17 replies to this topic

[user1]

Since September I have been suffering from what I believe to be possible HPPD - the main symptoms of which I have listedin the the title. I have smoked weed many times, taken MDMA around 12-15 times, consumed mushrooms once and once took a random pill which I believed to be E. I am having tests done and have an MRI booked to check that it is not something more serious.

A month before the onset I had a particularly heavy MDMA binge one weekend, which gave me a tingling sensation all over my head which took just over a week to recover from. At first it was just visual noise/snow/static which, although I found annoying, was not too much of an issue because I had no other symptoms.

Stupidly, since September I have smoked weed and taken MDMA on a few occasions, and once took the aforementioned random pill. In November I decided that I did not want to take anymore illegal drugs in case I risked harming myself further.

However, it seems as though I stopped too late because in December I started developing other visual problems, including, but not limited to, starburts, halos, ghosting, after-images, blotches of colour in my vision, etc. Around the same time I started needing a lot more sleep than normal so that I would not feel tired, and I also began to experience headaches. I do not feel 'on the ball', and feel as though I have lost some of my intelligence. One night I kept on waking up and had an experience similar to MDMA where you start thinking about something and then completely lose track of what you were thinking. Before all these symptoms came on, I had three episodes of sleep paralysis with hallucinations. It is hard to tell whether I was asleep or awake at the time - they felt extremely real until I managed to wake up properly and move myself. This may or may not be of relevance.

From what I've read, the visual problems are likely to stick around for a while, and could quite possibly never go away. Whilst this is annoying, I'll get over it. I would just like to feel myself again so I can continue with my studies. The headaches and tiredness are currently the biggest problems for me, which get better and worse but do not ever dissapear.

I'm currently taking omega-3 fish oil supplements and am drinking Rebush tea. I have completely cut out caffeine and alcohol. I have also started to regularly exercise - running and weights.

I would like to add some supplements to my system to help repair whatever damage has been done. I have read a large number of threads on this forum but the problem is that there are so many different supplements available, it's quite overwhelming. Through research I have come across many including:

ALCAR
Ginkgo Biloba
Piracetam (with or without Choline?)
Zinc
Magnesium
Ashwagandha
Gotu Kola
Bacopa
EGCG
Alpha GPC
St Johns Wort
ALA
Aniracetam
5-htp
Sulbutiamine
Royal jelly
Lion’s mane
Tianeptine
Paxil
Idebenone
Stablon
Coconut oil
Phosphantidlyl-Serine
L-Tryptophan
Vinpocetine
L-Lysine
L-Arganine
Green tea (but I don't want to consume caffeine)

.... and many more.

Obviously it would not be wise to take every single one of these supplements. I would therefore like advice on which ones to take, potential side effects, and if there are any combinations which are not safe. I would also like some insight on what time of the day to take them, and the correct dosages. The supplements which seem to come up a lot from research are: ALCAR, Ginkgo Biloba, Piracetam, Magnesium, Ashwagandha, Gotu Kola, Bacopa, EGCG, Alpha GPC, St Johns Wort, 5-htp and Lion’s mane. Any suggests of other supplements not listed would also be helpful. I especially do not know much about antioxidants.

Thank-you to anyone who helps, it is very much appreciated. Should I cure myself, I will be sure to stick around on this forum and many others to pass on knowledge which may be of benefit to others.

[ZRTMWA]

My friend's brother has something like this. He smokes pot a lot and only took half a hit of lsd once. But he told me he gets these weird visual effects sometimes that get worse with anxiety or when he hasn't slept a lot. I really have no idea what supplements could be used to lessen the symptoms. He also said they are mildly annoying but fun to watch at times since they don't really interfere with his daily life. He also noticed that no matter how much sleep he got he still feels tired,even though he began exercising. Did you have visuals with any of the MDMA you took? Random question: did you experience anxiety during the mushroom trip or with the random pill? And how much sleep did you get the night after each of these?

If you're taking piracetam or aniracetam, Alpha GPC will work as a choline source. It's supposed to be the highest quality too. The supplements you have at the bottom look good but I'm not sure whether or not they would actually lessen the symptoms of HPPD.

[user1]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I experienced some visuals a couple of times from MDMA. The random pill seemed to have a similar effect to MDMA and I had no anxiety with it. I suppose there may have been anxiety with the mushroom trip - that was about a year and a half ago before I had touched MDMA. I didn't enjoy it that much, it was an interesting experience but a little too intense for my liking.

[ZRTMWA]

If you had any visuals it wasn't just MDMA. Most "ecstacy" pills are mixed with things like caffeine, 2c-b, dxm, meth etc because they are cheaper than MDMA. Pure MDMA has no visuals, except possibly lights looking brighter at higher doses. I'm wondering if there's a link between anxiety during the trip and persistent HPPD symptoms. Although that's definitely not all there is to it. Many people have had extremely bad trips without getting HPPD. Maybe genes...

I really don't have any strong suggestions other than trial and error. A lot of people have been speaking highly of the combo, of DHA (which you're already taking), Alpha GPC and Uridine, for anxiety and depression. My friend's brother told me he tried piracetam/ choline for its nootropic effects. All he said he noticed was that everything appeared to be sharper and colors were brighter, it didn't lessen or worsen his mild HPPD symptoms or his cognitive functions. Maybe one of the other racetams would work. But everyone's different. Like I said trial and error is best for you.

Edited by ZRTMWA, 15 January 2012 - 11:01 PM.

[user1]

If you had any visuals it wasn't just MDMA. Most "ecstacy" pills are mixed with things like caffeine, 2c-b, dxm, meth etc because they are cheaper than MDMA. Pure MDMA has no visuals, except possibly lights looking brighter at higher doses. I'm wondering if there's a link between anxiety during the trip and persistent HPPD symptoms. Although that's definitely not all there is to it. Many people have had extremely bad trips without getting HPPD. Maybe genes...

I really don't have any strong suggestions other than trial and error. A lot of people have been speaking highly of the combo, of DHA (which you're already taking), Alpha GPC and Uridine, for anxiety and depression. My friend's brother told me he tried piracetam/ choline for its nootropic effects. All he said he noticed was that everything appeared to be sharper and colors were brighter, it didn't lessen or worsen his mild HPPD symptoms or his cognitive functions. Maybe one of the other racetams would work. But everyone's different. Like I said trial and error is best for you.

I've read many accounts of people hallucinating from MDMA which they were sure was 100% pure, although it does seem quite rare. Mine were not full-on hallucinations. Irrespective, there is of course the very real possibility that I have consumed other substances. But none of that matters now anyway - what's done is done and now I'm just looking to learn from the experience recover as best I can.

Thanks for the advice.

Can anyone else help me out here?

I think supplements to reduce stress and anxiety may help with the headaches. I'm not sure if they are stress/anxiety related or not. Highly possible.

Edited by user1, 16 January 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[MrHappy]

I agree with ZRTWMA's advice on this..

Sounds like 'noise'/'crosstalk' in the visual cortex. You've damaged some of the nervous system, including the nerve sheaths. I think you've had some bad products, User1.

"We can rebuild it, we have the technology."

Morning:
St John's Wort / Hypericum
1500mg DHA
500mg EPA
300mg UMP (uridine-5'-monophosphate disodium)
500IU vitamin E
A good multi that includes full RDA of vitamin B group
50mg vinpocetine
Echinacea

This will increase cerebral bloodflow, cell growth rate, rebalance neurotransmitters / receptors, repair/replace neural lipid membranes and nerve sheaths as well as stimulating production of macrophages and T-cells - blood cleanup crew.

In addition to this, you'll need to drink water and get some light exercise - walking and jogging, perhaps, to aid bloodflow and the lymphatic system's blood cleanup process.

This should help a lot.

[Luminosity]

I hope you get help for substance abuse, like rehab and therapy.

[polaris123]

Are you experiencing any help from those meds ?

[Puppeteer]

Bumping this because I, and plenty of other lurkers I'm sure, have been experiencing similar issues and would be greatly appreciative of any advice regarding supplementation/nootropics that might be of benefit, or recommendations of medications to pursue, etc.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

Might want to try levetiracetam http://www.jns-journ...e/S0022-510X(05)81946-X

[Puppeteer]

Pretty sure anyone concerned about HPPD is aware of the value of Keppra/levetiracetam/other anti-convulsants in treatment, but surely there are nootropics/supplements that can accelerate healing or improve the cognitive deficits many of us endure. In many cases Keppra, while a wonder drug for many, does absolutely nothing, sadly, and none of the other solutions are as sustainable or target as broad a variety of symptoms, and that's where combination therapy of dietary supplementation, nootropics, CBT/meditation, exercise and psychiatric medication shines.

[Shane Minor]

This post was so long ago, but I don't care. I wanted to personally call you an idiot for suggesting taking a long list of supplements that include substances which are still being studied for their toxicity. Its almost as if you do not conduct any research on these products, and you're so eager to cognitively boost yourself that you're taking every single supplement out there that's ranted and raved about to improve learning, which is why studies are so important. Basically, evidence kind of overrules the claim, or supports it.....

[AmyHazy]

I have been keeping my mind clean for sometime. Let's put marijuana for example. It's natural and not man made, but it makes my HPPD worse. Anyone with HPPD has quit all drugs for sure for the sake of their eyes. I can't handle caffeine, it makes my hearing louder than it should be. I noticed that while drinking espresso at a coffee shop. Some cannabis may be laced by the original dealer in some areas, but it still activates the same cannabinoid receptors in our brain messing with our visual field. Yea stress and paying attention to it aggravates the visual distortions. Of course these are my opinion. .Though I'm not alone. I have been searching for answers and been paying attention to myself at times day in and out. 

 

I've had this for over 2 years and it has been the longest 2 years of my life. I will try some of those natural supplements, because I am in a lot of pain right now. Perhaps from damaging my nerves from the toxins. I already developed chronic migraines and chronic pain. I stretch everyday and see a counselor every 2 weeks. I'll be able to handle things by myself, just got some things to take care of that I need help with. 

Edited by AmyHazy, 09 October 2014 - 05:25 AM.

[EarthWaterAir]

go easy there.... you listed like loads of supplements, which are maybe a waste of time and money.


but, look up ayahuasca.

[AmyHazy]

On Erowid, they say there's perhaps a purge at the end. Which is the negative effect among it. Vomiting. Lol. We are looking for something that'll make our visuals go away, not make it worse. Yes money will buy us our nutrients.

 

Thanks for the information though, I never knew that existed. 

[BigPapaChakra]

I have been keeping my mind clean for sometime. Let's put marijuana for example. It's natural and not man made, but it makes my HPPD worse. Anyone with HPPD has quit all drugs for sure for the sake of their eyes. I can't handle caffeine, it makes my hearing louder than it should be. I noticed that while drinking espresso at a coffee shop. Some cannabis may be laced by the original dealer in some areas, but it still activates the same cannabinoid receptors in our brain messing with our visual field. Yea stress and paying attention to it aggravates the visual distortions. Of course these are my opinion. .Though I'm not alone. I have been searching for answers and been paying attention to myself at times day in and out. 

 

I've had this for over 2 years and it has been the longest 2 years of my life. I will try some of those natural supplements, because I am in a lot of pain right now. Perhaps from damaging my nerves from the toxins. I already developed chronic migraines and chronic pain. I stretch everyday and see a counselor every 2 weeks. I'll be able to handle things by myself, just got some things to take care of that I need help with. 

 

Are you a part of the HPPD forums? As to both you and the OP, I'd like to provide some context and some ideas. You can also read my posts on the HPPD forums, as there were many. 

 

In 2012 I came down with what I believe to be HPPD. I went through a period of 'functional' substance abuse as a Sophomore and Junior. I guess I thought I was more intelligent than I actually was at the time, especially in regards to knowledge of entheogens and the like, because I read erowid and random studies on drugs, lol. Anyhow, one night I was laced with a potent dissociative compound, and although I felt very terrible even the next day, I decided to take more dissociative compounds the following day (in moderately large amounts). Shortly thereafter I started experiencing mild "psychiatric" symptoms that I had never had before, such as anxiety, both somatic and mental, fearful thinking, etc. My previous neurological symptoms from head, neck, and back injuries through football and wrestling were exacerbated, too (palinopsia, eye floaters, visual snow, migraines, etc). Time went on, and things were kind of bad, but I was still able to attend my local college, hold a job, and so forth. I did have a lot of symptoms, though. I believe I was then infected with Lyme, which until recently I had thought was just a spontaneous, massive increase in HPPD symptoms. I then moved into a moldy, mycotoxin filled home, and almost became disabled, all before hitting 20 (which has largely detracted from my efforts to become a neurologist  ).

 

Now, as to my recommendations, from my own personal experience and what I've been researching - I would not look for any particular nootropic, medication, or supplement to get rid of one's symptoms, if they're severe of course. When problems are chronic and/or severe, the totality of one's problems must be analyzed, and a holistic approach is, in my opinion, a necessity. By holistic I don't mean, say, "natural", and utilizing herbs and some random veggie juices, and avoiding any and all synthetic chemical. I mean looking at your environment (environmental enrichment, sensory stimulation, environmental toxins, family/friends/social support, even if it's online), your activities ("meainingful activities" to cause positive, hopefully lasting neuronal changes), diet, supplements, pharmaceuticals, etc. A similar approach was recently studied for Alzheimer's or cognitive decline, where a holistic program was used, as opposed to a simple medication or supplement. I'd recommend the work of:

 

- Dietrich Klinghardt, MD, PhD (tons of different, really out of the box thinking kind of things) 

- Ray Peat, PhD and Benedicte M. Lerche, M.Sc., PhD (diet, hormones, and supplementation for optimal cellular respiration; use of CO2, light, etc)

- Amy Yasko, PhD (methylation, epigenetics, compounded nucleic acids, etc)

- Benjamin S. Frank, MD (dietary nucleic acids and nucleic acid therapy)

 

In terms of the environment, there are things like Snoezelen therapy/multi-sensory room therapy. You can also look into replacing your light bulbs with bright, clear 130 incandescent bulbs ran at 110-120 volts, to increase your exposure to seemingly healing/regenerative light, particularly in the red spectrum. The TULIP stack is amazing, too, especially the transcranial light (which can be used concurrently with the change in indoor lighting). Sleeping in complete darkness and/or using a comfortable eye mask at night can be surprisingly regenerative, as it will increase endogenous melatonin production, which causes a cascade of positive changes such as alterations in thyroid hormone levels, estrogen levels, mitochondrial functioning, and more. Blocking blue/green/white/violet light at night can help a lot, too. The nadir for light suppression of melatonin is 463nm, I believe, and there are studies actually indicating that red light panels used at night do NOT decrease melatonin despite increasing alertness (so, a good thing for college students, night shift workers, etc), and full body red light exposure, or even just intranasal red light, increases melatonin above baseline levels. So the incandescent bulbs, especially when run at 110-120 volts, is barely a problem, even at night, especially if sleeping in pitch black darkness. There is also "virtual darkness" therapy, being used for bipolar disorder and the like, which simply replicates the same effects as being in darkness after sun-down, as we would have without artificial lighting/being out in the wild/camping/etc. 

 

There are a lot of other things that I see as very therapeutic. I've tried a couple, and plan on trying others after I move out of this seemingly toxic apartment:

 

- Movement/neurology-based therapies: Interactive Metronome training (which can be done at home), Z-Health (can be done at home), Feldenkrais and the Anat Baniel Method, (neuro)sensory integration therapy

 

- Vision: (in addition to the above) Irlen Institute methods; Eyelights therapy; behavioral optometry; "Yoga for Your Eyes"

 

- Electromedicine (primarily the really potent stuff): PEMF (low intensity, high intensity, short bursts, all night, etc), rTMS, tDCS/HD tDCS, tACS, CES, Magnetico mattress 

 

- Medical Gases and/or Water: "masking"/re-breathing, CO2 baths or breathing, intermittent hypoxic training, nebulized bicarbonates; molecular hydrogen; electrokinetically modified water, such as RNS60; deep mineral waters, magnesium (bicarbonate) rich waters, lithia water

 

Some of the stacks that are generally well tolerated and seem efficacious are the Happy Stack and TULIP. There's a lot more to add, too, but I've went on for long enough 

[AmyHazy]

I will try some of your recommended things,  thanks Chakra. (: You really went deep into this study! I can't find a HPPD forum on here, only on facebook.

[BigPapaChakra]

Of course  this is the forum I was speaking of: http://hppdonline.com/ There is one on facebook, too? I wasn't aware of one, but if there is and you're apart of it, I'd appreciate a link/invite. I believe I came across some members of the hppd forums on facebook in various groups, but I wasn't certain and didn't want to ask and be completely wrong; it'd be nice to actually have a place to link up, as the hppd forums have really started to die down, go through admin changes, takes time to send/receive messages, etc.