51 replies to this topic

[drmz]

You can buy 5 pounds of Centrolex de-oiled lecithin granules for 18 dollars at Bulkfoods.com.

I bought my lecithin over there....good service..fast ! and cheap

[REGIMEN]

hey lynx,
where is info on "transport competitors" of choline such as inositol? I am considering taking inositol and already take AlphaGPC. Would supplementing inositol make the AlphaGPC inactive?

[drmz]

hey lynx,
where is info on "transport competitors" of choline such as inositol?  I am considering taking inositol and already take AlphaGPC.  Would supplementing inositol make the AlphaGPC inactive?

Choline sources and ALPHA GPC use the same transporter systems as far as i know...I'll dig up some articles later this day

[silas]

Only negative effect i notice every day is some sort of pressure behind my eyes, a "heavy" feeling behind my eyes...i cant describe it propperly. It's no headache but just an overall wierd feeling behind my eyes. I can't figure out what is causing this. I tried going up and down with the Alpha-GPC and piracetam intake but it doesn't change much.

Try cutting out the ginko. I had exactly the same problem. At the time, I was taking -only- ginko and noticed it almost immediately.

[REGIMEN]

My overal mood is better, only during the evening i seem a bit more lethargic.

-drmz

This happens with me and I have a feeling that with the increased brain activity the workings of your body are also noticed with more clarity. It's late and your body says so too. I take that as a good sign.

[wannafulfill]

Only negative effect i notice every day is some sort of pressure behind my eyes, a "heavy" feeling behind my eyes...i cant describe it propperly. It's no headache but just an overall wierd feeling behind my eyes. I can't figure out what is causing this. I tried going up and down with the Alpha-GPC and piracetam intake but it doesn't change much.

any ideas welcome ...

For me, I went to the opthamologist. I had temporary symptoms on acute angle glaucoma. This means when I moved my eyes away from looking directly ahead I had mild pain behind and slightly above my eyes. You should notice it when you try to look to the extreme sides of your vision. It is caused by increased pressure in the eye. We believe the trigger was lack of acetylcholine. I highly recommend lowering your ALCAR dose significantly. This drug, more than the racetams and whatever else I was taking was causing this. It has since gone away. I still take alcar, but I can only take 500-600 mgs at once and I take it twice a day. Your problem may be different, but it is most likely the crash from post alcar or racetam or any other choline depleting substance. Good luck!

[drmz]

This an extract from my post on avantlabs ( http://forum.avantla...showtopic=15285 )

I really need some good help on this one ...Hope somebody has some time left to look at the topic and the text pasted below....


i'm still feeling wierd being on this stack. Even with low to moderate doses i'm usually very dizzy. Sometimes it's even a problem to walk in a straight line when i talk to somebody else while walking, especially when i look at the right or left when talking to a person .Looking up when walking makes me walk like a drunk person.

Even bringing a cup of coffee to my mounth while walking seems difficult.

I think i look like a stoned person for somebody who talks to me....
I start to sweat after every move i make .....even when walking to the coffee machine ( 20 meters ) .


After about 6-7 in the evening, after a workout , this feeling disappears. I stopped training today for the third time because i was too dizzy to walk safely with weights around the gym.

What could be the cause in a normal moderate nootropic stack ? ( mentioned in this post )

any help welcome, this is getting a serious problem . Today i only took ALCAR and the light headed feeling seems to come with waves now instead of a continious feeling of discomfort. My mind and head floats instead of being focused ( not my thoughts )

[enemy]

That sounds like a neurotransmitter depletion.

Most likely suspects: acetylcholine or serotonin

[drmz]

Wouldn't i be depressed if serotonin or acetylcholine was depleted ?? ( anxiety etc etc )

I'm totally relaxed and not depressed.

[drmz]

Things are still the same.No nootropics @all. Only multi-vits, fish oil and ashwagandha. Dizzyness is getting slightly better, but i had a terrible day today, dizzy, unfocused, mental fog, staring, pressure behind eyes .Made an appointment with my doc again. Last time he thought it was hyperventilation. I really don''t believe in that.

[wannafulfill]

man that is disappointing to hear, I suggest seeing another doctor

did you tell him or her about your past experience with nootropics?

good luck!

[drmz]

I didn't tell him anything about the nootropics. I have got a very old fashioned doctor and he wouldn't understand a word if i would try to explain. So i didn't bother mentioning it. I will tell the story at the neurologist this friday, i have got an appointment. I really need a quick sollution and i hope there is one. Almost took the day of today because i felt like this again. ( still feeling wacked now ). I have no job at which you can sit down and do your work without interacting with people, walking around etc etc. This becomes very difficult when even walking is problematic....Ahwell we will see what the neurologist says friday.

[spider]

"I will tell the story at the neurologist this friday, i have got an appointment. " (drmz)

Please, keep us informed drmz and I hope that this neurologist knows the answer to your problem.

[wannafulfill]

Do you have a feeling about which nootropic(s) led to your problems?

[drmz]

I really don't know which nootropic led to my problems and IF one of the nootropics led to this problem. It's hard to say. I'm off nootropics for quite a while now and things don't get better. So it's hard to blame the nootropics. My guess would be ALCAR, but i cant find a good reason for that. I don't really know much about the dopaminergic system, but i stopped smoking 10 months ago. I started to smoke only in the weekend when i started the nootropics....Could this create a continious imbalance in a system that might cause this symptoms ?
Lifemirage thought off an oversensitive acetylcholine receptors...But by now they should be normal again. Although eggs make me feel VERY sick at the moment...so it's probably something with my cholinergic system. I can't tell and i didn't dig on google to find answers, because i thought it would only complicate things. There is no reason on a day like this that explains this feeling. Today i woke up with the feeling and am still having it now. late in the evening. Usually i feel the onset at about 10-11 in the morning and it disappears at 6-7 in the evening.

[drmz]

wierd thing is that after a good cardio work out, things seems MUCH better then during the day/workout . 3-4 hours after the cardio workout i feel the onset of the feeling again.

any ideas ?

[REGIMEN]

What kind of testing have you had done to date? What were the results?

I read the symptoms you related(and forgive me if my book below implies I missed something you said) and I personally had many of the same experiences during the last two years while dealing with thyroiditis, "IBS"/food allergies/bacterial dysbiosis/candida/stomachproblems, and to a lesser extent MONO (taxing on liver). In retrospect, I realized that my vitamins were making me foggy, unfocused, and irritable, as were fishoilpills, during the period of onset for the stomach problems I mentioned. I stopped taking them during that time and the intensity of those feelings subsided.
***I would take nothing at all as far as supplements and nootropics until getting a diagnosis that produces some positive results from the prescribed treatment.

I'm not saying that you have any of the things I mentioned, but you may need to consider that your symptoms are:
1) not caused by your supplements/noops at all;
2) your body's reactions to its inability to properly assimilate that involved supp'stack you, ahem, piledrived;
3) perceptually amplified by your supplements, to which they are inferred as attributable to another root problem;
4) a possible ascendance of allergies or some kind of reaction to environmental conditions(ie. poor ventialtion, mold, etc.);
5) whatever Lifemirage thinks. (a poke at the pope... [sfty] not that he deserves it...oh the life of celebrity...)

As example, I personally just had some allergy tests done and I have an unexpected high reactivity to *dust*, and then a few other food items. I knew some food items were implicated as I had super bad periods of depression for a couple of days after eating certain things, but dust? My point is that it may be something for which your chosen specialist for the week may have no test for in their bag of test-goodies. I got turned away from two endocrinologists when blood test results came back "normal"...it wasn't a recurrent thyroid/endocrine problem so they couldn't do anything. Not that I'm even completely sure now of what my problem was, but Florastor(probiotic) and a allergy-food reduced diet have helped significantly. No more depression! Yay! So, yeah, go get'em drmz..." 'em" being a number of specialist doctor types to corner and identify your problem. Maybe an internist, first, to guide you.

Edited by liplex, 09 July 2005 - 11:32 PM.

[drmz]

thanks for the informative post liplex !

i thought about several causes myself. I changed food patterns, slept with an open window, changed sport intensity, stopped drinking coffee, changing between different sorts of breakfast and so on...i stopped taking fish oil. multi vit's. anything ... i played around with protien shakes / carbohydrate shakes and more of that ...Just to see if it has something to do with a certain pattern in my life.

Only thing i can think of is an extreme blood sugar drop....i dont know enough about it to be sure. Eyes go wide open, dry mounth, light head and more of that.
How can you counteract blood sugar drops...just for a test.

My neurologist visit was a disaster. Apperently he tried to cover up his knowledge about nootropics by "frightening stories"about using them.
He thought i had a concussion . i was in a minor car accident. But he didn't get the message when i told him i felt the same weeks before the accident. I'm getting an MRI scan and a CAT scan ( or ct scan ) in 5 weeks !! Now i need to manage pulling myself through this 5 weeks on work. thank god it's vacation time .....

I can imagine me getting allergic that fast for something after 27 years. I have been tested several times in the past for alot of different things. All negative.

I really dont know which way i need to go now. just wait 5 weeks for the MRI scan to hear nothing is physically wrong ?? Make another appointment with my doc to see an internist or something..........

[REGIMEN]

Consider checking into some mail-in type testing if you haven't already.

www.neurorelief.com
www.chronicneurotoxins.com

I'm sure there are more out there. I've only had experience with the first. No problems, but they do have their own line of products to combat any ill results found in testing with a regimen advisement as part of the test results so make what you will of that.

[drmz]

4 weeks later and still walking around with the same problem. Did an MRI + cat scan an awaiting the results.
Next week some blood tests and some other test. This stupid feeling makes me act like a 10 year old during the day. Dividing 20 by 4 is a problem during 50% of the day.
The main symptom is that my eyes seem to be more opened/staring...as if i sniffed some ampethamines.I don't drink or use any stimulants.I dont feel amped.
After the feeling in my eyes the whole chaotic feeling overwhelms me.

dextrose and other sugars don't make things better or worse.

any ideas still welcome.

[worldeater]

Hey drmz, any updates?

[drmz]

yeah there are some updates. I'm still feeling exactly the same during the day. eye twitches, dizzy, pressure behind the eyes.....

I had an MRI scan with no results, went to check my eyes , no results. I am completely clueless about what is causing the symptoms. It must be something logical. I always have it on the same days @ the same time.

I don't think the nootropics are the cause because after 8 months or so the symptoms should have disappeared. But they are still there......and it's not much fun :(