26 replies to this topic

[Infernity]

Guys, would you please help me out of that chaos [?]
I know that the human brain uses only a very small piece of it (by the way, is it 6% or 10%??)
However, Is that possible for men someday to use 100% of his brain?
I mean how can that be? using 100% of the brain means doing every possible thing at the same time- knowing everything, thinking about everything, moving in every possible way, and much, much, much more [!] that means you just know everything, even the future, because 100% full means no more place for memories, and having all the knoledge- knowing everything, and moves- have the ability to move however you wish at the same time... (or maybe it is just collapses before knowing everything...?!) but a collapse of the brain beacuse of using to much place is not really available... Using 100% of it means also having a very sophisticated ways to survive I guess, I don't think the brain would have let itself to breakdown because of overload that includes also the way to defend itself from that same overload...
Using 100% of the brain means also doing things that now we just cannot even try and think about imagening them, we are just not able to imagine those things like blind man congenitally cannot know what's a color! imagine yourself you could control the electricity of your body, taste smells, smell views, see sounds, hear touchs, sense tastes etcetera, know what's more than three dimensions (not only see it but use even other senses to be aware to more than 3D), have more senses and much, much, much more!
What shall happen in case of using the whole brain? What is that means? No more ability to develop anything, 'cause everything's already exists in the mind, cannot live the futer because there's no more place for memories and knowledge, cannot develop because the brain just known as knowing everything, no more place to use, that shall help you develop. Is that a great perfectness? Is that just perfectness to use 100% of our brain? Is it just to sophisticated for me to understand how perfect it is? Or is it a total dystopia? (which I don't quite understand either) That is such a chaos! What shall happen if you won't be able to have future?, If we won't have place in our brain for future?
If we weren't designated to use whole our brain- why is it there for? there must be a reason! If we shall someday- how we shall have a future? Is our brain able to completely delet some information? destroy it so it shall be like something that never happend? Is that another thing that the brain will be able to do in case of using all of it? Is that what the brain shall do when he gotta get more information but it has no place? Is the 100% use of it shall give it also the ability to find the unnecessary at all and delete it forever?
I am so confused!
Can anyone help me with these wonderings?
I'd really love to hear your opinion and resoning!
Anything about a full use of the human brain.

Thanks alot, really
Yours truthfully
~Infernity

Edited by infernity, 25 January 2005 - 04:05 PM.

[olaf.larsson]

I know that the human brain uses only a very small piece of it (by the way, is it 6% or 10%??)

Sorry for you but you are very missinformed.

[Infernity]

Sorry for you but you are very missinformed.

Well, than would you inform me please??? [huh]

Yours
~Infernity

[stevethegreat]

I have read somewhere (don't remember where, I think it was an article) that the few people in history who are known to have had supernatural powers was because they achieved somehow to gain access in more than usual percentage of brain.

I myself had met a person who had a strange aura (he died a few years ago and it is considered as saint in my country, Greece), you felt that he already knew what you were about to say and the most terrifying thing was that although his old age he had a strange glow in his eyes, like he looked inside your mind. He was a monk in Mount Athos, if you know this place, which is considered as one of the most spiritual places around the world, there many monks achieve very high standards, through "intellectual practice", on what christ talked about; if you visit this place and talk with some monks there you always have a strange feeling. However this particular monk had sth I have never felt again and I don't expect to.

[Infernity]

Steve,
Hmmm, I was fascinating by all the greeks history and myths, I always found it quite interesting although I never belived the supernatural parts...
Forgive me for being a little bit skeptic about that little piece of information. I shall belive you as for what you feel; but as for the technical details I shall check when I'm a bit more mature and it would be pragmatically possible for me to travel on my own.
Anyway, thanks for the information, I'll respect that.
There are lots of unexplained unearthly phenomena, indeed.

Yours
~Infernity

[jaydfox]

I don't think the issue is whether we use only 6% or 10% of our brains. I think the issue is that our conscious mind only uses a small percentage. Think of the brain as a huge, complex operating system.

On a computer, the program you're running isn't using 100% of the CPU resources, even if it's running as fast as the computer can handle. The OS is still running in the background, using up precious cycles, handling timing and input/output functions, e.g. network traffic, the MP3 player you've got running in the background, hard disk access, memory swapping, etc.

But all you care about is your program, and you may be disappointed to learn that it's only using 85% of the CPU cycles of your computer.

Well, the human brain's OS is far more complex, so it stands to reason that it uses a heck of a lot more of the "cycles" that are available.

Also, some of your brain isn't even actively processing information, but storing it. Would you be upset if your program could only use 2 GB of RAM, even though you clearly have a 60 GB hard drive? Well, what if 40 GB of that space is storing your home videos, and another 10 GB is storing all your programs (including the ones you're not running at the moment, but run on a regular basis at other times of the day), leaving only 10 GB of disk space for memory swapping? Is it fair to say that your program only has access to 20% of the working memory of your computer? No.

And these two analogies are just the simplest two that we could come up with. Given the brains complex interconnectedness, we could come up with even better analogies to explain why your conscious mind only uses a small fraction of your brain.

If you could truly use 100% of your brain, you would have to be consciously aware of regulating your pupil dilation, heart rate, each of the dozens of muscles involved in frowning, etc. You'd be so busy keeping track of all of that, that you'd probably still only be able to focus a few percent of your brain's power on your chosen conscious tasks.

In the end, probably the only way to maximize the brain's potential is to have a second brain run your body's autonomous needs, including memory storage, freeing up the first brain to run "full throttle" on conscious thought.

And before anyone beats me up on the bad science, let me say that IANAN. I am not a neurologist, so I could just be talking out of my... Well, let's just say I could be completely wrong.

[Infernity]

Your name is Jay, isn't it (jaydfox)?
Anyway jaydfox (for case it is not, I'll just call you jaydfox...)- well said.
Nice assumption, I didn't look at it that way, seem to be reasonable in fact.
Thanks

Yours
~Infernity

P.s. as for all, I'd still like to hear more outlooks...

Edited by infernity, 25 January 2005 - 05:43 PM.

[kraemahz]

The 10% Myth (Skeptical Inquirer) should clear this up for you.

[Lazarus Long]

Actually Infernity there are multiple issues but Wolfram is essentially correct, the 6-10% of your brain usage *Urban Legend* is nothing more than myth and unsupported by fact. I feel like the *Bald Mythbuster* now )

Elsewhere you will see a reference under the Mind-Brain issues but here is a link to start with.

http://www.brainconn...n=fa/brain-myth

The first issue is that the organ the brain functions all the time and much of its function is regulatory, for example autonomic function (heart/lungs metabolism) are on 24/7 but do have peaks and lows.

Second, some functions of consciousness are filters designed to order the chaos and quantity of input data.

Third, some functions of cognizance are distributed throughout the brain into different loci and are used as demand is placed on them.

Fourth, (this might be divided into separate categories) comes in with the various levels of programing (imprinting/education/experience) and this relates to the behavioral psychology of learning, GIGO, and habit.

And this is only a basic outline to start with but all your brain is in use (some of it albeit under different tasks and at different levels of intensity) all the time and is more akin to muscle on some levels, in that there is an exercise value of use it or lose it for some cognitive functions.

I am very glad you brought up this myth because it will repeat from time to time and it is a good place to reorganize how we think about the problems of defining intelligence, and the distinctions of mind with respect to the neurophysiology of the brain.

On the psych side of the debate you might review these pages.

http://www.psychjour...03_Newberg2.htm

http://faculty.washi...dler/facts.html

[Lazarus Long]

By the way in many respects the Urban Legend of the 6-10% brain usage can be studied as a classic viral meme.

The reason it largely exists is a product of gross cultural assumptions that were used to validate large scale decisions with respect to educational structure and funding.

[jaydfox]

Well, define how you mean it's an urban myth. Although the exact percentage is certainly up for interpretation, I think a very strong case exists that only a small fraction of our neurons are involved in "conscious" thought, e.g. the ability to perform a math problem. And as you pointed out, some of those neurons won't even be involved in the "conscious" portion, but are part of our programming, our learned skill to perform the task at hand through repitition and imitation.

Nonetheless, of the trillions of neurons in the brain, only a small percentage are involved in active, conscious thought. But, I would assume that a very large percentage of the neurons are at least doing something constructive towards defining your mind, personality, cognitive abilities, motor skills, etc. I seriously doubt there's much waste.

[Lazarus Long]

Jay I don't basically disagree with what you are saying but I do think we are differing in how we are interpreting the data sort of.

Of course the brain is only using fraction of its neurons for *consciousness*, first off only a fraction of the neurons are even designated to that purpose, and second supporting the *consciousness* is not all the brain does.

I don't expect your hands to talk either; can they be adapted to?

Sure, but basically they are structured for a very different purpose. I think of the limbic system for example that way. The brain is a highly complex system of regulatory controllers for sensory feedback loops controlling all levels of metabolism, balance, sensory integration etc. The brain is not *just* the seat of our consciousness, it is constantly multitasking on a number of levels for function, stress, and complexity.

If you read the fMRI studies you'll find that at some point, under a full 24/7 period and varied levels of differing tasks, you basically use all of your neurons at least *some* of the time.

That doesn't suggest they are trained to their limits of function, pushed to their maximum capacity, or all in use simultaneously. In fact why should it mean that?

To apply the computer metaphor you used earlier if we ran our brains with "the pedal to the metal" so to speak, we should probably expect us to lock up and freeze just like a computer does. In fact we do as a form of *panic*.

The brain can suffer from a variety of input overloads from the purely sensory to the subtly psychological. The result is often the experience of some form of mental lock up.

I also happen to agree that basically there is very little *wasted* function or even *effort* as evolution tends to select against waste as an inherent vulnerability when *fitness* is a measured by *efficiency*. In this respect however culture and environment are qualitatively separate adaptive pressures, sometimes even in competition with each other.

[Infernity]

kraemahz- thanks alot, yeah it did clear this up for me, thanks.
Lazarus- I seem to have so much to learn, thank you so much for breaking that myth I fell for.
I want all to know I am so glad to be a member of ImmInst and I felt overwhelmed when I saw finaly my post being applied seriously. [thumb]
I have so much to read, to learn, to enrich my education, to widening of my horizons, etcetera, and thanks for that transcendent community I will definitely increase my knowledge .
Best regards

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[stevethegreat]

Steve,
Hmmm, I was fascinating by all the greeks history and myths, I always found it quite interesting although I never belived the supernatural parts...
Forgive me for being a little bit skeptic about that little piece of information. I shall belive you as for what you feel; but as for the technical details I shall check when I'm a bit more mature and it would be pragmatically possible for me to travel on my own.
Anyway, thanks for the information, I'll respect that.
There are lots of unexplained unearthly phenomena, indeed.

Yours
~Infernity

Don't get me wrong I am a strong rationalist, I don't believe a word of Greek myths I just want to say is that sth may happen that we have not discovered. The most of us prefer to believe that the Jesus' miracles, for example, never existed (I'm one of them) however how are we so sure? Science demonstrated us that everyrting we believe at a given time the most probable is to be wrong in the future times.

[olaf.larsson]

There is no way that you can use only 10% of your brain. If that would be true the other 90% would have dissapeared by natural selection long time ago since it is a disadvatage to maintain systems that have no use.

[Infernity]

Well wolfram, that explains alot... )
Thanks

~Infernity

[Infernity]

I did read a bit more about it, now I feel a little embarrassed of being slightly silly and for falling for that myth... :\
At least I got some respondences, which I was waitnig for... [thumb]
Heh, anyway thanks [sweat] , after all I am still human, I'm also having few mistakes, happens to the best of us...

By the way, Jay, when I think about it, you cannot compare a computer system to the human's brain system; The computer has limited abilities which I belive human don't. Indirectly- the humankind can do everything; The hard shall be done today and the impossible shall be done tomorrow...
Everything human does is natural because we are natural!
Contrary to all the animal known to us, that have speed or camouflage or toxic or power and so on, we have the most powerful and sophisticated element to help us survive - THE *brain*. Of course all these animals have brain too but our brain is the smartest. Our brain uses itself to seek and accomplish wiser ways to survive than the instinctively ways which are found in animals the most.
That is why everything we shall do (and so development) is natural! 'cause all we do is due to our very intelligent clever brain-system, which is how the nature created us (to be existed and survive and multiply...)- what makes us and all of our deeds natural.
Human's nature, pioneer, is to excel. To develop, to grow, to learn, to gett better, to become refined and to widen of horizons. Eventually, the human's nature is to overpower the reality's nature, rise above it, and control.

Yours
~Infernity

Edited by infernity, 10 March 2005 - 11:38 AM.

[lynx]

On a related note, the phenomenon known as synasthesia, in which a person experiences all of the world in full penta-sensory detail, can be an overwhelming condition. Shereshevsky, a Russian journalist, is the most famous example of a synasthete.He made use of his gift but also suffered from it sometimes. For example, when hearing certain voices or sounds he would be overwhelmed by a multi-sensory onrush of thought which made it impossible for him to concentrate.

So, using 100% of your brain could be hazardous to your mental health.

[Lazarus Long]

So now that we have dispelled one myth let's address some corollary questions.

What percent of brain function is specifically for memory, what types of memory, and how much memory *space* in this neural *net* is designated storage in proportion to all other available resources?

We might reference this thread and the web for contributions to the answers.

Brains, memory, and behavior

Is it valid to talk in terms of *percent* with respect to memory/cognizance/functional relationships for the brain?

Is each sensory loci storing its own percent of memory apart from higher memory?

I think it may be because of the ability to recall kinesthetic *feelings* like smell/sight/sound in relation to other associated complex memories or to have those sensations trigger the recall. Is to remember the wine, mean to be able to taste it?

Some complex memory appears to be encrypted onto prion like bodies that may represent a kind of compressed *data* but again these are only a part of a complex larger system and reflect only a small percent by volume of ass for the brain, though as the studies of Alzheimer's suggests do provide a highly critical function.

One of the hold overs of *phrenology,* which BTW drove much of the early spread of the myth that is the subject of this thread, directly relates to the use of simplistic volume/mass/functions assumptions that ignore the overriding importance of complexity for function.

We assume overall body/brain mass proportion to be the critical standard for intelligence, not a more defined and critical analysis of the actually percentage of function devoted to a task like cognition or the others. This is still an important measure in physical anthropology. Well that simplistic measure does have some merit but it starts going askew when you cross species.

But for our purposes it also starts going askew if we contemplate perhaps installing a *math chip* onto the hippocampus, or some kind of polymath/language translating dictionary. In fact the idea of being able to absorb uploaded data that can be accessed as an augment of our already existing neural net *learning ability* is a real possibility that I might have to depend on in thirty or fifty years, like an artificial heart, to sustain optimal and advanced cognitive function. But does even the access to the technology this *device offers alter how we must think of ourselves?

It definitely can't be understated here how significantly more complex, both the encryption as well as the storage/accessible media, of the higher memory (social/existential/structured) system of the brain is than perhaps its more short yet instinctive or limbic functional memory is for taste/smell and even the DNA.

Our *Mind* is a kind of subroutine of our DNA that is building on its own intelligence as a physiological function of our brains and seeking to favor itself as an advantage bestowing environmental fitness by success with Natural Selection challenges.

Here is where I always want to return memetics to the discussion. Yes the power of the myths of memes and memetic myths of mind; Minds, Memes and Human Selection.

I don't care what species is the primary vector for intelligence, there will always be at least one going up the food chain by developing intelligence in response to selection pressure. In fact I suggest probably more than one. Natural Selection ultimately is just a complex unending series of intelligence tests.

Intelligence is a logical imperative of function by virtue of the importance of *quality control* for *choice,* and choice is what underlies selection, whether for survival or mating.

I can recognize real intelligence in animals so for me the argument doesn't require aliens to be tested for validity. Here degree is all that matters. Human Selection is not merely a natural evolutionary challenge, it is how we are a real threat to ourselves. Never turn your eyes from the threat, never be afraid to learn but never underestimate the power of that knowledge.

Memetics is the process by which an intelligent vector species is challenged by its own success, by the very *potency* of the knowledge the species acquires and retains.

Retaining being the keyword (though having access is critical too) when understood as the long term species recollection normally seen as history, culture, language, ethics, art, science, technology, the living memory of experiential habitat and the sum of that species living perspectives creating *society* and sustaining the membership.

We are that species on Earth at this moment and that is why I discuss Human Selection as replacing Natural Selection and memes replacing genes as the dominant selection methodology for this planet.

OK that is enough fun speculating but the original questions stand.

[olaf.larsson]

So, using 100% of your brain could be hazardous to your mental health.

Oh please. The thing you are describing is a mental disorder characterised by the inability to sort impressions in no way is it "100% brain usage".

[lynx]

Oh please.  The thing you are describing is a mental disorder characterised by the inability to sort impressions in no way is it "100% brain usage".

Obviously you have some sort of mental disorder that is characterized by the inability to recognize a joke.

[Lazarus Long]

Obviously you have some sort of mental disorder that is characterized by the inability to recognize a joke

In all fairness to Wolfram Lynx, I do not believe English is his first language and that one probably just got by his translating ability. Wry wit (irony) is very difficult in translation even though it exists for all language.

It is one of the simplest examples of why even the idea of a universal translator polymath/language augment to the hippocampus that I suggested would still fall very short of true communicative and mathematical ability.

It would still however be an enormous leap forward for expanding the current boundaries of intelligence by providing highly advanced tools for those able to use them. Another wrung up the ladder toward Super Intelligence for our species. Especially if we added the possibility of wireless, long distance, non verbal/verbal complex communicative ability to the function, which would introduce a third critical *social* element for functional advanced intelligence.

[lynx]

Well then I apologise for being rude.

[Infernity]

One more question- is it true then that human brain uses only 6-10 percent of his memory cells for stowing memories...? I mean it sounds quite reasonable... I am just not sure.
Thanks

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[Lazarus Long]

That is basically one of the questions I asked too. Part of the problem is that we are still learning about how memory in the brain works and there are real differences in the mechanism of long and short term memory.

The difference between Long and Short term memory is a little like the difference in your computer between RAM/Caching chips and your Hard-drive. That is a little simplistic but conveys the basic idea that we may be looking at two very different cellular processes. Also how memory is encrypted, *networked* and accessed is also still being resolved by research and makes a good study to begin with infernity.

Do you have Google Scholar?
http://scholar.google.com/

It is worth using and you can then bring some of the results of your study here please.

[Infernity]

Hmmm I see...
Thanks anyway Lazarus, also for the Google Scholar, I actually didn't know about it existence, it seem to be new (

©2005 Google

)... if I would've know about it few weeks ago I think I would have use it quite alot for my school project I had; Heh everyone over my class did about some stupid-ass subjects, I did A mass on the Triumph of Life and the Conquest of Death [thumb] yeah, something like 40 pages in contra to 7 pages, heh... [sfty]
Anyway thanks, I wish I knew more about how the human brain works, unfortunately it hasn't been fully deciphered.


Alright thanks alot
Yours truthfully
~Infernity

P.s. Thank you so much, Daniel S. (inarchunite) for helping me so much with my mass, don't know what I would have done without you... Always
Yours truthfully
~Infernity

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Edited by infernity, 31 January 2005 - 07:05 PM.

[Trias]

my pleasure hun' [lol]