LONGECITY

Im looking to start taking these supplements again and unsure on which brands are good to go. Looking to get D3, MK7, and fish oil. Questions are

1) What brand?
2) What doses for 175lb male, athletic
3) Anything else that I should take? I try to get most viatmins from my food. Granted I dont eat everything I should, nor do I eat out. I will seldomly eat fast food, when I do its because I need to eat and I cannot get to home cook meals.
4) Anything else worth noting?


edited:

5) Also looking to take coq10 too.
Edited by MrOneEyedBoh, 05 January 2012 - 06:36 AM.

I would also be taking maybe multi basics 3 from AOR, and 1g of vitamin c. Knowing VitC can help with absorption of other vitamins, can a the mk7, coq10 and D3 be taken with VitC?

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I've seen mentions of Jarrow's K2 M7 over at that huge Vitamin K thread but expensive. And apparantly, NOW's Vitamin K2 is of the M4 type... thats what some of them said. Kinda confusing. Carlson Labs have a good reputation for fish oil. Not sure about the D3 and the dosing.

My suggestion for fish oil (dose as recommended on the bottle):

Life Extension, Super Omega-3, EPA/DHA with Sesame Lignans & Olive Fruit Extract (Olive Fruit Extract ought to keep Fish Oil in good shape - keep it from becoming oxidized aka rancid, that is)

Only fish oil I've taken that's not given me unpleasant burps.

What I take for Vitamin D3 / K2 (unsure about the quality, but I like that both are in one pill, and it tastes great)
http://www.michaelsh...0-iu-of-d3.html
Supplement Facts Serving Size: One (1) Sublingual Tablet Amount Per Serving % Daily Value Vitamin D3
(Cholecalciferol from lanolin)

5000 IU

1250% Vitamin K2
(Menaquinone 7, MK-7) (from Soy Natto)

K2 in the M4 variety appears to be better studied and more supported by evidence.

Why are you looking for the M7 variety?

K2 in the M4 variety appears to be better studied and more supported by evidence.

Why are you looking for the M7 variety?

MK4 variety is supported by evidence only in super high doses.
MK7 variety has evidence in much smaller doses.
K1 variety also has evidence for bone healt but not for cardiovascular health like the K2 varieties.

This product has them all: (except for that super high dose MK4)

http://www.iherb.com...gels/14619?at=0
Edited by hivemind, 06 January 2012 - 02:08 PM.

For D3 and fish oil, I tend to go for nature made brand, it is "USP verified", #1 pharmacist recommended, and can be obtained cheaply at cvs, walgreens(every few months there's a 2 for 1 deal at cvs or walgreens), also can be obtained in bulk at Costco.

Thatmks. Any help on Ubiquinol and D3 dosages? I was thinking 50mg on Ubiq. twice daily and D3 at 1000iu once daily during winter and then EOD after?? I might want to leave out fish oil as I seen it CAN cause palpitations? I have heart issues on my moms side and my BP is around 130/90 at its highest at times. I havent checked it in a while, but I've never seen it get any higher than that. Im trying to stay off of BP meds at all costs. But it might get to the point where quality of life etc would be best on meds.

So Im looking into getting some heart health supps. Hence the K2, Ubiquinol and D3 for me since I dont get much sun.

This is what Im thinking about getting

K2 MK7- http://www.iherb.com...ftgels/256?at=0 ( Dose once daily )
Ubiquinol - http://www.iherb.com...tgels/8326?at=0 ( Try to dose twice a day ( 100mg total ) May drop it back to 1 tab, 2 tabs, 1 tab etc.
D3 - http://www.iherb.com...gels/13536?at=0 ( Dosed daily during the winter and then maybe EOD. I will get blood work at sometime to see how Im fairing )

POSSIBLY:
Multi: http://www.iherb.com...Caps/33054?at=0 ( I know this has D3 and K2 in it, but that shouldnt be an issue right? I would dose it at 1-2 caps daily or EOD )
Vit C: http://www.iherb.com...psules/475?at=0 ( 1000mg with K2,Ubiq,and D3. sHould help absorption, right? )
Edited by MrOneEyedBoh, 08 January 2012 - 01:04 AM.

The Best there is hands down. Proper forms good dosages. MK7 is not as effective as MK4 and MK4 is the type most common in diet. Most of the MK4's out there are to high in dosage and its unnatural but this combines both in the best forms and dosages. Take 4 drops in summer 6 in winter. http://www.amazon.co...26131287&sr=8-1

Although I expect it's mentioned in these forums, and I probably knew it at some point... anyone recall the avg. amount of MK-4 typically found in one's diet?

And didn't the Rotterdam study show benefit primarily due to menquinones 7-9, not 4?

Just curious if it's worth taking some extra MK-4, but not at Japanese mega-dose study levels. The Thorne product does look decent and has reasonable K2 dosing. I see they also have a K2 product separately too, at 1mg/drop.

As for brands listed, Jarrow stuff should be fine, as should be that ubiquinol. I'm not sure if you really need ubiquinol, but it all comes from the same place, Kaneka. If concerned about BP, perhaps consider trying some magnesium.
Edited by nameless, 13 January 2012 - 12:41 AM.

K2-MK4 is mostly present in green vegetables (only fresh?). IDK quanities.
MK7 is available in food?

I like Source Naturals D3. I personally take 2,000 i.u. per day always with food containing fat or oil, otherwise it will not absorb. I generally like Jarrow brand.
Edited by Luminosity, 17 January 2012 - 02:41 AM.

otherwise it will not absorb.

Yes it will

K2-MK4 is mostly present in green vegetables (only fresh?). IDK quanities.
MK7 is available in food?

Green vegetables have mostly K1 not K2.

Natto(fermented soybeans) has a lot of MK7.

otherwise it will not absorb.

Yes it will

No, it won't.

otherwise it will not absorb.

Yes it will

No, it won't.

By Golly, it's a classic he said-she said! Anyone have any evidence, or, lacking that, a rationale?

Thatmks. Any help on Ubiquinol and D3 dosages? I was thinking 50mg on Ubiq. twice daily and D3 at 1000iu once daily during winter and then EOD after?? I might want to leave out fish oil as I seen it CAN cause palpitations? I have heart issues on my moms side and my BP is around 130/90 at its highest at times. I havent checked it in a while, but I've never seen it get any higher than that. Im trying to stay off of BP meds at all costs. But it might get to the point where quality of life etc would be best on meds.

So Im looking into getting some heart health supps. Hence the K2, Ubiquinol and D3 for me since I dont get much sun.

Are you old enough to need ubiquinol? If so, 50mg once a day is probably plenty. If you're taking statins, then you definitely want it. D3 at 1000iu is a good dose if you aren't shooting for a high blood level. Personally, I'm not looking for a high level, since high D is associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer, which I have a strong family history of. At the moment I'm taking 6000iu/week.

Take the fish oil. The benefits outweigh the risks very strongly, providing you dose sanely. 1-3g/day is sane. Why would you want to stay off BP meds at all costs? I was on a low dose of Diovan for a while, and as far as I can tell there is no downside. K2 is a very good idea. I'd add some magnesium to the mix; maybe 200mg elemental per day of any of the carbon-based forms. Glycinate, malate, citrate... (not orotate; possible tox issues). If you have heart concerns, you should know your lipid profile.

K2 MK7- http://www.iherb.com...ftgels/256?at=0 ( Dose once daily )
Ubiquinol - http://www.iherb.com...tgels/8326?at=0 ( Try to dose twice a day ( 100mg total ) May drop it back to 1 tab, 2 tabs, 1 tab etc.
D3 - http://www.iherb.com...gels/13536?at=0 ( Dosed daily during the winter and then maybe EOD. I will get blood work at sometime to see how Im fairing )

POSSIBLY:
Multi: http://www.iherb.com...Caps/33054?at=0 ( I know this has D3 and K2 in it, but that shouldnt be an issue right? I would dose it at 1-2 caps daily or EOD )
Vit C: http://www.iherb.com...psules/475?at=0 ( 1000mg with K2,Ubiq,and D3. sHould help absorption, right? )

All fine choices. No need for multiple doses of ubiquinol; it has a very long half life. Once a day is plenty. The relatively small amount of d3 and Mk4 in Multi Basics won't cause a problem. Since they are in a dry form, their absorption won't be as good as the oil based forms anyway. The vitamin C is good, though I don't see it having any impact on the absorption of other things, if that's what you meant.

otherwise it will not absorb.

Yes it will

No, it won't.

A guy I know sells ADME-tested vitamin D pills.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADME

They DO absorb and they are in dry form.

If you do not believe me, then you can go and get your serum 25OHD level tested.
Edited by hivemind, 17 January 2012 - 04:47 AM.

I woudl suggest the "Nature Made" brand - you can find it on iherb

besides being sourced only from fish lower down the food chain (anchovies and sardine) and which come from deep ocean waters, their fish oil is molecularly distilled. I have seen a few other brands which tout "molecular distillation" as well, but as for posting the actual results of this process? I've only come across this practice for Nature Made's fish oil:


♦Nature Made Fish Oil supply comes from deep ocean water. Our fish oil is not supplied from farm raised fish. State-of-the-art molecular distillation is used to remove PCBs¹, dioxins and furans², which guarantees purity and potency. Mercury below 0.1 parts per million.
¹less than 0.09 parts/million (based on 7 indicator PCBs)
²less than 2 parts/trillion WHO TEOs


its also pretty inexpensive
Edited by ergopharaoh, 18 January 2012 - 06:25 PM.

Thatmks. Any help on Ubiquinol and D3 dosages? I was thinking 50mg on Ubiq. twice daily and D3 at 1000iu once daily during winter and then EOD after?? I might want to leave out fish oil as I seen it CAN cause palpitations? I have heart issues on my moms side and my BP is around 130/90 at its highest at times. I havent checked it in a while, but I've never seen it get any higher than that. Im trying to stay off of BP meds at all costs. But it might get to the point where quality of life etc would be best on meds.

So Im looking into getting some heart health supps. Hence the K2, Ubiquinol and D3 for me since I dont get much sun.

Are you old enough to need ubiquinol? If so, 50mg once a day is probably plenty. If you're taking statins, then you definitely want it. D3 at 1000iu is a good dose if you aren't shooting for a high blood level. Personally, I'm not looking for a high level, since high D is associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer, which I have a strong family history of. At the moment I'm taking 6000iu/week.

Take the fish oil. The benefits outweigh the risks very strongly, providing you dose sanely. 1-3g/day is sane. Why would you want to stay off BP meds at all costs? I was on a low dose of Diovan for a while, and as far as I can tell there is no downside. K2 is a very good idea. I'd add some magnesium to the mix; maybe 200mg elemental per day of any of the carbon-based forms. Glycinate, malate, citrate... (not orotate; possible tox issues). If you have heart concerns, you should know your lipid profile.

K2 MK7- http://www.iherb.com...ftgels/256?at=0 ( Dose once daily )
Ubiquinol - http://www.iherb.com...tgels/8326?at=0 ( Try to dose twice a day ( 100mg total ) May drop it back to 1 tab, 2 tabs, 1 tab etc.
D3 - http://www.iherb.com...gels/13536?at=0 ( Dosed daily during the winter and then maybe EOD. I will get blood work at sometime to see how Im fairing )

POSSIBLY:
Multi: http://www.iherb.com...Caps/33054?at=0 ( I know this has D3 and K2 in it, but that shouldnt be an issue right? I would dose it at 1-2 caps daily or EOD )
Vit C: http://www.iherb.com...psules/475?at=0 ( 1000mg with K2,Ubiq,and D3. sHould help absorption, right? )

All fine choices. No need for multiple doses of ubiquinol; it has a very long half life. Once a day is plenty. The relatively small amount of d3 and Mk4 in Multi Basics won't cause a problem. Since they are in a dry form, their absorption won't be as good as the oil based forms anyway. The vitamin C is good, though I don't see it having any impact on the absorption of other things, if that's what you meant.

Everything I've read generally say's that high D levels help prevent prostate cancer.

Everything I've read generally say's that high D levels help prevent prostate cancer.

That's generally true in vitro, from what I've seen, but the data in humans is a lot muddier. There are a bunch of papers that find no relationship. I tend to discount anything that's based on a Food Frequency Questionaire, but this Finnish paper really caught my eye because they had stored sera from all cases and controls, and used a consistent methodology to measure the 25-OH-D3 level. That makes me weight it higher than most papers.

Int J Cancer. 2004 Jan 1;108(1):104-8.
Both high and low levels of blood vitamin D are associated with a higher prostate cancer risk: a longitudinal, nested case-control study in the Nordic countries.
Tuohimaa P, Tenkanen L, Ahonen M, Lumme S, Jellum E, Hallmans G, Stattin P, Harvei S, Hakulinen T, Luostarinen T, Dillner J, Lehtinen M, Hakama M.

Medical School, University of Tampere, Tampere, Finland. Pentti.Tuohimaa@uta.fi

Vitamin D inhibits the development and growth of prostate cancer cells. Epidemiologic results on serum vitamin D levels and prostate cancer risk have, however, been inconsistent. We conducted a longitudinal nested case-control study on Nordic men (Norway, Finland and Sweden) using serum banks of 200,000 samples. We studied serum 25(OH)-vitamin D levels of 622 prostate cancer cases and 1,451 matched controls and found that both low (</=19 nmol/l) and high (>/=80 nmol/l) 25(OH)-vitamin D serum concentrations are associated with higher prostate cancer risk. The normal average serum concentration of 25(OH)-vitamin D (40-60 nmol/l) comprises the lowest risk of prostate cancer. The U-shaped risk of prostate cancer might be due to similar 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D(3) availability within the prostate: low vitamin D serum concentration apparently leads to a low tissue concentration and to weakened mitotic control of target cells, whereas a high vitamin D level might lead to vitamin D resistance through increased inactivation by enhanced expression of 24-hydroxylase. It is recommended that vitamin D deficiency be supplemented, but too high vitamin D serum level might also enhance cancer development.

PMID: 14618623

There was another paper that was a lot more recent, which I think came out of the US, and also found a problem with higher D levels. Foolishly, I've mislaid it. I'm beginning to wonder if I misinterpreted a recent paper that showed an OR of 1.22 for the highest concentration, though it wasn't significant. Did I miss the lack of significance? Damn, I discounted the Scandinavian study as an artifact of Vitamin A exposure or lattitude the first time I ran across it, but then I saw something confirmatory that really set me off... and now I can't find it. In looking for it, I ran across yet another case control study that says deficiency is bad, but other than that, no relationship.

Well, I think it's safe to say that deficiency is bad. That's been repeatedly confirmed. It doesn't look like high D is particularly great, the question is, is it bad? I'll retract that idea for now, and see if I can sort it out. If anyone can shed light on it, please do.

Brands I always start with are Perque, AOR & LEF.org but as for Vitamin D in particular I would encourage anyone here to have a look at this recent thread and chime in with your input. I supplement roughly 4,000 IU per day and this recent study gives me momentary pause.

Vitamin D supplements reduce blood levels of C-reactive protein, or CRP, an indicator of inflammation that is linked to cardiovascular disease. But supplements help only up to a point.
In a study of more than 15,000 adults ages 18 to 85, researchers at Johns Hopkins University found that after blood levels exceeded 21 nanograms per milliliter — the lower end of what is usually considered normal — any additional vitamin D led to an increase in CRP.

Edited by JChief, 19 January 2012 - 12:04 PM.

Could the Ubiquinol be dosed at 1 cap EOD? Its 100mg per cap and its the Jarrows QH-absorb form ( unsure if its hype or not )

Lastly, sorry if this seems weird, dumb, WTF etc. But I can take the vit D, KM-7 and Ubiquinol at the same tim, right? There wouldnt be an fighting for certain enzymes or the like?
Edited by MrOneEyedBoh, 21 February 2012 - 05:29 PM.

I'm not sure if ubiquinol's half-life is the same, but I think CoQ10's is around 36 hours. And peaks are between 5-10hrs or so. Ideally a smaller dose once or twice daily probably would be best.

But if you feel it's too strong, I see no major problem taking it EOD. When you run out, get 50mg gels, or go for CoQ10 instead. I expect regular CoQ10 would be fine for you. And I also don't see any problem taking them all at the same time. I usually do that myself.

Has your BP decreased at all since starting the ubiquinol?

Yeah I got the 100mg Jarrows QH absorb for CHEAPPPP on amazon. There was like triple stacked coupons. I have three bottles of it. So I'll have quite a few to go thru. I thought Ubiquinol was one of those vitamins/minerals you couldnt go wrong with and you couldnt get too much of.. well 100mg daily doesnt seem much

The Best there is hands down. Proper forms good dosages. MK7 is not as effective as MK4 and MK4 is the type most common in diet. Most of the MK4's out there are to high in dosage and its unnatural but this combines both in the best forms and dosages. Take 4 drops in summer 6 in winter. http://www.amazon.co...26131287&sr=8-1

Does anyone know how they fit 600 serving in one 30ml bottle.If this is true,this would be the absolute best value for money.
Does this product get absorbed better than pills??
ISnt there a possibility of spoilage with this product,since it lasts so long?
Does it have to be refridgerated like omega 3 oils?
Is it oil based?

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Green vegetables have mostly K1 not K2.

Natto(fermented soybeans) has a lot of MK7.

Are fermented foods generally high in vitamin K?