19 replies to this topic

[unregistered_user]

I just took 7mg selegiline and 70mcg MB. Anyone else ever try this? Any contraindications here? I think as long as I keep my deprenyl dose below 10mg it should be fine.

[manic_racetam]

I thought you discontinued MB due to heart sensations. What changed? Different dosage?

[unregistered_user]

Today I got a wild hair and decided to revisit low dosages. I took 2 doses of 70mcg and felt fine. Just being careful and looking for any noticeable benefits to see if MB is something worth keeping in my stack.

[manic_racetam]

You should be fine. Not only is the selegiline under the MAO-A levels the MB should be as well. (that's from my memory based on the monster MB thread we've all been watching)

[thedevinroy]

You should be fine. Not only is the selegiline under the MAO-A levels the MB should be as well. (that's from my memory based on the monster MB thread we've all been watching)

I wish people actually READ that thing. Yeah, it does a sucky job as inhibiting MAO-A. I got twitches at any dose over 60mg (not mcg). That's 1000x higher than the suggest nootropic dose, and in the region of mutational controversy. Your DNA can handle a lot of turmoil before things become mutagenic, so don't get scared unless you're using it above 5mg.

Methylene Blue's primary method of nootropic action is inhibition of mitochondrial complex IV and its ability to spare NAD (and FAD, indirectly) and enhance hydrogen (+ ion) transfer in the mitochondria. This happens at a much smaller concentration. Consequently, memories and functioning requiring mitochondrial resources get connected faster... this is suspected to be enhanced by other mitochondrial stimulants such as Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Arginine, and Creatine. I notice an almost immediate improvement in everyday cognitive functioning especially a strangely fast recall and conclusions.

That's MethyB in a nut shell.

Selegiline inhibits more than just MAO-B, if I remember correctly. Other enzymes, plus receptors... it's also a pro-drug of amphetamine and methamphetamine, meaning that it has those two compounds as metabolites. Not sure the percentage of conversion. If you want to narrow down just MAO-B, then you shouldn't be taking that much for that long. 3mg every other day from what I've been reading. I've still got some more research to do on the compound before I convince my pysch to try me on it for ADHD.

[thedevinroy]

Apparently, a lot of Selegiline turns into methamphetamine.

http://www.mylantech...R8_Exhibit.ashx

However, it is the inactive L-isomer. The L-isomer of amphetamine is still slightly (1/3 as active) active, so may be a little stimulating. Did you notice any amphetamine-like stimulation from Selegiline?

Edited by devinthayer, 04 October 2011 - 01:05 AM.

[manic_racetam]

You should be fine. Not only is the selegiline under the MAO-A levels the MB should be as well. (that's from my memory based on the monster MB thread we've all been watching)

Selegiline inhibits more than just MAO-B, if I remember correctly. Other enzymes, plus receptors... it's also a pro-drug of amphetamine and methamphetamine, meaning that it has those two compounds as metabolites. Not sure the percentage of conversion. If you want to narrow down just MAO-B, then you shouldn't be taking that much for that long. 3mg every other day from what I've been reading. I've still got some more research to do on the compound before I convince my pysch to try me on it for ADHD.

Don't know about the other enzymes but chronic sub 10mg doses will eventually stop being selective for MAO-B, in the brain at least.

L-Deprenyl (the selegiline commonly used as a nootropic round these parts) is a pro-drug for Levo-amphetamine and Levo-methamphetamine, the non-stimulating r-enantiomers of the amphetamines. Levo-methamphetamine is found in Vick's nasal inhalers.

D-Deprenyl is the the opposite enantiomer, which metabolizes into the stimulating amphetamine and methamphetamine and has abuse potential. D-Deprenyl doesn't seem to be specifically controlled or directly illegal but could be considered an analogue of scheduled substance in the US (and likely in many other countries too).

D-Deprenyl is available from a dodgy looking cameroon supplier, but it seems like it would be likely to cause hypotensive crisis quite easily with MAO-A+B inhibition plus metabolites of active amphetamines (at least that would be my guess). Also, with abuse potential it would probably be difficult to avoid taking dangerously high doses... generally bad idea.

I kind of went on a Selegiline research rampage today. Oh, in case you guys were wondering, selegiline can cause a positive for amphetamines in drug-tests but can be proved negative by gas chromatography of the "sample" (with the gas chromatography they can identify it as levomethamphetamine).

[unregistered_user]

I take the Liquid Dep found at IAS and yes, at higher dosages (5mg+) I get a stimulating effect. It creates a mild anxiety and I get some toe twitches like I got when taking Adderral. The stimulation is nowhere near as profound, however.

I've been pretty liberal with my deprenyl dosing because the effects are so subtle. I frequently come close to 8mg or more per day. I understand MAO-B inhibition is only selective under 10mg and seeing as deprenyl seems to be cumulative when it comes to its presence in the body, I would imagine I have surpassed that threshold after many weeks of taking near 10mg/day.

I haven't experienced any ADRs yet and have even kept up with my cardio and weight lifting sessions.

Do I need to be really careful here? Perhaps I will restrict my deprenyl dosing to like 2mg every other day. I'm surprised I allowed myself to get to such "high" dosages but after reading numerous posts on here, I decided hovering around 10mg or less per day would be alright. My initial research suggested a drop, MAYBE 2, per day, was the way to go with selegiline but I guess because the effects were so difficult to detect I decided to push the boundaries a little.

So far I'm feeling good though. I just don't want to be doing anything stupid. Just because something bad hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it still can't.

[manic_racetam]

I take the Liquid Dep found at IAS and yes, at higher dosages (5mg+) I get a stimulating effect. It creates a mild anxiety and I get some toe twitches like I got when taking Adderral. The stimulation is nowhere near as profound, however.

I've been pretty liberal with my deprenyl dosing because the effects are so subtle. I frequently come close to 8mg or more per day. I understand MAO-B inhibition is only selective under 10mg and seeing as deprenyl seems to be cumulative when it comes to its presence in the body, I would imagine I have surpassed that threshold after many weeks of taking near 10mg/day.

I haven't experienced any ADRs yet and have even kept up with my cardio and weight lifting sessions.

Do I need to be really careful here? Perhaps I will restrict my deprenyl dosing to like 2mg every other day. I'm surprised I allowed myself to get to such "high" dosages but after reading numerous posts on here, I decided hovering around 10mg or less per day would be alright. My initial research suggested a drop, MAYBE 2, per day, was the way to go with selegiline but I guess because the effects were so difficult to detect I decided to push the boundaries a little.

So far I'm feeling good though. I just don't want to be doing anything stupid. Just because something bad hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it still can't.

Are you taking the drops sublingually? I'm pretty sure that sublingual doses are much more potent and correspond to lower recommended dosages (lower thresh-hold for MAO-B selectivity). I remember seeing a chart that had sublingual and equivalent oral dosages but can't seem to find it after a quick search.

[Jq82]

Though off topic I do find a mix of Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Adderall and M.B. is a very effective regimen and acts immediate.

Edited by Jq82, 04 October 2011 - 01:45 AM.

[unregistered_user]

I take the Liquid Dep found at IAS and yes, at higher dosages (5mg+) I get a stimulating effect. It creates a mild anxiety and I get some toe twitches like I got when taking Adderral. The stimulation is nowhere near as profound, however.

I've been pretty liberal with my deprenyl dosing because the effects are so subtle. I frequently come close to 8mg or more per day. I understand MAO-B inhibition is only selective under 10mg and seeing as deprenyl seems to be cumulative when it comes to its presence in the body, I would imagine I have surpassed that threshold after many weeks of taking near 10mg/day.

I haven't experienced any ADRs yet and have even kept up with my cardio and weight lifting sessions.

Do I need to be really careful here? Perhaps I will restrict my deprenyl dosing to like 2mg every other day. I'm surprised I allowed myself to get to such "high" dosages but after reading numerous posts on here, I decided hovering around 10mg or less per day would be alright. My initial research suggested a drop, MAYBE 2, per day, was the way to go with selegiline but I guess because the effects were so difficult to detect I decided to push the boundaries a little.

So far I'm feeling good though. I just don't want to be doing anything stupid. Just because something bad hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it still can't.

Are you taking the drops sublingually? I'm pretty sure that sublingual doses are much more potent and correspond to lower recommended dosages (lower thresh-hold for MAO-B selectivity). I remember seeing a chart that had sublingual and equivalent oral dosages but can't seem to find it after a quick search.

I started off doing sublingual doses the first few weeks but didn't notice anything really so I just started dropping them into my morning OJ. I also read that sublingual doses convert differently and so the amphetamine effects aren't felt. I might go back to doing 1-2mg/day sublingually.

[computeTHIS]

The reason that I haven't gone up to 10mg of selegiline is because I believe the brain will compensate by producing less dopamine. The first few days on 5mg I had a "dopamine high" as well as incredibly high libido and social drive. While these effects have mostly subsided, I now feel like a pretty normally functioning individual which is what I want. If you are looking for some sort of dopamine stimulation, I would suggest something like bupropion, which is what I think I will be trying after reading through the web about this combo. As of yet I don't see the efficacy of using MAO-A inhibitors. One report suggests combining selegiline with ritalin: addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61922

[Sartac]

Would either MB or selegiline theoretically be better as far as stress on the liver? I'm stopping all supplements, except for D3 and K2 mk4, and will take NAC for a while. Liver values have been high for quite a while and I'm waiting on the latest report to arrive in the mail for specifics.

[thedevinroy]

I believe MAO-A and MAO-B are in the blood stream, not just the liver. Selegiline is broken down by P450 enzymes, too. However at nootropic doses, I'm not sure either would have a strong effect on the liver. If you were taking 100mg of something, I could see that as a potential problem... but both these drugs are so minute, I wouldn't worry about it.

Edited by devinthayer, 05 October 2011 - 12:29 AM.

[unregistered_user]

I tried bupropion and didn't care for it. I was surprised, after everything I read I thought I would've found it to be more effective but I actually had less of a sex drive and felt emotionally blunted.

[timjeezy]

I tried bupropion and didn't care for it. I was surprised, after everything I read I thought I would've found it to be more effective but I actually had less of a sex drive and felt emotionally blunted.

I got a script for bupropion recently to help me quit smoking cigs. I only took this drug for one week and then stopped. Bupriopion made me feel quite blunted, almost like a zombie. I did not feel good or bad, but felt "out of it" and got angry easily. It did make nicotine a lot less rewarding and I was still smoking when on it the whole time. I know one week is not a whole lot of time to know if a drug works for you, but I decided this was not going to work for me.

I did end up quitting smoking ( ), but this was with the help of good ole piracetam & choline. The smart drugs helped me skip through the anxiety/depression/adhd from lack of nicotine with ease. So far I have been taking piracetam and choline for a month and it has been amazing for me, especially with regards to reducing my social anxiety.

[Baten]

I did end up quitting smoking ( ), but this was with the help of good ole piracetam & choline. The smart drugs helped me skip through the anxiety/depression/adhd from lack of nicotine with ease. So far I have been taking piracetam and choline for a month and it has been amazing for me, especially with regards to reducing my social anxiety.

Welcome to the forums, and good to hear you managed to quit smoking.

[Nootr]

Guys, do you know where to buy D-deprenyl? Has anyone tried D-form? One physician has told me that D-form is more active for dopamine while L-form is more active for norepinephrine.

[panhedonic]

Is Jumex D-Deprenyl or L-Deprenyl?

J-Deprenyl?

[chemicalambrosia]

Is Jumex D-Deprenyl or L-Deprenyl?

J-Deprenyl?

It is l-deprenyl (selegeline). I searched for D-deprenyl and couldn't find any readily available anywhere. I don't know if it is even manufactured by any pharmaceutical companies. I'm guessing if it becomes available it will be as a research chemical. I'm sure it could be synthesized easily enough if there was interest in it.