12 replies to this topic

[LazarusMan]

(Brace yourself for a long post)

I've always been an anxious person since I was young. I'm currently 23 years old. When I was younger, maybe in the 4-5th grad I had some OCD like symptoms, such as doing things a certain number of times. The doctor diagnosed it as anxiety with some OCD characteristics if I remember correctly. These never completely went away as I still find myself doing some of these things without realizing it occasionally but for the most part they're gone. Fast forward to college and I'm beginning to experience anxiousness at random time of the day but mostly a night. I'm going to include my drug use (which I'm not particularly proud of) but could possibly help understand some of what's off with my brain chemistry.

After freshman year I stopped drinking excessively, alcohol always seems to ruin my quality of sleep. However, one particular night when droke, I smoked nearly half a pack of cigarettes and inhaled most of a cigar, which is idiotic I know. Well needless to say I became incredibly ill. For the next week or so I experienced dizziness, waking up in cold sweats with my heart racing, and general anxiety. I called my doctor over the phone and since he could not prescribe anything without seeing me, recommended I take Zyrtec (anti-histamine) to help with sleep. Looking back now I had probably given myself nicotine poisoning to some extent. I smoke the refer a few times senior year but was never really a fan. The single time I ever had an extreme panic attack, to the point where I felt I needed to go to the hospital, was from consuming a brownie which contained marajuana. I was never so sure I was dieing until I remembered that no one has ever died from it. Luckily by this point I had been given .5mg of clonazepam in case of such an emergency and it helped greatly. Rounding out my hijinks during my senior year's festivities I tried MDMA for the first (and last) time. It felt as if everything was right in the world for the first 8 hours or so. The next week was like a rollercoaster ride, I would go from feeling excellent, as if the sun itself was embracing me, to breaking down into a jittery mess. To this day this confuses me since if I depleted my seratonin, then why did I sometimes feel so good in between.

So now more than a year later I still have anxiety almost on a daily basis and have tried a number of things to help. Most recently (the past two weeks) I have been experiencing panic attacks at around the same time 6:30 to 8:30 PM. The only thing I have that will help is .5 mg of Clonazepam and I still feel some of the jitteriness in the background. my quality of sleep is also poor. The following is a list of things I've tried to help alleviate my anxiety and their effectiveness:

1st MDAI (the worst idea I've ever had) - for those of you who dont know, this is a research chemical considered a seratonin releasing chemical. This I tried last month what I was becoming desperate and was very stupid on my part. I took a small dose to test for allergies (12mg). I felt relaxed for about 5 hours and then was struck with horrible anxiety and agitation.

Clonazepam - provides releif for roughly 8 hours but I still feel some background anxiousness

Phenibut - potentiates the anxiolytic effect of the klonopin, helps me relax

Kava Kava - odd combination of stimulating and relaxing, have not done very much

L-Theanine - the effects seemed to be mostly placebo except that it seemed to keep me up later at night

Lemon Balm - Nothing

Magnesium - Other than keeping me "regular" I saw no benefits

Oxiracetam - actually seems to lift some brain fog that I experience with anxiety and "cleans" my head if that makes sense, unfortunately it is also somewhat stimulating

Lexapro/Escitalopram 5mg - worked the first day (no panic attack) I felt happy and "loved up" if you will, however there was a constant background stimulation. It was like a need to constantly move. The second day I became more and more agitated and by the third day I was having anxiety and the nightly panic attacks returned.

Prozac Fluoxetine - 20mg - see above, nearly exactly the same, I was willing to give this one a chance because of the antogonism of 5ht-2c, but that clearly didn't work

Cymbalta - 30mg - see above

My guess would be SSRIs are not the solution. They literally become unbarable by the third day, making it nearly impossible to do my job. Maybe my issue is too much seratonin in the wrong places?

I always believed that a lack of seratonin was my problem but am no longer sure. Maybe the solution isn't to inhibit SERT but to use a Selective Seratonin Reuptake Enhancer? I do not want to become addicted to benzodiazepenes but I am become desperate at this point. Could dopamine be the issue? I'm literally considering trying something along the lines of 4-HO-MIPT since I have read psilocin can cure depression and anxiety.

Realistically I'd like to give more legitimate options a try first. Any suggestions?

I have been looking at Buspar/Buspirone as one possibility.

Edited by LazarusMan, 01 June 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[LazarusMan]

Also please ignore my constant mispelling of "serotonin". I can't re-edit my post for some reason.

[ooooouuuuuuuu]

Try Niacinamide 500 mg 4 times day ( max dose 2000 mg)


Funny that you recommend buspar too! I know clonazepam is best thing for my anxiety so far, but it's still physical addicting sadly.

Clonazepam also alters 5-HT1A or something. The same thing as Buspar works on. I'm going to ask this to my pdoc. :D

[LazarusMan]

I'm honestly starting to think that my anxiety stems from too much seratonin in the wrong receptors since SSRIs kind of fill them up in a broad stroke, they produce negative results for me. I'll look into your suggestion and I hope the doctor will toss me a prescription for Buspar to try.

[medievil]

After 3 days serotonine will be elevated more with SSRI treatment as presynaptic receptors downregulate wich could lead to agonism of receptors that have a bad effect in your case SSRI's can make symptions worse at first so its possible this turns into positive effects after a few weeks; with a benzo you could go trough that period.

Another option is the addition of mirtazepine.

Id be curious what a treshold non psychedelic dose of a psych would do in your case.

[LazarusMan]

I performed an allergy test of 4-HO-MiPT prior to my nightly panic attack. Its pretty active at low doses and I felt what was likely placebo, but slightly tired. Then of course the anxiety kicked in. The seems to be the pattern than anxiety gets worse a few hours before I normally sleep. I may or may not try a 5mg dose tomorrow. I have also considered Methoxetamine. I may just hold off a bit and see if any prescriptions can help. SSRIs just seem to be making me shake with anxiety after the first day.

[Luminosity]

I would look into talk therapy with a good therapist who believes in that. Psychology Today's website as a detailed list of therapists by area. It is a good resource.

You seem to have a tendency to take mind-altering or harmful substances. There is professional help for that too. Maybe your current therapist or some other source could point you in that direction. Obviously, there is rehab, therapy, twelve-step groups. Tobacco is very bad for the nervous system. A lot of chronically mentally ill people smoke. There is a connection.

People on this site, and also many doctors, tend to reduce everything to biochemistry, but I think the reality is more complicated.

Edited by Luminosity, 02 June 2012 - 05:43 AM.

[LazarusMan]

I would look into talk therapy with a good therapist who believes in that. Psychology Today's website as a detailed list of therapists by area. It is a good resource.

You seem to have a tendency to take mind-altering or harmful substances. There is professional help for that too. Maybe your current therapist or some other source could point you in that direction. Obviously, there is rehab, therapy, twelve-step groups. Tobacco is very bad for the nervous system. A lot of chronically mentally ill people smoke. There is a connection.

People on this site, and also many doctors, tend to reduce everything to biochemistry, but I think the reality is more complicated.

I failed to mention that that was the last time I smoked. I rarely drink and never smoke marajuana or do any other recreational drug. I can see why my initial post made me seem like sort of a druggy. The only things I take are in an attempt to treat my anxiety, although I must admit I've always had an interest in psychedelics but have never tried them. I'm looking at them as sort of a last resort and for possible insight they may provide, but mostly out of curiosity. Talk therapy may be a good idea. I had a therapist years ago who was a great guy but unfortunately he no longer practices. Some of the local ones I have heard not so good things about. I'l have to dig around and see if I can find a good one.

Currently I am just taking clonazapem at night when the anxiety gets really bad and am now trying l-lysine and niacinamide as recommended by some forum members, along with a good dose of exercise. We'll see how today goes.

Edited by LazarusMan, 02 June 2012 - 12:54 PM.

[Mike C]

Cognitive therapy? The bio-chemical and the nature of neurogenesis is extremely interesting in cases similiar to yours and even more extreme. If you are young even more so. You may want to check out the book-'How the Brain Changes itself"

One thing for certain Neurological paradigms are being challenged and this book is one such challenge to the old bottom up paradigm. The ? is can the conscious mind effect its own bio-chemistry/wiring. the answer seems to be decidedly yes it can-beyond anything the traditional paradigm believed possible.

http://www.nytimes.c...lth/29book.html

from the review "For neuroplasticity may prove a curse as well. The brain can think itself into ruts, with electrical habits as difficult to eradicate"

seems to me you may have conditioned yourself into this rut-a bad experience-anxiety-panic and then association and conditioning. panic is powerful and it probably has significant effect on brain wiring so that the more you have it the more likely it becomes stuck. There is a chapter in the book on OCD and how research has shown that it is like a neural short circuit that needs a lot of proper therapy and much effort from the patient to break it down.

Edited by Mike C, 02 June 2012 - 03:47 PM.

[LazarusMan]

Cognitive therapy? The bio-chemical and the nature of neurogenesis is extremely interesting in cases similiar to yours and even more extreme. If you are young even more so. You may want to check out the book-'How the Brain Changes itself"

One thing for certain Neurological paradigms are being challenged and this book is one such challenge to the old bottom up paradigm. The ? is can the conscious mind effect its own bio-chemistry/wiring. the answer seems to be decidedly yes it can-beyond anything the traditional paradigm believed possible.

http://www.nytimes.c...lth/29book.html

from the review "For neuroplasticity may prove a curse as well. The brain can think itself into ruts, with electrical habits as difficult to eradicate"

seems to me you may have conditioned yourself into this rut-a bad experience-anxiety-panic and then association and conditioning. panic is powerful and it probably has significant effect on brain wiring so that the more you have it the more likely it becomes stuck. There is a chapter in the book on OCD and how research has shown that it is like a neural short circuit that needs a lot of proper therapy and much effort from the patient to break it down.

Interesting Mike, I just ordered a copy from Amazon. Looks to be an interesting read. My doctor had a rather quick turnaround with the request for Buspirone so I've taken the 2 5mg dosages today. So far so good. No anxiety though the first dosage made me almost ecstatic and VERY happy. The next two or so hours will be the real test. Wish me luck!

[LazarusMan]

Quick update for anyone who read this down the line. Buspirone has worked very well for the last 4 or so days. There are minimal side effects though if I take 10mg instead of 5mg for a single dose I notice a distinctly "out of it" sort of feeling. Some I suppose are more sensitive than others as I read someone else on the forum needed 30mg before it was effective. To me it makes sense as Buspirone is targeted at one serotonin receptor (5HT1A) rather than the blanket effect on all receptors of SSRIs. Honestly SSRIs made me feel like I was losing my mind.

Edited by LazarusMan, 05 June 2012 - 07:45 PM.

[jadamgo]

What medieval said. The SSRIs make you feel worse before you feel better. Psychs commonly prescribe a month's supply of benzo (though I'd suggest trazodone and/or buspirone instead) to help you get through that first few weeks of anxiety. By the time your supply runs out, the SSRI will have done its job and you'll be consistently more relaxed.

Having said that, I'd say that any of the new scientifically validated psychotherapies for anxiety like CBT or ACT would be better than a drug. It costs more in the short term but it permanently cures the condition instead of covering up the symptoms.

[medievil]

Its hard to say something covers up symptions; sero genes have been associated with several disorders so in those causes SSRI's directly target the issue; in other cases they cover up the symptions and i other cases they destroy your emotions as that kills depression too (smart meds they are).