29 replies to this topic

[brokenportal]

Asking what is the meaning of life seems kind of like asking, “What is the significance of the buried city we are looking for”, if we don’t know what might or might not be in it. But nonetheless I think we can still say that the meaning of life is to know as much of the big picture of existence as you can come to want to know.

That though, doesn’t mean that it might not change once the “city” is dug up, once more of the big picture is uncovered. If we find some metaphorical “magical crystal skulls” in the city, like in the last Indiana Jones, then that will change what the meaning of the find was; in the same way where if we like, find that there are other dimensions out there in the universe and etc, it will change what the meaning of life was. So we know it means the chase, but we don’t completely know what the chase will end up meaning, or how much of it we will end up wanting.

The meaning of life is to find out the composition of existence. The meaning of life is to find out as much of the composition of existence as you can, that you can come to want. There is a big picture out there, and it seems we can come to want it from top to bottom, in all its dynamics and layers and angles and flavors and shades and pitches and amalgamations of sensations and experiences.

What does it mean to be alive? I think this is it isn't it?

Edited by brokenportal, 20 October 2011 - 07:20 PM.

[maxwatt]

The purpose of life, according to astronomical physicists, is to carboxylate hydrogen.

[TheFountain]

^^^ Sounds more like a commensurate outcome of impersonal processes than a meaning or 'purpose'.

[brokenportal]

Could you rephrase that? Im not sure Im understanding exactly what you mean.

[TheFountain]

Like a mathematical formula vs philosophization of actual 'purpose'.

[brokenportal]

I think I know what you mean. If it was say, a robot trying to take in as much of the big picture as it could, or trying to know more and more of the composition of existence, then I can see that would probably be the case there. With a person though, the experience is the purpose, the knowing, the finding out, the taking in of more and more of the big picture is the purpose. It is not only the extrapolation of philosophy, its also I guess you would say the science of philosophy, the testing of every notion through to full understanding, the 'finding of the composition of existence".

Im not talking about finding out the composition with like a microscope and litmus test. I mean finding out in all ways possible, for example to know all goals, pleasures, the nature of existence, how we got here, what all else is out there, etc.

[TheFountain]

To me it's finding the meaning in the extension of biological energy, as opposed to the suppression of it. Suppression is destructive to ones personal liberty and to ones power to find out their purpose, determinable by seeing life as a constant potential.

[brokenportal]

Right, I agree, that's what I mean by.

"The meaning of life is to find out as much of the composition of existence as you can, that you can come to want."

[hivemind]

No meaning in life. Life is an experience. Everything will end some day. -also the human race.

If you think something is important, it is so because you think so. In reality nothing has any meaning.

[brokenportal]

Life is an experience, that's right, and yes, experience means something. Being alive compels each person to try experience out. They cant help but try it. How much they will want will be up to them. Its amazing we find that the more understanding and control of their faculties that people have, the more they generally want.

So, life is an experience like you say. Experience is the discovery of the composition of things in any of a variety of ways. However much you want is what it means to be alive. Everybody could hypothetically want to know the big picture of existence. Hence, "The meaning of life is to find out as much of the composition of existence as you can, that you can come to want."

[hivemind]

That is an illusion called the ego. It is in every person's head. They have the need to feel unique, the need to make up a meaning for their lives, the need for more of something. More boost for the ego.

Edited by Trip, 21 October 2011 - 06:00 AM.

[brokenportal]

You might be right, or, experiencing as much stuff as we can come to want is just what it means to be alive. From what I can see, you could do that even if you didnt have any ego.

[Osphran]

To me the meaning of life is to maintain a maternal environment. This means adapting to and considering all relative systems to complete this task at optimal efficiency. The reason we do this is to create the optimal son... an offspring with optimal abilities allowing survival and further maintenance of the maternal environment. Immortality is an optimal state of existence. To maintain ones sanity throughout eons one also needs enlightenment. Think about genetics, all things that we feel are good are things that maintain a maternal environment. Until life drastically changes its nature during the ascension of man into optimal self-creation, maternity is the meaning to life.

[brokenportal]

Is it? Can you explain further? I can see that we can probably say that maternity is the portal, the mechanism through which life arrives here in existence. So, "maternity" seems to be the process of helping to set humanity up for a run at uncovering the full dynamic composition of existence.

[absent minded]

The meaning of life is to find out the composition of existence. The meaning of life is to find out as much of the composition of existence as you can, that you can come to want. There is a big picture out there, and it seems we can come to want it from top to bottom, in all its dynamics and layers and angles and flavors and shades and pitches and amalgamations of sensations and experiences.

What does it mean to be alive? I think this is it isn't it?

I agree completely.

Aside from the meaning derived through the development of my human condition...

I'd like to say that it would be to stay as sane and rational as you possibly can as you tolerate newfound realizations--e.g. people converting from theism to atheism, and who knows what else -- perhaps society's current ethical practices? On an even higher level, the question is when will the paradigm shifts finally come to a halt? First the world was flat, and then it was round, and along with that the one universe. Nowadays they speak of parallel universes. What madness!

The meaning derived from my human condition, I prefer absurdism and hedonism (currently). Now of course, because of my human condition, that's what I'd like to say. Whether my actions follow so that I am not a hypocrit, that's for "God" or other observers to decide.

Edited by absent minded, 12 January 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[Arceupins]

SHORT VERSION

Meaning arises from purpose, and purpose from value or worth. This requires a conscious entity to make a subjective appraisal of something.

Thus, reality has no objective meaning. Your life has the purpose, and thus meaning, you choose to give it.

LONG VERSION

Worth is the value placed in an object for the benefits that can be reaped from it. If something is useful, it has value and purpose.

Thus, purpose is the subjective evaluation of something's worth. The compulsion to do so evolved as a psychological trait:

Chimps who realised they could use tools to hunt or kill competitors were likely to achieve social dominance. As a result they were more likely to procreate (sexual selection), and less likely to die during famine or warfare (natural selection). Thus the neurological modules that place purpose in useful objects were strengthened from generation to generation.

Meaning is the necessary result of purposeful creation. For instance: language was created for a purpose, thus it has meaning. It follows that unless something was created for a purpose it has no meaning.

Because the ability to create purpose and value meaning was so advantageous it became a key mechanism by which modern man functions. Unfortunately this leaves us with a predisposition to see creation, purpose, and meaning in phenomena that otherwise have none.

The common belief there is 'meaning' behind the movements of celestial objects is an example of this. For there to be meaning there must be purpose. It follows that for there to exist purpose independent of the conscious intent of man there must be some higher consciousness we are unable to perceive. And just like that, with the unexplained streaking of a comet across the prehistoric night sky, we have religious 'belief'.

An understanding of our evolutionary predisposition toward seeing meaning in meaningless events is important if we are to overcome it.

What is the meaning of life, then?

Answering this is difficult because it depends on your interpretation of the question, either:

Interpretation 1: What is the meaning of my life?
Answer: You have to find out for yourself.
Interpretation 2 - What is the meaning of existence?
Answer: There is none.

I've always enjoyed to imagine the universe without consciousness, if humans just disappeared from the cosmic tapestry, and things just 'were'. Reality is grand.

Edited by Arceupins, 14 January 2012 - 02:09 AM.

[hooter]

The meaning of life is to extend it indefinitely and find a way to reverse entropy. It's the riddle of the universe.

Edited by hooter, 15 January 2012 - 02:16 AM.

[Lufega]

The meaning of life is to extend it indefinitely and find a way to reverse entropy.

I think we did. We invented plastic !

[hooter]

The meaning of life is to extend it indefinitely and find a way to reverse entropy.

I think we did. We invented plastic !

George Carlin reference? Nice

[brokenportal]

SHORT VERSION

Meaning arises from purpose, and purpose from value or worth. This requires a conscious entity to make a subjective appraisal of something.

Thus, reality has no objective meaning. Your life has the purpose, and thus meaning, you choose to give it.

LONG VERSION

Right, some ways we can think about it to help us get a grasp on what it means to be alive includes considering what the purpose of things are, what the totality of that purpose might be summed up as or not, what has value or not, and then seeing what we might be able to conclude. I spelled out how it seems in the topic, you sort of confirm it, but I think your interpretation may be too literal. I could be wrong though.

You say,

Answering this is difficult because it depends on your interpretation of the question, either:

I dont know, I think that it could be difficult, and from what I see of this question over the years, from people, in literature, in philosophy etc. is that many of them get at the notion that it is difficult, but Im not sure that we can say it definitely is. It seems to me that notion sort of discourages people from trying to arrive at an answer to what the meaning of life is. There may not be a way to sum it up, but from what I can see, I think there is.

Interpretation 1: What is the meaning of my life?
Answer: You have to find out for yourself.

I agree, sort of, but the way Im saying it is that, "The meaning of life is to find out as much of the composition of existence as you can, that you can come to want."

"As you can come to want." is getting at the notion of "You have to find out for yourself," except that it aligns it more with an understanding that seems to me to be conducive to an understanding of what it means to be alive. People pursue the question it seems, at least in part because they are interested in understanding the basic guiding outline for what to do with life.

Interpretation 2 - What is the meaning of existence?
Answer: There is none.

I might be approaching this notion wrong, but from what I can see that statement is an unintentional red herring of sorts, and Im not sure that we can say that is true, can we? If we say that existence is meaningless then we imply an existence free of consciousness, free of beings that have ways to sense and understand their surroundings. But isnt human consciousness less a removed part of existence, and more like just another facet of it? As part of the universe, the universe cant be said to have no meaning can it? In other words, if we wanted to make the case that maybe there is no meaning of life, then I dont think we could. I mean, maybe we can, but from what I see, I dont think that it is a case that is there to be made.

I've always enjoyed to imagine the universe without consciousness, if humans just disappeared from the cosmic tapestry, and things just 'were'. Reality is grand.

It seems that would be an unnatural universe for one, possibly a universe that isnt possible. Lets just imagine that there was not any consciousness anywhere in existence. Even if that were the case, which doenst seem possible, the potential for life would always be there, and so the meaning would still be there. Meaning and potential seem pretty interrelated. I would go into that but I think you get the gist of it and for the sake of some brevity I better leave it at that for now.

Reality is grand because the potential for consciousness gives meaning to it in that it can know as much of itself as it can come to want that it can get to before it is potentially destroyed.

Edited by brokenportal, 15 January 2012 - 09:02 PM.

[hivemind]

[brokenportal]

I think that we can, it seems, assert a guideline for life. “What can I do with life? I can see how much of it I may or may not want to know and then see if I can get it.” That, is the meaning of life no? What does it mean to be alive? It means seeing how much of existence you may or may not want to know and then doing what you can to see how much of that knowing and not knowing you can accomplish. What is the meaning of life? Answer: Figuring out how much of existence you want to know and then doing what you can to see how much of it you can get.

Furthermore, it seems that asking what the meaning of life is serves the purpose of trying to know that answer; knowing that answer then it seems serves the purpose of allowing people to realize that they have to stop and think about what they want out of life. It might seem hard to believe, but I think there are probably a lot of people who actually never seriously consider that. If we can position that notion centrally, if we can establish that is an important question to ask one’s self, and not just an important question, but possibly thee centrally most fundamental and pivotal question, the meaning of life, then I think we can get a lot more people to decide to want more out of life, to exercise what it means to be alive.

[hivemind]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism

In philosophy, "The Absurd" refers to the conflict between the human tendency to seek value and meaning in life and the human inability to find any. In this context absurd does not mean "logically impossible," but rather "humanly impossible."^[1] The universe and the human mind do not each separately cause the Absurd, but rather, the Absurd arises by the contradictory nature of the two existing simultaneously.
Absurdism, therefore, is a philosophical school of thought stating that the efforts of humanity to find inherent meaning will ultimately fail (and hence are absurd) because the sheer amount of information, including the vast unknown, makes certainty impossible. As a philosophy, absurdism also explores the fundamental nature of the Absurd and how individuals, once becoming conscious of the Absurd, should react to it.

[brokenportal]

That is a good example of what I meant by this:

I dont know, I think that it could be difficult, and from what I see of this question over the years, from people, in literature, in philosophy etc. is that many of them get at the notion that it is difficult, but Im not sure that we can say it definitely is. It seems to me that notion sort of discourages people from trying to arrive at an answer to what the meaning of life is. There may not be a way to sum it up, but from what I can see, I think there is.

The general notion also circumvents that concept.

“What can I do with life? I can see how much of it I may or may not want to know and then see if I can get it.”

It doesn't refer to very specific things, it is about how what a person can come to want to know seems to be what it means to be alive. If a person looks at everything and decides it all sucks then they can choose to die if they want. If a person looks at it and wants the whole big picture then they can try to get that.

[corb]

I might be approaching this notion wrong, but from what I can see that statement is an unintentional red herring of sorts, and Im not sure that we can say that is true, can we? If we say that existence is meaningless then we imply an existence free of consciousness, free of beings that have ways to sense and understand their surroundings.

Of course life is MEANINGFUL - we are complex chemical reactions processing the resources of our biosphere into other chemicals. Life doesn't have a MEANING though, not in the way you're asking. Not in that grand scale of egocentric self-delusion.

s part of the universe, the universe cant be said to have no meaning can it?

There was a lot of potential energy in the nothingness of space, one day it became kinetic energy, and then that energy started doing more and more complex things - and that is IT. That has it's own universal "meaning", but nothing the minuscule scale of human consciousness can process, mainly because it doesn't elevate us to "the chosen ones" status.
I might change my mind if we become immortal and bend the universe to our will at some point in the future, for the time being we're about as relevant as space dust and asteroids.

In other words, if we wanted to make the case that maybe there is no meaning of life, then I dont think we could.

I'm pretty sure we can.
Tools have reasons to exist. They were designed for a purpose. We were not, we were a fluke. Pure chance.
If you're looking for a meaning of life, you're looking for god. Personally as an atheist I can't agree with that.

Edited by corb, 20 January 2012 - 04:58 AM.

[Ark]

If your looking for a number try 8

[brokenportal]

I added the number to differentiate it from other meaning of life topics.

Human consciousness, our awareness of the universe, our ability to arrange the elements of the universe is what gives meaning to the universe. A barren universe with no consciousness cant mean anything to itself because it cant perceive meaning. We are the element that adds meaning into this equation, unless there are other self aware beings that can willfully shape the elements. So now what does it mean to be alive? It means that we have the chance to know as much of this existence as we can come to want to know. It seems that that is simply what it means. I dont see arguments that negate that notion.

If the universe were to tell a soul that it was going to launch it into a body in existence and the soul said, "What does that mean?" then the universe, it seems, could logically say that it means that it then gets the chance to know as much of existence as it can come to want to know.

[jakord]

To answer the question of the meaning of life always has the problem of the ultimate justification. I'd say the only thing that needs no further justification is a conscious state of well-being. That's the only thing of intrinsic value and everything else that could be considered as "the meanings of life" is a means to this end.

[brokenportal]

Right, and a main place that well being comes from is in pursuing and obtaining what we want, what peaks our interest and curiosity to come to want to know and experience. A lot of people don't think they want indefinite life extension because they think there are only a limited amount of things that they want. In many if not most cases, I find that its because they don't think there could be very many more things to want. When most people think about the big picture, it seems to me that they can not deny that there are more and more things that they want. Maybe they can, but from what I can see at this point, it doesn't seem that they can. If its the case that this can happen, and the meaning of life is conscious well being, which is another way of saying what I'm saying, to satisfy your brain with experiencing what you want to experience, then to put any mechanism in place that could allow people to see more and more things that they want, is to help uncover for them, the meaning of life, it seems.

In other words, if the meaning of life is to know and experience as much of the big picture as we can, and can come to want, then lets let people know so that they can pursue the meaning of life too. If we don't allow people to understand why pursuing the big picture is interesting and something that could be in the cards, then it seems we don't allow them to think outside of a box that traps them from understanding and moving toward the meaning of their life.

[kevinseven11]

Life is a catalyst to the universe's diffusion of complex chemicals.