29 replies to this topic

[canz]

Hey all, In the quest for life extension and enhanced cognition I am also searching for the right combination of things (diet, supplements, exercise) to help alleviate the roller coaster of moods that I tend to have. I have had bouts of mild depression in the past along with some anxiety. I've taken moderate doses of wellbutrin and celexa for anxiety, but decided to get off of both a year ago because I felt like a "shell" of a person. The withdraws from both were hell, but I made it through. From some of the studies that I've read and through researching this board, I've come to the conclusion that those SSRIs may have had an impact on my emotional and mental well being. It is now my intent to rebuild my brain in the hopes that I can balance out whatever damage that I have done in the past through SSRI usage, excessive alcohol intake and anything else that has seemed to damage my brain.

I'd rather supplement with natural things along with a healthy diet and exercise (I eat healthy and exercise 5 times per week already) to maintain as much of an even frame of mind as possible. I have experimented with sulbutiamine, but based on the lack of research done on this supplement and the drastic mood changes that I've experienced with it I will no longer use it. I am currently using L-Tyrosine at 500mg 3x daily with decent results, but I feel that it could be better. Once I'm out of my L-Tyrosine I will be trying NAC L-Tyrosine. I've researched Lion's Mane and Bacopa for these purposes as well, just haven't decided if they are right for me or not. What are your suggestions for sustainable mood enhancers in the supplement form? I will also welcome food sources, but would like to supplement the food.

I am currently taking the following:

To raise HDL (mine is currently in the 20s)
Fish Oil: 3g
Virgin Coconut Oil: 3g
Olive Leaf extract: 1g

Pramiracetam: 150mg twice daily
Multi Vitamin: 1 daily
L-Tyrosine: 500mg x 3


I tried taking oxiracetam at 800mg twice per month, but starting feeling some anxiety towards the end of the month mark so I stopped. I have thought about taking oxi at 800mg in the morning and prami 150mg a few hours later in hopes that the prami's anxiolytic effects help alleviate the potential anxiety from oxi. I really enjoyed the oxiracetam so I'm hoping this works...any suggestions on this would be welcome as well.

When it comes down to it, I am not necessarily looking for more nootropics. Moreso supplements that will help alleviate chemical imbalance, and balance brain function.

*EDIT

So after reading Devon's post about Ginko Biloba I will be looking into considering it as a mood enhancer. I'm not sure about adding the Gotu Kolu or Ashwaganda because I don't want to experience too much of a sedating effect (may look into Zinc for that).

Edited by canz, 15 November 2011 - 02:11 PM.

[canz]

I also wanted to use pyritinol again (used it a few years ago with some success) but it seems there is a potential there for some harsh negative side effects.

[JLL]

I find that drinking rooibos tea puts me in a happy and relaxed mood. However, it doesn't seem to help with motivation and energy levels (like caffeine does), if that's what you're looking for.

Not sure about the fish oil and HDL... I don't take it myself, I think there are better alternatives for increasing HDL.

[Propoxy]

5-htp or l-tryptophan I'm bipolar and l-tryptophan has stop my angry moods just don't take with an ssri

good b vitamins for mood folic acid, B1 thiamin, B5 pantothenic acid and B12

magnesium

Edited by Propoxy, 15 November 2011 - 06:58 PM.

[Elus]

I take vitamin D (10,000 UI) every day. Helps my mood a lot, but of course this is just anecdotal evidence, and it could be a placebo.

[tintinet]

Tree nuts?

[Verne]

If Oxiracetam was working, but began to cause anxiety, you could lower the dosage or frequency of dosage.

Aniracetam might help. I'm sure if I hadn't been taking it that I would have had a panic attack at a recent appointment. Instead I just had a slightly elevated heartbeat and a straight face. Not a cure, but it helps.

Edited by Verne, 15 November 2011 - 10:08 PM.

[manic_racetam]

I have quite the daily fluctuation in moods myself. I'm most likely not bi-polar but notice some manic traits/behavior in myself. So far I haven't noticed any supplements that have been able to control it. But I've been taking Stablon (Tianeptine) for about two and a half weeks and honestly I've never had such a stable mood. I wouldn't mind being a little happier but it's really quite nice to know what to expect as far as mental states go.

Stablon is definitely a drug though, not a supplement, and a side effect was increased frequency of mood swings for the first 10 days or so in my case. I remember you mentioning something about having PVC's though. It's not listed as a side effect but I have experienced daily heart palpitations since the start of taking it. So, not really a recommendation but just sharing my experience.

[medievil]

Id say adaptogens like rhodiola.

[mattblack UK]

rhodiola is a very good mood enhancer ... in the short term. But I don't find it sustainable at all, tolerance quickly occurs. Ive tried quite a few herbs such as bacopa, sensoril, holy basil, lemon balm... but I haven't found anything that works better for me than 5-htp. Best balanced out with tyrosine if taken long term.

[canz]

5-htp or l-tryptophan I'm bipolar and l-tryptophan has stop my angry moods just don't take with an ssri

good b vitamins for mood folic acid, B1 thiamin, B5 pantothenic acid and B12

magnesium

What dosage have you found that is effective for you with 5-HTP or L-trytophan? Do you prefer one or the other? Do you take it at night? I used to take 5-HTP at night at 100mg, but it's been so long ago that I don't remember what the results were. I take a multivitamin currently (AOR Multi 3 Basic) so I'm sure I'm getting the B vitamins, but I may look into supplementing them seperately. I'm not trying to swallow hundreds of pills daily though.

If Oxiracetam was working, but began to cause anxiety, you could lower the dosage or frequency of dosage.

Aniracetam might help. I'm sure if I hadn't been taking it that I would have had a panic attack at a recent appointment. Instead I just had a slightly elevated heartbeat and a straight face. Not a cure, but it helps.

I have some aniracetam that I thought about combining with the oxiracetam for it's anxiolytic effects. First I'm going to try low doses of piracetam. What I don't want is to end up with brain fog because I'm combining two different noops. I started this morning with 800mg of oxiracetam, 3 hrs later 800mg piracetam, and will dose 800mg of piracetam in 3 more hours. If this doesn't work I will move to aniracetam. I really enjoyed aniracetam, but it made me very tired. I was extremely calm on it though.

I have quite the daily fluctuation in moods myself. I'm most likely not bi-polar but notice some manic traits/behavior in myself. So far I haven't noticed any supplements that have been able to control it. But I've been taking Stablon (Tianeptine) for about two and a half weeks and honestly I've never had such a stable mood. I wouldn't mind being a little happier but it's really quite nice to know what to expect as far as mental states go.

Stablon is definitely a drug though, not a supplement, and a side effect was increased frequency of mood swings for the first 10 days or so in my case. I remember you mentioning something about having PVC's though. It's not listed as a side effect but I have experienced daily heart palpitations since the start of taking it. So, not really a recommendation but just sharing my experience.

Yeah I'm trying to steer clear of pharmacueticals if I can, especially if there is the potential for it to exacerbate palpatations or PVCs. I understand that there is nothing that I can do about mood swings. I'm just looking to balance them better to alleviate the drastic changes.

rhodiola is a very good mood enhancer ... in the short term. But I don't find it sustainable at all, tolerance quickly occurs. Ive tried quite a few herbs such as bacopa, sensoril, holy basil, lemon balm... but I haven't found anything that works better for me than 5-htp. Best balanced out with tyrosine if taken long term.

I'm looking for more sustainable supplements. Of course I will end up taking a break from all supplements for 2 to 4 weeks at a time, but if a supplement has the potential to build tolerance then I feel like it has the same ability to create withdraw symptoms. What dose do you recommend for 5-HTP? I currently dose L-Tyrosine at 500mg 3x daily. I've thought about increasing the dose, but then again more is not always equal to better.

[Propoxy]

I take 1000mg of L-trytophan at night without food but with plenty of water as It can make you nauseous, I believe every 500mg of l-trytophan = 100mg of 5-htp. L-trytophan will take longer to work might take up to a week or two for depression, for my mood it took only couple days. Be sure to take it at night it will make you very tired and avoid taking it with any other amino acids or food high in protein. l-trytophan might also help with your anxiety. The recommend dose is 500-1500 daily.

Edited by Propoxy, 16 November 2011 - 06:23 AM.

[canz]

I take 1000mg of L-trytophan at night without food but with plenty of water as It can make you nauseous, I believe every 500mg of l-trytophan = 100mg of 5-htp. L-trytophan will take longer to work might take up to a week or two for depression, for my mood it took only couple days. Be sure to take it at night it will make you very tired and avoid taking it with any other amino acids or food high in protein. The recommend dose is 500-1500 daily.

I think I still have some 5-HTP from when I used it before. I will probably start at 100mg per night. One question to your comment about taking it with amino acids or foods high in protein; I plan on taking ZMA at night as well. Although more minerals than anything else, do you foresee any absorption issues or contraindications between the two?

[Propoxy]

If your going to take 5-htp for me 5-htp doesn't cause drowsiness so try taking it in the morning an hour before or after your tyrosine should be fine. 5-htp more a quick fix so it would be better to take it when you think you need it, thats why i stop and took tryptophan for 24 hour mood protection. The ZMA I don't know what all in it you just don't want multiple amino acids trying to cross the bbb.

Edited by Propoxy, 16 November 2011 - 06:35 AM.

[mattblack UK]

I used to take 750mg l-tyrosine first thing in the morning, then 100mg - 150mg of 5-htp in split doses for the rest of the day. Took about 3 days before I properly felt the benefits.

[JChief]

The Rosavin brand of Rhodiola has been studied extensively and when I took it I never had another panic attack. No kidding. But may I suggest piracetam as it in particular seems to demonstrate a slight antidepressant effect for me. I've wondered about L-Glutamine+ALCAR+Piracetam as well but haven't tried. The best mood booster I've tried is sulbutiamine. St Johns Wort extract taken a couple years ago would do this but would also make my pupils dilate and cause the halo effect that I got back when I used to take SSRIs. That seems like forever ago but yeah maybe just start with that Rhodiola first.

Edited by JChief, 16 November 2011 - 08:15 AM.

[canz]

If your going to take 5-htp for me 5-htp doesn't cause drowsiness so try taking it in the morning an hour before or after your tyrosine should be fine. 5-htp more a quick fix so it would be better to take it when you think you need it, thats why i stop and took tryptophan for 24 hour mood protection. The ZMA I don't know what all in it you just don't want multiple amino acids trying to cross the bbb.

So 5-htp is more quick release with a short half life while L-tryptophan is timed release with a longer half life? ZMA (Zinc Magnesium Aspartame) I don't think falls in line with aminos versus minerals, but I just wanted to verify.

[canz]

I used to take 750mg l-tyrosine first thing in the morning, then 100mg - 150mg of 5-htp in split doses for the rest of the day. Took about 3 days before I properly felt the benefits.

Thanks for the feedback. I will consider this as an option.

[canz]

The Rosavin brand of Rhodiola has been studied extensively and when I took it I never had another panic attack. No kidding. But may I suggest piracetam as it in particular seems to demonstrate a slight antidepressant effect for me. I've wondered about L-Glutamine+ALCAR+Piracetam as well but haven't tried. The best mood booster I've tried is sulbutiamine. St Johns Wort extract taken a couple years ago would do this but would also make my pupils dilate and cause the halo effect that I got back when I used to take SSRIs. That seems like forever ago but yeah maybe just start with that Rhodiola first.

I will look into it. I remember reading (other than in this thread) something about only gaining short term benefits from this because of tolerance. It still requires some more research on my part though. I will add it to my list of potential supplements. Thanks.

[sam7777]

Rhodiola is a cruel bitch. It gave me a life changing perspective of what my life could be like for 4 days then never worked again.

[pycnogenol]

I take vitamin D (10,000 UI) every day. Helps my mood a lot, but of course this is just anecdotal evidence, and it could be a placebo.

Same here at 7,500 IU daily. Vitamin D3 works great for mood as does low-strength DHEA (15 mg each AM).

[What'sAllThisThen]

SAMe and Krill/Fish Oil work great for me. Only need 200mg of SAMe 5 days a week after having taken 800mg and 400mg a day for awhile. In fact, I've forgotten to take my blister pack to work all week so i'm 5 days without any and no withdrawal symptoms. I think there's usually a slight depression, but I've upped my fish oil as of late and I think it's an improvement.

I ran out of Krill Oil about a month back after having reduced dosage due to a dwindling-supply/forgetfullness for a few weeks before that too, and that definitely effects my mood for the worse. So that was a lesson in needing my DHA/EPA for sure.

Both together are a nice balance for me in combating anxiety and minor depression. Haven't felt so well in years.

Edit: Guess I should add that I also take Vitamin D.

Edited by What'sAllThisThen, 17 November 2011 - 02:25 AM.

[nupi]

Does anyone have a view on the sustainability of Tianeptine? The Wikipedia article makes it sound a little too good to be true..

[JChief]

Rhodiola is a cruel bitch. It gave me a life changing perspective of what my life could be like for 4 days then never worked again.

Not to sound like a product peddler BUT.. was the Rhodiola you purchased the Rosavin brand? It's the only one I can attest to. And, if my experience with tongkat ali was any indication, I feel that certain brands of herbs are of higher quality/potency than others. Rosavin was clinically studied and was the sole reason why I no longer take benzos for panic attacks to this day.

Edited by JChief, 17 November 2011 - 10:06 AM.

[Introspecta]

Piracetam, Suboxone, and Ashwagandha. I'm on the Sub for past opiate abuse but now that i've been on it awhile and have gotten down to a lower dose it seems to boost my mood for a few hours after taking it. I don't recommend anyone get on it that doesn't need it. Still number 1 on the nootropics is Pirecatam for me. I'm trying out noopept which i have mixed results which may be due to my irradict doses

[sam7777]

I took solaray and I took Mind body spirit rhodiola. Now I have jarrows. Jarrow causes panic attacks... The cholinergic fury as I denote the effects of taking rhodiola with things and when I should not is not fun. I have underlying health problems so rhodiola does not work. Probably even adderall is incapable of inducing the feeling of euphoria in me. Ever since this summer when my body sort of told me to go screw myself and I started taking ashwaganda, my concrete declaritive memory is nonexistent, cannot follow conversations or instructions, am not "fully there", I suffer from bouts of amnesia, cannot remember my past parts of my life very well. All I got out of these herbs was a beard!

[nupi]

While we are on the topic of sustainability, how about Dopamine pre-cursors (notably L-Tyrosine and Mucuna derived L-Dopa)? Am I right in the assumption that they will cause down-regulation in short order?

[unregistered_user]

L-phenylalanine and t-theanine are both worth looking into. Fish oil helps stabilize my moods. I take 6-10g/day.

[canz]

L-phenylalanine and t-theanine are both worth looking into. Fish oil helps stabilize my moods. I take 6-10g/day.

From what I understand L-phenylalanine's effects are extremely short lived and builds a high tolerance unless I'm thikning of something else. I'm looking for things that the benefits will increase over time for more of a long term improvement.

[pycnogenol]

how about Dopamine pre-cursors (notably L-Tyrosine and Mucuna derived L-Dopa)?

I take Mucuna 2 to 3 times per week and it helps with focus, mood, and overall arousal.