11 replies to this topic

[Propoxy]

I'm going vegetarian and need a good brand of flaxseed oil to replace my daily fish oil thanks.

[MrHappy]

Kudos. I use Nutrivital, but not sure if that is available outside Australia. $15/300x1000mg caps.

[arska]

My recommendation is to use brown flax seeds in lieu of extracted oils. The problem with these commercial oils are that you do not know if they are extracted from yellow flax seeds, in which case the lipid profile is different. Whole flax seeds can be ground and should immediately be used in cold preparations like in smoothies, juices or with yogurt. Ground flax seeds can be stored preferably airtight container in the freezer no more than one week. 100g of flax seeds have approximately 40% fat content. This might save you a big amount of money and you get the freshness benefit. You might also consider to add chia seeds (Salvia hispanica) to your diet. They are a little bit higher in plant based omega3 fatty acids (ALA) as flax seeds.

[hallucinogen]

flax oil is pure crap, it's full of phytic acid and other antinutrients found in unsoaked seeds and nuts,
i experimented many a time with the highest quality of flax oil that has been properly stored and the side-effects have always been beyond ridiculous !

[niner]

Humans aren't real good at converting the ALA in flax seed oil to the highly unsaturated fatty acids that we need. If you're a dedicated vegetarian, maybe that's what you have to do, but I think there's a health penalty. What about krill? Do they count as animals? At some point you have to consider the degree of nervous system complexity... (or maybe I'm missing the point and will be reincarnated as a planktonic crustacean...)

[MrHappy]

As a vege, I go by the rule of thumb, "nothing with eyeballs or a first name".

I don't have any issues with flaxseed oil. There are also algae based DHA supplements that are pretty efficient. I'd also point out that ALA has some important health benefits on its own.

http://www.playgroup...2A2A44310C7CBDA
http://www.aussiehea...il-Blend-250-ml

[DukeNukem]

Flax seed oil is a health fraud. Highly inflammatory, plus ALA on its own is useless except for the very small percentage converted to EPA and DHA. Take fish oil -- it actually works.

[child of Gaia]

flax oil is pure crap, it's full of phytic acid and other antinutrients found in unsoaked seeds and nuts,
i experimented many a time with the highest quality of flax oil that has been properly stored and the side-effects have always been beyond ridiculous !

Can you expound upon this? What are the side effects you speak of?

I have heard mixed things about flax oil, with quite a lot of negativity attatched to it. I am wondering what exactly it is about this oil that is so bad when compared to, say, hemp oil.

I too am a vegetarian and I want to supplement with omega 3s. I have a big tub of flaxseed oil capsules, which I did start taking a couple of months ago, but I got freaked out by some physical effects I noticed when I was taking it - specifically circulatory issues. But I have recently discovered that it was most likely the 5-HTP I was taking concomitantly - without a decarboxylase inhibitor - that caused the side effects. I haven't been taking the flax oil. I'm interested to hear what it is about flax that causes health problems.

Edited by child of Gaia, 25 March 2012 - 01:47 PM.

[nameless]

For vegetarians, one can consider algae DHA (plus EPA now too), as has been mentioned. Or perhaps something with stearidonic acid, like this... http://www.iherb.com...0-ml/23637?at=0

But it's very pricey. If you don't count krill as being an animal, it may be a better choice than either of the above. ALA does seem to have benefits too, as mentioned, and it does convert over to EPA, just not super efficiently. For those who don't eat fish or other sources of omega 3s, I expect it'll convert better.

Duke, I assume as for increased inflammation you are referring to the omega 6s present in flax? Perhaps chia has less, or perhaps some brands have less Omega 6s in them?

I did notice one side effect when I tried flax oil some time ago. It tasted horrible. Horrible, horrible... furniture polish horrible... Ground seeds probably would be better, but are somewhat of a pain to grind. I also would think the phytic acid content would be a positive for most people, unless they are mineral deficient (and have a terrible diet) to begin with.

Edited by nameless, 25 March 2012 - 11:58 PM.

[Dorian Grey]

A couple of opinions from Ray Peat (PhD)
http://raypeat.com/a...ratedfats.shtml
http://raypeat.com/a...ated-oils.shtml

Or perhaps these are more interesting:
http://www.second-op...and_cancer.html
http://www.second-op.../immunity2.html

[hallucinogen]

flax oil is pure crap, it's full of phytic acid and other antinutrients found in unsoaked seeds and nuts,
i experimented many a time with the highest quality of flax oil that has been properly stored and the side-effects have always been beyond ridiculous !

Main flax oil's downfall is that it's PACKED with phytic acid in its free form, it's not even bound in the grain anymore,
that acid literally melts the skin on your face from inside, causing all kinds of skin problems,
phytic acid also chelates many of the most important and vital minerals from your digestive tract until you are extremely deficient in them,
it's affinity for chelating calcium is the greatest,

All unprepared Seeds and Nuts are extremely high in anti-nutrients, and based on the amounts of phytic acid present, i am sure that many others are abound ..

also I would NEVER recommend ANY plant oil in ANY amount,
first of all it's completely unnecessary, your body is great at converting all it needs from omega 6's in your diet already,
and plant oils make you lazy and tired all day long...

unrefined hemp oil is the WORST, it literally makes your stomach hurt for a day, and you see stars in the eyes only after a teaspoon or 2... and i don't think it's the brand, the brand is fine .

A vegan diet rich in Omega-6 and poor in Omega-3 is perfectly all right .

Olive oil Omega-9 in cis-configuration becomes trans if heated at 70oC/150oF
Sunflower Omega-6 in cis-configuration becomes trans if heated at 55oC/131oF
Linseed, hemp or chia Omega-3 in cis-configuration becomes trans if heated at 45oC/113oF

Lipids are composed of saturated fatty acids, monounsaturated fatty acids (Omega-9) and polyunsaturated
fatty acids (Omega-6 and Omega-3). All polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) are naturally curved in space in
a cis-configuration, but are straightened into a trans-configuration under the influence of either partial
hydrogenation to solidify fat as margarine, by cooking or by extraction of oil through a chemical process. In
cis-configuration, hydrogen ions linked to carbon atoms are positioned on the same side of the double bond,
while in trans-configuration, hydrogen ions move in space to the opposite side of the double bond.

Our 60 billion cell membranes are composed of PUFA, which isolate enzymes, proteins, carbohydrates,
lipids content, and the nucleus genetic code from their surroundings. A cell membrane is more or less fluid
and permeable. It releases eicosapentanoic acid (EPA) to detect modifications in external fluid to inform
itself of needed adjustments. The more a cell membrane is made of unsaturated fat and the more fluid it is,
the better it is, especially for brain neurons. This is why we find in the brain a lot of docosahexanoic acid
(DHA) as an end-product of EPA biosynthesis.

The cells' microsomes produce enzymes that manage hormonal eicosanoid synthesis as prostaglandins (PG)
from Omega-6 or 3. Gamma linolenic acid (GLA), coming from biosynthesis of Omega-6, produces PG-1.
EPA coming from biosynthesis of Omega-3 produces PG-3. Both PG-1 and PG-3 have anti-inflammatory
and pro-immune properties. They are considered "beneficial" because they fluidify blood, reduce extra
cellular water, regulate the flow of hormones and neuromediators, as well as cardiac function. They also
maintain cell membranes, protect the liver, and maintain vision and skin hydration.

Biosynthesis of Omega-6 and Omega-3

Biosynthesis of Omega-6 also leads to arachidonic acid (AA), which is a precursor of PG-2, considered "bad" because it is pro-inflammatory, induces vasoconstriction and platelets aggregation and weakens the immune system.

AA is also a precursor of docosopentanoic acid (DPA), which has a similar effect as DHA in cell membranes. According to Claudio Galli, MD and Franca Marangoni, PHD in "Recent Advances in the biology of n-6 fatty acids" (Nutrition Vol.13:978-985, 1997): " DPA is normally present in very low concentrations in most tissues…but it accumulates in plasma and tissues during Omega-3 deficiency…The reasons why DHA rather than DPA is esterified in cells are not dependent on the relative rates of conversion…since these have shown to be substantially the same." Also from the department of Physiology of university of Kuopio in Finland in "Fatty Acid Composition of Erythrocyte, Platelet and Serum Lipids in strict Vegans" (Lipids, Vol.30, no4, 1995), researchers found that: "the increase of DPA (from biosynthesis of Omega-6) in vegans is probably a compensatory mechanism in response to the low levels of DHA (from the biosynthesis of Omega-3) in the diet".

Furthermore, according to Timothy J. Key in the Proceedings of the Nutrition society (2006), 65, 35-41 "Health effects of vegetarian and vegan diets": " Plant foods can provide Omega-3 but are devoid of the long-chain fatty acids EPA and DHA…Recently, it has been shown that plasma levels of EPA and DHA in vegans are not related to the duration of adherence to the diet over a period of =20 years, suggesting that the endogenous production of these fatty acids in vegetarians and vegans may result in low but stable plasma concentration ….conversion of Omega-3 to EPA and DHA can occur in human subjects but that the rate of conversion is low in females and very low in males…but there is no direct evidence that plasma levels of EPA and DHA in vegetarians can be substantially increased by following a diet low in linoleic acid (Omega- 6) and high in alpha linolenic acid (Omega-3)". We need more research to judge the level or the lack of EPA, DHA and DPA in our cell membranes. The fact that our plasma blood level is low but stable in EPA, DHA and DPA doesn't mean our cell membranes are not full of it and that is where it should be!

All this suggests that as vegans we do not have to eat (and it is even better to abstain from) flaxseed, or hempseed or chia to get our Omega-3 because what is really needed is EPA and DHA and these are not the best way to get them. We produce our own EPA and DHA from Omega-6 either in our liver, as babies do, or directly in the smooth endoplasmic reticulum of our cells. In the previous table, I suggested some possible pathways (in the center column) to do so. But more research will be necessary to really understand how our vegan metabolism functions. For sure, something in our metabolism must have been adjusted because eating raw sunflower oil as a major source of fat, for more than 5 years, seems to be beneficial as we experience it in our Montreal "Vegan Gourmet Club".

Also in the article "A novel omega3 fatty acid desaturase involved in the biosynthesis of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA)" (Biochem J.2004 Mar 1; 378(Pt2):665-71), we are told that Saccharomyces cerevisiae yeast, involved in the making of beer, wine and bread, synthesizes a desaturase enzyme that converts specifically AA (coming from Omega-6) into EPA (coming from Omega-3). My guess is that in the next ten years, science will discover other enzymatic mechanisms to transform DPA into DHA or DPA into EPA. The balance between Omega-6 and Omega-3 is far from being completely understood. We already know that biosynthesis chooses slower or faster pathways depending on the external environment of the cell condition, but most of all, on the proportion of Omega-6/Omega-3 in one's diet. Mother's milk has a proportion of Omega-6/Omega-3=7.2, so our diet should more or less reflect this model.

If the proportion is 2/1 or less, biosynthesis of Omega-6 and Omega-3 takes on slow pathways with alpha linolenic acid (ALA), using a delta-6-desaturase enzyme for its conversion to EPA and PG3 on one side and to DHA on another side. But by retroaction of a loop, this DHA is reconverted to EPA and more PG3.

Also by using up a delta-6-desaturase enzyme, ALA might disrupt the biosynthesis of PG1 from gamma linolenic acid (GLA), PG2 from AA and hence DPA production from Omega-6. Then the equilibrium between "good" PG1 and PG3 versus "bad" PG2 is compromised.

If the proportion is 5/1 or more, a superior limit is not important if we consider that DPA from Omega-6 has a similar effect as DHA in the case of limited access to Omega-3 in our diet. Biosynthesis of Omega-6 and Omega-3 takes faster pathways in the production of DPA and DHA for cell membranes by a currently unknown endogenous mechanism.

Edited by hallucinogen, 31 March 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[child of Gaia]

Main flax oil's downfall is that it's PACKED with phytic acid in its free form, it's not even bound in the grain anymore,
that acid literally melts the skin on your face from inside, causing all kinds of skin problems,
also I would NEVER recommend ANY plant oil in ANY amount,
first of all it's completely unnecessary, your body is great at converting all it needs from omega 6's in your diet already,
and plant oils make you lazy and tired all day long...

unrefined hemp oil is the WORST, it literally makes your stomach hurt for a day, and you see stars in the eyes only after a teaspoon or 2... and i don't think it's the brand, the brand is fine .

A vegan diet rich in Omega-6 and poor in Omega-3 is perfectly all right .

Care to provide any links to back up some of these extraordinary claims?

Firstly, phytic acid is not digestible by humans, so I don't how you can draw the conclusion that it "melts the skin off your face from the inside". It is also a mineral chelator, which can be benficial in certain circumstances.Only people deficient in minerals from other food sources are at risk from the chelating effects of phytic acid. You seem to suggest that raw nuts and seeds are bad because they are full of 'anti-nutrients'. Animals and humans have been eating raw foods for millenia without problems.

Secondly, I don't know where you are getting the idea that ANY amount of ANY plant oil makes you "lazy and tired all day long". ??? We all eat plant oils every day. Going by your logic, all those mediterraneans who use lots of olive oil in their food would be suffering from chronic fatigue, which is absurd.

For vegetarians, one can consider algae DHA (plus EPA now too), as has been mentioned. Or perhaps something with stearidonic acid, like this... http://www.iherb.com...0-ml/23637?at=0

Yes, I've been looking at the various algae-derived DHA supplements. They are all quite expensive, but it is something I probably need so I am going to try and find the cheapest one without skimping on quality.

Edited by child of Gaia, 07 April 2012 - 12:36 AM.