93 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

McLeod neuroacanthocytosis has been ruled out?

[Turnbuckle]

There is also Kennedy disease--

Kennedy disease is a gradually progressive neuromuscular disorder chiefly characterized by wasting of the proximal muscles (those closer to the trunk) and bulbar muscles (those of the face and throat).[1][2] The condition mainly affects males, with onset between the ages of 30 and 60.[1][2] Early signs and symptoms may include tremor, muscle cramps and muscle twitching, followed by progressive muscle weakness and wasting which may manifest in a variety of ways.[1][2] Affected individuals may also have gynecomastia, testicular atrophy (reduction in size or function), and reduced fertility.[2] It is caused by a mutation in the androgen receptor (AR) gene, in which a DNA segment known as a CAG triplet repeat is abnormally expanded.[3] It is inherited in an X-linked recessive manner. Treatment may include physiotherapy and rehabilitation, medications for tremor and muscle cramps, and hormone therapy or surgical treatment of gynecomastia.[1]

http://rarediseases....?diseaseID=6818

[ihatesnow]

http://www.rightdiag.../pale_stool.htm http://ibdcrohns.abo...a/palestool.htm http://www.ehow.com/...stool-mean.html

Edited by ihatesnow, 04 November 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[Psychonaut]

This is a long shot and likely totally unrelated but I just posted about possible contamination of NOW d-ribose here,

http://www.longecity...-contamination/

What brand did you use fighter?

[fighter]

This is a long shot and likely totally unrelated but I just posted about possible contamination of NOW d-ribose here,

http://www.longecity...-contamination/

What brand did you use fighter?

I used Doctor's Brand Ribose powder. So assuming it may have been affected, how can it be treated? Activated Charcoal?

[niner]

I used Doctor's Brand Ribose powder. So assuming it may have been affected, how can it be treated? Activated Charcoal?

If this problem was caused by a contaminant, whatever it was would be long gone by now, in all probability. The thing that I keep coming back to is that there was another case with the same onset and symptoms, starting from taking ribose in a low carb state. My money is still on some kind of weird metabolic dysregulation that was caused by that combination. The fact that both cases came up in roughly the same time frame does raise the possibility that you both had ribose from the same batch, and that there was some sort of contaminant. I sure wish we could get in touch with sentrysnipe, who posted about his friend who had this ribose-related condition. Sentrysnipe seems to have gone missing. If there was a case of widespread contamination with something very toxic, you'd think someone would have noticed something by now. It's too bad there isn't a national registry of people with unsolved medical problems.

[fighter]

I used Doctor's Brand Ribose powder. So assuming it may have been affected, how can it be treated? Activated Charcoal?

If this problem was caused by a contaminant, whatever it was would be long gone by now, in all probability. The thing that I keep coming back to is that there was another case with the same onset and symptoms, starting from taking ribose in a low carb state. My money is still on some kind of weird metabolic dysregulation that was caused by that combination. The fact that both cases came up in roughly the same time frame does raise the possibility that you both had ribose from the same batch, and that there was some sort of contaminant. I sure wish we could get in touch with sentrysnipe, who posted about his friend who had this ribose-related condition. Sentrysnipe seems to have gone missing. If there was a case of widespread contamination with something very toxic, you'd think someone would have noticed something by now. It's too bad there isn't a national registry of people with unsolved medical problems.

Hi, niner. I recently tested positive to an Igenex Lyme test, both IgM IgG, with IgM being CDC positive as well. I don't know how accurate that test is nonetheless I don't think this is what's causing my rapid wasting. I still started taking Doxycycline 400mg qd (Rx for acne since Kaiser doesn't recognize Lyme if you tested negative on ELISA which I did), just in case. It has not subsided and I've almost accepted that I am going to die soon. I had a recent abdominal MRI, nothing still.

The urine is very very very heavily foamy still. Just had another 24hr proteinuria test, normal. What I noticed though is that the urine creatinine was high very close to the upper limit. Does creatinuria manifest as having foamy urine? My doctors have become quite insulting and I don't feel asking too many trivial questions like this anymore, I just don't know where to go. Do you still have that contact in UCSF?

[niner]

The urine is very very very heavily foamy still. Just had another 24hr proteinuria test, normal. What I noticed though is that the urine creatinine was high very close to the upper limit. Does creatinuria manifest as having foamy urine? My doctors have become quite insulting and I don't feel asking too many trivial questions like this anymore, I just don't know where to go. Do you still have that contact in UCSF?

Proteinuria is the classic cause of foamy urine. If you're eating a lot of protein and your body isn't metabolizing all of it, it would be excreted. However, the tests for proteinuria keep coming up negative, so it doesn't look like protein in the urine is what's going on. If I pee standing up, I get a lot of foam. I have routine urinalysis often enough (just had one a month ago) and nothing is showing up there. When I pee sitting down, there is only a little bit of foam, so that's a variable. I don't know about creatinuria and what effect it would have on foaming. The doctors being insulting is actually a good sign, annoying as it may be. It means they don't think anything is wrong with you. That doesn't mean that there isn't something wrong, or that you don't feel like hell, but it does suggest that you aren't on the verge of death. Doctors are pretty good at figuring out when a person is about to die, even if they are clueless about how to get you healthy again. The UCSF guy wasn't someone I knew, I just emailed him cold. He did get back to me on it, but didn't have any major insights.

One thing you could do that might be helpful would be to keep an accurate food diary for a week or two. You need to measure everything, even weighing your food with a gram scale. There is some free software called Cron-O-Meter that you can download and enter the food data into. It will tell you exactly what macro and micronutrients you're getting, so you can see where you're high and low. This condition could have a dietary component, and the Cron-O-Meter report might help to pinpoint it, if you're really out of bounds on some nutrients.

[tham]

The pentose phosphate pathway, which produces ribose, has been linked
to both Alzheimer's and muscular dystrophy.

However, I would think that this is reversible or would not happen if you
take just a few doses of ribose, and is a risk only if you go on a diet which
utilized this PPP or take ribose long term.


http://www.longecity...post__p__526276


The activity of the pentose phosphate pathway is increased in
response to oxidative stress in Alzheimer's disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10392540



Increased neuronal glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase and sulfhydryl
levels indicate reductive compensation to oxidative stress in Alzheimer disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/10510282/



Ribosuria in muscular dystrophy.

http://jnnp.bmj.com/...g&pmid=13085201



Pentose phosphate pathway in neuromuscular diseases--evaluation of muscular
glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase activity and RNA content

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/1703936/



STUDIES ON THE "PENTOSE PHOSPHATE PATHWAY"
IN DENERVATED SKELETAL MUSCLE.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/14126350/

[fighter]

The pentose phosphate pathway, which produces ribose, has been linked
to both Alzheimer's and muscular dystrophy.

Tham, how can i reverse it? Please help me out. I took ribose for a significant amount of time 2 years ago and went on a Paleo diet which I must have done wrong since I developed gallstones. Is Paleo one of those diets linked to what you are stating? I really do appreciate your input

[1kgcoffee]

have you had your kidney function tested?

[renfr]

I used Doctor's Brand Ribose powder. So assuming it may have been affected, how can it be treated? Activated Charcoal?

If this problem was caused by a contaminant, whatever it was would be long gone by now, in all probability. The thing that I keep coming back to is that there was another case with the same onset and symptoms, starting from taking ribose in a low carb state. My money is still on some kind of weird metabolic dysregulation that was caused by that combination. The fact that both cases came up in roughly the same time frame does raise the possibility that you both had ribose from the same batch, and that there was some sort of contaminant. I sure wish we could get in touch with sentrysnipe, who posted about his friend who had this ribose-related condition. Sentrysnipe seems to have gone missing. If there was a case of widespread contamination with something very toxic, you'd think someone would have noticed something by now. It's too bad there isn't a national registry of people with unsolved medical problems.

Hi, niner. I recently tested positive to an Igenex Lyme test, both IgM IgG, with IgM being CDC positive as well. I don't know how accurate that test is nonetheless I don't think this is what's causing my rapid wasting. I still started taking Doxycycline 400mg qd (Rx for acne since Kaiser doesn't recognize Lyme if you tested negative on ELISA which I did), just in case. It has not subsided and I've almost accepted that I am going to die soon. I had a recent abdominal MRI, nothing still.

The urine is very very very heavily foamy still. Just had another 24hr proteinuria test, normal. What I noticed though is that the urine creatinine was high very close to the upper limit. Does creatinuria manifest as having foamy urine? My doctors have become quite insulting and I don't feel asking too many trivial questions like this anymore, I just don't know where to go. Do you still have that contact in UCSF?

Foamy urine might be indeed due to lyme disease, I know a friend who had lyme disease and symptoms lasted during several months including wrecked urine output (very dark urine), total brain fog, extreme laziness and muscle weakness.
It appeared he had a very weak immune system.
Maybe you should look into that, I don't know if D ribose has an immunosuppressive activity.
Low blood sugar can indeed reduce significantly immune system, and probably you caught a virus or a bacteria while supplementing D ribose.
It would be really scary to know that D ribose cause permanent effects, it's probably out of your system now.

[tham]

Goodness, I am no dietician or biochemist. (I've never studied biochemistry.)

Shouldn't you be consulting an orthomolecular physician or a nutrition-oriented one,
with a condition as serious as yours ?

Three of the big names are Richard Kunin, Michael Rosenbaum and John McDougall.


Is there any biochemist in the forum ? How about Niner, any input ?


Anyway, this is what I can suggest, from what I have found so far.

Stop ribose.

Actually, ribose is the end product of the PPP, rather than the cause.

Glucose > G6PDH > PPP > Ribose


http://chemistry.gra...oneogenesis.htm



Isn't the Paleo Diet, the one by Loren Cordain, a very high fat,
high protein, low carbohydrate diet ? If so , stop it.

Reverse it. Go on a high carbohydrate, low protein, low fat diet.
I believe this should change you from the PPP to a more normal glycolytic pathway.


Glycolysis is an oxidation pathway, converting glucose to pyruvate.

http://highered.mcgr...ysis_works.html



" .... administration of a high-protein diet for 8 days significantly increased
both the pentose phosphate pathway flux (92.6 per cent) and the kidney
weigth (35 per cent) .... "


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/2340628/




A high fat diet also appears to induce the PPP.

" Adiponectin also reversed induction of the pentose phosphate pathway by HFD. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/23238294/


Thus :

High protein or fat > G6PDH increase > PPP activation > Ribose



As I said, I am no biochemist or nutritionist, so I may well be wrong.
The others here would be able to advise you better.



Time course of enzyme changes after a switch from a high-fat to a low-fat diet.

" The late phase occurred 10 days after the dietary switch and was
characterized by an increase in the activities of glucokinase (glycolytic
pathway) and glycogen phosphorylase (associated with glycogenolysis)
and by a decrease in glutamate dehydrogenase, PEPCK and BCAADH
activities. These measurements indicate that at least 20 days are required
before metabolic changes associated with a switch in diet are complete. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9440229



John McDougall on the Paleo Diet.

" The Paleo Diet Is Uncivilized (And Unhealthy and Untrue) "

http://www.drmcdouga.../jun/paleo2.htm





Since GHB helped Alzheimer's in the earlier link, it might be
worth trying in your case too.

Similarly for glutathione or its precursor, NAC. The aim is to
try to prevent the system from switching over from the oxidative
glycolysis pathway to the non-oxidative part of the PPP.


Again, a biochemist or orthomolecular doctor would be best to advise you on that.

Edited by tham, 01 January 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[tham]

My guess is, you are either in ketosis, or have rhabdomyolysis.

Foamy urine is a sign of ketosis, which itself can be caused by
high fat, low carbohydrate diets.

http://www.livestron...er-than-muscle/


The ketogenic and modified Atkins diets are high fat, low carbohydrate diets.

Ketosis can also cause high pulse rates.



If you have :

Tea colored urine
High CPK


Then, together with your big pot belly, you very likely have rhabodmyolysis.

http://www.thesweaty...rhabdomyolysis/


And didn't you say you took guggul too ?

Rhabdomyolysis caused by Commiphora mukul, a natural lipid-lowering agent.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15187214

http://www.saluter.i...ita_menn[1].pdf



But then again, surely your doctors, together with a full blood picture,
could not have missed that right from the beginning ?

Edited by tham, 02 January 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[tham]

You also mentoned gynecomastia.


What diseases are both hypertrophy of breast and rhabdomyolysis symptoms of ?

Kennedy disease.

http://www.evi.com/q...sis_symptoms_of


Apparently can start at any age, but more during adolescence, and only in males,
since it is an X-linked recessive inherited. Females are carriers.




Serum CK level - increased to at least 5 times normal.

"This is the most specific test for diagnosis of rhabdomyolysis."

http://bestpractice....osis/tests.html

Edited by tham, 03 January 2013 - 11:01 AM.

[Graham Jason Duncombe]

In his first post he said:

Get itchy feet when I take Vit. D3

I took this as allergic response.

I know that low Vitamin D is connected to allergies in many studies, but as always it's difficult to make definite statements. A majority of people benefit from Vitamin D. However, in 80% of cases where I took Vitamin D for shorter or longer periods, I always ended up getting itchy skin and eyes within hours after ingestion. I tried different Vitamin D supplements, including liquid form, to exclude an allergic response to fillers/other ingredients. I know that this sounds weird but here are some studies which can partly explain a connection:

I stand corrected, Cap'n. I had forgotten about the itchy feet, and was only thinking about the metabolic dysfunction. You're right that there is some murky association between vitamin D exposure and development of asthma/allergies, but it's pretty tough to figure out what's going on there. It looks like most of the data points to vitamin D deficiency being a bad actor with respect to allergy, but then there are occasional papers that point the other way. This recent review is pretty good. It looks like high levels of D supplementation might be a particular problem with infants. I'm not sure what kind of nut would give 2000IU/d to an infant, but apparently it's been done and doesn't work out so well.

This recent study has also linked raised Vitamin D via sun exposure with allergies and asthma:
http://www.annallerg...e/S1081-1206(12

Edit: fixed broken link.

Edited by niner, 10 February 2013 - 02:10 AM.

[fighter]

Hello to all who have contribute / read / still reading this thread. Just a quick update

• I did the IGeneX test for Lyme disease, I tested positive on IgM and IgG both Igenex standards; and positive just on IgG CDC standards.
  
• The infectious disease doctor from Kaiser told me that IGeneX has powerful people working for them that's why they still have a license and are able to practice, adding that the test is shoddy and inaccurate. He said had I been IgM positive CDC standard, that alone he could have considered Lyme.
  
• My symptoms have not stopped: Burning pain in back of mouth, eyes, palms, lower back, feet coupled with muscle/tissue wasting. My nasal cartilage has thinned, ear canals loosened, facial muscles wasted, etc. Foamy urine appearance. Now my vision is getting worse which started around 2 weeks ago.
  
• I'm reading about how TNF blockers like Humira may cause cancer, I took a form of glucosamine called "N-Acetyl-Glucosamine" or NAG in 2010, right around the time I first observed the foamy urine appearance, and another bottle in 2011. It turns out that it has immunosuppressive properties and my block TNF-a as well. (link) Could this have something to do with my symptoms anyone?
  
• I decided to have my gall bladder taken out 5 weeks ago. They didn't tell me I had gall stones, from a Feb2012 imaging, until late Nov last yr. I now read that gallstones are also linked to Lyme.
  
• So I'm still undiagnosed, as my symptoms rapidly worsen and my body wastes away. ID Doctor says I don't have Lyme. One specialist and internist after another can't find anything, Could Vitamin D, and NAG have triggered or contributed to my now symptoms? Where do I go now? I've exhausted all my savings on these medical bills that don't seem to identify what's wrong with me. Thank you for all your input.

glucosamine pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16431966

Edited by fighter, 02 March 2013 - 11:01 PM.

[niner]

I'm reading about how TNF blockers like Humira may cause cancer, I took a form of glucosamine called "N-Acetyl-Glucosamine" or NAG in 2010, right around the time I first observed the foamy urine appearance, and another bottle in 2011. It turns out that it has immunosuppressive properties and my block TNF-a as well. (link) Could this have something to do with my symptoms anyone?

I decided to have my gall bladder taken out 5 weeks ago. They didn't tell me I had gall stones, from a Feb2012 imaging, until late Nov last yr. I now read that gallstones are also linked to Lyme.

So I'm still undiagnosed, as my symptoms rapidly worsen and my body wastes away. ID Doctor says I don't have Lyme. One specialist and internist after another can't find anything, Could Vitamin D, and NAG have triggered or contributed to my now symptoms? Where do I go now? I've exhausted all my savings on these medical bills that don't seem to identify what's wrong with me. Thank you for all your input.

Glucosamine isn't much of an immunosuppressive, if it could even be called that. It's taken by millions of people. I don't think that the in vitro experiment is very relevant here. Anyway, that was glucosamine sulfate, which is different that NAG. I hope there's nothing wrong with NAG, since I'm taking it. I doubt that either vitamin D or NAG are the problem here; I thought the problems all started with a low carb and ribose-induced hypoglycemic episode.

I'm really surprised about the gall bladder removal. What was the reason for doing it? I presume that your doctors felt it was medically necessary... Did they think that it would help your current state?

[fighter]

I'm really surprised about the gall bladder removal. What was the reason for doing it? I presume that your doctors felt it was medically necessary... Did they think that it would help your current state?

Thank you, niner for the unwavering generosity of your time and insight. One thing I omitted in the previous post, I immediately developed pink eye in both instances I took NAG. I thought people only get pink eye once and you're done with it. It started as a burning eye sensation just in one eye in both times I took it. The first time, I had pink eye twice while on the first bottle. Then it happened again as soon as I started the second bottle in 2011 after months of taking a break from the first.

With regard to the cholecystectomy, I called into the surgery dept in January and asked for an immediate schedule to have my gallbladder taken out as the pain started lingering for days. There were small stones found accdg to the surgeon post op, and they've been there for about 2 years. I just didn't want anything wrong to happen.

I guess the paranoia in me kicked in. I read how a burst gallbladder may actually have no symptoms at all, if not less painful than an intact organ. I just had to take action, didn't want to risk taking Phosphatidylcholine for months to wait for the stones to dissolve, amidst my primary doctor's irresponsible monitoring and a passive attitude that I had to actually ask about that Feb2012 ultrasound if they found anything, only to hear from her in Nov say, "Oh, they found gallstones in your feb imaging".

[renfr]

Have you tried NAC (N Acetyl Cysteine) which stimulates glutathione? Also you should try Sodium ascorbate (and ONLY this form or the liposomal form, never use ascorbic acid) in high doses (5-10g).
These supplements are OTC and they're quite cheap, you should give them a try, I would say they're the most basic supplements to repair your cells, if you do have Lyme you should try this.
I don't think the supplements you took caused anything or it's something extremely rare that could be attributed to epigenetics, who knows...

[sunjet]

So, how are you now?

[fighter]

Quick update.

I just researched on "Urea Cycle Disorder" and it resonated to me since it says people who went on fasting, lost a lot of weight, or underwent gastric bypass surgery may trigger this rare condition. My symptoms began after a week of fasting and trying a Paleo diet which is a high protein diet - something that also triggers Urea Cycle Disorder.

Could I have this? Any biochemists in the site that can assist me? My doctor is not available until Monday.

As for my symptoms, it has deteriorated. Palms and feet have now scalloped, Chest X-ray last monday normal, EMG last Wed still "normal". Still a slight protein leakage in urine, severe burning pain at the back of the mouth now every single day, as well as the burning pain and muscle atrophy everywhere else.

Edited by fighter, 18 May 2013 - 11:23 PM.

[niner]

I just researched on "Urea Cycle Disorder" and it resonated to me since it says people who went on fasting, lost a lot of weight, or underwent gastric bypass surgery may trigger this rare condition. My symptoms began after a week of fasting and trying a Paleo diet which is a high protein diet - something that also triggers Urea Cycle Disorder.

Could I have this? Any biochemists in the site that can assist me? My doctor is not available until Monday.

As for my symptoms, it has deteriorated. Palms and feet have now scalloped, Chest X-ray last monday normal, EMG last Wed still "normal". Still a slight protein leakage in urine, severe burning pain at the back of the mouth now every single day, as well as the burning pain and muscle atrophy everywhere else.

I dunno, fighter. Here are the symptoms for adult-onset UCD:

Recently, the number of adults being diagnosed with urea cycle disorders has dramatically increased. These individuals have survived undiagnosed to adulthood due to mild enzyme deficiencies. Many adults are being identified due to improved diagnostics and increased awareness among medical professionals. Symptoms include episodes of disorientation, confusion, slurred speech, unusual and extreme combativeness or agitation, stroke-like symptoms, lethargy and delirium. Many may be seen by neurologists or psychiatrists because of psychiatric symptoms, including schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

This doesn't sound like what you've reported. Also, if you had high ammonia, I would think that it would have showed up on conventional diagnostic bloodwork. Does eating a lot of protein make you feel sick?

[nameless]

Just glanced at this... but regarding Lyme, did you have any followup tests? Igenex typically is looked at by a Lyme doctor (a good one, I mean) as possible evidence, not that in of itself it's proof positive. There is very little 'proof positive' with diagnosing Lyme. I would disregard what most doctors think about diagnosing Lyme, as many rely on the very inaccurate Elisa test alone.

Get tick co-infections tested (and any standard lab will do for these). If you test positive for a bunch of those, even if just exposure + positive Igenex + weird symptoms, I'd think there is a good chance some tick borne illness could be the culprit. You'd need to see a good Lyme or infectious diseases doctor for a proper diagnosis.

[Consistency]

Might be any of these 3:

http://en.wikipedia....bbit_starvation
http://en.wikipedia....ten_sensitivity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanine

My bet is rabbit starvation. Too much protein from low fat meat without enough calories, either from carbs or fat.

Try freshly squeezed raw carrot juice as a healing tool.

Paleo diet does not mean eat a boat load of meat. Especially low fat/high protein meat like chicken breasts. More steamed vegetables and lower your meat intake. Choose higher fat meat like organ meats and monitor your protein intake. Or you can add extra virgin olive oil to chicken breasts to increase calories.

Sweet potatoes and fruit are excellent calorie sources.

Edited by Consistency, 19 May 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[fighter]

I'm so sorry, I agree it may not be UCD but probably something similar to it.

What happened yesterday was I tried taking Carnitine (Tartrate) again (when I took Carnitine around the time my symptoms started, it gave me a throbbing burning pain in the lower back right where the kidneys are. Sometimes only on the right side, then left, or even both concurrently).

Today I had that same pain again. I also took 5mg biotin yesterday

I just learned that Carnitine and Biotin both are linked to "gluconeogenesis" which is linked to ketosis which are both then linked to protein catabolism in theory, as I read even Ketogenic dieters account some muscle wasting which happens to anyone doing a low carb diet.

*Note* I may have not properly done the Paleo diet with the correct macro ratios, and I also had about a week of fasting while taking D-Ribose and the other supplements above back in 2010 which is very dangerous in retrospect. So this is not to demonize the low carb movement but I believe the ZONE diet ratio of 40/30/30 is a much safer diet with enough research behind it. I say safer considering the conditions UCD, gallstones etc

What do you all think about this burning pain with foamy urine caused by Carnitine intake? All papers I've seen have praised Carnitine and even good for the kidneys. I thought maybe I don't eat enough fat? Is that it? But I do consume a lot of olive oil and omega-3

EDIT: I forgot to say I found out about R-ALA / ALA that it inhibits gluconeogenesis. I will be taking it for a while. I can't believe I have not known this about ALA. What do you think of this?

Edited by fighter, 19 May 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[Consistency]

http://examine.com/b...for-your-heart/

http://chriskresser....ut-not-the-meat

[fighter]

Hi, Consistency, how about the ALA bit? Any useful links on it too? Thanks

[Consistency]

alpha lipoic acid does inhibit gluconeogenesis as you stated and this is bad when eating a lot of protein. Your body produces its own alpha lipoic acid and the production of more alpha lipoic acid is stimulated by Vitamin A. Plants are the richest source of Vitamin A.

Stop wasting money on supplements and eat more steamed vegetables with a little bit of raw extra virgin olive oil. Raw fresh squeezed carrot juice does wonders to the body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E1FXNGswoU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLAmpWmuUk0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVS2uoL74vQ

What paleolithic humans actually ate: http://www.direct-ms...Review EJCN.pdf

Edited by Consistency, 19 May 2013 - 07:27 PM.

[Consistency]

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Proteinuria