may amplify some of your negative (as well as positive, naturally) personality-traits. Just something to be aware of!

I wish you the best of luck ; - )

[kikosanchez]

Kassem23, may I ask what your piracetam dosing is? Also, do you take choline, and if so what kind and dosing? Anything else in your stack besides fish oil? Sounds like you've had very good results.

[Neurotik]

One word comes to mind: isochroma.

Do be careful.

[kassem23]

Kassem23, may I ask what your piracetam dosing is? Also, do you take choline, and if so what kind and dosing? Anything else in your stack besides fish oil? Sounds like you've had very good results.

Sure.

1. Piracetam: My dosing pattern is 1 teaspoon of Piracetam every 3 hours; I'm not sure how much that is, but I take a teaspoon and make sure it's completely level with the outline of the border of the teaspoon, which I assume is ~3grams of PIR, but I can't be sure until my weighing scale arrives. This totals 15 grams of PIR per day.

2. Fish-oil: My dosing pattern is 3 grams of high grade fish-oil every 3 hours (as adjunct to the PIR). 1 capsule includes 300 mg EPA, 210 mg DHA, 600mg Omega-3 fatty acids, and 90 mg other omega-3 fatty acids. (That is what it states on the label). It's called 'Pikasol Premium', from Denmark, but honestely I believe any type of fish-oil (even the cheapest) would be just as good. This totals 15 grams of FO per day.

3. I don't take any choline source; and I have zero headaches. I tried ALCAR on day #4, and it resulted in severe mental impairment, including severe mood-disturbances, including mild-depression, anhedonia and akathisia. That is not to say, that you will not benefit from the choline however. It may be prudent for you; but I'd suggest that you try Piracetam plus fish-oil first.

4. I'm taking D-vitamin, 1000IU every day. I'm thinking about upping my dosage of D-vitamin, but I'm not sure hyper-dosing would do anything, so I'll have to do some research.

5. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

I hope that helps. Best of luck from here.

One word comes to mind: isochroma.

Do be careful.

Haven't experienced any single negative demeanor in my mood, or otherwise. I have family around 100% of the time, so they would surely notice, but my employer's, family-members, and friends all say that I seem different in a positive way. More positive, more agreeable, more insightful, more energized, and less moody. Remember that fish-oil, by itself, acts as a mood-stabilizer. But yes, I'll be careful, and observe my behavior closely, as I'm used to. I'm very aware of my own behavior.

Edited by kassem23, 27 August 2011 - 03:49 PM.

[manic_racetam]

If I take a mega-dose 8+ grams during the day it usually causes a crash within about 6 hours. The crash feels a bit like withdrawal from caffeine and doesn't seem to be relieved by a nap. Sometimes a large night-time dose will make me a bit groggy in the morning as well, but I suspect it could be dehydration. But with lower doses I don't notice any side effects. Don't notice any nootropic benefits either though.

I'm very susceptible to addiction and I probably won't reorder when my kilo finally runs out, so I guess the addiction aspect of your question shouldn't be too much of a worry.

[jlspartz]

The anxious effect over time can be due to it downregulating GluR1-3 and causing an abundance of glutamate to not be in full use anymore. It screws up the glutamate-glutamine cycle which screws up the GABA-glutamine cycle. Once stopping, the receptors replenish and there's an abudance of the receptors being activated. It's not a cause of addiction. It is known to decrease addictions which are regulated by GluR5. If you want to get a sustained good effect from it you need to do 24hr on, 24hr off cycles, or take a very low dose daily to sneak past the downregulation. http://www.ncbi.nlm....?tool=pmcentrez Piracetam is weaker than the study ampakine so it would take more time to downregulate, unless at mega doses. Major downregulation starts at 6 hours in the study. You can block any anxiety from it with zinc, which is a voltage dependant NMDAR antagonist that double binds to the receptors so they can't easily pass on the ions to the glutamate receptors and overload them.

[What'sAllThisThen]

Just figured I'd add my experience for future searchers of Piracetam Withdrawal, Piracetam Cessation, Anxiety, and combos thereof.

I took 5 grams of Piracetam every morning, empty stomach with some Fish Oil for the last 2.5 weeks. No choline source except the first handful of days, but since I was showing no negative symptoms, I went without the rest of the time. A few of those days I took a second dose around 9 hours later. Since I wasn't feeling any effects (other than a couple notes of possible color saturation improvement, which could have easily been placebo as well) I stopped on Tueday to reevaluate my dosing and co-factors. Was essentially going to pick back up after preparing 5gram doses I could take to work for 2nd dosing as one morning dose was clearly doing nothing. No positive effects and maybe just slightly dizzy a couple nights for a short while.

On Wedneday night I had anxiety during my sleep and some terrors when being awoken a few times throughout the windy night. I used to have that problem, but not for over a year since starting Sam-e(200mg 5 days a week). Thursday just had some trailing anxiety leftover from the night before, but not too bothersome. I was already suspecting it was the Piracetam since that's the only new culprit likely capable. That night I ate dinner, rested on the couch to read Longecity and anxiety grew into a panic attack. I've had 8 out of 10 score panic attacks before, and this was only about a 5 lasting 15 minutes, general symtpoms/anxiety lasting a few hours. I didn't want to read Longecity at the time, because I was suspecting Piracetam and I wanted to ride it out without bad thoughts spurred on by possible Piracetam threads and negative comments.

Like I said, I've had anxiety before and regularly, but I haven't had any of any bothersome level for over a year. And only the rare bothersome level for the year before that. So nearly 2 years without any anxiety worth calling anxiety, so this was definitely out of the ordinary. Friday my day had lingering anxiety, but not too bothersome. Most bothersome was mostly the thought that I might be sinking back into an anxious state that I'd have to deal with for weeks or months to come, and fearing my expected 2nd panic attack that night. However, it did not come. I bought some Relora and took some late that night, but that was only because I bought it, I didn't need it. I was already past the time I'd expect the panic attack and felt fine the whole night without any level of anxiety.

So it seems to me, that I had a Piracetam withdrawal experience. Now feeling fine I felt brave enough to research it and I found others on other forums who also experienced severe anxiety after ceasing Piracetam and even after such a short time on it. My anxiety only lasted a couple of days with only one panic attack, and relief for others seems to come within mere days or so as well.

Just thought I'd put it out there for future sufferers. It is possible and perhaps normal for some, but it will pass. Some may also experience tics or spasms, and those I read will pass shortly as well, even if minor for a couple weeks. I experienced none myself.

At the time of the panic attack, I swore off Piracetam, but I may experiment further eventually if I find possible causes or co-factors/dosing that would actually make taking it worth it as well. Or maybe move on to Pram or Ani.

[kassem23]

Piracetam doesn't have any direct receptor FX, so it would make no sense that it would have withdrawal effects. I believe what you're describing could be placebo or possibly something else entirely.

[vali]

I've been taking 4.8 gram dosages each morning, and the effect makes me too happy. The happiest, most self confident I've been is on piracetam. I feel smart, supremely self-confident, witty, totally in control. Music is beatiful, life is strange and wonderious, everything I write is brilliant, gold. Then a couple hours pass, I just calm down, and go back to being my normal self. I believe the term thrown around here is hypo-mania. I'm not sure how much of this effect is me, and how much is piracetam exaggerating my pre-existing character traits, but either way, I plan on scaling back the dosages. Also planning on throwing in some theanine. I want to transform that energy and self confidence into calm, steady focus instead of just ego stroking.

I have yet to encounter any sort of unpleasent side effects or come-down, with the possible exception of a mild headache the one time I forgot to supplement choline, and a case of brain-fog the one time I took too much choline. Use piracetam responsibly, and you'll do fine.

[lietosanabaltija]

vali, you might be interested in some of the pharmacological data from Grindeks (Latvian manufacturers of Piracetam) regards Piracetam's effective time:

According to Grindeks website (www.grindeks.lv) under Piracetam's "Pharmacodynamic properties":

"Maximal plasma concentration is reached within 30-60 minutes. Stable concentration in plasma is reached within 3 days.
The extent of oral bioavailability is almost 100 %. Food does not affect absorption, but decreases C max for 17 % and increases t max from 1 to 1.5 hours."

and

"Piracetam crosses the blood-brain barrier. In cerebrospinal liquid tmax is reached within approximately 5 hours after administration of the dose and elimination half-life is approximately 8.5 hours. Piracetam is distributed in all tissues, except adipose tissue and, crosses placental barrier and isolated membranes of erythrocytes."

and

"In adults plasma half–life is approximately 5 hours. Total clearance is 80–90ml/min. Piracetam is mainly excreted with urine (80–100% of the dose), in small quantities with feces (1–2%)."

Everyone concerned about Piracetam's safety should also read the section under "Preclinical safety data".

[gamesguru]

The anxious effect over time can be due to it downregulating GluR1-3 and causing an abundance of glutamate to not be in full use anymore. It screws up the glutamate-glutamine cycle which screws up the GABA-glutamine cycle. Once stopping, the receptors replenish and there's an abudance of the receptors being activated. It's not a cause of addiction. It is known to decrease addictions which are regulated by GluR5. If you want to get a sustained good effect from it you need to do 24hr on, 24hr off cycles, or take a very low dose daily to sneak past the downregulation. http://www.ncbi.nlm....?tool=pmcentrez Piracetam is weaker than the study ampakine so it would take more time to downregulate, unless at mega doses. Major downregulation starts at 6 hours in the study. You can block any anxiety from it with zinc, which is a voltage dependant NMDAR antagonist that double binds to the receptors so they can't easily pass on the ions to the glutamate receptors and overload them.

Amazing information, my friend. I had an inkling that sustained high doses of piracetam resulted in some undesirable, imbalanced homeostasis, but now your theories will let me think about this more clearly, and hopefully there is some truth to be found in your theories! I tend to take one or two day(s) of high dose (4800 mg 2x daily), followed by a day or two of low dose (800 mg 2x daily), followed by a day or two off. This seems to prevent the GluR1-3 downregulation and the subsequent imbalances in GABA/glutamate/glutamine you're speaking of. I am curious to see if you think any cycle is better than 24 hrs on/24 hrs off. I also would like to know if the anxiety prevention due to zinc helps with the imbalance with AMPA receptors? Thanks!

Edited by dasheenster, 12 March 2012 - 04:11 PM.

[health_nutty]

I found that piracetam made me extremely irritable. Supplementing with l-glutamic acid helped. Be mindful of your emotional state.

[What'sAllThisThen]

Piracetam doesn't have any direct receptor FX, so it would make no sense that it would have withdrawal effects. I believe what you're describing could be placebo or possibly something else entirely.

The anxiety and panic were undeniable, that's for sure. If I incorrectly attributed it to Piracetam and/or let that create anxiety, then of course that has placebo potential. But 2 years without real anxiety and zero panic attacks suggests to me it was induced by more than just my mind, as even thinking of bad things does not induce anxiety or panic for me anymore. It came barely two days after cessation and left another two after that and not a lick of anxiety since. On top of that, I found around 4 other reports of people experiencing severe anxiety after ceasing Piracetam. I didn't search any further, as it was just out of curiosity. I had already gotten over the anxious period before even searching about Piracetam and and withdrawal anxiety, so I was not aware of the possibility beforehand. I was aware that some would be anxious while on Piracetam though, but I had zero while dosing.

Placebo is a hell of a drug, but I don't think it was. "You're in denial." "No, I'm not". "See, I told ya." Can't win, can't ever be sure.

I'm considering dosing again in a couple weeks and experimenting with multiple doses and calcium/l-glutamic acid (even if the source of the thread has been discredited). based on some anecdotal reports, such as health_nutty's. Not to avoid the anxiety, but to illicit an effect.

[Cephalon]

I'm using Piracetam for around 4 years now and I can confirm that there is not addiction or withdrawl associated to it. (doses from 1200mg to 10-15g)

[teley]

One word comes to mind: isochroma.

Do be careful.

what is the isochroma story? i've seen it mentioned a few times on these forums

[Debaser]

So I don't think I've ever had racetam withdrawals before, but I want to share the experience I've had over the past week.

 

I've been taking piracetam for a while, and then a couple of weeks ago I stopped taking it and began taking oxiracetam instead. While I'm taking it I feel what some of you may know: happy, free from anxiety, sharp, clear, that everything looks beautiful, optimistic, verbally fluent, more loquacious, nothing makes me feel sad etc.

 

Then last week I decided to have a week off. So I stopped taking the oxiracetam. Here is what happened: I felt depressed. I have been clinically depressed years ago, and this felt very similar to that. I haven't felt this way in a very long time, but it was like a veil was drawn over me. I couldn't feel happy. Nothing made me laugh. I couldn't enjoy things any more. Tiny little things would make me feel down. I felt drained. I had no energy. I felt like I was in a dense fog the whole time. Sometimes I felt completely exhausted. Occasionally I was on the verge of tears. I remember sitting at work thinking "I wish I could just lie down and cry, but I have to wait a few more hours until I can go home". This is very unlike me... or rather, the me of the last few years.

 

I was also terrible at everything I did. Things that required hand-eye coordination or fast reactions or quick thoughts. And caffeine didn't seem to help. I usually find caffeine is synergistic with piracetam or oxiracetam, but it seemed like without them it didn't do much. I wonder if my adrenal system has been fatigued.

 

In terms of physical symptoms my left eye got a persistent twitch (the skin just below it moving by itself). It was happening pretty much every minute of every day, and was really annoying. After a few days the same began to happen to the right eye. By the 7th day I felt so bad that I took a small amount of piracetam. The eye twtich went away immediately, my mood stabilised, the fog lifted, I felt happy and alert again.

 

This worries me, because I don't want to be dependent on racetams to feel normal. I've never had such strong rebound/withdrawal symptoms before. I really enjoy the person who I am when I'm taking piracetam, but normally when I cycle off I just lose my edge a bit and I'm not as talkative, but it seems like when I stopped taking oxiracetam this time it hit me really hard.

 

Please bear in mind that this post is just an anecdote, and shouldn't be taken as evidence of the danger of piracetam or oxiracetam, which I consider to be generally very safe. It is possible that the symptoms I describe are coincidental and have another cause. But I'd be very interested to hear of similar experiences or any advice.

[jerey34]

I'm using Piracetam for around 4 years now and I can confirm that there is not addiction or withdrawl associated to it. (doses from 1200mg to 10-15g)

 

recently stopped use and also didn't get withdrawal