102 replies to this topic

[manic_racetam]

I did try it with adrafinil earlier this year, but didn't notice any specific synergy. That's most likely because I was taking too many other random supplements and noots at the same time, though.

How much Adrafinil?

I've experimented with adrafinil four or five times in my life. I've taken up to 1500mg's at once before (5 pills). Made me feel like I was on the verge of going completely insane at that dose (psychotic break type worries, probably just anxiety though, who knows). But when I was on the deprenyl I would take anywhere from 300-900mgs per day in divided doses.

Wow that is helpful. I was only thinking of taking 100mg to stay awake during the day. 300-900mg per day sounds a bit too high. It's close to 100% converted in vivo to Modafinil, correct?

The tablets are 300mg each, so I'm guessing the conversion can't be that complete. Wiki says it's 80% bio-available but not sure how much is converted into modafinil. Also, I've never tried modafinil so if you end up trying adrafinil let me know if there is any difference. I know the effects take longer to begin (about an hour) due to the metabolizing into modafinil but don't know first hand if the effects are the same.

[thedevinroy]

I did try it with adrafinil earlier this year, but didn't notice any specific synergy. That's most likely because I was taking too many other random supplements and noots at the same time, though.

How much Adrafinil?

I've experimented with adrafinil four or five times in my life. I've taken up to 1500mg's at once before (5 pills). Made me feel like I was on the verge of going completely insane at that dose (psychotic break type worries, probably just anxiety though, who knows). But when I was on the deprenyl I would take anywhere from 300-900mgs per day in divided doses.

Wow that is helpful. I was only thinking of taking 100mg to stay awake during the day. 300-900mg per day sounds a bit too high. It's close to 100% converted in vivo to Modafinil, correct?

The tablets are 300mg each, so I'm guessing the conversion can't be that complete. Wiki says it's 80% bio-available but not sure how much is converted into modafinil. Also, I've never tried modafinil so if you end up trying adrafinil let me know if there is any difference. I know the effects take longer to begin (about an hour) due to the metabolizing into modafinil but don't know first hand if the effects are the same.

Thought you knew off hand, but I did some digging around and found out in figure two of this paper, that Adrafinil does have other metabolites, at least one other the paper just calls, "Acid". Modafinil is also 80% bioavailable... so all we need to know is how much is metabolized into Modafinil and how much turns into an expensive phenyl sulfur acid.

[nito]

Hey Devinthayer. I just bought some 5 mg jumex deprenyl. How do i start this? Do i take half first or just pop 5 mg in? Besides does it interact with any of the following items since i am taking them?

Choline (gpc, cdp, dmae)
Racetam
Uridine
b complex
l tyrosine
l theanine
fish oil

Perhaps easier would be to ask, what does it interact with AFAYK?

cheers

Looks like you have been experimenting. There could be an interaction with choline supplementation, but most likely it will cause a synergy rather than an interaction. If you are experiencing irritability or aggression, that is from increase in dopamine and norepinephrine. I wouldn't consider that an interaction, but a main effect.

Hands colder is from an increase in circulation from an increase in adrenaline and norepinephrine. I get that, too, now that you mention it. Blood thinners make this effect worse for me. A warm face is also from this increase in circulation. If you've ever taken heat transfer, you'll know that convection heat transfer coefficient increases when flow increases. Thus, you lose more heat through your head and torso before it reaches your hands and feet. Warm face, cold hands.

Stablon is cool to take with Selegiline. The rest will cause an interaction, and unfortunately, you will have to wait a few days to a week in between. To make the best use of Selegiline with your regimen, you can take 1mg every other day sublingually (as to not upset the stomach enzymes). Get out the exacto knife, I guess. It will potentiate the effects of Welbutrin and may contradict the Buspar at 2.5mg and above.

Read from wiki that wellbutrin could be a problem mixing with it , also l tyrosine, although someone on the board old me its safe, u got to be careful i guess. Anyways 5 days in, and to be honest, i feel quite sleepy, and not as energetic and motivated as others might have described. I sleep such long hours and find it hard to get out of bed. Ill give it a little bit more time.

[thedevinroy]

Hey Devinthayer. I just bought some 5 mg jumex deprenyl. How do i start this? Do i take half first or just pop 5 mg in? Besides does it interact with any of the following items since i am taking them?

Choline (gpc, cdp, dmae)
Racetam
Uridine
b complex
l tyrosine
l theanine
fish oil

Perhaps easier would be to ask, what does it interact with AFAYK?

cheers

Looks like you have been experimenting. There could be an interaction with choline supplementation, but most likely it will cause a synergy rather than an interaction. If you are experiencing irritability or aggression, that is from increase in dopamine and norepinephrine. I wouldn't consider that an interaction, but a main effect.

Hands colder is from an increase in circulation from an increase in adrenaline and norepinephrine. I get that, too, now that you mention it. Blood thinners make this effect worse for me. A warm face is also from this increase in circulation. If you've ever taken heat transfer, you'll know that convection heat transfer coefficient increases when flow increases. Thus, you lose more heat through your head and torso before it reaches your hands and feet. Warm face, cold hands.

Stablon is cool to take with Selegiline. The rest will cause an interaction, and unfortunately, you will have to wait a few days to a week in between. To make the best use of Selegiline with your regimen, you can take 1mg every other day sublingually (as to not upset the stomach enzymes). Get out the exacto knife, I guess. It will potentiate the effects of Welbutrin and may contradict the Buspar at 2.5mg and above.

Read from wiki that wellbutrin could be a problem mixing with it , also l tyrosine, although someone on the board old me its safe, u got to be careful i guess. Anyways 5 days in, and to be honest, i feel quite sleepy, and not as energetic and motivated as others might have described. I sleep such long hours and find it hard to get out of bed. Ill give it a little bit more time.

Tyrosine should be safe unless you have an overactive thyroid.

Yeah there are a surprising amount of ups and downs with Selegiline. Mostly ups for me, but man does it suck when the crash hits me about 8hrs after 5mg dose.

I wonder what the mechanism of action that makes some people sleepy? I know lowered dopamine levels cause sleep apnea. A serotonin increase in plasma levels from the MAO-A inhibition of Selegiline and increased dopamine from MAO-B inhibition could also be a possibility. Hmm.. Adderall did this up & down tiredness for me... Concerta never did. I wonder if it has to do with the L-amphetamine metabolite of Selegiline.

[thedevinroy]

I woke up with a purple spot on my face. Just read it's one of the side effects. Anyone else get this?

[manic_racetam]

I woke up with a purple spot on my face. Just read it's one of the side effects. Anyone else get this?

Nope, never heard of it even. Does it state the mechanism that causes this? Also, how big is the spot?

[thedevinroy]

I woke up with a purple spot on my face. Just read it's one of the side effects. Anyone else get this?

Nope, never heard of it even. Does it state the mechanism that causes this? Also, how big is the spot?

It's nickel sized. Right on the corner of my mouth where it turns into my cheek. I notice a lot of meth-heads have these spots... probably from the L-Methamphetamine metabolite? Perhaps, I should be more consistent with how I take it. I usually eat it with food, but now I'll always take it with food. I'll also cut back on coffee intake... I've not been getting enough sleep lately, so I'll be better about that tonight, too.

Hope this will make it go away.

EDIT: See this: http://www.nlm.nih.g...ds/a697046.html and read common side effects done a ways. "purple blotches on the skin" is listed there.

Edited by devinthayer, 10 November 2011 - 06:49 PM.

[manic_racetam]

Bummer of a side effect. Hopefully it goes away like a bruise would and whatever subcutaneous rupture caused it has since sealed itself off. Is there a possibility that it somehow messes with a coagulation factor in the blood? I've tried a bit of research but stopped shortly after this wiki page that mentions coagulation factor XII.

[thedevinroy]

Bummer of a side effect. Hopefully it goes away like a bruise would and whatever subcutaneous rupture caused it has since sealed itself off. Is there a possibility that it somehow messes with a coagulation factor in the blood? I've tried a bit of research but stopped shortly after this wiki page that mentions coagulation factor XII.

**Insert expletives here.**

[thedevinroy]

Bummer of a side effect. Hopefully it goes away like a bruise would and whatever subcutaneous rupture caused it has since sealed itself off. Is there a possibility that it somehow messes with a coagulation factor in the blood? I've tried a bit of research but stopped shortly after this wiki page that mentions coagulation factor XII.

On second thought... I doubt I have that.

[unregistered_user]

From the picture it's hard to tell. If it is a hematoma, is it really anything to be alarmed by? I've been taking deprenyl for months daily (with a couple of small breaks) and never experienced this. How much are you taking per day and how? I do 1-2mg sublingually.

[X_Danny_X]

this thread has so much stuff in it, but just to summarize, it is about deprenyl just fighting off depression and ADHD? what about cognitive effects?

when i took Deprenyl, I never felt sooooooooooooooooooooooo confident before in my life. i felt like i could take on the world and then some. it made me realize that maybe my dopamine levels were low or something. i do suffer from depression because of what i suffered in life. i havent used deprenyl in a long time. Ritalin so far is giving me that happy feeling, not as high as Deprenyl but it is much cheaper.

i heard someone posted that Ritalin decreases your life span while Deprenyl does the opposite. any truth to the decrease lifespan from Ritalin.

Edited by X_Danny_X, 11 November 2011 - 04:11 AM.

[thedevinroy]

From the picture it's hard to tell. If it is a hematoma, is it really anything to be alarmed by? I've been taking deprenyl for months daily (with a couple of small breaks) and never experienced this. How much are you taking per day and how? I do 1-2mg sublingually.

5mg twice a day, usually taken with food.

EDIT: Yeah it kind of looks like hematoma... that is listed as a side efect on drugs.com. Huh, any ways of preventing hematoma from Selegiline? Apparently, you can apply onions to reduce the iron content and accelerate healing.

Edited by devinthayer, 11 November 2011 - 03:06 PM.

[thedevinroy]

this thread has so much stuff in it, but just to summarize, it is about deprenyl just fighting off depression and ADHD? what about cognitive effects?

It is about Selegiline against ADHD. Cognitive effects for me were ability to connect thoughts quicker. Lowered anxiety and depression. VERY strong antidepressant. Hard to be depressed. This is an indirect cognitive enhancer, as it is an encouragement drug. It helps you from being self-destructive, moving forward, and thus enhancing your mind because you learn more easily, skipping the phase of depression from learning the hard way.

when i took Deprenyl, I never felt sooooooooooooooooooooooo confident before in my life. i felt like i could take on the world and then some. it made me realize that maybe my dopamine levels were low or something. i do suffer from depression because of what i suffered in life. i havent used deprenyl in a long time. Ritalin so far is giving me that happy feeling, not as high as Deprenyl but it is much cheaper.

I agree methylphenidate is not as strong of an anti-depressant.

Selegiline is available in generic tablets and capsules in the USA. Price shouldn't be an issue (not sure where you live, but if it's the USA, you're good).

i heard someone posted that Ritalin decreases your life span while Deprenyl does the opposite. any truth to the decrease lifespan from Ritalin.

Methylphenidate is a stimulant, so as mentioned before (http://www.longecity...fespan-of-mice/) animals with higher resting heart rates have shorter life spans. Your heart has beats like mileage on a car - it is limited. Taking constant stimulants may in fact shorten your lifespan of your heart. In fact, it can cause serious strain on the heart in short term use, especially in higher doses.

[X_Danny_X]

i live in new york. what is the name brand for Selegiline so I can buy it instead of Ritalin. I take Ritalin in 20mg dosage a day, well not continuously. I guess Hordenine will also help shorten your life.

Can I go to walmart, target, or any other brand stores??? The liquid version is stronger from what i hear.

[manic_racetam]

Bummer of a side effect. Hopefully it goes away like a bruise would and whatever subcutaneous rupture caused it has since sealed itself off. Is there a possibility that it somehow messes with a coagulation factor in the blood? I've tried a bit of research but stopped shortly after this wiki page that mentions coagulation factor XII.

On second thought... I doubt I have that.

Ok, that's not too bad at all. I imagined it as a deep purple birthmark-like blotch. Just looks like an imaginatively placed hickey or something. Has it gotten any darker or is it basically staying the same?

[thedevinroy]

Bummer of a side effect. Hopefully it goes away like a bruise would and whatever subcutaneous rupture caused it has since sealed itself off. Is there a possibility that it somehow messes with a coagulation factor in the blood? I've tried a bit of research but stopped shortly after this wiki page that mentions coagulation factor XII.

On second thought... I doubt I have that.

Ok, that's not too bad at all. I imagined it as a deep purple birthmark-like blotch. Just looks like an imaginatively placed hickey or something. Has it gotten any darker or is it basically staying the same?

It's lightened up quite a bit. I generally have a pretty red blotchy face from increased circulation from the herbs, coffee, and tea I take, but this purple spot caught me off guard. By the way, that is hella photoshopped (brightness and selective color). My phone camera sucks, so it came out all noisy. I tried to best accurately get the contrast from face to blotch, and I think I did a pretty good job.

[thedevinroy]

It's official. Selegiline cured my hemorrhoids. Just throwing that out there for those of you worried about the blood pressure being an issue. Though I may have some random hematoma on my face, I can't conclude it is from Selegiline and not from pushing myself too hard. I can however conclude that Selegiline has helped with digestion so much that I no longer have a sphincter problem. Pooping is easier and more frequent. I actually enjoy pooping now instead of dreading wiping my ass.

[thedevinroy]

How Selegiline Has Helped with ADHD So Far:

• Self-frustration is lower and almost non-existent.
• Switching tasks is easier.
• Building productive momentum is easier.
• Working with passion is more frequent.
• Synergizes with tea to promote more focus and energy.
• Prevents depression from Huperzine A administration.

General Benefits from Selegiline:

• Life seems to be fuller. Interesting things seem more interesting. Overall, more outgoing. Time flies.
• Digestion has improved. See above post for details.
• Connecting thoughts is easier, faster. Creativity is enhanced, especially once the adrenaline gets going.
• Social behaviors are enhanced. Speaking your mind is clearer.
• Sexual desire has increased. When contained, this energy can be directed to get things done.
• Confidence and Charisma. Negative topics don't kill the vibe. You can smile about anything.

Side Effects from Selegiline:

• Hyperactivity. This died down after two weeks. I suggest taking Gotu Kola (sedating) or Ginkgo (neutralizing) when needed.
• A possible mild hematoma on my cheek. This has faded and may be due to other herbs and stress factors.
• Vomiting. This only happened twice. When I first took it, and when I ate two bowls of Corn Pops (second time I thew up Corn Pops).
• Vertigo. I haven't fallen over yet. My years of hardcore moshing training help me keep my balance.
• Lightheadedness. I feel high at times.
• Silliness. Everything is hilarious.
• Ups and downs. I seem to crash around 8 hours after 5mg administration. I get hyper around 30 minutes after taking 5mg (capsule).
• Short term memory. Gasp! Read on to find more details.
• Warm face, cold hands. Ashwagandha fixes this.

Areas of ADHD Not Improved / Worsened / Barely Touched:

• The "wall" is still there. Getting started on new tasks is barely touched.
• Hyperactivity has worsened. Luckily, I'm more on the inattentive side of ADHD.
• Staying on task has barely been touched.
• Remembering small details from conversations has worsened. My mind switches to the next thought too quickly to form memories.
• Day dreaming has worsened.
• Fidgeting has not improved.

Conclusions

It seems as though Selegiline is only a half-fix. It fixes depression-related symptoms, while it grazes on the main issues and makes the others worse. However, I have been thinking of possible synergies to correct this. At first I thought, what about a COMT inhibitor? Well the pharmaceuticals are really not all that great. There are only two: one is peripheral while the other is hepatotoxic. Dead end. Then I thought, maybe what I need is to calm down my NMDA receptors? I looked into NMDA antagonists like Amantadine and Memantine and heard some great personal success stories about making ADHD manageable, bringing the symptoms down to a "normal" level. Huperzine A does correct this quite a bit, and I dare say NMDA antagonism might be the right synergy.

[X_Danny_X]

so take Huperzine A with Selegiline! gotcha! damn what an awesome summary Devinthayer. you should run for President.

what brand exists for Selegiline? I live in the USA/New York

[thedevinroy]

so take Huperzine A with Selegiline! gotcha! damn what an awesome summary Devinthayer. you should run for President.

what brand exists for Selegiline? I live in the USA/New York

I just go to Walgreen's pharmacy. They have generics. $15 with prescription. I really don't know of others available, but I heard success with online brands like DepPro and some others out there...

[X_Danny_X]

i see, i will check it out. Memories are decreased or short term memories are. I am thinking of taking Ashawanda and Bacopa to combat this and also Meth. Blue. This should help fight it. Huperzine A should help but man I do have depression quite high and I dont want to take anything that helps make it worse, despite taking Deprenyl.

[thedevinroy]

i see, i will check it out. Memories are decreased or short term memories are. I am thinking of taking Ashawanda and Bacopa to combat this and also Meth. Blue. This should help fight it. Huperzine A should help but man I do have depression quite high and I dont want to take anything that helps make it worse, despite taking Deprenyl.

It doesn't hurt memory recall that bad, if it all, but the hyperactivity associated with it makes remembering small details harder. I don't think it is choline-related... though that isn't out of the question, as I do get vertigo, and traditionally that was from lack of choline in my diet. Gotu Kola fixes the hyperactivity and vertigo. Ashwagandha definitely helps in both areas as well.

Haven't tried Bacopa or higher doses of Methylene Blue with it because I seem to be getting twitches from higher serotonin levels. My serotonin levels have never been a problem, and the fact that coffee makes me tired may imply that I already have enough serotonin to go around. I took zinc and it has cut way back on the twitching and lethargy from serotonin inhibition. If you struggle with depression, perhaps you won't need the zinc.

Low doses of Methylene Blue (under 1mg) seem to not interact at all.

One way of preventing depression from acetylcholinestarase inhibitors like Huperzine A is to increase your dietary intake in methyl doners like TMG, choline, and methionine or to just take supplements like lecithin, Alpha GPC, TMG, and SAM-e. Brocolli extract might have some choline, too. Huperzine A only "depresses" (from what I can tell) because it keeps choline in its neurotransmitter form, not allowing it to be broken down for methylation. (acetylcholine receptor activation actually increases dopamine receptor densities, so there is no negative interaction between circuits to cause this effect, leading me to the conclusion that it must be the methylation cycle responsible)

Again, I have to stress Selegiline was much too strong of an antidepressant to let Huperzine A affect my mood.

Edited by devinthayer, 15 November 2011 - 11:36 AM.

[X_Danny_X]

I see, I need some time to digest all that. I am nowhere near your level of understanding this stuff. But that is good to know. I take alot of Eggs as you know. So the choline content in eggs then should help me. On a side note, you mention this below. I am only interested in the bold part.

Wow a week or two? I thought u meant to feel it quicker. Yes i can be very impatient and sometimes just up te dose in desperation, but perhaps i need to be aware tat selegiline is a serious drug. I migt start putting the pill under my tounge as tey seem to disolve extremelly fast. How long do you have to wait before you take an anti deppressant if you hace taken selegiline for a week?

Haha a week or two? Not at all. I noticed the effect within 30 to 45 minutes, sometimes sooner.

The effects definitely became smoother over a week or two, with its effects peaking at a week, and then smoothing out. The subtle benefits kick in about week two, then your brain starts to adapt to the drug, reaching a better homeostasis. That's how most antidepressants work, ADHD medications, too.

when this happens, you should stop using it for a few days?

How many times do you take Deprenyl/Selegiline a week? Besides Depro, what other brands exists? I couldnt find a brand for Selegiline in stores this time

Edited by X_Danny_X, 15 November 2011 - 11:02 PM.

[thedevinroy]

I see, I need some time to digest all that. I am nowhere near your level of understanding this stuff. But that is good to know. I take alot of Eggs as you know. So the choline content in eggs then should help me. On a side note, you mention this below. I am only interested in the bold part.

Wow a week or two? I thought u meant to feel it quicker. Yes i can be very impatient and sometimes just up te dose in desperation, but perhaps i need to be aware tat selegiline is a serious drug. I migt start putting the pill under my tounge as tey seem to disolve extremelly fast. How long do you have to wait before you take an anti deppressant if you hace taken selegiline for a week?

Haha a week or two? Not at all. I noticed the effect within 30 to 45 minutes, sometimes sooner.

The effects definitely became smoother over a week or two, with its effects peaking at a week, and then smoothing out. The subtle benefits kick in about week two, then your brain starts to adapt to the drug, reaching a better homeostasis. That's how most antidepressants work, ADHD medications, too.

when this happens, you should stop using it for a few days?

How many times do you take Deprenyl/Selegiline a week? Besides Depro, what other brands exists? I couldnt find a brand for Selegiline in stores this time

DepPro, Jumex, Cyprenil, Selepryl, Movergan, Eldepryl, Anipryl (for dogs), Selegiline, and L-Deprenyl.

When I say your brain adapts to the drug, this means that the side effects come down, and most of the main effects remain. Your body will actually produce less dopamine and PEA on its own, allowing it to focus on other things. Why? Because you will have more dopamine, norepinephrine, and PEA just kicking around because MAO-B, it's primary metabolizer is completely disabled. They accumulate, and your body adjusts to this. To prevent this, you can take caffeine, lithium, nicotine, cholinergics, Vitamin D, Royal Jelly, NAC, Resveratrol, or something else to increase Tyrosine Hydroxylase activity.

Edited by devinthayer, 16 November 2011 - 12:16 AM.

[nonewnootropics]

I recently started taking selegiline, and I have a few questions for the knowledgeable people in this thread.

What dosage would I need to take in order for its effects to be cumulative? Since I understand selegiline to be an irreversible inhibitor, there must be some dose after which MAO-B will start being deactivated faster than my body can create it. So if I take half a mg of selegiline everyday, will I be deactivating more MAO-B than I am creating everyday? Or am I misunderstanding how it works?

On a low dosage of selegiline (2.5 mg per day), is there any substance that I need to avoid? I don't think that I need to worry about tyramine or tryptophan rich foods because of the MAO-B selectivity at that dose should be pretty good. I realize that I need to avoid anything else that could have any MAOI effect. How about dopaminergic substances? I tend to smoke cannabis about once a week; is that dangerous to do while taking low dosages of selegiline? How about things with PEA, like chocolate?

Also, I was unaware of the down-regulation of dopamine and PEA that devinthayer mentioned in the post above mine. Is this effect something I should be concerned about if I plan to take 1 to 2.5 mg of selegiline a day for an extended period of time?

Thanks!

[thedevinroy]

I recently started taking selegiline, and I have a few questions for the knowledgeable people in this thread.

What dosage would I need to take in order for its effects to be cumulative? Since I understand selegiline to be an irreversible inhibitor, there must be some dose after which MAO-B will start being deactivated faster than my body can create it. So if I take half a mg of selegiline everyday, will I be deactivating more MAO-B than I am creating everyday? Or am I misunderstanding how it works?

On a low dosage of selegiline (2.5 mg per day), is there any substance that I need to avoid? I don't think that I need to worry about tyramine or tryptophan rich foods because of the MAO-B selectivity at that dose should be pretty good. I realize that I need to avoid anything else that could have any MAOI effect. How about dopaminergic substances? I tend to smoke cannabis about once a week; is that dangerous to do while taking low dosages of selegiline? How about things with PEA, like chocolate?

Also, I was unaware of the down-regulation of dopamine and PEA that devinthayer mentioned in the post above mine. Is this effect something I should be concerned about if I plan to take 1 to 2.5 mg of selegiline a day for an extended period of time?

Thanks!

Please do NOT be concerned that your body will produce less dopamine and phenethylamine. When taking Selegiline, your body has the same, if not more, dopamine and phenethylamine in its synapse thanks to MAO-B inhibition. Your body produces less because less is broken down. Your homeostasis is still equal or higher than it was before taking Selegiline. Because your body produces less does not mean your body has less. I had to clear that up.

2.5mg per day shouldn't cause a negative interaction with anything, though I wouldn't mix it with marijuana or anything else to get high unless you honestly don't care if you get serotonin toxicity. It may take a few months at that dose to reach saturation of MAO-B inhibition. Noticeable effects should begin within a few weeks.

If your muscles start to twitch and you get nauseous or you get too stoned, try taking a multivitamin/mineral. I find Zinc + Vitamin C + Vitamin B6 works best.

[nonewnootropics]

Thanks for your help! I have a few questions about your response:

Please do NOT be concerned that your body will produce less dopamine and phenethylamine. When taking Selegiline, your body has the same, if not more, dopamine and phenethylamine in its synapse thanks to MAO-B inhibition. Your body produces less because less is broken down. Your homeostasis is still equal or higher than it was before taking Selegiline. Because your body produces less does not mean your body has less. I had to clear that up.

I understand that there will be higher synaptic concentrations of dopamine and PEA while taking selegiline, even if my body is producing less. My concern was with down-regulation of those chemicals that will lead to a deficit (and possibly some sort of withdrawal) when I stop taking selegiline. Is that concern legitimate?

2.5mg per day shouldn't cause a negative interaction with anything, though I wouldn't mix it with marijuana or anything else to get high unless you honestly don't care if you get serotonin toxicity.

I don't quite understand how a combination of cannabis and MAO-B inhibition could lead to serotonin toxicity (something I would definitely like to avoid). As I understand it, neither the effects of MAO-B inhibition nor the effects of cannabis have much influence on synaptic serotonin concentration. Why would they cumulatively lead to serotonin toxicity?

Noticeable effects should begin within a few weeks.

I have definitely noticed effects after three days of taking 2.5 mg. Is it likely that what I am experiencing is actually a placebo effect?

[X_Danny_X]

do you need to take a break from Selegiline? Do you treat it like a stimulant? Prolong use of it wont harm you at all? With stimulants like Ritalin, I got from you Devin that I have to becareful and cycle it off or it will shorten my life......that is the danger. What is the danger of taking Selegiline for a long time?

I

Edited by X_Danny_X, 17 November 2011 - 03:11 AM.

[thedevinroy]

I understand that there will be higher synaptic concentrations of dopamine and PEA while taking selegiline, even if my body is producing less. My concern was with down-regulation of those chemicals that will lead to a deficit (and possibly some sort of withdrawal) when I stop taking selegiline. Is that concern legitimate?

You will not likely experience withdrawal since Selegiline permanently disables MAO-B, and your body takes about two weeks to build up natural levels of that enzyme once again.

I don't quite understand how a combination of cannabis and MAO-B inhibition could lead to serotonin toxicity (something I would definitely like to avoid). As I understand it, neither the effects of MAO-B inhibition nor the effects of cannabis have much influence on synaptic serotonin concentration. Why would they cumulatively lead to serotonin toxicity?

Selegiline is also an MAO-A inhibitor. I've noticed with coffee, especially, serotonin is easily raised (coffee now makes me tired after the first half cup, this used to take several; coffee has ®MAO-A inhibitors). MAO-B does not break down serotonin, but since all MAO-B is disabled, Selegiline will only inhibit other enzymes, including MAO-A, which breaks down serotonin. In addition, dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine are raised, so MAO-A has a lot more work to do, especially peripherally, now that its brother MAO-B is gone. Marijuana definitely raises serotonin levels, so MAO-A is going to be over-burdened.

I have definitely noticed effects after three days of taking 2.5 mg. Is it likely that what I am experiencing is actually a placebo effect?

Nope. It's the drug. What I meant was that the drug will get stronger for the next week or so.