9 replies to this topic

[CryoBurger]

We've got a living breathing example of a flatlined heart and completely inactive brain, frozen like a brick, yet spontaneously coming back to life.

Why isnt this the basis for suspension with humans? I can't imagine that our "hopeful" techniques would be considered more accurate and beneficial than completely copying what the Wood Frog does?

Why do we feel that our techniques are superior to a proven example that happens right in front of us?

"Special proteins in their blood, called nucleating proteins, cause the water in the blood to freeze first. This ice, in turn, sucks most of the water out of the frog's cells. At the same time the frog's liver starts making large amounts of glucose—a type of sugar—which packs into cells and props them up."


Obviously we lack the proteins, but the point is, why aren't we copying the methods and researching a way to duplicate this cell preservation?

[CryoBurger]

What a great forum.

[Mind]

I have wondered the same thing. There are many examples of natural organisms hibernating in a "frozen" state. There is one bug in Alaska that can even survive down to -100 F. I am going to take a stab at the question here: I think that for long term suspension we need to go colder because some chemical reactions or some type of degradation will slowly happen at temps a little below freezing. We need to go down to liquid N2 temps or at least close to stop all molecular action. After all, we are talking about decades of suspension.

Dr. Wowk could probably answer this question easily. Maybe he will chyme in.

I do think there could be some applications for these proteins (and synergistic glucose application) for short term survival. For people who suffer traumatic injury, stroke, or heart attack, maybe they could be put in hibernation to enhance their chances of survival. Some future minded and open minded doctors are already using "cold" surgery to improve results.

[Nemo]

Organisms that live in the Artic and Antarctic regions are resilient to freezing or can handle the freezing process -

Can a gene hunt through these organisms provide the gene therapy methods to insert the cryo genes into human genomes to allow freezing of therapeutic clones, organs and tissues for transplant?


http://en.wikipedia....ifreeze_protein

[AgeVivo]

not sure how woodfrogs do. perhaps a pist?

[Mind]

I can't remember the name of the bug that can survive down to -100F, but that is pretty dramatic. Is it desiccated (very little water) when it hibernates? What is the mix of proteins & glucose that allows it to survive down to this temperature? Does anyone have any data on this? Seems there is more info on the frogs. Could the proteins be isolated? Could the solution (or something similar) injected into other organisms and provide the same protective benefit? I suspect there would be some side effects, but has anyone tried?

[drus]

Mind, i think you're referring to the Water Bear/Tardigrades.

[Mind]

http://weirdanimalre...s-survive-space

I am not sure if the water bear is the creature I was thinking of that lies within the deep recesses of my memory, but it will do. It can survive in space which is nominally 3K (but apparently as high as 120C in the sunlight at a distance of 1 astronomical unit). If it can survive down to 3K then the secrets of successful cryopreservation lie within. What would it take to tease out the correct mixture of chemicals (proteins, sugars, antioxidants) that allow the water bear to survive down to such extreme temperatures?

Edited by Mind, 04 April 2012 - 09:05 PM.

[benbest]

We've got a living breathing example of a flatlined heart and completely inactive brain, frozen like a brick, yet spontaneously coming back to life.

Why isnt this the basis for suspension with humans? I can't imagine that our "hopeful" techniques would be considered more accurate and beneficial than completely copying what the Wood Frog does?

Why do we feel that our techniques are superior to a proven example that happens right in front of us?

"Special proteins in their blood, called nucleating proteins, cause the water in the blood to freeze first. This ice, in turn, sucks most of the water out of the frog's cells. At the same time the frog's liver starts making large amounts of glucose—a type of sugar—which packs into cells and props them up."


Obviously we lack the proteins, but the point is, why aren't we copying the methods and researching a way to duplicate this cell preservation?

Northern wood frogs do not freeze solid, although most of their
body is turned to ice. But if they get too cold they die. When
temperatures drop, their livers release massive amounts of
glucose that is used as a cryoprotectant. But glucose will not vitrify.

There is a page on my website that deals with the topic
of cryopreservation in nature and what we can learn from it:

http://www.benbest.c...ics/Crypto.html

[Nemo]

Hmmm, how very fascinating - Looks at cryoburger....good luck with the x-prize in cryonics - Regenerative Medicine will not succeed without it and everyone will die