46 replies to this topic

[Hebbeh]

Since I drink 5 nights a week I have been heavily looking into ways to minimize toxicity. Besides drinking, my diet is quite strong (no grains, vitamin D supplements.. omega 3.. Heavy vegetables and grass fed beef).

Anyway, even if I hardly would get hangovers before, I have been taking 600mg NAC + 1g Vit C + 100mg B1 before drinking and I often take another 600mb NAC and 1g vit C an hour after I start drinking. So far it seems to have really prevented hangovers for me. I also mostly drink vodka now since it's the least damaging alcohol according to what others have said in this thread and on this chart http://www.bulletpro...ess-networking/ (this link is also where I got my initial inspiration to try NAC + Vit C + B1). If you want the information behind that post, most of it is from http://www.ceri.com/alcohol.htm.


Now, what I am not sure of and would like help is, when to take NAC? As others have pointed out apparently if you take it too late it's actually more harmful than good. However, I don't think that study involved the rats using vit C? The reason Vit C is taken with NAC is because it apparently helps NAC be "on the job". I take time released vitamin C with rose hip, this is so vitamin C is constantly being deployed during the hours NAC is fighting alcohol... I usually take the first round about 10 minutes before I start drinking because I heard NAC has a short half life... I think I had read as low as 30 minutes on these forums (!!!!). On this product page at iherb the manufcaturer says 1.5 hours for normal NAC supplement half life. If this is true, I probably should take it 30 minutes before I start drinking so I have an hour going on it and then I pop the second round an hour later (for a total of 2:30 protected at least... I usually drink heavily fast since I drink vodka straight up but I stop rapidly and start drinking water)


Also, something else very relevant to me because I drink often and might help others. MAGNESIUM SUPPLEMENTATION. I after I started drinking 5 nights a week for the past 6 months I started getting leg cramps... I was not sure why but then I realized I needed magnesium so I started supplementing with 400mg a day. It was not always enough and I was wondering why I needed to up the dosage... I realized a few days ago it's because alcohol flushes out a lot of magnesium so I now take some when I wake up and before going to bed (I usually stopped drinking alcohol 3-4 hours prior to bedtime).

Anyway, for hangover prevention I think NAC + Vit C + B1 is all you need. Try it out once before your party to make sure it works for you... For me I never get hangovers now BUT I also only had one 10-20% of the time before and it was quite mild (so my body is probably quite resistant to alcohol toxicity... I'm also in my mid 20s)

I'll definitely try milk thistle... I want to make sure my liver is protected... I won't be drinking this much alcohol for much longer but for now I want my partying to not destroy my liver in the future.

I don't drink and believe that is the best advice....I see absolutely no point in it. But if I did...I would error on the side of caution and not take any NAC more than 2 hrs prior and at least 12-18 hrs after (depending on the amount of alcohol imbibed...8 hrs would be fine for 2-3 drinks but I'd wait 18 hrs if I got bombed)...because you have no proof that vitamin C is going to prevent the liver damage so why chance it? And besides, the NAC itself isn't what does the magic...it's the NAC converting into glutathione in the liver that is the mechanism at work.....and it takes time for the liver to convert the NAC into glutathione...that is why you want to take it a couple hours before...on an empty stomach...so it can get into the liver and turn to glutathione....and alcohol appears to interfere with this process. You want to build glutathione levels in the liver prior to putting the stress on it. Or you can ignore the research and throw alcohol on the fire if you chose.

[Godot]

I can't see much reason to select NAC over l-cysteine. There are some issues with absorption of l-cysteine, but they seem to mostly result from oxidation in the gut. It seems like taking it along with a bunch of anti-oxidants should help correct this.

Also, NAC's mucous-dissolving properties could exacerbate alcohol's irritation of the stomach lining. Maybe something similar is the cause of increased liver damage when NAC is taken after alcohol.

[Hebbeh]

From what I've read over the years, cysteine didn't raise glutathione levels but NAC did...supposedly because cysteine doesn't survive the gut....and that is why NAC has been such a popular supplement for a very long time...but cysteine isn't. The following came from Wiki but notice no citations...so take with a huge grain of salt......

Cysteine has been proposed as a preventative or antidote for some of the negative effects of alcohol, including liver damage and hangover. It counteracts the poisonous effects of acetaldehyde, which is the major by-product of alcohol metabolism and is responsible for most of the negative aftereffects and long-term damage associated with alcohol use (but not the immediate effects of drunkenness). Cysteine supports the next step in metabolism, which turns acetaldehyde into the relatively harmless acetic acid. In a rat study, test animals received an LD₅₀ dose of acetaldehyde (the amount that normally kills half of all animals). Those that received cysteine had an 80% survival rate; when both cysteine and thiamine were administered, all animals survived.^[24] There is not yet direct evidence for or against its effectiveness in humans who consume alcohol at normal levels.
Cysteine is catabolized in the gastrointestinal tract and blood plasma^{[citation needed]}. In contrast, cystine travels safely through the GI tract and blood plasma and is promptly reduced to the two cysteine molecules upon cell entry^{[citation needed]}.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cysteine

[Godot]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20067348

Influence of vitamin E on alcohol-induced changes in antioxidant defenses in mice liver.

Authors Kaur J, et al. Show all Journal
Toxicol Mech Methods. 2010 Feb;20(2):82-9.

Affiliation
Department of Biophysics, Panjab University, Chandigarh 160014, India.

Abstract
It is widely accepted that oxidative stress plays a central role in alcohol-induced pathogenesis. Redox-sensitive transcription factors nuclear factor-kappaB (NFkappaB) and activator protein-1 (AP1) are involved in development of alcohol-related diseases. Because of its antioxidative properties, vitamin E is believed to prevent diseases associated with oxidative stress. The aim of the present study was to evaluate the molecular mechanism associated with alcohol-induced oxidative stress and its prevention with vitamin E supplementation. Male Balb/c mice were divided into three groups viz. group I (control), group II (alcohol-treated) and group III (alcohol-treated + Vitamin E supplemented). Group II received 8% alcohol as sole source of drinking fluid while group III was given Vitamin E orally as 5 IU/kg body weight along with 8% alcohol. After 15 days, increases in lipid peroxidation, catalase and GST activity and decreases in SOD activity as well as redox ratio were observed in group II. This was associated with increased apoptosis in this group. Vitamin E supplementation restored the redox status, reduced apoptosis and prevented oxidative stress. Further mRNA expression of cjun, cfos, p65 (NFkappaB) showed increased expression during oxidative stress in group II. Although inhibition in NFkappaB activation was observed with Vitamin E, on the contrary it stimulated AP1 expression. This study supports the fact that alcohol promoted oxidative stress and is the major cause of alcohol toxicity in liver. Vitamin E can mitigate the toxic effects of alcohol and can be suitably used as a potential therapeutic agent for alcohol-induced oxidative damage in liver.

[Godot]

This paper suggests that NAC is a better source of cysteine than cysteine itself, and has reduced potential for toxicity following oxidation. http://www.fluimucil...alysis-2007.pdf

So maybe NAC is a better choice after all.

[Logic]

I find that activated charcoal before and pro-biotics (yogurt) after drinking stops me from getting an upset stomach.

Also circumin and resveratrol with lots of water straight after helps me a lot.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16117621

http://ajpgi.physiol...284/2/G321.long

http://www.vrp.com/h...hol-consumption

Thx for all the other well researched supplement advice: Im definitely going to try it next time (rare) with/without activated charcoal which may absorb some of them.

[Godot]

Thanks for finding those papers, Logic. Pretty juicy stuff there.

I never considered activated charcoal, mostly cause I only drink the good stuff and I usually eat in close proximity to drinking.

[Logic]

Thanks for finding those papers, Logic. Pretty juicy stuff there.

I never considered activated charcoal, mostly cause I only drink the good stuff and I usually eat in close proximity to drinking.

NP

Activated Charcoal and Kremizin are interesting, but there's a lot of homework to be done about exactly what is and isnt absorbed:
Its pointless taking em if they suck up all the suppliments you take while they'r still in the gut!

http://morelife.org/...s/kremezin.html

[DamnedOwl]

Bump: Just been reading the thread and I'm curious about one thing...

...how did the bachelor party (and wedding, and, erm...honeymoon) go? Did your stack work?

[medievil]

".I see absolutely no point in it." it makes party's fun, but then again its a weak sauce drug

[Godot]

Things didn't go as planned with the bachelor party -- I forgot to bring the supps with me :D

But, since then I've experimented a bunch of different ways, and here are my findings:

* I haven't found milk thistle to be effective when taken right before & after drinking, but when taken regularly for a couple weeks it reduces my susceptibility to hangover
* I've seen the best effects from NAC + VitC before drinking, and ALA afterward, before bed

I'm interested in testing apple cider vinegar.

[Godot]

Two other notes: in a pinch, ALA before bed pretty much cuts my hangovers in half.

This just occurred to me -- some sodium bicarbonate before bed might also be helpful. I need to try this.

[boomer11]

pyritinol is pretty effective. I take 400mg-ish before bed on thursday nights (2-3am) and wake up feeling pretty good for 930 class

[gatornoot]

S-NAC is a NAC + sulbutiamine supplement specifically marketed as a hangover-preventing nootropic supplement. I take it along with vitamin C before drinking and it works like a charm. It also works without vitamin C, though not as well.

You can buy it from www.Vitalitus.com

[Lobotomy]

Don't drink so god damned much. Chase your drinks with water.

 

But to answer your question, lipids and bread. Go get yourself a BLT. Anything that may help outside of that: Piracetam to counter vasoconstriction that leads to a headache, Emergen-C, a shitload of water.

Edited by Lobotomy, 02 January 2015 - 07:21 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

20 mg of C60 in EVOO, and 2-4 grams omega 3. 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 02 January 2015 - 09:30 PM.

[Mr Matsubayashi]

NAC works for me, see here for an explanation on MOA. Check at 34:26

 

Silymarin should help in theory, there are also reports that C60inOO works. Try NAC first, it's cheap OTC.

 

A mate of mine swears by glutathione the following day and don't forget lots of water.

Edited by Mr Matsubayashi, 07 January 2015 - 01:48 PM.