13 replies to this topic

[bernard]

This is gonna be a really short question but I'm not sure the answer is anywhere near easy. Based on the supplement facts on the bottle St. John's Wort is nothing but the mildest MAOI and mood-enhancer. Yet the side effects list in Wiki is so long and some really serious drugs like Valproic Acid say in their manuals never to mix with St. John's Wort.

What's that all about ? I have this feeling that there is more than meets the eye to this herb.

[Lufega]

I think this herb is awsome. I have never used it myself, yet, but it's no accident that it's one of the most common supps. out there. From my notes, these are some of the things that impressed me:

*Grrrr..I just reformatted my computer so I have all my notes in my HD. Will get back to you on that info. From memory though, I know it's a COMT inhibitor so it increases dopamine and it also affects growth hormone secretion. Pretty neat.

[West-en]

It's extremely powerful. I use it for low depression, insomnia and anxiety, and it works neatly for all three. Interestingly I remember reading somewhere that St John's Worth were about as efficient in treating depression as SSRI:s, but with a lot less side effects (no it weren't on the label of the product but in a book about pharmacology). It's surprisingly effective for being a herbal supplement!
If you research the active substances (hypericin, hyperforin) you quickly find that they are effective in a lot more mechanisms than MAO-inhibition (although weakly).

It acts as a reuptake inhibitor of monoamines, including serotonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, and of GABA and glutamate, with IC₅₀ values of 0.05-0.10 mcg/mL for all compounds, with the exception of glutamate, which is in the 0.5 mcg/mL range. Hyperforin also inhibits the reuptake of glycine and choline,
Hyperforin is also thought to be responsible for the induction of the cytochrome P450 enzymes CYP3A4 and CYP2C9 by binding to and activating the pregnane X receptor (PXR).
Hyperforin has been found to be a potent inhibitor of COX-1 and 5-LO with IC₅₀ values of 0.3μM and 90nM respectively. Giving it an anti-inflammatory action of approximately 3-18 times stronger than aspirin.
Hyperforin has antibiotic properties and is active against methicillin-resistant strains of Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) with a minimal inhibitory concentration (MIC) value of 1.0 μg/mL,

Hypericin is believed to act as an antibiotic and non-specific kinase inhibitor. Hypericin may inhibit the action of the enzyme dopamine β-hydroxylase, leading to increased dopamine levels, although thus possibly decreasing norepinephrine and epinephrine.
The crude extract of Hypericum is a weak inhibitor of MAO-A and MAO-B. Isolated hypericin does not display this activity, but does have some affinity for NMDA receptors. This points in the direction that other constituents are responsible for the MAOI effect.

Yeah, there may be more effects and more active constituents. Pretty impressive herb.

Edited by West-en, 05 July 2012 - 08:19 AM.

[bernard]

Oh I see. Nice.

Thanks.

[spookytooth]

I gave St. John's Worth a try during a phase of depression and it was of no help to me. I started at 400mg and dosed consequently up to 1800mg for about 6 weeks. But as I said to no avail.

[bernard]

Says on the label - no more than 900mg/day. Big doses can led to skin discoloration. Any ideas what's with that ?

[spookytooth]

I believe doses up to 1800mg are approved over here in Germany. I didn't notice any discoloration of my skin ^^ I also don't remember reading about that in the package insert. Just something about heightened sensitivity to sunlight.

[spookytooth]

I looked it up. THe only side effects listed are heightened sensitivity to sunlight which might result in getting sunburns faster and agitation.

[bernard]

Sure, but why does this happen ?

[Logan]

Your best bet is a low dose of Lexapro or Zoloft.

[bernard]

Would they cause the desired permanent effect in the long run after I stop them ?

[Thorsten3]

SJW has quite a few studies on pubmed if you have the time to look them up. Research into the compounds hypericin and hyperforin. These are the active constituents in SJW.

Plus there are lots of other constituents in there that are either poorly studied or I am unaware of.

If you google hyperforin and look on wiki it hows says it is a serotonin, l- glutamate, norephinephrine, dopamine and GABA re-uptake inhibitor.

Also from wiki:

Hyperforin has been found to be a potent inhibitor of COX-1 and 5-LO with IC₅₀ values of 0.3μM and 90nM respectively. Giving it an anti-inflammatory action of approximately 3-18 times stronger than aspirin

So it is highly anti-inflammatory and I also remmember reading a post from FunkOddessey on M&M a while back where he posted up studies showing it to be highly efficacious for the bowel as well. Basically anything that inhibits the reuptake of serotonin or the degradation of the MAO-A enyme is going to be beneficial for people who suffer with IBS. I personally noticed my BM's were very regular when I was taking the herb.

I would say which brand you choose matters immensely. All of the brands used in studies are either Kira or Perika. There may be a very small number for Serofin, SC27 and HBC but I am not aware of them. People do sometimes have success with other obscure brands but it probably would be better to go with brands that actually have the scientific evidence behind them.

In my own expereince though I never got on with SJW. It made me slightly hypomanic and didn't satisfy my mood disorder which I suspect is somewhat more than mild/moderate depression. SJW also made me quite assy with people after a few days on it and I noticed my rummination was getting worse on it - so was making my mood disorder worse. I initially thought this was because it was upregualting 5HT1A (which it does) and my cortisol was getting too high (5HT1A releases cortisol). I tried playing around with doses (as recommended by people) but the aggression still persisted. Perhaps it was the NE? I never react well to stuff that increases NE (Wellbutrin, a2 antagonists,etc). Or could have been a combination of things. No matter, it didn't work for me.

I actually disagree with Morgan about touting the SSRIs as something better. They are better I agree and I myself had better success with them for nailing my symptons, but they blunted me to such an extent (even in lower doses for me) where I found it impossible to connect to people and grow as a person. Part of life is about getting hurt and experiencing sadness and SSRIs truly robbed me of these emotional experiences to the point where I literally didn't give a shit about anything. Just horrible. I do think serotonin is indeed a very important part of the puzzle with depression but SSRIs in my opinion should only be used short term (6 months max) and for very serious bouts of major depression. Mine was serious and although the SSRI really helped initially I decided to come off after a year. I am now two weeks off and not doing great but not doing bad either.

Edited by Thorsten2, 18 July 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[bernard]

Wow Thorsten, that was a great post. Thank you so much.

[1thoughtMaze1]

Says on the label - no more than 900mg/day. Big doses can led to skin discoloration. Any ideas what's with that ?

Skin discoloration usually means that your liver is failing and your skin is compensating the task of cleaning your blood, really bad sighn