11 replies to this topic

[NMDAstronaut]

So, I am an experienced supplement user. I've had many great experiences. Some supplements work great for me for days some for weeks and some have had me going great for months (certain racetams some of which I've had amazing experiences and eventually with mixed with cdp, fish oil). Usually I've hit some sort of wall.

Recently I've purchased an oxytocin nasal spray. I'm not going to name any brand names because I don't want anyone suspecting this is a bs commercial post which it is not. Anyhow, the spray purports to deliver 5 IU per spray. It says to take one spray per nostril once to twice per day. The brand also sells a sublingual drop formulation. To my knowledge there is much less literature if any proving that sublingual application of this hormone can have any affect or cross BBB.

I have used this product for two days now. The first day I took drops in the AM and about twice the recommended amount of nasal spray throughout the day. I was impressed but it seemed to take this amount for me to feel anything. Again, I have used A LOT of noots, herbs and various supps as well as meds and know when something is producing an effect.

Today, second day, I had to take about 3X the recommended dose but the affect on anxiety reduction and feeling more social was amazing once it kicked in. I've seen some reports that you may have to take more at first and less over time but these reports seem kind of suspect and possibly commercially motivated.

I'd like to know if anyone has any experience with nasal oxytocin and whether tolerance was developed. I have read one or two accounts of people that don't think they felt anything but I am sure this is doing something, its just taking more than the recommended dosages. Also anyone know of any sources of oxytocin powder - I'd be interested in mixing my own spray.

[Raza]

Do you usually feel less sociable than the average person seems?

Oxytocin has some very nice effects, but with the price of nasal sprays (that I've found) and the noted low rate of it crossing the BBB when administered this way these always seemed like an ineffective choice. I'm actually interested in your brand names/source.

5HT-1a stimulation causes oxytocin release, which unless you're already optimising serotonin or are declining to for other reasons seems like a more accessible source.
As someone with a naturally barely active oxytocinergic system (autism spectrum), I found that oxytocin releases 'activate' social enjoyment and awareness parts of my brain that may have been wholly dry before. These effects don't decrease over time (if anything, they accumulate a little), but that may be due to naturally low/absent levels and may not rule out tolerance when stacking this kind of intake on higher natural levels.

Edited by Raza, 11 May 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[NMDAstronaut]

Do you usually feel less sociable than the average person seems?

Oxytocin has some very nice effects, but with the price of nasal sprays (that I've found) and the noted low rate of it crossing the BBB when administered this way these always seemed like an ineffective choice. I'm actually interested in your brand names/source.

5HT-1a stimulation causes oxytocin release, which unless you're already optimising serotonin or are declining to for other reasons seems like a more accessible source.
As someone with a naturally barely active oxytocinergic system (autism spectrum), I found that oxytocin releases 'activate' social enjoyment and awareness parts of my brain that may have been wholly dry before. These effects don't decrease over time (if anything, they accumulate a little), but that may be due to naturally low/absent levels and may not rule out tolerance when stacking this kind of intake on higher natural levels.

Thanks for your reply.
Yes, I do feel somewhat less sociable than the average person. For me it is more of anxiety and self image. I have had the most success in the past overcoming this for periods of time with piracetam however eventually I hit a wall with the efficacy of piracetam even after trying many different dosing regimens with and without choline sources, fish oil etc. After four months away from piracetam, it again seems to be somewhat beneficial but I am looking for either another route that is more sustainable or if not that perhaps I can cycle the piracetam with other sources that are beneficial - oxytocin may turn out to be one of these.

So, for me, on the third day of use (the day after writing that post) the oxytocin did seem to again require higher dosing with seemingly less benefit. I used many dosages of nasal as well as the sublingual drops through the day. I know there is less data on the sublingual oxytocin application but it does seem to produce a mild effect as well and this is not illogical to me given that sublingual absorption bypasses first pass and besides the major issue with oral oxytocin is that it's destroyed in the GI tract - something avoided by SL absorption. I'm beginning to think this may be something I can use on a weekend basis and perhaps piracetam and or other racetams during the week.

Interesting you mentioned the 5HT1. I responded well to mirtazapine, a 5HT1 antagonist. I wonder about buspar as well. I also wonder if taking these meds would possibly potentiate exogenous oxytocin use.

The brand I used was "oxytocin factor"

best luck and let me know how it goes if you try it or have any more thoughts on this topic

Edited by NMDAstronaut, 13 May 2012 - 04:41 AM.

[ta5]

How long do you feel it working? The half-life of oxytocin is less than 20 minutes.

[NMDAstronaut]

How long do you feel it working? The half-life of oxytocin is less than 20 minutes.

I am aware of this data as well. In spite of this data however, the effects seem to last for me about 1-4 hours depending on how much I take. As I reported though they seemed to diminish over the first few days. I understand that the half life of this chemical is short but this must mean then that the effects exerted by the chemical are having longer lasting effects than the chemical is in the system in significant concentrations. This is not hard to imagine that it kicks of second messenger and downstream cascades and perhaps activates neurocircuits putting the brain into a more social pattern of operation that can outlast the initial stimulus. We see this phenomenon of the brain getting into a pattern that outlasts initial stimulus quite often - one need look no further than the fight or flight reaction for an obvious example of this.

[Raza]

Thanks for your reply.
Yes, I do feel somewhat less sociable than the average person. For me it is more of anxiety and self image. I have had the most success in the past overcoming this for periods of time with piracetam however eventually I hit a wall with the efficacy of piracetam even after trying many different dosing regimens with and without choline sources, fish oil etc. After four months away from piracetam, it again seems to be somewhat beneficial but I am looking for either another route that is more sustainable or if not that perhaps I can cycle the piracetam with other sources that are beneficial - oxytocin may turn out to be one of these.

So, for me, on the third day of use (the day after writing that post) the oxytocin did seem to again require higher dosing with seemingly less benefit. I used many dosages of nasal as well as the sublingual drops through the day. I know there is less data on the sublingual oxytocin application but it does seem to produce a mild effect as well and this is not illogical to me given that sublingual absorption bypasses first pass and besides the major issue with oral oxytocin is that it's destroyed in the GI tract - something avoided by SL absorption. I'm beginning to think this may be something I can use on a weekend basis and perhaps piracetam and or other racetams during the week.

Interesting you mentioned the 5HT1. I responded well to mirtazapine, a 5HT1 antagonist. I wonder about buspar as well. I also wonder if taking these meds would possibly potentiate exogenous oxytocin use.

The brand I used was "oxytocin factor"

best luck and let me know how it goes if you try it or have any more thoughts on this topic

Have you tried aniracetam for social purposes? It has anxiolytic effects over the D2 and D3 receptors, and weak reception at the D2 receptor has been implicated in social anxiety. Which is why Buspar isn't recommended for social anxiety despite the promising 5HT1a agonism, it has D2 antagonism on the side.

Aside from dopamine and oxytocin, I find GABA B stimulation to make sociable without being sedative. You could play around with phenibut, which is readily available all over the internet, but as a GABA agonist you'd have to reserve it for special days or rapidly cycle it in and out to avoid tolerance and withdrawals.

Thanks for the brand name, I'll look it up.

Edited by Raza, 14 May 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[NMDAstronaut]

Have you tried aniracetam for social purposes? It has anxiolytic effects over the D2 and D3 receptors, and weak reception at the D2 receptor has been implicated in social anxiety. Which is why Buspar isn't recommended for social anxiety despite the promising 5HT1a agonism, it has D2 antagonism on the side.

Aside from dopamine and oxytocin, I find GABA B stimulation to make sociable without being sedative. You could play around with phenibut, which is readily available all over the internet, but as a GABA agonist you'd have to reserve it for special days or rapidly cycle it in and out to avoid tolerance and withdrawals.

Thanks for the brand name, I'll look it up.

Thanks for that info. I did not know that about buspar and D2, interesting. I do like some of the GABAergic agents. I have tried phenibut and can use it no more than one to two times per week without building tolerance but its a great substance, I also like picamilon though I don't know I've nailed down the dosing to avoid sedation. Both of these, I agree, as with any GABAergic need be used infrequently. Two other substances that make me more sociable that have dopaminergic (and cholinergic) activity are sulbutiamine and DMAE. DMAE interestingly makes me euphoric for about two days then anxious in a very predictable pattern. Sulbutiamine starts to decrease in efficacy after 3-4 days for me.

I like aniracetam but I still haven't quite figured it out yet. So far I've had mixed results. The first night I tried it was amazing. Very sharp, talkative energetic witty. Then the next few days I was tired on it. I had however worked a 24 hour shift just the day before the first day of trying it though so it may indeed have just been fatigue catching up with me even though I had a full nights sleep between - often I have this lag time of sleep fatigue. I plan on investigating this substance further however.

For now I'm working on mastering the dosing of piracetam and oxiracetam combination with cdp 4-5 days of the week. The weekends I'm planning to cycle them out and cycle in DMAE and sulbutiamine with oxytocin prn over weekend and perhaps one afternoon on the weekdays that I have to meet in groups and be quite social. I'll probably work in the phenibut for occasions as well.

On a side note, anyone else have the strange phenomenon of dysarthria with the racetams at certain dosing? It is a frustrating phenomenon that perhaps but doesn't always seem to neatly correspond in a U shaped curve distribution with dosing. When I hit the sweet spot, the dysarthria melts into very clear fluid speech more clear than my baseline without the substance but the times of dysarthria can be a bit embarrassing and I hope not too noticeable. (This topic may require an entirely new thread)

[manic_racetam]

Has it caused any fluid retention at that dosage? I've read it can have similar fluid retention effects as desmopressin. That's the main thing that's kept me from trying this. Also I worry about developing intimate relationships that are based solely on hormone levels. Do you think this is a valid fear or am I exaggerating the effects?

[NMDAstronaut]

If I have experienced any fluid retention from this dosage it has not been enough for me to notice that I am experiencing it : ). I also don't know that it will create fake relationships. I have used this around a lot of people and it hasn't made me fall in love with any of them : )

[Colour]

Has there been any update? Any update to its effectiveness after dosing many times?

[Bamboo]

Hi y'all I don't know how old this thread is but i am getting oxytocin from my GP in oz.
I will let you let you all know how it goes, my wife is an Aspie so its for her, but I am keen to try it out too

Dharma

[protoject]

In terms of sublingual I am wondering if there is a special medium that the oxytocin must be dissolved in, or if you can just dissolve it in whatever it's soluble in i.e. ethanol. (if you were making your own solution)