20 replies to this topic

[ViolettVol]

So I've been wondering, do you know any topicals or supplements that help skin get thicker so it does not thin out with age and develop wrinkles and sag so fast?

[Stefanovic]

read many good reviews on neocell collagen, but need more info to know if it's a good way to go

[GhostBuster]

DMAE

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20095140

However, I think centrophenoxine is a superior form of DMAE and (a bonus!) seems to work well when taken orally.

http://www.sciencedi...531556582900407

[ViolettVol]

DMAE

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20095140

However, I think centrophenoxine is a superior form of DMAE and (a bonus!) seems to work well when taken orally.

http://www.sciencedi...531556582900407

and they both have effects on skIn not juts brain?

[GhostBuster]

DMAE

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20095140

However, I think centrophenoxine is a superior form of DMAE and (a bonus!) seems to work well when taken orally.

http://www.sciencedi...531556582900407

and they both have effects on skIn not juts brain?

Yep, you can google to find user reports.

[smithx]

DMAE

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20095140

However, I think centrophenoxine is a superior form of DMAE and (a bonus!) seems to work well when taken orally.

http://www.sciencedi...531556582900407

It appears that the DMAE is just adding water to the skin, and thereby making it temporarily thicker. The other link is broken currently.

myristyl nicotinate did increase the thickness of photodamaged skin by 20% in a study cited here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17518989

It's currently available most economically (but not very economically) in Stri-Vectin SD.

Topical niacin may work too, and is available much less expensively.

[Dorho]

About topical DMAE:

The antiwrinkle effect of topical concentrated 2-dimethylaminoethanol involves a vacuolar cytopathology.

Morissette G, Germain L, Marceau F.

Source

Centre de Recherche en Rhumatologie et Immunologie, Centre Hospitalier Universitaire de Québec, Québec QC, Canada.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

The 'cosmeceutical' agent 2-dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE) is a tertiary amine found in high concentration in numerous topical antiwrinkle preparations.
OBJECTIVES:

We hypothesized that a 337 mmol L(-1) (3%) DMAE reservoir applied to the skin could reproduce the cytopathology induced by other amines by maintaining a millimolar drug concentration within a certain depth of the skin layers, and that vacuolar cell expansion could account for the very rapid effect on the apparent skin fullness.
METHODS:

Morphological and functional assays were applied to cultured rabbit dermal fibroblasts treated with tertiary amines in vitro. A morphological verification of the vacuolization caused by topical DMAE was also attempted in vivo using the inner skin of the rabbit ear and in vitro using primary cultures of human cutaneous epithelial cells.
RESULTS:

Fibroblasts responded to DMAE (2.5-10 mmol L(-1)) by massive vacuolization (0.5-4 h; phase contrast observations). Triethanolamine, another chemical frequently used topically, was also active in this respect (10 mmol L(-1)). The vacuolar adenosine triphosphatase inhibitor bafilomycin A1 prevented DMAE- or triethanolamine-induced vacuolization; adding bafilomycin A1 or cell washout slowly reversed the established vacuolization induced by DMAE. Further effects of DMAE in cultured fibroblasts included a moderate cytotoxicity (10 mmol L(-1)) that was abated by bafilomycin A1 cotreatment, a concentration-dependent mitotic arrest (2.5 mmol L(-1)) and transient and mild effects on cell ploidy. The epidermis of the rabbit external ear was significantly thickened and exhibited clear perinuclear swelling indicative of vacuolization in response to 3% DMAE (1 h; paraffin tissue sections). Cultured human cutaneous epithelial cells responded to DMAE by vacuolization (inhibited by bafilomycin A1 cotreatment).
CONCLUSIONS:

The vacuolar cytopathology induced by concentrated organic amines may be the cellular basis of the antiwrinkle effect of DMAE.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17300230

Edited by Dorho, 07 January 2012 - 11:37 PM.

[kiracle]

Isn't beta glucans supposed to do this as well? I am not sure how it compares to the other substances mentioned, but it is inexpensive.

[niner]

Isn't beta glucans supposed to do this as well? I am not sure how it compares to the other substances mentioned, but it is inexpensive.

Beta glucans are one of the ingredients in Juvess, a skin cream developed by one of our members.

[kiracle]

Yes, I tried a jar of that. I didn't use it long enough to test it effectiveness. I am mostly doing diy moisturizers now.

[smithx]

According to this study, myristyl nicotinate increased the thickness of sun-damaged skin by 70%:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17518989

More discussion is here:
http://www.longecity...al-niacinamide/

One issue: it's a patented molecule and is only available in a couple of products. The most economical one, which is not economical at all, is new formula StriVectin SD.

If you are tempted to get cheap StiVectin on eBay, be careful because a lot of counterfeit product is out there. I would not purchase any which does not come in a real box with all the literature, and if the seal on the tube is not metal, it's definitely fake.

[niner]

Nia24 is a commercial product containing myristyl nicotinate. I don't know exactly how much, but it's the second ingredient listed after water, fwiw. It's very well-reviewed at amazon. $58 for 1.7 oz. Not cheap, but not the worst thing out there by a longshot. I've really been impressed with a cleanser with niacinamide that I've been using (SebaMed)

[happy lemon]

......I've really been impressed with a cleanser with niacinamide that I've been using (SebaMed)

Is it this one you referred to?

http://www.sebamedusa.com/401.html

It contains SLS....it worries me as my skin is pretty sensitive; though this cleanser is said to be for sensitive skin.

[niner]

......I've really been impressed with a cleanser with niacinamide that I've been using (SebaMed)

Is it this one you referred to?

http://www.sebamedusa.com/401.html

It contains SLS....it worries me as my skin is pretty sensitive; though this cleanser is said to be for sensitive skin.

Yeah. I picked up a gigantic bottle (a liter) at Costco for $14. At the time, I was just looking for a gentle body wash. When I opened the stuff, I hated the smell, which reminded me of gas station bathroom soap. After the bottle had been open enough times, the smell faded. Meanwhile, I figured out that it was doing something really good for my face. Costco doesn't have it any more, so now I'm hoarding what I have left, in view of the street price.

[smithx]

Nia24 is a commercial product containing myristyl nicotinate. I don't know exactly how much, but it's the second ingredient listed after water, fwiw. It's very well-reviewed at amazon. $58 for 1.7 oz. Not cheap, but not the worst thing out there by a longshot. I've really been impressed with a cleanser with niacinamide that I've been using (SebaMed)

StriVectin is more economical, at about $100 or so, discounted (for the real thing) for 5 oz of an 8% myristyl nicotinate cream.

Edited by smithx, 13 March 2012 - 12:01 PM.

[Delorean]

I have had really bad dark circles around my eyes for years now and i'm pretty certain it's mainly due to thinned skin so would these treatments be applicable to me?

[PGN]

Hi, new here. The skin around the eye is normally thin anyway. I think the dark circles are primarily due to lack of circulation, causing blood vessels around the eye to be congested.. Not sure what topical would work on that though.

As for thickening the skin, I've used the 302 Skincare line for years and it's really helped my skin. It contains Avogen which is a molecule found in avocados. Avogen just came out as a supplement for skin/hair/nails. Haven't tried the supplements yet. It's not cheap but it may help. On their website, they have a picture of a punch biopsy showing the improvement in epidermal thickness after 30 days.

[jimmy1]

Any info on n-a-g? I have heard good things about IT.

[mustardseed41]

Great stuff. I use it twice a day in a serum I make.

NAG is proven effective in combination with niacinamide/ Vitamin B3 to be effective in reducing melanin production in culture. In vitro, glucosamine reduces production of melanin by inhibiting activation of tyrosinase , while niacinamide inhibits melanosome transfer from melanocytes to keratinocytes .
NAG in combination with niacinamide 2% NAG and 4% niaciniamide in a trial of two groups of 100 women between the ages of 40 and 60 years suffering from melanized hyper-pigmented spots vs. a vehicle control, applied topically, full-face, twice-daily for 8 weeks demonstrated clear treatment effects for the NAG + N combination vs vehicle. Resulting in significant melanin spot area reduction and increase in melanin evenness.

NAG in combination with niacinamide is an effective actives combination in evening out skin tone, improving endogenous hyaluronic acid production, reducing TEWL and the signs of wrinkling.
Hakozaki T, Minwalla L, Zhuang J, et al. The effect of niacinamide on reducing cutaneous pigmentation and suppression of melanosome transfer. Br J Dermatol. 2002;147:20¿31.
Bissett DL, Robinson LR, Raleigh PS, et al. Reduction in the appearance of facial hyperpigmentation by topical N-acetyl glucosamine. J Cosmet Dermatol. 2007;6:20¿26.
Matts PJ, Miyamoto K, Bissett DL, Cotton SD. The Use of Chromophore Mapping to Measure the Effects of a Topical N-Acetyl Glucosamine/Niacinamide Complex on Pigmentation in Human Skin. American Academy of Dermatology 64th Annual Conference, 2006.

[jimmy1]

Care to explain hoe you make the serum?

[mustardseed41]

Care to explain hoe you make the serum?

http://stores.homest...none/Detail.bok