51 replies to this topic

[markken]

Hello everyone,

Recently I have used a medicine called Nardil for issues of social anxiety and low mood - the thing with nardil is that it gives very good results in 2 weeks, and last for 3-4 months.. but then it poops out... which is so damn irritating, cause else that would have been the final solution for my issues.

I wonder therefore if we have some bright minds here, with some experience that could give me their best bet on what to use to calm down my anxiety - klonopin has a very good effect..bordering on desinhibition, but I dont like that it makes my mind and cognitive abilities a bit blurred, and sedates too much spec. eyes.. - My anxiety is often related to social environment, small talk one-on-one with people I dont know that well.. and so on .. I think also depressive feelings, which come as a side-effect of this social anxiety is also a comorbid issue which could be good to adress as well...

So, yes.. thanks in advance to everyone .. and I would as well promise the person that helps me find a more or less nootropic/natural solution that alleviates my issue .. a money prize of 500 usd. Not kidding.!!! Resolving this issue to a certain extent has a lot more value to me!!

Markeeny

[hippocampus]

psychotherapy
there is no fucking magic pill for every problem

buy your friends a drink with this money.

anyway, piracetam helps some people with social inhibition ...

Edited by hippocampus, 12 November 2011 - 07:14 PM.

[Introspecta]

Buspar helped me in the beginning. I've been taking it for 4 years. That combined with forcing myself through situations and going to 12 step meetings changed my social anxiety completely. Then i added piracetam and it helped in social settings alot. Just recently got noopept and it seems it would be a good social lubricant not in a getting high sense but for confidence and calmness. So for nootropics. Pircetam and Noopept. For prescription drugs. Buspar. Of course klonopin is going to work but do you really want to be a slave to a pill your whole life because getting off klonopin is probably the hardest longest withdrawal you'll ever have according to many people.

[JChief]

Hello everyone,

Recently I have used a medicine called Nardil for issues of social anxiety and low mood - the thing with nardil is that it gives very good results in 2 weeks, and last for 3-4 months.. but then it poops out... which is so damn irritating, cause else that would have been the final solution for my issues.

I wonder therefore if we have some bright minds here, with some experience that could give me their best bet on what to use to calm down my anxiety - klonopin has a very good effect..bordering on desinhibition, but I dont like that it makes my mind and cognitive abilities a bit blurred, and sedates too much spec. eyes.. - My anxiety is often related to social environment, small talk one-on-one with people I dont know that well.. and so on .. I think also depressive feelings, which come as a side-effect of this social anxiety is also a comorbid issue which could be good to adress as well...

So, yes.. thanks in advance to everyone .. and I would as well promise the person that helps me find a more or less nootropic/natural solution that alleviates my issue .. a money prize of 500 usd. Not kidding.!!! Resolving this issue to a certain extent has a lot more value to me!!

Markeeny

Piracetam, 2 grams twice per day. Noopept 20mg twice per day. These will give you peace of mind and will reduce anxiety to a great extent. Rhodiola Rosea according to the bottle for 30 days (Rosavin brand). This should normalize your brain as it is considered a powerful "adaptogen". You should take it on an empty stomach. I highly recommend it. Rosavin is the only brand that was studied scientifically as far as I know. I understand there are many brands out there, and not all may be standardized as this one is. Also, if you are faced with a particularly difficult social situation then I recommend sulbutiamine (900mg). It increases sociability and mood. I can give you my address whenever. I suffered from extreme anxiety and panic attacks and social anxiety during my high school and early college years. I also abused drugs. Needless to say my brain was not functioning optimally. Long story short I no longer take Klonopin, nor do I suffer from panic attacks, and I am as social as can be.

Social anxiety can compound matters when dealing with the opposite sex. Some feel that a heightened libido increases confidence even if you do not suffer from sexual dysfunction. Further, testosterone plays a key role in confidence and mood and freeing up testosterone naturally can be accomplished with the herb Tongkat Ali. Make sure it is sourced from Indonesia (pasak bumi) and stay away from Malaysian varieties as the potency is not there and the quality is inconsistent and sometimes stretched with Viagra and/or yohimbine. Stick with the Pasak Bumi brand and you will be in good shape. I take the 1:200 extract as a performance enhancer for my weightlifting and it increases endurance and muscle tone. But the other effects are just as desirable. I found the best price for Tongkat from Barlowes Herbal Elixirs.

All of those supplements have worked for me and improve my quality of life.

Edited by JChief, 12 November 2011 - 07:58 PM.

[Neurotik]

Meditation. In that it will put you "above" social situations, and indeed, most situations. Your feelings of self-consciousness are 50% of your social anxiety.

Mediation will get you halfway to your goals.

The other half is maintaining the discipline to stick with it and do it every day. It takes time and patience. But ask any long-time meditator, with years of experience, whether they suffer from social anxiety or debilitating depression (not the creative, useful, pseudo-manic kind, but the one where you can't get anything done, accompanied by self-loathing, etc.) You'll be hard-pressed to get an affirmative answer.

But we're all looking for the latest nootropic/mood agent - that magic bullet that you can *feel* as soon as possible. Right? Thing is, the "nootropic lifestyle" is a rather shaky proposition to begin with, probably prohibitively expensive in some cases, and in others at least not worth the investment for what is actually gained, and is very often simply unsustainable over the long term - at least not without some interesting and likely unpleasant consequences.

Make meditation a part of your lifestyle and you can toss away half of them.

A mind like yours is probably unaccustomed to stillness, quiet, and letting thoughts fall away into silence, only to be replaced with "no thought", and eventually . . . higher states. Why not see how your mind likes it?

You can spend the $500 on a trip to an ashram one of these days or on a meditation retreat. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass by saying "keep your money", but sometimes the solutions are so simple, so readily available, that the expectation of financial reward is just contrary to the very spirit those solutions embody.

[markken]

Would like to make it VERY CLEAR for idiots without anything to do, to please not write in this thread if you dont have any constructive advice to come with. Yes, I know whats psychotherapy is, Yes, I have done that -- for many months actually attending group and individual meetings 16 hours a week, Yes I have some experience with medicines that have helped, and others that didn't, and NO, I'm not into buying beers for friends -- they have money themselves.... I'm no newbee and I'm not the one looking for simple solutions, cause I know sometimes they just are not possible.. something you would have understood if you had read my initial post completely.... so pls. dont some here playing smart-ass with your couch advice when most probably you dont even have any experience with this mental issue or even know anyone who does.

For you others that already have come up with constructive comments, thanks so much !!! I have already noted your name and advice and will have it on a list in case your advice is the one that helps me find some help alleviate this issue

[JChief]

Or meditation.. yes.

[Cephalon]

Kratom

Antidepressant-like effect of mitragynine isolated from Mitragyna speciosa Korth in mice model of depression

Abstract



Mitragyna speciosa Korth. leaves have been used for decades as a traditional medicine to treat diarrhea, diabetes and to improve blood circulation by natives of Malaysia, Thailand and other regions of Southeast Asia. Mitragynine is the major active alkaloid in the plant. To date, the role of mitragynine in psychological disorders such as depression is not scientifically evaluated. Hence, the present investigation evaluates the antidepressant effect of mitragynine in the mouse forced swim test (FST) and tail suspension test (TST), two models predictive of antidepressant activity and the effect of mitragynine towards neuroendocrine system of hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis by measuring the corticosterone concentration of mice exposed to FST and TST. An open-field test (OFT) was used to detect any association of immobility in the FST and TST with changes in motor activity of mice treated with mitragynine. In the present study, mitragynine at dose of 10 mg/kg and 30 mg/kg i.p. injected significantly reduced the immobility time of mice in both FST and TST without any significant effect on locomotor activity in OFT. Moreover, mitragynine significantly reduced the released of corticosterone in mice exposed to FST and TST at dose of 10 mg/kg and 30 mg/kg. Overall, the present study clearly demonstrated that mitragynine exerts an antidepressant effect in animal behavioral model of depression (FST and TST) and the effect appears to be mediated by an interaction with neuroendocrine HPA axis systems.

Kava Kava

Efficacy of Kava Extract for Treating Anxiety: Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis

Abstract


Synthetic anxiolytic drugs are effective for treating anxiety, but they are burdened with adverse effects. Constraints on resources and time often render therapies such as psychologic interventions impracticable. Thus, an effective oral medication with few adverse effects would be a welcome addition to the therapeutic repertoire. This systematic review and meta-analysis was aimed at assessing the evidence for or against the efficacy of kava extract as a symptomatic treatment for anxiety. Systematic literature searches were performed in the computerized databases MEDLINE, EMBASE, BIOSIS, AMED, CISCOM, and the Cochrane Library (all from their respective inception to June 1998). The search terms used were kava, kawa, kavain, Piper methysticum, and Rauschpfeffer (German term for Piper methysticum). Experts on the subject were contacted to provide further information. There were no restrictions regarding the language of publication. Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trials of oral kava extract for the treatment of anxiety were included. All publications were blinded before assessment by a person not involved in the study. Data were extracted in a standardized, predefined fashion independently by the two reviewers. The methodologic quality of all trials was assessed. Superiority of kava extract over placebo was suggested by all seven reviewed trials. The meta-analysis of three trials suggests a significant difference in the reduction of the total score on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Anxiety in favor of kava extract (weighted mean difference, 9.69; 95% confidence interval, 3.54-15.83). These data imply that kava extract is superior to placebo as a symptomatic treatment for anxiety. Therefore, kava extract is an herbal treatment option for anxiety that is worthy of consideration.

But not together.


Edit: And not with an MAOI !

Edited by Cephalon, 12 November 2011 - 08:24 PM.

[markken]

Thanks to all the posters on this thread... Could you please also send me an empty mail to markeeny@hotmail.com with your nickname here om the forum ..cause most prob. I will have some small questions to ask regarding your advice...

Thanks

[Neurotik]

One more thing on meditation.

The video is interesting, but the article is probably quite a bit more food for thought, and hopefully provides a springboard for further research and discovery for the OP.

http://bigthink.com/.../24358?page=all

[hippocampus]

Would like to make it VERY CLEAR for idiots without anything to do, to please not write in this thread if you dont have any constructive advice to come with. Yes, I know whats psychotherapy is, Yes, I have done that -- for many months actually attending group and individual meetings 16 hours a week, Yes I have some experience with medicines that have helped, and others that didn't, and NO, I'm not into buying beers for friends -- they have money themselves.... I'm no newbee and I'm not the one looking for simple solutions, cause I know sometimes they just are not possible.. something you would have understood if you had read my initial post completely.... so pls. dont some here playing smart-ass with your couch advice when most probably you dont even have any experience with this mental issue or even know anyone who does.

For you others that already have come up with constructive comments, thanks so much !!! I have already noted your name and advice and will have it on a list in case your advice is the one that helps me find some help alleviate this issue

I've had social anxiety and depression for years (I didn't even go to school once for two months because of it) and have used antidepressants, nootropics and supplements. on long-term only psychotherapy works (and meditation too - but not so much for social anxiety but for generalized anxiety). fish oil have helped me too, but I assume you are already taking it and maybe some other supplements will also put you in better mood, but these just won't cure your social anxiety, they'll just help with generalized anxiety and depression ... and paleo diet (at least gluten-free)/ON and exercise for the generalized anxiety/depression too but you should already know that and I don't want to repeat it like hundred times.

Edited by hippocampus, 12 November 2011 - 10:05 PM.

[markken]

Thanks to all the posters on this thread... Could you please also send me an empty mail to markeeny@hotmail.com with your nickname here om the forum ..cause most prob. I will have some small questions to ask regarding your advice...

I agree with your post hippoc. about the efficacy that can be reached with these stuff (noots, supplements etc) .. I know for instance nardil, when it kicks in, relieves the social anx. symptoms up to 95% .. Would say I was "cured" .. but actually thats not the option I'd preferred, and thats why I'm looking into some other natural alternatives than can help cope better with the anxiety,... but the psychotherapy has helped me a lot, at least in terms of having access to toher ways of thinking, coping with situations, anxiety and so on .. but I guess the anxiety will not disappear alone by itself .. and besides that .. actually in other situations I do have and show much less anxiety than the average norm in my college class.. for ex. low anxiety presenting, making comments in huge classes and so on.. so this social anx. stuff must be bound to something more social dependent than just neurochemicals in my mind.. so therefore I think some natural help will be og great help to deal with these symptoms.. but a 100% cure , well.. if a miracle happens..

regards..

Thanks

[Cephalon]

Hi Markken,

If you find our suggestions helpfull, and you want to spend 500$, why do you not donate the amount the Imminst?
Funding new projects and research will benefit all of us and everyone else seeking advise on how to improve their lifes. (+lifespans)

Just an idea. I'm sure everyone will do his/her best, wether you pay us, donate to imminst or seekr advise free of charge.

[noos]

If klonopin works with such minimal side effects for you why not use it? You can´t be more lucky.
For situational anxiety you could try propranolol or atenolol.
Why would you offer money and ask for emails?. And then you call people idios?. I believe you have a problem.

Edited by noos, 13 November 2011 - 01:06 AM.

[sam7777]

Meditation is extremely hard to do when in the "throws" of full blown mental problems. I do meditate rarely, when I am able to. It is mind blowingly life changing stuff, but I sympathize with someone who knows they are just in a position where they cannot get that part of their mind to turn on.

On a side note, this is a highly informative topic.

Edited by sam7777, 13 November 2011 - 03:37 AM.

[Nootr]

Find the Russian drug Tenoten. It really helps and has no side effects or weakening in time. It's a new type of drug - some antibodies to brain-specific protein S-100.

[chrono]

@markken: take it easy. To be blunt, your original post is a totally basic question, which can be boiled down to "what can I take for social anxiety besides nardil and clonazepam," and the offer of money is fairly bizarre. Don't start throwing insults around because you got a few predictably perfunctory responses suggesting treatments you made no mention of. Your money does not buy you an exemption from the rules, any more than it does easy answers to a question that's been asked several dozen times.

Toward that end, searching the board will yield more answers than people will be able to offer here. Use site:longeicity.org in a google search bar, as it will handle multiple search terms better than the current inline feature.

And those little questions would probably be just as easy to ask in a private message...one would think...

Edited by chrono, 13 November 2011 - 11:27 PM.

[chrono]

Find the Russian drug Tenoten. It really helps and has no side effects or weakening in time. It's a new type of drug - some antibodies to brain-specific protein S-100.

Have you actually tried this? If so, it would be great if you could give us some thoughts in this thread. Tenoten is something I'm very curious about, but also seems a little too good (and diluted) to be true.

[k10]

The only medications in my opinion that are capable of curing your social anxiety (Since Nardil bummed out on you) are:

Kanna + Kava Kava combo
GBL or GHB
or Memantine+low dose Dextroamphetamine

Let me know how your trials go

Dextroamphetamine is probaly the most powerful social anti-anxiety medication combined with pretty much anything. If you can get your hands on it you'll be very well off. Tolerance can be prevented with memantine so can be safely and effectively used long term to manage social anxiety.

Edited by k10, 14 November 2011 - 11:38 PM.

[Lufega]

I need a new computer. That money would come in handy. I write in a social anxiety forum under the name BEGGIATOA.

http://www.socialanx....com/forum/f11/

Off the top of my head, a combo of Lysine/arginine will pretty much wipe out anxiety. Manganese is also very helpful as it can protect dopaminergic neurons in the brain. Glycine taken at night will improve sleep quality and help diminish the negative symptoms of schizo which are commonly found in patients with SA. Glycine was also shown to restore glutathione levels in the brain which is likely the mechanism.

http://www.socialanx...solution-70691/

Ofcourse, magnesium does a good job in reducing anxiety and I have a few other interesting posts of other things that have worked for me. Selenium is one.

Lasting, fasting or just skipping breakfast increases Ghrelin levels which have a neuroprotective action in the brain. Fasting also increase catecholamines which will help with SA.

Edited by Lufega, 15 November 2011 - 02:01 AM.

[#1hit]

Generally, as far as a lasting solution for social anxiety goes, that can only be accomplished by changing your thoughts and stress response. Any substance you take to handle the symptoms of it will only work for a couple of hours, and generally don't do anything to cure the problem and can actually make it worse when your not using the substance. You don't want to have to rely on a capsule for your entire life, do you?

Start making positive lifestyle changes. Revamp your diet, eliminate grains from your diet, eat a lot of vegetables and quality meat, and use fish oil and other substances that have baseline, long term benefits for your brain, like ginkgo, gotu kola, lions mane, etc.

If your not atleast doing aerobic exercise 30 straight minutes a day, start building up to it, and exercise 4-6 times a week. Aerobic is best for mental/well being benefits, such as reducing anxiety in your cause, but resistance and interval training never hurt.

And learn to relax, whether its through progressive muscle relaxation, yoga, meditation, just sitting quietly, whatever floats your boat. You can't be anxious and relaxed at the same time, so whenever your relaxed your directly combating any anxiety. Invest that 500$ in a gym membership, some running shoes, a little fish oil and ginkgo, and a good book on meditation, etc. I know you'll overcome your social anxiety.

[sam7777]

I still have never heard more perfect advice than this guys post. This guy can save your life and give you a new life. Do not believe these wackos chuncking starvation diets and fruitarian diets at you. Do not believe that you must have total reliance on pills. Pills enhance life, but they cannot be the only thing that makes the difference between thriving and languishing. For many, it is just the opposite. I hardly see how having such a dependance on a pill is a good life. Surely it will be a matter of time before the said pill quits working, and you are too old, too sick, it is too late, and you are screwed.

http://www.longecity...re/page__st__30

[Geovicsha]

Interesting posts. There isn't a time that goes by when I browse this forum where I learn of a new nootropic/supplement that tickles my fancy.

I've currently been taking Aniracetam. The anti-anxiolytic affects seem to be most prevalent when first beginning.

[ViolettVol]

psychotherapy
there is no fucking magic pill for every problem

buy your friends a drink with this money.

anyway, piracetam helps some people with social inhibition ...

I actually wasted more than a year on psychotherapy , talk therapy, and I feel I'm in the same place i was and any progress ive had was from books i bought that taught me right thought pattersn because my psychotherapist just listened and offeren little or no advice and appeared ambivalent to my ideas on what to change to make myself better. After i stopped it, i actually took some pills for anxiety which allowed me to reach an important goal in life. unfortunately they were benzos so now im in withdrawal, but had i stayed in that same psychotherapy i might have been in worse shape cause it was causing total hopelessness.
I think talk therapy is good up to a point, cbt might be good but in the right circumstances. Good supps can help.
And dont advise peolpe in depressed state to buy drinks or go anywhere near drinks cause alcoholism is not what they want to develop.

[Thorsten3]

The only medications in my opinion that are capable of curing your social anxiety (Since Nardil bummed out on you) are:

Kanna + Kava Kava combo
GBL or GHB
or Memantine+low dose Dextroamphetamine

Let me know how your trials go

Dextroamphetamine is probaly the most powerful social anti-anxiety medication combined with pretty much anything. If you can get your hands on it you'll be very well off. Tolerance can be prevented with memantine so can be safely and effectively used long term to manage social anxiety.

OP please don't go anywhere near GBL/GHB.

[sam7777]

Based on my experience of spending 1000's of hours studying online forums about nutrition and lifestyle changes from as diverse of longecity nootropic, to curezone, and reading into spirituality and the different states of mind I have been able to put myself into using herbs- I have gleaned what I was often told...

That to begin to do any significant psychological recovery through therapy or working through hang ups you have and past problems, you must first take care of your physical health problems. Physical health problems are most nearly always at the root of mental illness.

The irony, is that we know mental problems cause physical illness. Yet, once you have the physical illness you must treat it first.

Would you rather feel lighting intelligent, calm, centered, focus, and creative and then try to sort out your life problems, hang ups, and feelings of self doubt. Or would you like to continue to try to do that with a fuzzy head, confused thoughts, uncertainty, malaise, and feeling of utter no motivation?

It is possible to have a clear healthy mind and still be emotionally mixed up. Perhaps many here have had success with nootropics, only to then fall right back into old states of malaise, simply because the original psychological causes were never address, and not to mention the physical problems that prevent those said psychological problems from being sorted.

Bad behavioral patterns and tendencies can destroy lives... as we all know.

[noos]

psychotherapy
there is no fucking magic pill for every problem

buy your friends a drink with this money.

anyway, piracetam helps some people with social inhibition ...

I actually wasted more than a year on psychotherapy , talk therapy, and I feel I'm in the same place i was and any progress ive had was from books i bought that taught me right thought pattersn because my psychotherapist just listened and offeren little or no advice and appeared ambivalent to my ideas on what to change to make myself better. After i stopped it, i actually took some pills for anxiety which allowed me to reach an important goal in life. unfortunately they were benzos so now im in withdrawal, but had i stayed in that same psychotherapy i might have been in worse shape cause it was causing total hopelessness.
I think talk therapy is good up to a point, cbt might be good but in the right circumstances. Good supps can help.
And dont advise peolpe in depressed state to buy drinks or go anywhere near drinks cause alcoholism is not what they want to develop.

'ViolettVol', may I ask:
What type of therapy you did?
Which books helped?
Which benzo you used? I don´t like clonazepam
Thanks

[medievil]

I didnt read the full thread but do you have any reward issues? Its possible your bordering more on avoidant personality disorder wich is best fixed with something like amphetamine unlike sa wich better responds to benzo's, in sa only anxiety is the issue and no motivational or reward related issues.

[medievil]

The only medications in my opinion that are capable of curing your social anxiety (Since Nardil bummed out on you) are:

Kanna + Kava Kava combo
GBL or GHB
or Memantine+low dose Dextroamphetamine

Let me know how your trials go

Dextroamphetamine is probaly the most powerful social anti-anxiety medication combined with pretty much anything. If you can get your hands on it you'll be very well off. Tolerance can be prevented with memantine so can be safely and effectively used long term to manage social anxiety.

OP please don't go anywhere near GBL/GHB.

I second this, lately im responding more normal to substances and i got to know what GBL is like for "normal ppl", the withdrawal was damn horrid.

[noos]

I didnt read the full thread but do you have any reward issues? Its possible your bordering more on avoidant personality disorder wich is best fixed with something like amphetamine unlike sa wich better responds to benzo's, in sa only anxiety is the issue and no motivational or reward related issues.

How do you differentiate both?
Avoidant does not avoid from fear?

Edited by noos, 15 November 2011 - 11:46 PM.