28 replies to this topic

[Infernity]

Well Bruce, I appreciate your grapple with the idea of adding gender identification in the profile as my suggestion.
I was thinking about creating this poll to see if I am not the only one who thinks it is a good idea. If it seem to be, maybe it'll change the minds of those who has opted to hold off.
I think it would be better to have that possibility since I have found myself more than once embarrassed by being mistaken in some members gender [mellow] [wis]

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

Edited by infernity, 10 March 2005 - 07:17 PM.

[Infernity]

Heck, it suppose to be "No", can one of the leaders change it?

Thanks

Yours
~Infernity

[Bruce Klein]

Heh... I've edited it for ya

[Infernity]

Thank you Bruce
Did you vote "No"...?

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[Bruce Klein]

Heh... yep.

[outlawpoet]

mmph. Genderbait for the nerds. I bemoan the lack of personalization in forums such as these as much as the next denizen of the net, but there should at very least be a "Prefer not to say", or "None" option on any public gender profile switch. Girls are much rarer in this part of the internet, and their presence often attracts undue and/or unwanted attention. I would be very sad if we lost any members to unwanted interactions from other members. I would prefer to think that we would not act, as feral IRC channels often do, as filters for females willing and able to deal with a constant low level of ridiculous attitudes and intentions, but do we really have to press our luck?

[JMorgan]

Girls are much rarer in this part of the internet, and their presence often attracts undue and/or unwanted attention.

I'd like to think that the members of this forum are above this kind of behavior. I know if anyone, member or otherwise, acts in a way that makes someone uncomfortable, they will not be welcome here much longer.

I understand your intentions in "protecting" the girls, but I'd like to point out that it was a girl who brought this question up in the first place. Frankly, I didn't even think about gender until now. I assumed, for whatever reason, that most of the members here are male, with a few exceptions.

I support the idea, as long as it's a field that someone can choose not to enter. More detailed information in everyone's profiles wouldn't hurt.

[Infernity]

outlawpoet,
I understand your position, but imagine yourself you are talking with someone about some member and you are performing him as male/female, and you are so sure, till the one your talking with corrects you. Won't you feel embarrassed? That makes you think if you already referred to that member as the opposite to what you have thought before.
Moreover, everyone can choose if to fill it in or not. As no one is forced to fill in your date of birth, location etcetera- so about the gender.

Thanks Joel .

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

Edited by infernity, 25 April 2005 - 08:46 PM.

[randolfe]

Gender identification should be voluntary. However, I would like to see either "transgendered" or "other" included in the list of options.

There are not large numbers of transgendered people. They do not fit our neat and tidy definitions of "male" and "female". Many don't fit anyone's definition of heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual. In fact, they disown all three labels and simply like to consider themselves transgendered.

For that reason, some toilets in NYC's large gay community center are labeled
"All Genders". I think it would be appropriate for Imminst to recognize their existence by listing "transgendered" as an option.

[outlawpoet]

I'd like to think we're above that sort of thing too.

Excuse an old cypherpunk's kneejerk reaction. I suppose I'm still living where the ideal of an online community is a place where one can communicate with as little of the incidental details of social convention and culture getting in the way. I see the best communities, (perhaps too sparsely) as places where you relate solely in the realm of ideas and mind, with +The Mentor+'s famous dictum "We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias" dominating the day.

That's not everyone's ideal. Friendster, blogs, and numerous personals sites have proven that people want to export the details and context of their lives into the internet. They like that complication. But it's important to note, I think, that the more we personalize, the more likely it is that someone will react to the details of who you are, not what you're saying. That may be a benefit. I don't know.

My land of blank psuedonyms trading in scrubbed pure information sounds pretty sterile, I suppose. I've never really seen it in practice. But trading in all the remove and control and partial anonymity of the internet seems reckless. Not only for the gendered, but for anyone who has facts about them that make people react differently. For the longest time I was very young, too young to be taken seriously by anyone, in anything that mattered, at least. I spent a lot of time mastering how to sound adult, how to deflect questions of self. Just to get my ideas across. I don't think anyone should have to do that. Not that it was a great sacrifice on my part, but it seemed... dishonest. Even though it was their own prejudice I was protecting people from.

[JMorgan]

I do see the point though... yesterday I was playing chess online, a fairly cerebral activity, when the person I was playing with typed "asl". I didn't even realize what he was asking. Forgetting where I was, I asked "what's asl?"

"Age/Sex/Location"... I bet if I said I was a girl he would have tried to hit on me. I probably would have even beaten him cuz he'd be distracted and try to go easy on me.

[susmariosep]

Honor for women


I have this habit of honoring women, because women are my mothers, my grandmothers, my aunts, my sisters, and my wife is a woman; some of my best friends are women, and they seem to be better friends than guys.

Women are the mothers of mankind. They give birth to men, give them suckle, nurse them when ill, bring them up to be self-sufficient people, give them comfort when sad, encourage them, make a home and raise a family for men, attend to their last hours, and remember them in death.

I tend to show more respect to a woman poster.

Susma

[reason]

My take: only if it were optional, and we have more important technical fish to fry vis a vis the interface.

Reason
Founder, Longevity Meme
reason@longevitymeme.org
http://www.longevitymeme.org

[Lazarus Long]

I second Reason's opinion, optional only.

[Infernity]

Susma

some of my best friends are women, and they seem to be better friends than guys

Well let me disagree on this...
I find boys can be much more loyal as friends than girls.

Reason and Laz,
Well of course it will be optional, you cannot force someone to fill in any detail (well you can, heh but that wasn't my intent).

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[eternaltraveler]

In forums like this I mostly don't care what gender someone is. What matters are the ideas that are pouring out of them.

Still, I wouldn't have any problem with an optional field either.

[Infernity]

Well Elrond, I absolutely don't care with anyones gender, but don't you think it would be nice to know to who you are talking with so you know how to refer him/her?

Yours
~Infernity

[eternaltraveler]

just say "hey you!"

[eternaltraveler]

or type out their handle

[Infernity]

Well, and if you are typing on someone else, and you have to use the "he" or "she"?
Dude, it happend to me once! (only once I needed to use it in public, but more than once when I didn't recognized).
That's embarrassing!
Hehe I can name him/her as "it" lol [g:)] just kidding. Heh, I still think it'd be a good idea to add a place to fill in the gender in the profile.

Yours
~Infernity

[Infernity]

Well well well, Bruce, don't you think it has enough "Yes" votes against poor 4 "No"?
I suppose it is the time for the addition...

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[Bruce Klein]

/me scratches chin

leme c

[caliban]

Please consider carefully whether your suggestions are actually technically feasible and easy to implement.

If you have a new idea it is a good idea to present it as a poll, so people can share their views easily.

However, please be aware that the outcome of any poll is only an indicator of "public opinion".

Ultimately, the decision whether and how the Institute is presented is solely up to Full Members and the Institute leadership acting on their behalf.

[Infernity]

Well caliban, I believe we should act according to the best as for the notion of the public opinion, don't you think?
I think this community has enough wisdom to not go for stupid decisions...
I believe Bruce wouldn't try and change it if it was against his opinion. I suppose he changed his mind. (didn't you Bruce?)
Also,

technically feasible and easy to implement

, caliban dear, life's not an easy thing. It is full of challenges. Our main goal for case you didn't notice is not easy, quite hard and challenging...
Satisfaction is much greater after a successfully complement of a harder challenge.

Yours
~Infernity

[armrha]

I guess it couldn't hurt as an optional field. I just don't see any reason for it. I don't even like genders. It seems like as far as this group would go, it'd be better to include something like educational credentials or job experience, I can could the time I've spent browsing profiles on no hands... but if I could browse for microbiology majors to PM to get clarification on something, it would be a lot more useful then browsing for someone who was 'male' to try to answer some question.

Perhaps the general etiqiuette guideline should be "Don't be offended if someone calls you he/she if you didn't specify." Then you could feel free to have a field day with your gender pronouns and no one will mind.

[armrha]

Well caliban, I believe we should act according to the best as for the notion of the public opinion, don't you think?
I think this community has enough wisdom to not go for stupid decisions...
I believe Bruce wouldn't try and change it if it was against his opinion. I suppose he changed his mind. (didn't you Bruce?)

I doubt he changed his mind, but no, I'm certain he wouldn't go against public opinion. But then again, not even a majority of the imminst membership voted on this topic, so we still have most of our member's opinions unaccounted for...

Also,  , caliban dear, life's not an easy thing. It is full of challenges. Our main goal for case you didn't notice is not easy, quite hard and challenging...
Satisfaction is much greater after a successfully complement of a harder challenge.

I believe Caliban was just emphasizing the amount of effort that might be needed to add a gender option could possibly be greater then the potential value gained by having it, even if many people wanted it. For a rather extreme example, picture a universe where some given option would take Bruce longer to implement then it would take him to personally cure aging. Certainly at that point, no one would say he was obligated to violate the Imminst mission just to satisfy the opinion, as the gender option would be coming at too high of a price.

This is probably not the case here, but it's just something to think about. Just because something is challenging is no reason to do it. It has to be challenging and equally rewarding or you are wasting your time.

I hope you did not offend Caliban...

[Infernity]

armrha,
Well (hmmm first congratulations for the Lifetime membership!!), but that's not hurting is it? It's not like you have to fill it in... I won't be hurt if someone will think I am a male (heh as already happened), but I wouldn't like to hurt others who might be offended.
I still hold on that Bruce did change his mind. perhaps ask him...
Heehee

Yours truthfully
~Infernity

[armrha]

I'd suggest just learning to avoid using those pronouns... The internet is always gender-amiguous, and in an immortal society with medical nanotechnology, making assumptions about gender are going to cause many a faux pass. Avoiding them would be a good habit to get into! You can do it with only the cost of sounding a little bit more pedantic, hardly a problem for most of us here... ; )

[Infernity]

All those who voted 'No', I mean what's the problem to just not fill out that detail? Just don't kill me when I refer you wrong.......

Armrha, I think that precisely because that's an immortality institute- it won't cause any problem. People will not lose their heads and are not here for that... People who seek for affairs won't find it here.

Yours truthfully
~Infernity