16 replies to this topic

[Kosta]

I've been lurking on the forums for quite some time and I finally decided to actually get involved. Hopefully, this knowledgable community will be able to help me out.

I was diagnosed with ADHD-PI a few months ago. Prior to that I struggled all through high school and also had issues in college. I have the classic symptoms and cognitive problems most people with ADHD-PI have, with no comorbidities (depression, schizophrenia, etc.) I recently started doing research into supplementation with nootropics and decided to start out with a few. I should mention that I'm 23, male, 180lbs and I just started a new University program in Neuroscience (which is very demanding and the primary purpose for supplementation.)

The players:

Vyvanse
L-Tyrosine
L-Theanine
B-Complex
Fish Oil
Multivitamin w/ CoQ10
Green Tea
considering CDP Choline(?)

So far after some research I'm thinking of doing the following:

During the week:

-Throughout the day drink 1 litre (4 bags) of Green Tea
-Breakfast w/ multivitamin (standard vit. with low concentrations of the typical vit. w/ CoQ10)
-3-4g of L-Tyrosine w/ B-100 Complex on empty stomach
-Lunch w/ fish oil (tbsp of carlson's cod liver oil)
- 300mg of L-Theanine shortly after

During the weekend:

-Breakfast w/ Vyvanse and multivitamin
-Lunch w/ fish oil
-Dinner w/ L-Theanine?



I know my stack and the organization may seem strange, but I'm just starting out. Please recommend any re-arrangements, additions, modifications, advice or anything at all. Thank you all in advance.

Cheers,
Kosta

[Dirk_Diggler]

Actually, that stack sounds really good. The only thing I would say is lose the Vyvanse but if it's from a doctor and you truly need it, then there's no getting around that. But all the supplements you are taking seem to be built around the Vyvanse (multivitamin for all around health, theanine to reduce the negative effects of the vyvanse, the tyrosine to rebuild the dopamine) so that seems pretty good.

Only thing I would add would be whey protein for meal replacements when you don't feel like eating or are on the go. What dose of Vyvanse are you on? In the long run, the Vyvanse isn't going to really improve anything cognitively, it's only a short term thing.
And I would add Alpha Lipoic Acid (and if you have the money, R-Alpha Lipic Acid, the R-enantiomer of Alpha Lipoic Acid which is the active and beneficial enantiomer) for it's antioxidant effect on possible neurotoxicity of Vyvanse, aka Dextroamphetamine.

But I'm no doctor, just going on my present understanding of amphetamines. There are most likely more qualified people than I to give advice in this area.

Edited by Dirk_Diggler, 10 September 2011 - 04:07 AM.

[unregistered_user]

I'd also recommend dropping the Vyvanse and up your fish oil dosage. Fish oil has been linked to helping to control symptoms of ADHD. I too have ADHD-PI and am doing well on fish oil, a multi, a b-complex, piracetam and deprenyl.

Good luck.

[Kosta]

Yes I forgot to mention that the Vyvanse dose is 40mg and I also usually have a protein shake mid-day. 30mg of Vyvanse produced minimal effects and I will be starting with the 40 tomorrow. I'm also taking 500mg of elemental magnesium to counteract the neurotoxic effects of Vyvanse and considering taking 500mg calcium carbonate (200mg elemental calcium) by tums (generic) to neutralize stomach acid thereby increasing bio-availability (of the Vyvanse.) I'll also look into R-Alpha Lipic Acid.

semi-retarded individual, I've been taking 16g of fish oil for a really long time (4g per tsp= ~16g per tbsp) and it seems quite high as it is, especially considering I'd have to take ~8 softgels to reach the equivalent.

[Dirk_Diggler]

That's a pretty small dose...comparable to appx 15mg of Adderall XR in effects. Since Vyvanse isn't an amphetamine until the lysine is cleaved off, then taking Tums may or may not work. It does enhance bioavailability of amphetamine, but in order for it to work with Vyvanse, then making your kidney's more alkaline would be the only way to increase bioavailabilty. Vyvanse actually has good bioavailability without any antacids. So I don't think you have to worry about that aspect of it. Taking the magnesium is a very good move, though.

[Dirk_Diggler]

My brother is on 70mg Vyvanse. I told him that taking baking soda might help with potentiating it, if you take it often enough to make your kidneys alkaline, but this isn't advised. I'm kinda sorry I told him about it because now every morning he takes baking soda. So it has to be doing something since he's not the kind to go out of his way to do much of anything. But him taking the baking soda like clockwork had me a little concerned. And still does.

[Kosta]

Wasted 5 bucks on tums then....I'm thinking of increasing the magnesium dosage to 1000mg since I'd only be taking it Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights. And I'm not sure if it's wise to take 3-4g of Tyrosine 5 days a week. Maybe just Monday, Wednesday and Friday, alternating between 3 and 4g. Any thoughts?

[Kosta]

After taking 40mg Vyvanse yesterday, I think I'm going to cut it out of my regimen altogether. Although I was able to focus for a couple of hours, I think the effective dose would be in the neighbourhood of 70mg and I don't think I want to go that high considering the mild side effects I'm experiencing now would be amplified. I'm now unsure when I should be breaking from l-tyrosine and l-theanine. I'm thinking of taking theanine on the days I'm not taking tyrosine and vice versa. I'm not sure if I should replace the Vyvanse or further disperse the supps I'm taking now. Any more insight from anyone?

[Kosta]

Semi-retarded-individual:
I recently read a thread you posted on September 12. Here is as excerpt of what you wrote (re: piracetam and deprenyl):

"So far I've only experienced dullness, irritation, fatigue and brainfog. I haven't noted any positive effects yet although I did try piracetam about 6 months ago and experienced many of the usual positives (effortless locution, increased focus, mild energy increase, etc.) so I'm hoping after a couple of weeks I'll become reacquainted with those effects. For now, I'm struggling to articulate my thoughts, can't think abstractly and in general feel maladroit. It's like every facet of my being is blunted (emotions, mental acuity, interest..)"


This concerns me considering that you told me that you're "doing well" on this combination. Has anything changed since or before this post (optimal dosing, cognitive abilities, etc.?)

[unregistered_user]

I just found this thread again by happenstance when Googling some drug combos so apologies for the delayed response.

I have cycled a few experiments with Piracetam, high dose fish oil, and deprenyl and it turned out to be kind of a mixed bag. I am actually trying it again now and what I'm finding to be consistent with my trials is that although my cognition seems enhanced, my mood lacks continuity. I sometimes feel like I "go inside myself" and become easily agitated.

It's challenging to put any of this in definite terms because some days are different than others. I may be adding l-thenanine, picamilon or PEA (be careful) to the lineup so see if I can address the mood issues.

[OneScrewLoose]

Just a note on taking Tyrosine. The dopamine and serotonin systems balance each other out. Upping serotonin reduces dopamine through 5HT2c receptor, and upping dopamine can reduce serotonin, though I am not sure of the mechanism. If you are going to take Tyrosine in the day, a precursor to dopamine, it might be wise to take tryptophan at night before going to bed.

[Kosta]

Thanks for the replies.
Semi, I know the feeling you're talking about, I get it from the vyvanse. It also causes tremendous anxiety and the crashes are mostly horrible, sometimes followed by emotional episodes. Lately I've been taking 300mg of l-theanine on an empty stomach after the vyvanse in the morning, and another 300mg after my following meal. It seems to marginally reduce the anxiety, but it is helpful.
As an aside, 600mg of elemental magnesium (chelated to glycine and lysine) has eliminated the insomnia produced by vyvanse. I was taking 300mg nightly before, which did nothing for sleep.
Screw, I've been supplementing with 3.5g of tyrosine only about once or twice per week (I also only take vyvanse about that often), so I don't think it should be a major problem.

I've added Zinc glycinate and Gingko Biloba to the above regimen and also ordered RLA, ALCAR, PQQ and Resveratrol to try and work them into my regimen. Obviously my goal is optimal cognitive functioning, yet I also want to remove the "need" for medication.

Edited by Kosta, 10 November 2011 - 02:13 PM.

[sambocyn]

I've been lurking on the forums for quite some time and I finally decided to actually get involved. Hopefully, this knowledgable community will be able to help me out.

I was diagnosed with ADHD-PI a few months ago. Prior to that I struggled all through high school and also had issues in college. I have the classic symptoms and cognitive problems most people with ADHD-PI have, with no comorbidities (depression, schizophrenia, etc.) I recently started doing research into supplementation with nootropics and decided to start out with a few. I should mention that I'm 23, male, 180lbs and I just started a new University program in Neuroscience (which is very demanding and the primary purpose for supplementation.)

The players:

Vyvanse
L-Tyrosine
L-Theanine
B-Complex
Fish Oil
Multivitamin w/ CoQ10
Green Tea
considering CDP Choline(?)

So far after some research I'm thinking of doing the following:

During the week:

-Throughout the day drink 1 litre (4 bags) of Green Tea
-Breakfast w/ multivitamin (standard vit. with low concentrations of the typical vit. w/ CoQ10)
-3-4g of L-Tyrosine w/ B-100 Complex on empty stomach
-Lunch w/ fish oil (tbsp of carlson's cod liver oil)
- 300mg of L-Theanine shortly after

During the weekend:

-Breakfast w/ Vyvanse and multivitamin
-Lunch w/ fish oil
-Dinner w/ L-Theanine?



I know my stack and the organization may seem strange, but I'm just starting out. Please recommend any re-arrangements, additions, modifications, advice or anything at all. Thank you all in advance.

Cheers,
Kosta

hey Kosta. you should try piracetam. (say 3g/day with a few hundred milligrams choline). after a few days of 'calibration' (too little choline -> headache; too much choline -> lethargy), the past several months on piracetam have been the best in my life. i think i'm borderline ADHD (just booked a consultation with a psych), and piracetam has helped, nay, empowered me to succeed.

[sambocyn]

I just found this thread again by happenstance when Googling some drug combos so apologies for the delayed response.

I have cycled a few experiments with Piracetam, high dose fish oil, and deprenyl and it turned out to be kind of a mixed bag. I am actually trying it again now and what I'm finding to be consistent with my trials is that although my cognition seems enhanced, my mood lacks continuity. I sometimes feel like I "go inside myself" and become easily agitated.

It's challenging to put any of this in definite terms because some days are different than others. I may be adding l-thenanine, picamilon or PEA (be careful) to the lineup so see if I can address the mood issues.

hmm, i suspect your 'mixed bag' was from the MAO-I. have you tried piracetam solo?

[unregistered_user]

I just found this thread again by happenstance when Googling some drug combos so apologies for the delayed response.

I have cycled a few experiments with Piracetam, high dose fish oil, and deprenyl and it turned out to be kind of a mixed bag. I am actually trying it again now and what I'm finding to be consistent with my trials is that although my cognition seems enhanced, my mood lacks continuity. I sometimes feel like I "go inside myself" and become easily agitated.

It's challenging to put any of this in definite terms because some days are different than others. I may be adding l-thenanine, picamilon or PEA (be careful) to the lineup so see if I can address the mood issues.

hmm, i suspect your 'mixed bag' was from the MAO-I. have you tried piracetam solo?

Quite likely. Yes, my experience with piracetam is consistent with what most other users experience. I had a honeymood period with it and now its affect on me is subtle and sometimes negligible, at best.

[egokiller]

I was also diagnosed with ADHD-Pi last November actually. I was put on vyvanse 30mg and worked my way up to 60mg. In the beginning I thought vyvanse was amazing, but also with being in a Neuroscience program (University of Delaware) my semester began to require multiple hours of late night studying. Now, one dose of vvyanse is not equipped to handle that. Vyvanse allowed me to pay attention during class and be present from the hours of 8-5. Upon finishing class at 5 I was beat. I would go for a run, workout, or take a nap. All these things would take me back up to normal but still ridiculously tired, so I'd end up falling asleep by 11pm. You can look this up on ADHD forums but vyvanse works a lot better if you exercise and get a full nights sleep. So, with classes and everything you schedule will be really packed. Least to say by the end of last spring semester my grades were the same as the previous semester before taking the vyvanse. I started looking into taking two doses and instant release medication then it dawned on me - these are fucking amphetamines - I'm really playing with fire and long term not doing much good for my mesolimbic dopamine feedback system.

I dropped the vyvanse and began looking into nootropics. Best decision I have ever made. A strong choline source and aniracetam leaves me glued to my work. A daily dose of piracetam keeps my overall level of attention a lot higher. With these supplements I can study either all day or very late in the day. Some sulbutiamine allows for a calm vyvanse like concentration without the comedown.

Just my experience take it for what its worth. I wish you the best of luck. Honestly though nothing will help like a solid exercise regimen.


EK

[Kosta]

Sambocyn, thanks for the advice. I am familiar with piracetam and know that it's one of the most used/popular nootropics (at least on this site.) However I didn't know that it actually acts as a motivator, but perhaps I need to get more educated on this.

Egokiller, it's good to know that someone can relate to my situation. Contrary to my first few experiences with l-theanine to counteract the drug induced anxiety, vyvanse has ended up producing more emotional pain, anxiety and panic attacks. I had one of the most intense regimens for a long while, which was required of me since I fought competitively. Though my routine since my days of fighting is more subdued, it doesn't seem to do much for cognitive performance. It's no surprise considering ADHD is primarily a developmental and neurophysiological disorder, but perhaps I should amp up my workouts in addition to trying piracetam or some other kind of racetam. It was one of the first nootropics on my list but since I know of no reputable sources that ship to Canada, I just left it alone. I've seen some improvements since starting the above stack plus the new supplements I listed in a later post but it seems clear now that I need to try piracetam or another racetam in addition to other compliments (choline, sulbutiamine, etc.)

Edited by Kosta, 24 November 2011 - 10:32 PM.