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Epitalon (Split from Astragalus thread)


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#31 1kgcoffee

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 08:11 PM

My hamster isn't old, but told me he'd be down for at least 6 months as a preventative measure.

Would it better to administer sublingually or as eye drops (to my hamster)?

Are hamsters allowed by the FDA, or just rats?

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 20 December 2011 - 08:12 PM.


#32 hav

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:52 PM

3 to 6 months supply sounds good... Any idea how long it might keep?

Drops or spray sound practical. Maybe add it to a neti wash?

Howard


#33 sciwalk

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 08:25 AM

Sorry, I was kinda busy over the holidays and also, on Christmas Day, threw out my back. :S Have not been able to hit the gym with the kids out of school and now that they are back in I still can't work out because of my back which is most likely because I was out of the gym in the first place, aaarrrgggg.
Anyway, the ephitalon is supposed to be here some time this week. I had some other friends and family members that wanted to "get on board" so I upped the quantity quite a bit. I did not realize that there would be so many people interested in this but I guess if there is anyone else who wants some, without having to buy multiple grams, I can send you some in 100mg quantities but the price per mg is higher of course.
Just to clarify, I took my original, very low dose for a short time, disolved in sodium cloride. It was measured by the drop into a bottle with dropper so that the amount of peptide I had would be divided into the number of drops and thereby able to calculate my dose. I took it sublinqual. This first testing I did was more then anything just a way for me to confirm that I was not going to have any kind of ill effect from taking it, allergic reaction or such.
Yes, you can get a test for your telomere length and that would truely be a definative (clinical and fast) way of knowing that it was doing its job. Unfortunately, despite checking a ton of clinics, I cannot find one here that can or will perform that testing for me. So, I am going to have to rely upon feelings which are subjective, and, visual such as loss of gray hear, loss of wrinkles and such. However, it is my guess that those are not going to happen over night. It took me 50 years to get this way, I guess it will at least take a couple of years to see any significant change in the other direction. At the very least, over the course of the next few years, if I don't get more gray or more wrinkles I will be happy.
The other major point to the epitholan, which again could be put to placebo, is that it is supposed to increase your melatonin production. I think I might be able to find someone who can test my melatonin levels, that might be easer, but even if I can't, and I had some reaction to the small amount already in my view, when I was taking the peptide before I was sleeping like a baby at night and a very deep sleep. I also used to fall asleep at the computer duing the day and that also went away (probably the result of sleeping at night again).
This time around I am going to mix the epithalon with DMSO, measuring out by the drop again to know my doseage, and I will be applying to my skin. It is an extremely small peptide (a tetrapeptide) only 4 amino acids so it will pass through the skin quite well. The lab has also done considerable testing on the logevity and it is very stable so I feel very comfortable about applying to the skin.

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#34 Ampa-omega

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 08:06 AM

bump for more info

Can someone explain why they would want to use this instead of the astragalus based telomerase activators?
Is epitalon more potent, or activate certain cells that would make it more preferable? whats the reason for using this peptide?

#35 sciwalk

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 08:28 AM

What makes someone want to try astragalus in the first place? The answer to that is also the answer to trying Epitholan.
Why try at all? Data, hope, plan for a positive reaction.
Apart from the that, it is fairly well documented that Asragalus can help with maintaining, or in the case of TA-65, replenish up to the extent of the longest telomere, but so far there is no clear lab research to show that it can over come the hayflick limit. Where as, Epithalon has been proven, in the lab, not only to be able to over come the hayflick limit, to some extent, but also can inhibit cancer and up regulates melatonin.

http://morelife.org/...rs/12937682.pdf
http://mt.china-papers.com/2/?p=111228

So, as I said before, the why is in the try and the try is in percieved hope.
I hope that helps? :)

#36 sciwalk

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 08:30 AM

I replied but with links to some lab results. I guess having something that was a link set of bells so it has to be reviewed by an admin first. Hopefully it wont take too long.

#37 Ampa-omega

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 09:34 AM

What makes someone want to try astragalus in the first place? The answer to that is also the answer to trying Epitholan.
Why try at all? Data, hope, plan for a positive reaction.
Apart from the that, it is fairly well documented that Asragalus can help with maintaining, or in the case of TA-65, replenish up to the extent of the longest telomere, but so far there is no clear lab research to show that it can over come the hayflick limit. Where as, Epithalon has been proven, in the lab, not only to be able to over come the hayflick limit, to some extent, but also can inhibit cancer and up regulates melatonin.

http://morelife.org/...rs/12937682.pdf
http://mt.china-papers.com/2/?p=111228

So, as I said before, the why is in the try and the try is in percieved hope.
I hope that helps? :)


thanks, this is a pretty old telomere activator in comparison to astragalus, is it stronger than the astragalus molecules?i guess i mean, would it be preferable from a cost to potency basis, understandably, that data may not be totally available.

Edited by Ampa-omega, 04 January 2012 - 09:35 AM.


#38 sciwalk

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 11:19 AM

Astragalus has been used by the Chinese for over 2000 years. In fact the major extracted compounds that are found to have the greatest affinity for Telemorase activity have been isolated and extracted for some time now (TAT1 and TAT2). Not 2000 years but at least as long as Epithalon and have obviously been taken by humans since that time. TAT2 is basically Cycloastragenol which is the key ingredient in TA-65 which is why it is so expensive (Because TAT2 is off the charts expensive, more then the price of gold). And yet, even taking straight TAT2 has not proven to elongate telomeres. It is proven to increase Telomerase activity which can help protect but will not over come the Hayflick Limit.
Astragalus, more specifically extracted Cycloastragenol, will make you healther and protect your telomeres so can help to give you longer life in that respect.
In "my opinion" it will have to be something else to roll back the hands of time.
If Epithalon gains greater demand in the short term the price will drop quite a bit and will be much easier to get in smaller quantities. However, if it seriously does what it should do, a bit later and it will probably cost more then its weight in cryptonite. Either way, right now, it is cheaper then Cycloastragenol and does more in lab testing.
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#39 AdamI

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 11:35 AM

there is only one cryptonit mine in the world soo far, I think infact it's already more expensive with Epitalon:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6584229.stm
Now obviously you weren't serious:)

Edited by AdamI, 04 January 2012 - 11:35 AM.


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#40 sciwalk

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 11:38 AM

LOL, thanks, I love that kind of stuff. :) Now we just need a Superman!

#41 Ampa-omega

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 12:18 PM

has there been any scientific comparison of epithalon vs the astragalus molecules, i mean by this time a scientist would have examined both in comparison, right?

#42 AdamI

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 12:21 PM

I'm personally going to test it soon I hope. And that is the reason you kinda point to. There is not that much fact one can find on epitalon.
In my opinion anyway.
Soo better to just test it for awhile then, it's obviously harmless

#43 AdamI

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 12:21 PM

I'm personally going to test it soon I hope. And that is the reason you kinda point to. There is not that much fact one can find on epitalon.
In my opinion anyway.
Soo better to just test it for awhile then, it's obviously harmless

#44 Ampa-omega

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 12:30 PM

i think im going to get this instead of cyloastrogenol, but after more evidence .particulary in vivo. that it would work better, it seems interesting

Edited by Ampa-omega, 04 January 2012 - 12:31 PM.


#45 sciwalk

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 02:42 PM

has there been any scientific comparison of epithalon vs the astragalus molecules, i mean by this time a scientist would have examined both in comparison, right?



That is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. I can't see any reason for "scientists" to compare the two against each other. Cyloastrogenol basically does a major boost on your immune system and allows your body to do the best that it can to repair itself.
Epitalon is a whole other ball game. It is a synthesized replica of a substance produced by your penile gland and attaches to receptors through out your body that cause Telemorase.
Labs that want to sell Cyloastrogenol will continue to do studies on it and labs that want to sell Epitalon will continue to do studies on that. You can compare the results yourself from the lab reports based on what you want to check for. RIght now there are a ton of tests being done for a wide variety of things with Epitalon and probably for Cyloastrogenol also. Just google them and you can find a ton of stuff.

If you would like to know more about Epitalon (a.k.a. Epithalon) you can buy a research article covering the last 13 years of testing done by Vladimer Anisimov and Valdimer Khavinson (the patent holder for the peptide in Russia and a hand full of other EU countries). It is called, "Peptide bioregulation of aging: results and prospects". I think SpringerLink sells a PDF version that you an download? In fact they isolated serveral other tetrapeptides from the penile and other organs of the body to find many different ones that can have tremendous effects in the field of Biogerontology. Khavinson's story is quite an amazing one and the guy looks remarkably young for his age. :O

#46 AdamI

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 02:55 PM

A question, there is two places in the body were telomerase exist. In our genetials and some in our spine where the immunsystem is created. If I get it right. Soo I'm wondering how does the Epitalon that is produced in the penile gland get to the genitalias? The Spine is quite near soo no problem there...
What I was thinking is, is there maybe some other substance that is produced to make the genitalias (seed/eggs), to stay young. That the spine don't get?
Am I completly off? Have there been any discoveries on this area?

#47 Hebbeh

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 05:01 PM

AdamI....I think you are completely confused. And it's pineal gland...in the brain....not penile gland....and nothing to do with the genitalia.
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#48 sciwalk

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:07 PM

Yes, pineal, that is what I get for trying to type in the middle of the night, my bad. But to answer Adam and be more specific, Telomerase is an enzyme that adds DNA sequence repeats to the ends of the DNA strands in the telomere regions, at the ends of your chromosomes. This happens in every cell of your entire body. Yes, it is true that Telomerase is most abundant in your immune system and in your reproductive organs but Telomorase can and will be carried through out the body. Epitalon is not produced in the reproductive or immune system. Epitalon is a synthetic tetrapeptide that will cause your body to produce Telomorase and thereby protect and repair your Telomeres. Now, it is 2:00 in the morning so I better get some sleep and avoid making any more typos thus leading to confusion. Or am I confused about that? :)
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#49 AdamI

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:14 PM

yeah I know of the telomerase and soo forth. But what my question was, if epitalon that is produced in a gland in the brain is used by the cells in the spine. Since there are two cell types in our body that have telomerase activity and that is the genital reproducing cells and the immune system that is in the spine.
Soo my question was is the gland in the brain also producing epitalon for the spine? Produces epitalon soo that the cells in the spine, can active the telomerase production?
And is there a way to maybe stimulate the bodys own production of Epitalon?

#50 Hebbeh

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:23 PM

Good explanation and great information, sciwalk. And as sciwalk stated, Epitalon is an analog of a hormone produced by the pineal gland in the brain with global effects throughout the body. One of the global effects of Epitalon is the lengthening of telemeres..hopefully and ideally, as sciwalk stated, in every single healthy cell of the body....hopefully making your chromosomes young again.

#51 Ampa-omega

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 11:41 PM

thanks for the heads up for research sources sciwalk,will look at that, i find it interesting that perhaps this may be a "overlooked" telomere activator, if thats what you guys are implying, you want to use epitalon as it might actually have an effect on telomeres that cyloastrogenol doesnt,
i also dont see the reason to take both cycloastrogenol and epitalon if one may actually have an significant effect

#52 Hebbeh

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 12:15 AM

thanks for the heads up for research sources sciwalk,will look at that, i find it interesting that perhaps this may be a "overlooked" telomere activator, if thats what you guys are implying, you want to use epitalon as it might actually have an effect on telomeres that cyloastrogenol doesnt,
i also dont see the reason to take both cycloastrogenol and epitalon if one may actually have an significant effect


Epitalon has been around for quite awhile but overlooked perhaps due to being a Russian drug...much like Noopept I guess. There are Russian studies that look promising.

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#53 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 05:13 AM

sciwalk,

Can you IM me with info about it, or do we have enough folks who want to join in on a purchase from the source that SmithX mentioned? I certainly would like to have our Dr. ty it in a petri dish, then maybe on a big mouse...

A
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#54 mpe

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:40 AM

Can I get 2 shares?

#55 boylan

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:03 PM

sciwalk,

Can you IM me with info about it, or do we have enough folks who want to join in on a purchase from the source that SmithX mentioned? I certainly would like to have our Dr. ty it in a petri dish, then maybe on a big mouse...

A


I have a rodent that is interested.

#56 smithx

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 08:45 PM

My choice would be Genscript. Their quality is known to be excellent: most of the research labs I know of use them to produce reagents.

sciwalk,

Can you IM me with info about it, or do we have enough folks who want to join in on a purchase from the source that SmithX mentioned? I certainly would like to have our Dr. ty it in a petri dish, then maybe on a big mouse...

A



#57 sciwalk

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:34 AM

I guess I cannot send more then 2 PM's in a day so, if someone wants to reach me personally I can tell you that I like yahoo and my name is consistant: sciwalk.

I am having a heck of a time trying to find DMSO. Does anyone know where I can buy some and will ship to Hong Kong? I did find one company online that would ship here but the DMSO was $8 and the shipping was $47, LOL

#58 johnross47

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 08:46 PM

http://www.demogr.mp...pitalon-SHR.pdf
before you get carried away you should read the whole of this paper. The crucial facts are in the tables and graphs at the end. The epitalon treated group had a lower average life span. If you want to gamble on being in the lucky 10% who had an extended life span by all means try it.
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#59 niner

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 11:04 PM

before you get carried away you should read the whole of this paper. The crucial facts are in the tables and graphs at the end. The epitalon treated group had a lower average life span.


Interesting. Note the food consumption in table 2: The epitalon mice were little oinkers! Except for the 3 and 18 month numbers, the epitalon mice were eating close to twice as much as the controls. Same body weight and temp though. The median lifespan was lower, but looking at the survival curves, it doesn't actually look that bad. About 20% of the mice died very young, and I think that may be skewing the statistics a bit. Probably was some bad husbandry there. The survival number that reaches statistical significance is the last 10%, so that's more likely to be a real signal than the other numbers. You do raise a good point regarding the risk/reward calculation- you have a 90% chance of at best no result, if you are anything like a female SHR mouse.
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#60 hav

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 06:32 PM

http://www.demogr.mp...pitalon-SHR.pdf
before you get carried away you should read the whole of this paper. The crucial facts are in the tables and graphs at the end. The epitalon treated group had a lower average life span. If you want to gamble on being in the lucky 10% who had an extended life span by all means try it.


The paper doesn't say that. And nether does the data nor the charts. The charts show no visual difference between the control and test groups except near the end. The data summaries also show the same with an error-rate that far exceeds and difference between the groups except in the last 10% of the lifespans. Although there is no printed data summary for the 1st 90% of lifespans (only for the full 100% set and last 10% subset), the fist 90% as a subset can be calculated by simple arithmetic and it too has an error-rate far in excess of the calculated difference between the groups. This renders the counted difference in the 1st 90% subset statistically insignificant.

These results are really what I'd expect. Supporting the proposition that telomerase activation extends lifespan without any life-shortening side effects like causing cancer or tumors. I wouldn't expect telomerase activation to impact early death from causes not related to age. I didn't expect the weight/eating stats, however. Make me wonder what the numbers might have shown if an effort was made to hold eating more constant. Perhaps a loss in weight and maybe a further increase in telomerase activation as would be normally associated with caloric restriction?

Howard
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