• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In    
  • Create Account
  LongeCity
              Advocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans

Photo
* * * * - 2 votes

Methylene Blue and MAO Inhibition


  • Please log in to reply
104 replies to this topic

#1 rwac

  • Member
  • 4,764 posts
  • 61
  • Location:Dimension X

Posted 28 June 2009 - 04:15 AM


I just observed the MAO Inhibition effect of MB first hand.

I took 1 mg of MB and 100 mg of 5-htp last night. This resulted in me sleeping for 9 hrs as opposed to my usual 6-7 (with 60mcg MB)

1 mg of MB must have some MAOI effect.

From the following graph, it seems like 100nM (=1mg log()=-7) Inhibits MAO-A to a certain extent, while 6nM(=60mcg log()=-8.2) does not.

Graph from http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=2078225

Figure
Dose–response curves for the inhibition of MAO A (left) and MAO B (right) by methylene blue (MB). MAO A (122Posted ImagenM) was assayed spectrophotometrically with 0.3Posted ImagemM (2 × Km) kynuramine, and 25 concentrations of MB (some points omitted for clarity). MAO B was assayed polarographically with 0.6Posted ImagemM (2 × Km) benzylamine.

Attached Files



#2 tlm884

  • Guest
  • 597 posts
  • -0
  • Location:Saskatoon, Sk

Posted 21 December 2009 - 03:11 AM

Is it safe to take Methylene Blue while taking an SSRI/SNRI?

sponsored ad

  • Advert

#3 rwac

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • 4,764 posts
  • 61
  • Location:Dimension X

Posted 21 December 2009 - 04:42 AM

Is it safe to take Methylene Blue while taking an SSRI/SNRI?


It may not work well with SRIs. There's a report of problems using MB in combination with 1.25mg deprenyl.

http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=33981

#4 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 21 December 2009 - 05:04 AM

Is it safe to take Methylene Blue while taking an SSRI/SNRI?

It may not work well with SRIs. There's a report of problems using MB in combination with 1.25mg deprenyl.

http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=33981

That might have been it, but the guy was taking ten other noots along with the deprenyl.

#5 tlm884

  • Guest
  • 597 posts
  • -0
  • Location:Saskatoon, Sk

Posted 21 December 2009 - 05:10 AM

Is it safe to take Methylene Blue while taking an SSRI/SNRI?

It may not work well with SRIs. There's a report of problems using MB in combination with 1.25mg deprenyl.

http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=33981

That might have been it, but the guy was taking ten other noots along with the deprenyl.


I want to do a trial of MB at 1mcg for a few weeks. But I am on Lexapro and Strattera.

#6 Declmem

  • Guest
  • 315 posts
  • 11

Posted 21 December 2009 - 05:23 AM

Is it safe to take Methylene Blue while taking an SSRI/SNRI?

It may not work well with SRIs. There's a report of problems using MB in combination with 1.25mg deprenyl.

http://www.imminst.o...showtopic=33981

That might have been it, but the guy was taking ten other noots along with the deprenyl.


I want to do a trial of MB at 1mcg for a few weeks. But I am on Lexapro and Strattera.


I'm on lexapro and I took a lot more than that for about a month. Didn't get much out of it, at least nothing I felt subjectively. But it didn't do anything negative either.

#7 okok

  • Guest
  • 340 posts
  • 239

Posted 16 June 2010 - 12:02 PM


Uh oh, beg to differ. Especially with MB it is important and (potentially life-safing) to know your supps. Methylene Blue is a Potent MAOI-A Inhibitor. Taking with SSRI's and the like is absolutely contra-indicated and can lead to Serotonin Syndrome, there have been fatalities. Google says: http://www.psychotro..._toxicity.shtml.

  • like x 1
  • dislike x 1
  • Ill informed x 1

#8 maxwatt

  • Guest, Moderator LeadNavigator
  • 4,948 posts
  • 1,623
  • Location:New York

Posted 16 June 2010 - 02:53 PM

<table border cellpadding="10" ><td>Uh oh, beg to differ. Especially with MB it is important and (potentially life-safing) to know your supps. Methylene Blue is a Potent MAOI-A Inhibitor. Taking with SSRI's and the like is absolutely contra-indicated and can lead to Serotonin Syndrome, there have been fatalities. Google says: http://www.psychotro..._toxicity.shtml.
</td>
</table>


At a 60 microgram dose, would serum levels of MB be sufficient to induce Serotonin Toxicity (ST)? The doses used medically are orders of magnitude greater than the microgram dose many of us have been taking based on a single paper showing a positive effect on mitochondrial function I'd be surprised if this 60 mcg dose which 8bitmore was using would show enough MAO-A antagonist activity to induce ST, especially as it is a reversible antagonist.

#9 okok

  • Guest
  • 340 posts
  • 239

Posted 16 June 2010 - 07:12 PM

This is not to put anyone off MB, i just felt a warning might be warranted as i saw the article. There is wide variation in individual biochemistry, and MAOI's are notorious for drug and food interactions. I can only guess, but the issue being enzyme inhibition may partially account for low dosage sensitivity. 8bitmore's symptoms suspiciously sound like ST.

Edited by okok, 16 June 2010 - 07:14 PM.


#10 8bitmore

  • Guest
  • 344 posts
  • 110

Posted 16 June 2010 - 10:28 PM

This is not to put anyone off MB, i just felt a warning might be warranted as i saw the article. There is wide variation in individual biochemistry, and MAOI's are notorious for drug and food interactions. I can only guess, but the issue being enzyme inhibition may partially account for low dosage sensitivity. 8bitmore's symptoms suspiciously sound like ST.


Thanks for pointing to article about ST in relation to MB; forgot to mention in my initial report above that I also had a sort of 'flash-fever' come on at the same time as being violently sick and shaking. Again it, like rest of my symptoms, also went by next day (morning) but all in all I would say that due caution is probably never a bad idea. I for one is off the blue lady for now.

Random thought: I digest cheese badly for some reason, causes skin issues..etc. yet I eat it for periods anyway; perhaps the the whole episode could be from some sort of odd tyramine versus MAOI reaction in my lactase challenged body? This is pure conjecture, just me trying to think/share-thinking about the whole experience.

#11 rwac

  • Topic Starter
  • Member
  • 4,764 posts
  • 61
  • Location:Dimension X

Posted 16 June 2010 - 10:38 PM

perhaps the the whole episode could be from some sort of odd tyramine versus MAOI reaction


Hmm. When I was taking MB, I had an odd reaction to eating liver. Felt extremely relaxed for a few days.
Liver is also rich in tyramine ...

#12 tintinet

  • Guest
  • 1,965 posts
  • 501
  • Location:ME

Posted 17 June 2010 - 02:02 AM

I have an odd reaction just thinking about eating liver!
  • like x 4

#13 nupi

  • Guest
  • 1,532 posts
  • 107
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 23 June 2011 - 01:31 AM

Sounds like it could be very effective in combination with CBT then... Is there any indication of how strong the MAOI properties are? But I guess even if they are relatively weak, mixing with other AD will be a big nono...

#14 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 23 June 2011 - 01:47 AM

Sounds like it could be very effective in combination with CBT then... Is there any indication of how strong the MAOI properties are? But I guess even if they are relatively weak, mixing with other AD will be a big nono...

At this dose, it would have to be a phenomenally potent MAOI to have an impact. Considering the doses that are used therapeutically in other contexts, this seems unlikely.

#15 nupi

  • Guest
  • 1,532 posts
  • 107
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:06 AM

http://www.psychotro..._toxicity.shtml seems to have a lot on Methylene Blue and its MAOI properties (although it focus on Serotonin Toxicity observed in what appear to be much higher dosages). The conclusion is interesting:


Methylthioninium chloride (methylene blue) is safe.
Mixing it with SRIs causes serotonin toxicity: so cease SRIs, with appropriate washout periods, beforehand.
Make sure you know the following drugs which are in fact significant serotonin reuptake inhibitors from (7), table 2. Paroxetine, sertraline, fluoxetine, fluvoxamine, citalopram. Venlafaxine, milnacipran, duloxetine, sibutramine, Clomipramine, imipramine. Tramadol, meperidine (pethidine), dextromethorphan, dextropropoxyphene pentazocine (fentanil is unlikely to be significantly serotonergic in usual doses), Chlorpheniramine, brompheniramine.
Remember patients may forget to mention drugs recently ceased. Because fluoxetine has an elimination half-life of up to 7+ days it may be present in significant amounts more than one month after cessation.
Be aware of the signs and symptoms of serotonin toxicity and how to treat it and be aware that post-anaesthetic cases present with modified signs and symptoms.
The ‘corrected’ % of patients experiencing a reaction (see above) may be as high as 50% - 75%.
The question of interactions between opioid analgesics (pethidine, tramadol, fentanyl etc) and MAOIs is dealt with in another of my reviews (20).
The MHRA warning is in need of revision.
Other agencies (including professional associations and colleges) need to get organised in a timely fashion and issue guidance.


What may be even more important: He lists Dextrometorphan which is fairly widely used as cough suppressant (I honestly had no idea it had serotonergic effects but considering it can be strong hallucinogen its not altogether surprising now that I think of it).

Edited by nupi, 23 June 2011 - 05:09 AM.


#16 aaron43

  • Guest
  • 143 posts
  • 13
  • Location:California

Posted 23 June 2011 - 06:09 AM

http://www.psychotropical.com/methblue_toxicity.shtml seems to have a lot on Methylene Blue and its MAOI properties (although it focus on Serotonin Toxicity observed in what appear to be much higher dosages). The conclusion is interesting:


Methylthioninium chloride (methylene blue) is safe.
Mixing it with SRIs causes serotonin toxicity: so cease SRIs, with appropriate washout periods, beforehand.
Make sure you know the following drugs which are in fact significant serotonin reuptake inhibitors from (7), table 2. Paroxetine, sertraline, fluoxetine, fluvoxamine, citalopram. Venlafaxine, milnacipran, duloxetine, sibutramine, Clomipramine, imipramine. Tramadol, meperidine (pethidine), dextromethorphan, dextropropoxyphene pentazocine (fentanil is unlikely to be significantly serotonergic in usual doses), Chlorpheniramine, brompheniramine.
Remember patients may forget to mention drugs recently ceased. Because fluoxetine has an elimination half-life of up to 7+ days it may be present in significant amounts more than one month after cessation.
Be aware of the signs and symptoms of serotonin toxicity and how to treat it and be aware that post-anaesthetic cases present with modified signs and symptoms.
The ‘corrected’ % of patients experiencing a reaction (see above) may be as high as 50% - 75%.
The question of interactions between opioid analgesics (pethidine, tramadol, fentanyl etc) and MAOIs is dealt with in another of my reviews (20).
The MHRA warning is in need of revision.
Other agencies (including professional associations and colleges) need to get organised in a timely fashion and issue guidance.


What may be even more important: He lists Dextrometorphan which is fairly widely used as cough suppressant (I honestly had no idea it had serotonergic effects but considering it can be strong hallucinogen its not altogether surprising now that I think of it).


You bring up a good point about the SSRI's, if I was gonna take MB I would not be taking any re-uptake inhibitory of any kind. Serotonin toxicity is more common than you think, there are a few things that can casue it look it up, I guess you can just add this to that list. Dextromethorphan is a cough suppressant/dissociative (similiar to pcp). When you drink half a big bottle of DXM syrup you trip through seratonin re-uptake inhibitor and another mechanism I dont want to get into. This I would definetly avoid. But i do question the amount of dxm that is consumed in normal cough syrup dosing if it has enough bio availability to act with the very small dose of MB present for a nootropic dose to cause any harm. MB has a half-life of 5 hours as well, so either way you could take MB in the morning and take dxm at night and have no reaction at all, that is if any reaction would happen in the first place. This is the main and only thing I believe you have to worry about MB.

Stuff like tramadol is common pain killer that could get mixed up, its a seratonin norepenephrine re-uptake inhibitor and opiate agonist(there nice) but again, they are a re-uptake inhibitor and to be safe should not be mixed.

Weed is nice. When I was high, I thought, isn't weird how this blue dye is the color of the sky. I think it's crazy how colors can make such an effect on the body

Edited by aaron43, 23 June 2011 - 06:26 AM.


#17 nupi

  • Guest
  • 1,532 posts
  • 107
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 23 June 2011 - 12:22 PM

I doubt I want to go off the Wellbutrin just now. I've been on it for a month and mood wise it has been a significant improvement, now I basically need something that makes me more social. The reports of Methylene Blue making people strike up conversations with random strangers (one of the few things I absolutely cannot do - next to asking out girls I actually like [1]) sounded really promising there but the risk seems to be definitely there. So I guess I need to find something else...

Maybe I will email that doc who wrote that article.

As for DXM, I know it is a dissociative (kind of like Ketamin). I tried it once or twice in my teens at 300 and 450mg and absolutely hated the effects although some of my friends seemed to quite enjoy it.

[1] I have no problem in dealing with the ones I do not particularly like - well up to heavy make out sessions...

#18 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:57 AM

Sounds like it could be very effective in combination with CBT then... Is there any indication of how strong the MAOI properties are? But I guess even if they are relatively weak, mixing with other AD will be a big nono...

At this dose, it would have to be a phenomenally potent MAOI to have an impact. Considering the doses that are used therapeutically in other contexts, this seems unlikely.

Are you referring to the mixture of other AD's or the MAOI power. I don't think I can provide another study except the ones that already says it Methylene blue facilitates the extinction of fear in an animal model of susceptibility to learned helplessness and Extinction Memory Improvement by the Metabolic Enhancer Methylene Blue. If there is studies that says it does, and I personally experience it when I take 60 micrograms, then how does it seem unlikely? There is academic evdince plus anecdotal evidence (even tho there is a lack of evidence at the correct dosage), it must mean there is something too it

Additional information: besides taking it again today and receiving great benefits again, and at one point in the day it really felt like i wanted to tell the world that "If you ever feel like your being held back and not able to show off your full potential that you have, this is your answer". I sware I texted that too myself so I could write it again here. All I took today was 2 dosings of 60 micrograms MB, 1 dose 2g piracetam, 1g aniracetam, R-ala, and 2g Alcar, + multivitamin. Believe it. If you don't, then sucks i guess.

Hi aaron43, thanks for posting your experiences with MB. I was referring to the idea that we shouldn't mix 60ug doses of MB with SSRIs. I think that 60ug is far to low a dose for its MAOI inhibition to present a danger when combined with serotonin-raising compounds, even though MB is a relatively potent MAOI. Ramsay et al. find that MB has an IC50 for MAO A of 164 nM. Ramsay's paper is in regards to the danger of combining MB with antidepressants, but they are talking about huge doses, like 100mg taken intravenously. That would be like taking a gram orally. As a back of the envelope calculation considering the blood level of MB produced by taking 60ug i.v., 60ug MB * (um MB/320 ug MB) / 5 litres blood = 37.5nM. This is well under the IC50 for the enzyme, so you would retain most of your MAO A activity. With oral dosing, you would have yet another factor of ten (-ish) margin of safety.

Bottom line: While MB is an MAO A inhibitor at high doses, 60ug isn't enough to get a dangerous MAO A inhibition. I don't doubt that you are feeling something from low dose MB. Have you tried it by itself, without the noots?

#19 thedevinroy

  • Guest
  • 1,186 posts
  • 325
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 28 June 2011 - 02:00 PM

I love being a devil's advocate, but not today. Methylene Blue as an MAOI at the dose Aaron is taking is subtle to say the least. 60mcg of a REVERSIBLE MAOI is unlikely to cause any adverse side effects like a hypomanic state. The effects of Methylene Blue are primarily inhibiting enzymes related to aging, boosting mitochondria health back into a youthful state. This is not antidepressant medication, but an anti-aging chemical. Methylene Blue can be an MAOI, but maybe at a level much higher than he is taking now (like as much as 0.25mg).

Molecular Weight: 319.85 g/mol
Active MOAI A at: 27nM/L (source) ("...very potent inhibitor of MAO A with a Ki of 27nM...")
Blood Stream Volume: 6L

319.85 * 27 * (10^(-9)) * 6 = 5.18157 × 10-5

So an injection of 52mcg would have some MAOI effect. An ingestion of 60mcg would probably not yield a grand effect on MAO inhibition, seeing how the digestive system would release it at a decreasing rate for 2-4 hours.

Edited by devinthayer, 28 June 2011 - 02:59 PM.


#20 thedevinroy

  • Guest
  • 1,186 posts
  • 325
  • Location:USA
  • NO

Posted 28 June 2011 - 03:16 PM

So an injection of 52mcg would have some MAOI effect. An ingestion of 60mcg would probably not yield a grand effect on MAO inhibition, seeing how the digestive system would release it at a decreasing rate for 2-4 hours.

Does anyone have a bell curve of plasma levels and oral doses? That would be bomb.

Just a side note, the Ki concentration means that 50% of enzymes are inhibited.

Not sure how 50% would compare to the effectiveness of harmala alkaloids like in a coffee, cigarette, dark chocolate, Caapi, or Syrian Rue. Also, does anyone have any data on the length of time the enzyme is inhibited for Methylene Blue? It may be comparable to a substrate (like PEA or hordenine) since it temporarily binds to the active site, but this science is completely new to me...so someone else verify for me.

#21 aaron43

  • Guest
  • 143 posts
  • 13
  • Location:California

Posted 28 June 2011 - 06:15 PM

Watch out for hypomania. MAOIs, tend to do that. I know that this board has had hypomanic outbursts from people taking deprenyl and othr MAOIs, etc. Be aware of what your baseline personality is. If you start to get a bit too grandiose, you might want to cut back a little. Hypomania is not really being more intelligent, but it's easy to mistake it for such.


Actually my first thought was this.

Speed ​​Blindness is a person's impairment in the ability to judge speed, when you've travelled at high speeds.

Speed ​​Blindness can be a safety risk, particularly when a driver leaves the road at high speed and enters the urban area.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypomania
This was my second worry, I would go on a lighter dosage! The condition is a serious condition! You just need a slight advance to treat your problems, don´t go overboard.


I would correctly describe it as what you said by speed blindness, but only temporary and it seems to be without that feel of when you get off the freeway and since you are used to going fast your body sometimes pushes the peddle to hard on residential streets. Its gone now (the next morning). It was really only visably apparent and obvious going high speeds in a car, I didn't see such a dramatic effect in regular activities due to the monotony of the speed, but I did notice differences


I love being a devil's advocate, but not today. Methylene Blue as an MAOI at the dose Aaron is taking is subtle to say the least. 60mcg of a REVERSIBLE MAOI is unlikely to cause any adverse side effects like a hypomanic state. The effects of Methylene Blue are primarily inhibiting enzymes related to aging, boosting mitochondria health back into a youthful state. This is not antidepressant medication, but an anti-aging chemical. Methylene Blue can be an MAOI, but maybe at a level much higher than he is taking now (like as much as 0.25mg).

Molecular Weight: 319.85 g/mol
Active MOAI A at: 27nM/L (source) ("...very potent inhibitor of MAO A with a Ki of 27nM...")
Blood Stream Volume: 6L

319.85 * 27 * (10^(-9)) * 6 = 5.18157 × 10-5

So an injection of 52mcg would have some MAOI effect. An ingestion of 60mcg would probably not yield a grand effect on MAO inhibition, seeing how the digestive system would release it at a decreasing rate for 2-4 hours.


Good post. ya like you said MB is a selective MAO-A inhibitor. Another selective MAO-A inhibitor is Resveratrol. Here is a list from wiki, scroll to the bottom, you can compare methylene blue to other medication selective MAO-A inhibitors or the herbal inhibitors. http://en.wikipedia....r#List_of_MAOIs . The mode of action for an MAO-A inhibitor is MAO-A inhibition reduces the breakdown of primarily serotonin, epinephrine, and norepinephrine and thus has a higher risk of serotonin syndrome and/or a hypertensive crisis when mixed with SSRI's. MB definetly has a sort of MAO-A effects when taken at 60 microgram dose, it is very apparent. But if it is the MAO-A causing my effects or not seems to be the case. You said I would need more MB for proper MAO-A inhibition to take place, yet the more I take of MB the less it works. If I take 60 micrograms or marginally lower I get great effects, but if I go much lower than it doesn't work as well either. I bring in the question if MAO activity has anything to do with the effects that I am experiencing. Note that I am not constantly happy, or un-naturally happy. I seem to be focused on what is always infront of me and my emotional state during the time is dependent on how well I do what is in front of me. When I do something that I deem correct, a connection seems to be made and I get this euphoria or even more increased energy.
So again we have to look at if the mechanism of an MAO is actually present is MB, and if it isn't another mechanism causing what I feel. And if it could be MAO, is there a difference in the potential of MAO-A inhibitors? Like would a small dose of a certain MAO-a inhibitor have the same effects as a weaker MAO-a inhibitor at higher doses? That I feel like we need to find out. But from what I have noticed, I can say that there is effects similar to an MAO-a inhibitor but without the side effects such as not eating cheese.

One thing I tried last night was I took a dose of MB right before bed. I slept like a log and had a very very deep sleep, after about 5 hours I woke up completely refreshed. Tho i had nothing to do so I went back to sleep lol.


The wiki page talks about serotonin toxicity at doses exceeding 5mg/kg (if mixed with SSRIs), so 60mcg shouldn't be a problem.

As much as I would like to confirm this with a pharmacist, I can't imaging striking up that conversation..."hey, I'd like to drink this fish tank stuff..." Umm... :wacko:


I want to agree with you but if there was a dangerous aspect, you could possibly be playing with fire, but if its a little flame or a forest fire is the question.

And lol you can tell the pharmacist that it's a die used too stain tumors before surgery, or used to treat malaria

Edited by aaron43, 28 June 2011 - 06:16 PM.


#22 aaron43

  • Guest
  • 143 posts
  • 13
  • Location:California

Posted 28 June 2011 - 09:52 PM

I found more information on on MAO concerns side effects:

Usually when people take MAO-A inhibitors, they have to really check their diet due to the "cheese effect" that is brought upon by increased tyramine consumption, which is found in cheese/ meats.

This is what I found out. Methylene Blue is in a different MAO-A inhibitor class called RIMA.

Methylene Blue: Redox dye. Reversible, MAO-A selective (RIMA). Related redox dyes (toluidine blue O, thionine, brilliant cresyl blue, toluylene blue) are also RIMAs (Ramsay et al., 2007; Oxenkrug et al., 2007).

- http://www.drugs-for...noamine_oxidase


And that RIMA MAO-A inhibitors Do Not need any dietary restrictions.

...a reversible inhibitor of monoamine oxidase A (RIMA), acts in a more short-lived and selective manner and does not require a special diet.
http://en.wikipedia..../Antidepressant


RIMA stands for a Reversible Inhibitor of Monoamine Oxidase A

I looked it up simply on wiki: to make it easy here is the link: http://en.wikipedia....amine_oxidase_A

It lists crises that could possibly happen with interactions of SSRI's or stimulants. Let me cool the speculation for "stimulants" first by saying #1 The dose for Methylene Blue is insanely small, just about too small for any negative reaction, #2 You don't need stimulants when you take this it provides more than enough clean energy on its own, and #3 I'v taken high doses of aniracetam which is considered a stimulant an did not have bad effects. I was up more and more alert but nothing near to where I felt anything personally negative, just maybe I get mad easier but it still subsides quickly and isn't considered rage or anything. I also have done a hefty amount of caffeine in one sitting, I felt great still, same increased alertness, I might get pissed a little easier but it doesn't feel un-normal and it subsides very quickly once my mind is off the subject that is getting me pissed. Usually Iv been getting pissed because I always envision things happening correctly in my mind but a lot of the time my brain won't account for variabilities that occur in the environment...its like I get pissed because the physical objects do not work in the optimal way that I envisioned them.

But other than that I haven't seen any negative effects. I would definitely not recommend taking adderall or anything with MB, even though I highly believe Methylene Blue can be very effective as opposed to adderall against ADD. That can be a situation that can only lead into a dangerous situation. It would just be excess anyway to take it with MB.

#23 DaneV

  • Guest
  • 98 posts
  • 6
  • Location:nl

Posted 29 June 2011 - 08:30 AM

Hmm so the main reason this stuff works is probably the MAOi effects. I wonder if it wouldn`t be better to try another, more known and researched reversable MAOi like moclobemide. I know I would be less worried taking this over MB because at least there is some solid research behind this med.

#24 aaron43

  • Guest
  • 143 posts
  • 13
  • Location:California

Posted 29 June 2011 - 10:37 AM

Hmm so the main reason this stuff works is probably the MAOi effects. I wonder if it wouldn`t be better to try another, more known and researched reversable MAOi like moclobemide. I know I would be less worried taking this over MB because at least there is some solid research behind this med.


Actually the exact opposite, I feel the main reason it works is not the MAO-A inhibitor effects, but other mechanisms that are explained in the studies. In any of these studies (which I would attribute to as summing up the nootropic benefits of MB) it has never been described in their studies that the MAO-A inhibitor is the main cause for these benefits, MB just happens to be a RIMA at higher doses:

Extinction Memory Improvement by the Metabolic Enhancer Methylene Blue

Methylene blue facilitates the extinction of fear in an animal model of susceptibility to learned helplessness

The Brain Metabolic Enhancer Methylene Blue Improves Discrimination Learning in Rats

Methylene blue improves brain oxidative metabolism and memory retention in rats
From last study:

(1) that low-level MB would enhance brain cytochrome c oxidation, as tested in vitro in brain homogenates and after in vivo administration to rats and (2) that corresponding low-dose MB would enhance spatial memory retention in normal rats, as tested 24 h after rats were trained in a baited holeboard maze for 5 days with daily MB posttraining injections. The biochemical in vitro studies showed an increased rate of brain cytochrome c oxidation with the low but not the high MB concentrations tested


  • like x 1

#25 nupi

  • Guest
  • 1,532 posts
  • 107
  • Location:Switzerland

Posted 29 June 2011 - 02:07 PM

I am interested in trying this, but nervous about mixing things with Wellbutrin given that it lowers seizure threshold...although at such a small dose I would hope there wouldn't be an interaction.

The wiki page talks about serotonin toxicity at doses exceeding 5mg/kg (if mixed with SSRIs), so 60mcg shouldn't be a problem.

As much as I would like to confirm this with a pharmacist, I can't imaging striking up that conversation..."hey, I'd like to drink this fish tank stuff..." Umm... :wacko:


I guess your best bet there would be to email the Doc who researched Methylene Blue and Serotonin Toxicity, if you do so, be sure to post the result because I sure want to know the exact same thing (interestingly, he does not list Bupropion as a potential risk but rechecking might not be a bad idea)...

#26 aaron43

  • Guest
  • 143 posts
  • 13
  • Location:California

Posted 19 July 2011 - 12:24 AM

I've been taking MB for about 2 weeks now. Usually just put a ~50mcg drop in my water bottle and sip it throughout my workday. That's probably too low a dose given that I usually nurse it for a couple of hours. So far haven't noticed anything concrete. Headaches the first 2-3 days, but that could've been unrelated. I do think it's raising my heart rate (synergy with wellbutrin?) I am not necessarily feeling more energetic but I am finding that I have been cleaning and organizing things like a robot, if that makes sense. Like once I start moving, there's a kind of momentum, and I just go and go, in a relaxed way. I don't know if I can attribute that to the MB, but either way, it's nice :)
I will keep taking it, maybe experiment with dose, see what transpires.


Just a recommendation, I have found the best effects by putting in between ~5-100 micrograms MB into a half cup of water, and then just downing the drink. Tastes just like water. But I feel that the effects are more pronounced that way, and allows for effective absorption in the stomach.
Welbutrin is a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Methylene Blue is a Reverisible Inhibitor of Monoamine oxidase A (RIMA), it differs from original MAOI because, unlike the original, there are no special dietary restrictions for RIMA's such as food containing tyramine ect. But I must warn that any sort of Reuptake Inhibitor with any type of MAOI, even though a RIMA, should be avoided as I, nor anyone else (correct me if Im wrong) does not know about what could happen. It is uncharted territory.
The same goes for adderall, tramadol and all other Reuptake Inhibitors

#27 snuffie

  • Guest
  • 52 posts
  • 10
  • Location:Canada
  • NO

Posted 19 July 2011 - 04:58 PM

Just a recommendation, I have found the best effects by putting in between ~5-100 micrograms MB into a half cup of water, and then just downing the drink. Tastes just like water. But I feel that the effects are more pronounced that way, and allows for effective absorption in the stomach.
Welbutrin is a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Methylene Blue is a Reverisible Inhibitor of Monoamine oxidase A (RIMA), it differs from original MAOI because, unlike the original, there are no special dietary restrictions for RIMA's such as food containing tyramine ect. But I must warn that any sort of Reuptake Inhibitor with any type of MAOI, even though a RIMA, should be avoided as I, nor anyone else (correct me if Im wrong) does not know about what could happen. It is uncharted territory.
The same goes for adderall, tramadol and all other Reuptake Inhibitors


thanks for the suggestion; sometimes i do that when i'm at home but i will have to try making a habit of it and see if it makes a difference. re. MAOI, i am a little wary of the combo but am hoping that the MB dose is too low to be doing much of anything...at any rate, if MB causes a slight bump in serotonin/norepinephrine/dopamine, that might not be so bad...when i think of the cocktail of crazy shit my psychiatrist had me on last year, i would think that this by comparison would be less likely to cause problems...but as you said, uncharted territory...

#28 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 19 July 2011 - 09:55 PM

Methylene Blue is a Reverisible Inhibitor of Monoamine oxidase A (RIMA), it differs from original MAOI because, unlike the original, there are no special dietary restrictions for RIMA's such as food containing tyramine ect. But I must warn that any sort of Reuptake Inhibitor with any type of MAOI, even though a RIMA, should be avoided as I, nor anyone else (correct me if Im wrong) does not know about what could happen. It is uncharted territory.
The same goes for adderall, tramadol and all other Reuptake Inhibitors

As with all biological effects of drugs, DOSE MATTERS. At sub-milligram doses, methylene blue is NOT a significant MAOI or RIMA. Please don't start a new internet paranoia here. If you are going to take a gram of it, then you can worry. There are one million micrograms in a gram.

#29 aaron43

  • Guest
  • 143 posts
  • 13
  • Location:California

Posted 20 July 2011 - 01:37 AM

Methylene Blue is a Reverisible Inhibitor of Monoamine oxidase A (RIMA), it differs from original MAOI because, unlike the original, there are no special dietary restrictions for RIMA's such as food containing tyramine ect. But I must warn that any sort of Reuptake Inhibitor with any type of MAOI, even though a RIMA, should be avoided as I, nor anyone else (correct me if Im wrong) does not know about what could happen. It is uncharted territory.
The same goes for adderall, tramadol and all other Reuptake Inhibitors

As with all biological effects of drugs, DOSE MATTERS. At sub-milligram doses, methylene blue is NOT a significant MAOI or RIMA. Please don't start a new internet paranoia here. If you are going to take a gram of it, then you can worry. There are one million micrograms in a gram.


lol internet paranoia? For telling people that mixing Methylene Blue for nootropic doses and any type of Reuptake Inhibitor is uncharted information? At really high doses, it does interact with RI's, and damage occurs. but it could be even taking MB at a nootropic dose over time with a RI could have some sort of culmative damage, but there is no data to confirm or deny this. But it is true that the dose level MATTERS. I have mentioned this many times throughout my posts in this forum, that the dosing for nootropic MB is small and that it shouldn't matter, but I am not going to be the one saying that this aspect of mixing RI's and MB should be overlooked. I'm not gonna take the responsibility of condoning mixing RI's and any type of MAIO, but again, I must say that the nootropic dose is so small that it most likely doesn't matter.
I feel like this is a friendly reminder

I have found an interesting synergy between MB and alcohol/benzos. It's something along the lines of great learning, but with zero stress involved, leading to new thoughts that may come up due to intoxication, but useful thoughts, smart thoughts, as if it is genuine information that is flowing out of the brain without any kind of restraint, and from that, interesting thoughts are formed and learned. With a proper mindset (not acting stupid while drunk), I found personally, this is a very interesting learning combination.

sponsored ad

  • Advert

#30 niner

  • Guest
  • 16,276 posts
  • 2,000
  • Location:Philadelphia

Posted 20 July 2011 - 02:58 AM

Methylene Blue is a Reverisible Inhibitor of Monoamine oxidase A (RIMA), it differs from original MAOI because, unlike the original, there are no special dietary restrictions for RIMA's such as food containing tyramine ect. But I must warn that any sort of Reuptake Inhibitor with any type of MAOI, even though a RIMA, should be avoided as I, nor anyone else (correct me if Im wrong) does not know about what could happen. It is uncharted territory.
The same goes for adderall, tramadol and all other Reuptake Inhibitors

As with all biological effects of drugs, DOSE MATTERS. At sub-milligram doses, methylene blue is NOT a significant MAOI or RIMA. Please don't start a new internet paranoia here. If you are going to take a gram of it, then you can worry. There are one million micrograms in a gram.

lol internet paranoia? For telling people that mixing Methylene Blue for nootropic doses and any type of Reuptake Inhibitor is uncharted information? At really high doses, it does interact with RI's, and damage occurs. but it could be even taking MB at a nootropic dose over time with a RI could have some sort of culmative damage, but there is no data to confirm or deny this. But it is true that the dose level MATTERS. I have mentioned this many times throughout my posts in this forum, that the dosing for nootropic MB is small and that it shouldn't matter, but I am not going to be the one saying that this aspect of mixing RI's and MB should be overlooked. I'm not gonna take the responsibility of condoning mixing RI's and any type of MAIO, but again, I must say that the nootropic dose is so small that it most likely doesn't matter.

Yes, internet paranoia. The kind of thing that gets passed around because someone read it somewhere, and pretty soon "everyone knows it". Fear based upon speculation, with no basis in evidence, and contrary to what is known about the pharmacokinetics and toxicity of methylene blue. The IC50 for MB inhibition of MAO-A is more than an order of magnitude higher than you will see with sub-milligram oral dosing. That means no MAO-A inhibition at these doses. Since it's a competitive inhibitor which a relatively short half life, no cumulative effect is likely. You may not understand these things, but there are people here who do. It's not uncharted territory. My main objection is that you are using scary language ("I must warn", "does not know what could happen") about this, with no qualification of it at all, when you should just say you don't know, or say nothing. If people are taking doses that are 10,000 times higher than a nootropic dose, (i.e., 600 milligrams) then a MAOI warning with scary language would be entirely appropriate.

Edited by niner, 20 July 2011 - 03:11 AM.

  • like x 4




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users