I thought this might be fun to discuss: Serotonin: The Misery Hormone.
#1
Posted 08 February 2012 - 03:57 PM
#2
Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:52 PM
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#3
Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:42 PM
#4
Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:58 PM
#5
Posted 09 February 2012 - 09:51 AM
#6
Posted 09 February 2012 - 01:09 PM
LSD is good for the mind, MDMA is bad don't compare the two.
Based on some reason PTSD studies, at therapeutic doses even MDMA can be good for the mind.
#7
Posted 09 February 2012 - 09:55 PM
Since MDMA causes clipping on 5-ht recptors and axons you can argue that it causes OCD.
#8
Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:16 AM
I disagree, PTSD can be increased by MDMA.
Since MDMA causes clipping on 5-ht recptors and axons you can argue that it causes OCD.
Sorry but can you point to a source on MDMA increasing PTSD? This says otherwise: http://www.scienceda...00719082927.htm
#9
Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:25 AM
I disagree, PTSD can be increased by MDMA.
Since MDMA causes clipping on 5-ht recptors and axons you can argue that it causes OCD.
Sorry but can you point to a source on MDMA increasing PTSD? This says otherwise: http://www.scienceda...00719082927.htm
MDMA increases arousal by increasing release of endogenous norepinephrine and can worsen PTSD symptoms.
#10
Posted 10 February 2012 - 02:32 AM
#11
Posted 11 February 2012 - 06:39 PM
"The misrepresentations about LSD, as a powerful antiserotonin agent, allowed a set of cultural stereotypes about serotonin to be established. Misconceptions about serotonin and melatonin and tryptophan, which are metabolically interrelated, have persisted, and it seems that the drug industry has exploited these mistakes to promote the “new generation” of psychoactive drugs as activators of serotonin responses. If LSD makes people go berserk, as the government claimed, then a product to amplify the effects of serotonin should make people sane."
The LSD decreasing serotonin topic is coming from the article the OP linked to...
But this is interesting though. One withdrawal symptom I've seen listed for stablon (tianeptine sodium) is hair-loss. That would make sense because tianeptine reduces synaptic serotonin levels, and an abrupt discontinuing of it would probably result in a central rebound of serotonin. And if the implications of this article are correct, then the increase in serotonin would be causing the hair-loss...
This video from the article reiterates the authors hypothesis
Edited by manic_racetam, 11 February 2012 - 06:43 PM.
#12
Posted 11 February 2012 - 06:46 PM
#13
Posted 12 February 2012 - 07:30 AM
#14
Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:33 AM
I tried to make this argument and ultimately walked away confused. I am not sure what LSD does, but I was pretty darn sure it was pro-serotonergic. Ray Peat goes on quite a bit about how aweful serotonin is, so if you want to check into that it makes some arguments. My point is that at a bare minimum too little serotonin or too much in the wrong area causes issues, and that serotonin is involved a whole, whole bunch in the periphereal nervous system. And I am fairly terrified of SSRI, and I do not know why anyone would take them.
From memory LSD specifically works on the 5HT2a receptors. So it's a very specific kind of serotonin receptor. I was thinking about this though, and if it's true that serotonin is the "misery hormone" then why does MDMA have such a euphoric effect? I always wondered about that anyway though. Why does MDMA have such a euphoric effect when SSRI's seem to have an emotional blunting effect. I also noticed emotional blunting when taking (probably dangerously) high doses of 5HTP. MDMA must release serotonin in very specific brain areas or something? and it's just the central effects of too much serotonin that lead to "misery"?
A bit of gray area in my understanding here.
#15
Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:46 PM
I tried to make this argument and ultimately walked away confused. I am not sure what LSD does, but I was pretty darn sure it was pro-serotonergic. Ray Peat goes on quite a bit about how aweful serotonin is, so if you want to check into that it makes some arguments. My point is that at a bare minimum too little serotonin or too much in the wrong area causes issues, and that serotonin is involved a whole, whole bunch in the periphereal nervous system. And I am fairly terrified of SSRI, and I do not know why anyone would take them.
From memory LSD specifically works on the 5HT2a receptors. So it's a very specific kind of serotonin receptor. I was thinking about this though, and if it's true that serotonin is the "misery hormone" then why does MDMA have such a euphoric effect? I always wondered about that anyway though. Why does MDMA have such a euphoric effect when SSRI's seem to have an emotional blunting effect. I also noticed emotional blunting when taking (probably dangerously) high doses of 5HTP. MDMA must release serotonin in very specific brain areas or something? and it's just the central effects of too much serotonin that lead to "misery"?
A bit of gray area in my understanding here.
It may have to do with the unique combination of effects including the metabolites and oxytocin. Also MDMA is an SSRA which I'm guessing may have significantly different effect than an SSRI.
#16
Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:26 PM
http://neuroskeptic....ale-of-two.html
#17
Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:11 AM
#18
Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:33 AM
#19
Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:19 AM
http://www.maps.org/...lo/psilo_ib.pdf
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#20
Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:03 PM
Does this refer to recreational doses?Daily doses of LSD and psilocybin reduced numbers of 5HT2 receptors in rat brain. (Buckholtz et al. 1990)
http://www.maps.org/...lo/psilo_ib.pdf
In therapeutic doses there definatly is no tolerance occuring at all wich indicates that the sero activation takes place chronically and also that it isnt a misery hormone (lol who came up with that).
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