223 replies to this topic

[Joni A Solis]

Hi, I just joined this forum so I could ask a few questions about magnesium. I read the whole long thread but can not say that I understand all that I have read.

Questions:

When using Magnesium Sulfate transdermally:

• Does it have to be your whole body? What about just Epsom Salts foot baths? (I don't have indoor plumbing and this would be easier for me.)
• Does it have to be hot water? Have studies showed that it needs to be in hot water for better absolution? Or is the hot water just to get the salts to dissolve in the water better.
• How often do you have to do these baths? Daily and forever? Or if not daily how often to be effective?
• I have Magnesium Oil (from Health and Wisdom Inc.) - has this been proven to be less effective at raising the body's magnesium levels than the Epsom Salts baths? Or is it just that the Epsom Salts baths come out better on your pocketbook?

When taking Magnesium Orally:

• Are the sustained release forms any more effective at raising the magnesium levels in the body than the ones that are not.
• What is Dimagnesium Malete? Is that the same as malete? Were is the malete magnesium sold for the lowest price?
• Why are there so many different forms of magnesium!

I have epsom salts, manesium oil, and I just bought some powered Magnesium citrate for my pony. So for now I will probably be using all of these until I run out. Then I will need to know which to buy again to use.

P.S. A small laxative effect would be all right with me, specially if it would help save me money. I don't make much money. Thank you to anyone that helps me with my many questions.



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[Joni A Solis]

I just found a page on the Internet with this info about epsom salt...

"There's even decent evidence that Epsom salts can't even get past the skin barrier — Israeli soldiers can smear on magnesium rich cream without the slightest effect on their blood levels of magnesium. That's pretty damning."

I can not post links yet so I broke the link:

saveyourself. ca / articles / reality-checks / epsom-salts. php

[Luddist]

This thread is about the threonate form, here's the big bad magnesium thread: http://www.longecity...ntal-magnesium/ Also I think new users can post links despite what the message on the top of the forum says.

I forgot to update this thread with my experience with Mg threonate. Taking the Source Naturals Magtein, confounded with plenty other supplements but intentionally not taking any other form of magnesium, I didn't notice anything huge. I am pretty sure taking a couple of them with breakfast made me want to take an afternoon nap once or twice, and I switched to taking one with breakfast and two with dinner. I still have 10 or so left for later experimentation.

Based on the studies on rats I'm pretty sure that Mg L-threonate does get to the brain in higher quantity but we don't know if it's necessarily a good thing, and I won't be taking this chronically.

Edited by Luddist, 12 August 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[xsiv1]

I don't take it chronically either. In fact, although magnesium is responsible for over 300 metabolic processes and is often overlooked as a supplement, deficiencies are still pretty rampant so I alternate between Taurinate and Glycinate with the L-Threonate. Of the 3, I find no gastrointestinal issues, but that L-Threonate can be taken in the mornings moreso than Taurinate. Strange but I've replicated it dozens of times. Glycinate has a null effect on me in terms of relaxation or sedation. That is, I don't notice anything different from taking it. Leads me to believe that many forms are viable alternatives as long as side effects remain minimal in my own experience. When I was taking ZMA, which most often utilizes the aspartate form, I had no discernible effects either.

Edited by xsiv1, 12 August 2013 - 09:50 PM.

[prunk]

Anything new?

[Ukko]

Anything new?

Yeah, go with Magnesium Malate and Ester-C instead. The former delivers magnesium in a non-irritating form and BOOSTS energy production through being a Krebs cycle intermediate. Ester-C is cheaper than Magnesium Threonate, but also provides the threonate. Cheaper and better combo.

[nickdino]

any news on the human study yet?

[Ukko]

any news on the human study yet?

as a funny consequence, I saw your post today and thought that we'd likely never see the results, if they are not what the patentee intended. And then I stumbled on this one later today. http://on.ted.com/Goldacre2012

[nickdino]

yes, damn, forgot all about ben goldacre and his message. i'm full of bias.. I feel this video ought to be seen by all longecity users once a month, it's a critical message.

I went ahead and ordered a whole pack of supplements yesterday including a magtein supplement.

[ScienceGuy]

I just found a page on the Internet with this info about epsom salt...

"There's even decent evidence that Epsom salts can't even get past the skin barrier — Israeli soldiers can smear on magnesium rich cream without the slightest effect on their blood levels of magnesium. That's pretty damning."

With respect, that QUOTE is factually incorrect...

It's a MEDICALLY PROVEN FACT that TRANSDERMAL ADMINISTRATION of MG SULFATE is indeed very effective - read THIS for example:

Report on Absorption of magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) across the skin

Dr RH Waring, School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham. B15 2TT, U.K.
r.h.waring@bham.ac.uk

Protocol
Clinician in charge - Dr Sarah Nuttall, Department of Clinical Pharmacology, Medical School, University of Birmingham
Scientist in charge - Dr Rosemary Waring, School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham
Technician in charge - Mrs Liba Klovrza, School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham

Recruitment
Subjects were recruited from the staff of the School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham. In all, 19 subjects (10M, 9F) were recruited for the various aspects of the study. All were in good health, and not on any current medication. No subject smoked more than 5 cigarettes/day or drank more than 2 units of alcohol/day. The ages ranged from 24-64 years.

Analyses
Magnesium levels in blood and urine were measured by a flame photometric method using magnesium nitrate as a reference standard. Sulfate was measured by anion-specific high pressure liquid chromatography (hplc), calibrated with a turbidimetric method and with sodium sulfate standards.

Results
After initial pilot studies, all volunteers took baths (temperatures 50-55°C) and stayed in the bath for 12 minutes. They added varying amounts of magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) to the bath before entry and ensured that the salts were completely in solution.
Blood/Urine Samples

Blood samples were taken before the first bath, at 2h after the first bath and at 2h after the 7th consecutive bath. Baths were taken daily at the same time for 7 days for the experiment. Urine samples were collected before the first bath and then 2h after the first bath and at all subsequent baths . Urine samples were also taken 24h after the last bath. All urine samples were corrected for creatinine content.

Results:
MAGNESIUM
Magnesium levels in blood are very tightly controlled. Of 19 subjects, all except 3 showed a rise in magnesium concentrations in plasma, though this was small in some cases. The values before the first bath were, mean 104.68 ± 20.76 ppm/ml; after the first bath the mean was 114.08 ± 25.83 ppm/ml. Continuation of bathing for 7 days in all except 2 individuals gave a rise to a mean of 140.98 ± 17.00ppm/ml. Prolonged soaking in Epsom salts therefore increases blood magnesium concentrations. Measurement of magnesium levels in urine showed a rise from the control level, mean 94.81 ± 44.26 ppm/ml to 198.93 ± 97.52 ppm/ml after the first bath. Those individuals where the blood magnesium levels were not increased had correspondingly large increases in urinary magnesium showing that the magnesium ions had crossed the skin barrier and had been excreted via the kidney, presumably because the blood levels were already optimal. Generally, urinary magnesium levels 24h after the first bath fell from the initial values found after day 1 (mean 118. 43 ± 51.95) suggesting some retention of magnesium in tissues after bathing as blood levels were still high. Measurement of magnesium levels in urine 24h after the 7th bath gave values almost back to control levels.

SULFATE
Free inorganic sulfate levels in plasma rose in all subjects after bathing in Epsom salts (mean pre-bath, 3.28 nmol/mg protein ± 1.40, 2h after 1st bath, mean 5.59 nmol/mg protein ± 3.08). In some individuals, the level post-bath reached > 9 nmol/mg protein. The plasma levels after 7 days showed a mean of 3.57 nmol/mg protein ± 1.70, lower than the peak value, suggesting that sulfate stores in the body were being filled. Analysis of the urine samples again showed an increase in sulfate concentrations (pre-bath mean 623.74 ± 352.34 nmols/ml, 2h post bath 1093.30 ± 388.79 nmoles/ml, 24h after 1st bath 899.83 ± 483.16 nmols/ml. Sulfate excretion in urine in some individuals was only slightly higher after 7 days bathing than the pre-bath levels.

Other Factors
Gender Differences
Males had slightly higher levels of blood magnesium than females (109.0 ± 14.4 ppm/ml v. 87.7 ± 6.3 ppm/ml. Females had higher free plasma sulfate than males (3.26 ± 0.86 nmol/mg. v. 2.54 ± 0.53 nmol/ug) although these differences were not significant. The mean levels of both magnesium and sulfate were almost identical for males and females after bathing.

Optimum Epsom Salt Levels
There was a wide individual variation in this parameter. However, all individuals had significant rises in plasma magnesium and sulfate at a level of 1% Epsom salts .This equates to 1g MgS04/100ml water; 600g Epsom salts/60 litres, the standard size UK bath taken in this project (~15 US gallons). However, most volunteers had significantly raised Mg/S04 levels on baths with 400g MgS04 added. Above the 600g/bath level, volunteers complained that the water felt ‘soapy’.

Although this project did not specifically set out to answer the question of how frequently baths should be taken, the results are consistent with saturation of the skin (and possibly the gut ) transporters .These proteins are not well understood or described but, at least for sulfate, they are believed to be high affinity but low capacity.The values obtained suggest that most people would find maximal benefit by bathing 2 or 3 times/ week, using 500-600g Epsom salts each time.

Other factors
No volunteer complained of any adverse effects, even at MgSO4 levels of 2.5% . Possible effects on the kidneys were tested by measuring urinary protein content. This did not change significantly, whichever Epsom salt levels were used, over the 8-day period. Kidney damage is therefore not an issue. In other experiments using excised human skin, we found that sulfate does penetrate across the skin barrier. This is quite rapid so probably involves a sulfate transporter protein. We did not see any Mg penetration, but these experiments were conducted for a short time at only 37 degrees as opposed to the 50 degree bath temperature.To check this, 2 volunteers wore ‘patches’ where solid MgSO4 was applied directly to the skin and sealed with a waterproof plaster. Plasma/urine analysis confirmed that both Mg and sulfate levels had increased so this is potentially a valuable way of ensuring Epsom salts dosage if bathing is not available. Interestingly, both volunteers, who were > 60 years old, commented without prompting that ‘rheumatic’ pains had disappeared.

Conclusion
Bathing in Epsom salts is a safe and easy way to increase sulfate and magnesium levels in the body.

[ScienceGuy]

By the way ScienceGuy I am looking into this supplement (and have a bottle in the mail) to see if it will significantly help neurological symptoms related to tick-borne infections. When searching this forum for Lyme threads I remember you also had/have them, is that also why you find interest in this? If you don't want to derail this thread, see my thread. I'd be very happy to hear your experience and outcome!

Hi Luddist,

Firstly, THANK YOU for all your extremely valuable input into this thread... I have found your posts to be very interesting reading!

To answer your question, YES my primary interest in MAGNESIUM is as an NMDA RECEPTOR ANTAGONIST for application in treating the symptoms of TICK-BORNE PATHOGENIC INFECTIONS. Wherein, personally, I have found the most effective application to be administration of MAGNESIUM SULFATE by INTRAMUSCULAR INJECTION which I self-administer daily at bedtime... For me, this is much more therapeutic than MAGNESIUM THREONATE, but please kindly note that this is solely my own personal experience and I am by no means representative of the typical HEALTHY INDIVIDUAL

Personally, I would love for some proper research to be published confirming the bold marketing claims made about MGT, but regrettably it appears that we are still waiting... and it is somewhat worrying that everything seems to have gone quiet from the MGT camp regarding this...

[xsiv1]

Who has time for baths in epsom salts when you can effectively pop a supplement. lol. I wish I could sit in the bath and chill out but technically I'd need a nice widescreen TV in there along with my laptop for, well, multi-tasking. Sigh. Having a young family sure doesn't allow for much R&R.

[medicineman]

By the way ScienceGuy I am looking into this supplement (and have a bottle in the mail) to see if it will significantly help neurological symptoms related to tick-borne infections. When searching this forum for Lyme threads I remember you also had/have them, is that also why you find interest in this? If you don't want to derail this thread, see my thread. I'd be very happy to hear your experience and outcome!

Hi Luddist,

Firstly, THANK YOU for all your extremely valuable input into this thread... I have found your posts to be very interesting reading!

To answer your question, YES my primary interest in MAGNESIUM is as an NMDA RECEPTOR ANTAGONIST for application in treating the symptoms of TICK-BORNE PATHOGENIC INFECTIONS. Wherein, personally, I have found the most effective application to be administration of MAGNESIUM SULFATE by INTRAMUSCULAR INJECTION which I self-administer daily at bedtime... For me, this is much more therapeutic than MAGNESIUM THREONATE, but please kindly note that this is solely my own personal experience and I am by no means representative of the typical HEALTHY INDIVIDUAL

Personally, I would love for some proper research to be published confirming the bold marketing claims made about MGT, but regrettably it appears that we are still waiting... and it is somewhat worrying that everything seems to have gone quiet from the MGT camp regarding this...

I tried im MgSO4. How do you avoid the hard swelling?

[ScienceGuy]

I tried im MgSO4. How do you avoid the hard swelling?

So that I can answer that properly, please can you kindly answer the following questions:

1) What VOLUME (in ML) of MgSO4 SOLUTION are you INJECTING IM?

2) Is the CONCENTRATION of the SOLUTION = 50% MgSO4?

3) What INJECTION SITE(S) are you using (i.e. what muscles) for your IM INJECTION of MgSO4?

4) How QUICKLY / SLOWLY are you pushing down on the SYRINGE PLUNGER? I.e. What TIME PERIOD does it take to complete the INJECTION? 5 SECONDS? 1 MINUTE?

[medicineman]

I tried im MgSO4. How do you avoid the hard swelling?

So that I can answer that properly, please can you kindly answer the following questions:

1) What VOLUME (in ML) of MgSO4 SOLUTION are you INJECTING IM?

2) Is the CONCENTRATION of the SOLUTION = 50% MgSO4?

3) What INJECTION SITE(S) are you using (i.e. what muscles) for your IM INJECTION of MgSO4?

4) How QUICKLY / SLOWLY are you pushing down on the SYRINGE PLUNGER? I.e. What TIME PERIOD does it take to complete the INJECTION? 5 SECONDS? 1 MINUTE?

500mg/ml

I'm usually going for a gram. (I'm asthmatic, I tolerate large amounts with no issues)

I go pretty slow because it hurts like hell. Gluteal area.

No matter how slow, or how much I massage, a bump remains. I frequently inject meds, Sq, im, iv, and never had issues. But MgSo4, can't get it in im without issues.

Any tips would be appreciated

[medicineman]

forgot to add, I dilute to 5ml. tried both buttocks.. hurts like hell
makes a long lasting hard bump

Edited by medicineman, 04 February 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[ScienceGuy]

500mg/ml

I'm usually going for a gram. (I'm asthmatic, I tolerate large amounts with no issues)

I go pretty slow because it hurts like hell. Gluteal area.

No matter how slow, or how much I massage, a bump remains. I frequently inject meds, Sq, im, iv, and never had issues. But MgSo4, can't get it in im without issues.

Any tips would be appreciated

...forgot to add, I dilute to 5ml. tried both buttocks.. hurts like hell
makes a long lasting hard bump

The problem is being caused by the HIGH QUANTITY of MgSO4 that you are attempting to inject INTRAMUSCULARLY in one go.

For a variety of reasons, including TISSUE INFLAMMATION and SCAR TISSUE FORMATION it is strongly recommended that you do not attempt to administer such a high dose of MgSO4 via INTRAMUSCULAR INJECTION in one go into one INJECTION SITE.

My next question is: HOW OFTEN are you administering this 1 GRAM DOSE of MgSO4? Is this DAILY, EOD or WEEKLY?

You should be aware that if you are administering 1 GRAM MgSO4 via IM INJECTION DAILY you will most certainly eventually develop HYPERMAGNESEMIA, induce ELECTROLYTE IMBALANCE and stress your KIDNEYS... This will probably happen even if 1 GRAM is adminstered EOD depending on what is your total intake of MG from other sources (e.g. DIET)... Please be aware that you may be able to TOLERATE large amounts of MAGNESIUM when administered INFREQUENTLY but absolutely not FREQUENTLY and with PROLONGED REPEATED USAGE... just bear that in mind!

That said, my recommendation is that you REDUCE the QUANTITY of each injection to whatever is your personal UPPER TOLERABLE LIMIT... typically, in my experience this will be circa 250MG (0.25g) of ELEMENTAL MAGNESIUM PER INJECTION, i.e. a QUARTER of what you are attempting to inject... however, since the precise amount varies from person to person what I advise is that you carry out a DEDUCTIVE EXERCISE to ascertain what is YOUR OWN PERSONAL UPPER TOLERABLE LIMIT that you can inject in one go into one injection site that does NOT cause the problem to manifest... Start with 0.25g MG and depending on how you personally react to that ether DECREASE or INCREASE the DOSE via INCREMENTS until you establish what is the UPPER THRESHOLD at which the problem occurs and then you will have found your MAXIMUM INDIVIDUAL DOSE.

Then, simply SPLIT your TOTAL DESIRED DOSAGE across MULTIPLE INJECTIONS into MULTIPLE DIFFERENT INJECTION SITES (N.B. Always be sure to ROTATE your INJECTION SITES )... My recommendation is that you calculate what is your desired total intake of MAGNESIUM for the WEEK and then divide this by SEVEN to determine your TOTAL DAILY DOSAGE, and then divide this (if necessary) to determine how many INJECTIONS per day, with each injection remaining at below your MAXIMUM UPPER TOLERABLE LIMIT

Edited by ScienceGuy, 06 February 2014 - 09:39 AM.

[ScienceGuy]

Who has time for baths in epsom salts when you can effectively pop a supplement. lol. I wish I could sit in the bath and chill out but technically I'd need a nice widescreen TV in there along with my laptop for, well, multi-tasking. Sigh. Having a young family sure doesn't allow for much R&R.

The primary issue regarding PER ORAL ADMINISTRATION of MAGNESIUM is the issue of the consequential OSMOTIC LAXATIVE EFFECT; wherein, whilst the SEVERITY of the LAXATIVE EFFECT does vary depending on which particular MAGNESIUM SALT is ingested, unfortunately some individuals are highly sensitive to this and are unable to consume any quantity of MAGNESIUM PER ORALLY without experiencing at least some LAXATION... whereas administration of MAGNESIUM via TRANSDERMAL or INJECTION eliminates the LAXATIVE EFFECT entirely

[ScienceGuy]

I just found a page on the Internet with this info about epsom salt...

"There's even decent evidence that Epsom salts can't even get past the skin barrier — Israeli soldiers can smear on magnesium rich cream without the slightest effect on their blood levels of magnesium. That's pretty damning."

With respect, that QUOTE is factually incorrect...

It's a MEDICALLY PROVEN FACT that TRANSDERMAL ADMINISTRATION of MG SULFATE is indeed very effective - read THIS for example:

Report on Absorption of magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) across the skin

Dr RH Waring, School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham. B15 2TT, U.K.
r.h.waring@bham.ac.uk

Protocol
Clinician in charge - Dr Sarah Nuttall, Department of Clinical Pharmacology, Medical School, University of Birmingham
Scientist in charge - Dr Rosemary Waring, School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham
Technician in charge - Mrs Liba Klovrza, School of Biosciences, University of Birmingham

Results:
MAGNESIUM
...Prolonged soaking in Epsom salts therefore increases blood magnesium concentrations...

Optimum Epsom Salt Levels
There was a wide individual variation in this parameter. However, all individuals had significant rises in plasma magnesium and sulfate at a level of 1% Epsom salts...

Conclusion
Bathing in Epsom salts is a safe and easy way to increase sulfate and magnesium levels in the body.

So, your response to my posting SUBSTANTIATED SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE comprising a PUBLISHED MEDICAL STUDY which demonstrates that the statement that "Epsom salts can't even get past the skin barrier" is FACTUALLY INCORRECT is to DOWN-VOTE my post... SERIOUSLY???

[BioFreak]

How good is the bioavailability of magnesium oxide and carbonate, if they are exposed to acid first, such as in fizzy tablets?

[mikey]

 

 

 

 

This study demonstrates that PER ORAL supplementation with MAGNESIUM OXIDE results in NO DIFFERENCES COMPARED TO PLACEBO; and as such it is wholly USELESS

Apart from placebo effects, which if present, will probably be positive for person taking it. After all you cant tell somebody who felt better after taking it, that he felt the same...

Thanks for clarifying this issue!

 

Like I said to hippocampus: MAGNESIUM OXIDE is only useful as a PAPERWEIGHT or DOORSTOP

 

Look, scienceguy, I have experience with various supplements and drugs and I know when I really feel the effects. You can give me hundreds of studies that say that MgO is ineffective on average but this doesn't say anything about ME. Ok? You can only say what studies has shown and that's all. You cannot extrapolate to individual cases. You can't go in my head and measure how I feel. You can only guess and this is not scientific. Science is humble, science can only say that it doesn't know whether hippocampus has felt better on MgO or not. It can only say what people feel on average in comparison to placebo...

...And one more question: If tolerance doesn't happen with magnesium, why don't I feel the same effects as I did before? (and please don't answer again that it's because MgO is no better than placebo, because what I felt surely wasn't placebo).

 

You should bear in mind that when you took the MAGNESIUM OXIDE you would in fact have been party to the PLACEBO EFFECT

If you won't accept the results of a randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled, long-term clinical study that clearly demonstrates supplementing with MAGNESIUM OXIDE to provide no benefit whatsoever versus PLACEBO, then I think it is best if in this particular instance that we simply agree to disagree

I have clearly already irritated you, which was not my intention. So if I have caused you any offense on any level I wholeheartly apologise. I am honestly only trying to HELP

I should add that the VERY POOR PER ORAL ABSORPTION of MAGNESIUM OXIDE has been scientifically measured. Therefore, unless you possess superpowers which allow you to absorb more MAGNESIUM OXIDE when taken PER ORALLY than everyone else, then I am afraid you will have been absorbing just as little as everyone else. As such, with the utmost respect I do not need to 'go in your head and measure how you feel' to know that you won't have been absorbing the MAGNESIUM OXIDE

However, I do believe that MgO is the least effective form, so next time I'll buy magnesium it's going to be something better.

Very sensible

 

 

Not so fast.

Analysis of absorption versus cost favors mag oxide -

 

Please see: http://supernutritio...ective-Form.pdf

 

However, mag chloride may be the most absorptive form.

 

Please see: http://www.ancient-m...esium-chloride/

[adamh]

I don't agree mag threonate is less effective than sulfate or other forms. I wrote up my experiences in the other thread. What I found was a stimulation which is apparently very rare. I never got that from my regular mag oroate supp. Then again, I did not get a typical mag reaction from the threonate either.

 

It seems more like a drug than a source of magnesium. Look at the effects you are supposed to get, neurogenesis, hair growth, among others. Calling it a source of magnesium is like calling cocaine a source of carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen. 

[adamh]

As a follow up to my testing, I found the stimulating effects wore off. I quit for a few days, noticed no more stimulation and went with a cap every other day for a week, no noticeable effect, then a week back on one cap a day, no effect like before and then 2 caps a day for a week and no stimulation. Its hard to say if its doing anything, I might be a little more alert, its hard to say. I went back to amazon and the #$@# so and so's jacked up the price several dollars. I did find a 180 cap bottle for about $40 including shipping so I ordered that. The powder costs as much or more than the caps so they are just milking it as much as they can, supply vs demand. When factories start cranking it out we may see more reasonable prices.

 

I can think of no other reason why I felt stimulated the first 10 days or so. It could be placebo but the effect was the opposite of what I was expecting and it took a while to decide it was the mag. The only other new thing I started around that time was k2 but I doubt that was it. 

[Jason Young]

I joined this community because I was researching supplements and anything that would aide with benzo withdrawals (specifically clonazepam).  I hadn't heard of magnesium l-threonate until you suggested it in one of your "cocktails" ScienceGuy.  Anyway after reading a lot of your comments to include this entire thread, I have learned a lot from your post and appreciate you always having a source to backup what you're saying.  So here is my question.

 

I'm not disputing your evidence that magnesium l-threonate is no more effective than magnesium sulfate, but I have a hard time getting the person I'm trying to help to do the baths.  I already ordered the magnesium l-threonate and would like to know a comparison on the two.  Say I could get her to take the magnesium baths 3 days a week but not 7, and I wanted to use the magnesium l-threonate the other four days or maybe even in addition to the baths.  What would be comparable to the 2 cups of magnesium sulfate in a warm bath for 12-20 minutes, and the magnesium l-threonate supplements.  I won't mention the brand I ordered but I'll tell you the ingredients.

 

Serving size is 2 capsules

Elemental Magnesium 150 mg

(from 2084 mg magnesium l-threonate)

other ingredients: Modified cellulose (vegetarian capsule)

 

Keep in mind my end goal is to help figure out this information for someone going through benzo withdrawals.  This may be outside the scope of the thread, but it's indirectly related to it, and since I read the whole thing because I was trying to do my research on magnesium l-threonate, I would hope it would be okay for me to ask it here.  I don't really care about cost, I just care about effectiveness.

[penisbreath]

I can think of no other reason why I felt stimulated the first 10 days or so. It could be placebo but the effect was the opposite of what I was expecting and it took a while to decide it was the mag. The only other new thing I started around that time was k2 but I doubt that was it. 

 

It's not placebo. The same thing happened to me -- first few days I had a not-exactly-undesirable relief from my ADD, with more alertness, energy, perceptual enhancement etc. Subsequently the effect has faded into feeling calmer. 

[tolerant]

I have a magnesium oil and I thought spraying it was equivalent to having a magnesium bath. But now I realise that my magnesium oil as well as all other magnesium oils out there are magnesium chloride, not sulphate...

 

For what it's worth, I took the most expensive brand of magnesium l-threonate for a month with no effect. I find that the actual amount of magnesium in a serving was very low (144 mg). But it said on the bottle not to exceed this dosage. I wonder why. If you're low in magnesium, you would want to supplement at least the RDI, which is about three times that. By the way, my issue was also anxiety/clonazepam tolerance, and I was taking it in addition to other forms of oral magnesium.

[Mr. Perfect]

Well, reading through this thread was quite entertaining. Many thanks to all who have contributed to it thus far. I have a couple questions that perhaps Scienceguy can answer, if he is still around and posting here?  I have been looking into treading tendonitis problems with magnesium.  I have done some reading that suggests magnesium aids in helping muscles to relax.  So, I'm less interested in magnesium for the brain benefit, and more for muscular skeletal.  Is the sulfate form any more effective than the theronate form, for this treatment?  I'm not necessarily looking for the best bang for my buck, just want the best treatment/regimen.  My brother-in-law has been taking chelated magnesium or Magnesium glycinate to treat his tennis elbow.  He claims it has cured the condition.  I am wondering specifically for my tennis elbow, but also for my feet.

Edited by Mr. Perfect, 05 August 2014 - 09:30 PM.

[Multivitz]

MgO is a brain poison. I have used all types or Mg personally even orotated forms. Mg ascrorbate is very potent but Theonate forms seem to work well. If any vitamin pathways are weak then the effect of Mg will struggle to balance long term. Mg readly absorbs into the body but the negative ionic charge of it is a massive factor in healing.Everyone
is low in the mineral if one feels negative about anything then thats a small sign one may have some biological systems low in Mg and co factors. Distilled water has similar effects as Mg until demends from reguvination out strip Mg stores!

[Multivitz]

Well, reading through this thread was quite entertaining. Many thanks to all who have contributed to it thus far. I have a couple questions that perhaps Scienceguy can answer, if he is still around and posting here? I have been looking into treading tendonitis problems with magnesium. I have done some reading that suggests magnesium aids in helping muscles to relax. So, I'm less interested in magnesium for the brain benefit, and more for muscular skeletal. Is the sulfate form any more effective than the theronate form, for this treatment? I'm not necessarily looking for the best bang for my buck, just want the best treatment/regimen. My brother-in-law has been taking chelated magnesium or Magnesium glycinate to treat his tennis elbow. He claims it has cured the condition. I am wondering specifically for my tennis elbow, but also for my feet.

Phosphotidyl choline with zinc works wonders with Mg and D3. Make sure your body is getting enough vitamin C or fresh food. If they dont work you may have scar tissue biuld up or an amino deficiency of sorts? Hope this helps someone.

[YOLF]

A thought occurs to me as I'm working on my stack:

 

• Mg Taurate increases T (well taurine does) and T produces dopamine receptors in the brain. Taurine increases hCG produced in the testes which increases a whole spectrum of pheromones, neurosteroids, and all that stuff. Taurine is also great for liver function which probably increases some of the enzymes used for T production in the p450 cascade.
• Mg Threonate increases dopamine receptors in the brain (so does it also raise T by a similar mechanism to taurine?) Threonine is said to be anxiolytic, as is T.
• Mg Glycinate improves sleep and improved sleep improves T levels and melatonin production for sleep at night.
• NALT and Iodine increase Thyroid hormone which spins up the metabolism

 

So are taurate and glycinate better? Does glycinate provide fuel at the same time?

 

So Nalt, Mg conjugates, and Iodine as well as a few other minerals are really just playing around with neurosteroids/hormones and sex hormone production.

 

Maybe a balanced complex of this stuff would be the answer. Which is going to be best for long term health? Mg Glycinate is cheap, Taurine is also pretty inexpensive and will have it's beneficial effects in the liver and testes one way or the other.

Edited by YOLF, 17 April 2016 - 05:44 PM.