40 replies to this topic

[HighDesertWizard]

HappyPhysicist... Did you see this yesterday?

How immune system, inflammation may play role in Lou Gehrig's disease

If some resolution of a disease is assisted by an Omega 3, then it always implicates 5-LO (5-Lipoxygenase) and the Leukotrienes in some way and, specifically, one or more of the "4" series Leukotrienes rather than the 5 series Leukotrienes. (The 4 series is significantly more inflammatory and so the point is to shift Lipoxygenase processing to the 5 series Leukotrienes. Our diets are so Omega 6 overloaded that 5-LO is almost always written about in terms of the Leukotriene 4 series and the 4 series is assumed...)

Perhaps you are already acquainted with the science of auto-immunity and 5-LO, variables associated with it, and ALS. Perhaps not. I don't know. But if not, here are some google scholar searches I would look at if I were you.

"resolvin d1 mmp-9 amyotrophic lateral sclerosis"
"resolvin d1 tnf amyotrophic lateral sclerosis"

The Matrix Metalloproteinases (MMPs) are important for the remodeling of tissue. Sometimes they play positive roles, sometimes negative. I know something about MMP-9 because it is implicated in plaque rupture and erosion and I have CAD. (Interesting story... It turns out that MMP-9 is implicated in an equine (yes, horse) disease Laminitis (the separation of hoof to tissue). Because I knew about MMP-9 in my own case, I was able to use google scholar to see that MMP-9 was implicated in Laminitis and point to a product which inhibited MMP-9 in horses. And then the horse got better...) MMP-9 inhibition can be done...

You may already be familiar with all this... Dunno... I mention it In case, not... I am always astounded at how little "the folks in white folks" actually are up to speed on the literature...

That TNF is implicated does implicate the autonomic system imbalance and perhaps effort to correct that imbalance might help a bit.
http://onlinelibrary...181103/abstract

That TNF is implicated also means that massive doses of varied 5-(and 15-)Lipoxygenase inhibitors should be tried if you haven't already tried them. I say varied to get at the insight William Li pointed to in a Ted Talk youtube video that I posted up thread entitled Can we Eat To Starve Cancer. His discussion of Blended Green Tea approaches sometime after the halfway point is the point about "varied."

Are you doing massive doses of Omega 3?
http://ars.els-cdn.c...0000374-gr1.jpg
from here... http://www.sciencedi...740676510000374

----
About doing this Buckyball experiment... The relationship of TNF to various types of SOD is complex but their processing is extremely closely related. When niner talks about SOD and I reference TNF, I've come to believe we're likely talking about the same biological process, just different nodes/dimensions/aspects of it. You can use google scholar to see that for yourself.

Also, SOD has been shown to inhibit MMP-9...
http://www.sciencedi...891584907007289

And Boswellia has been shown to inhibit MMP-9.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21078271
I once experienced a virtually immediate vanishing of my carpal tunnel syndrome symptoms through massive Boswellia (AKBA) (5-Loxin) doses. It's been a while since I looked, I believe MMP-2 or MMP-3 is implicated in CTS. (Something like what Turnbuckle experienced with C60/Olive Oil.)

All this to get to the point to say... That 5-LO inhibitors and SOD have both been shown to reduce/inhibit MMP-9 is not an accident. I think it means they are part of the same process, just different dimensions of it.

Here's a study that strongly suggests precisely that... it also suggests that multi-dimensional thinking is a good thing and I've argued that elsewhere up thread...
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21777517

So, I think your participation is this experiment is a VERY good idea except for the caveat immediately below. I also think you need to ramp up your Omega 3 dose dramatically if you haven't done so already... Make it massive...

----
One caveat... You mentioned a genetic difference among some Scottish/Irish? individuals such that their ALS worsened with immune suppression intervention? That doesn't make sense to me. Wouldn't that be a different disease? Send me a link and I'll look at it. If you have that wierd genetic variant all these thoughts should be ignored.

----
If you're doing an immune suppression approach without consciously inhibiting 5-LO, that's a mistake. If you'd like to discuss further I'd be happy to talk about it with you. If you are going to do conscious/deliberate 5-LO/LTB4 inhibition multiple varied inhibitors is important. See the Li video. I've experienced the benefit of some 5-LO inhibition only through the use of multiple and varied 5-LO inhibitors. In short, I've validated, for and in myself, that Li is on point about this...

Best wishes!

Edited by wccaguy, 06 June 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[HappyPhysicist]

wccaguy,

Thanks for all of that information. It is going to take me a little while to digest it. We should probably take that conversation 'offline' so as not to derail this thread.

Thanks,

Ben

[CaptainFuture]

Ben, this is awesome, thank you for posting all that info. You probably already know it but there seems to be a new finding about the causes of ALS. Resolvin D1 seems to inhibit the dangerous activity of macro-phages, which are destroying healthy neurons. Keep up your great work.

http://www.scienceda...20605121704.htm
...

Specifically, the team found that inflammation instigated by the immune system in ALS can trigger macrophages -- cells responsible for gobbling up waste products in the brain and body -- to also ingest healthy neurons. During the inflammation process, motor neurons, whether healthy or not, are marked for clean-up by the macrophages.

In addition, the team found that a lipid mediator called resolvin D1, which is made in the body from the omega-3 fatty acid DHA, was able to "turn off" the inflammatory response that made the macrophages so dangerous to the neurons. Resolvin D1 blocked the inflammatory proteins being produced by the macrophages, curbing the inflammation process that marked the neurons for clean-up. It inhibited key inflammatory proteins like IL-6 with a potency 1,100 times greater than the parent molecule, DHA. DHA has been shown in studies to be neuroprotective in a number of conditions, including stroke and Alzheimer's disease.

[HappyPhysicist]

Thank you wccaguy and CapatinFuture for the links. That study popped up on my google alerts this morning. While it has been known for quite some time now that inflammation is one of the factors in ALS, this particular way of turning off the inflammatory response is new. In fact I was on an experimental drug, sodium chlorite, which is believed to work by turning off the inflammatory response. For about 6 months the effect of the drug was nothing short of miraculous. My disease progression not only stopped, but I actually began to get better. This simply does not happen in ALS. However, after about 6 months I began to progress again. The best theory now is that there are two components to ALS 1) Motor neuron degeneration and 2) and autoimmune response that accelerates that degeneration. So while sodium chlorite seemed to address # 2, after about 6 months #1 caught up and began to erase my gains.

The hope here is that C60 might address #1.

Another interesting thing about this find is that resolvin comes from DHA, however, it has been shown that increasing your intake of DHA (in the form of vitamin E at least) does not slow ALS. So there seems to be some breakdown in the bodies ability to produce resolvin from DHA. So a therapy would likely involve a direct intake of resolvin and if it doesn't pass the blood brain barrier on its own, it would have to be injected directly into the spinal fluid.

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 06 June 2012 - 03:19 PM.

[HighDesertWizard]

The hope here is that C60 might address #1.

Another interesting thing about this find is that resolvin comes from DHA, however, it has been shown that increasing your intake of DHA (in the form of vitamin E at least) does not slow ALS. So there seems to be some breakdown in the bodies ability to produce resolvin from DHA. So a therapy would likely involve a direct intake of resolvin and if it doesn't pass the blood brain barrier on its own, it would have to be injected directly into the spinal fluid.

Ben... I hope that C60 can help resolve it. I'm confused by your comment about DHA "(in the form of Vitamin E)". DHA is an Omega 3. More than that, if you look at that ScienceDaily article...

"resolvin D1, which is made in the body from the omega-3 fatty acid DHA, was able to "turn off" the inflammatory response that made the macrophages so dangerous to the neurons. Resolvin D1 blocked the inflammatory proteins being produced by the macrophages, curbing the inflammation process that marked the neurons for clean-up. It inhibited key inflammatory proteins like IL-6 with a potency 1,100 times greater than the parent molecule, DHA."

It seems to me that the point about Resolvin D1, for you, is not about IT, per se, it's about its function in the body, it "blocked the inflammatory proteins being produced by the macrophages... like IL-6." THAT is what 5-LO Pathway inhibition is about and there are multiple ways to inhibit 5-LO pathway inflammation.

"Inflammatory Pathways" are precisely that. They are pathways, with multiple intersections. and alternative routing patterns. I have non-trivial DiY expertise in these Pathways, it's the "Dimension" I know the most about and I'm pretty fast at figuring out the alternative means to suppress "markers" of inflammation, like IL-6, TNF, MMP-9, etc. I'm certain there are other things for you to do and I'd be happy to work with you in in more detail if you like. At a minimum, IMHO, from just 5 to 10 minutes of browsing, I'm pretty clear that inhibition of MMP-9 expression ought to be high on your agenda.

I never assume that people aren't getting good advice from their doctors about inflammation inhibition. I'm never surprised when they aren't getting good advice from their doctors it. Based on what you've written, my impression is that you aren't. They don't keep up to date about the inflammation literature. And most don't know how to quickly search that literature. I do. It IS my schtick...

I agree that we ought not clutter this forum thread with this discussion. If you create another thread about ALS and alternative mechanisms for Immune Suppression/Anti-Inflammatory activity and point me to it, I'll join you there and spend time to work through issues in detail, everything
documented in scientific studies,

Best regards...

Edited by wccaguy, 06 June 2012 - 04:21 PM.

[SarahVaughter]

I wrote my POV about what I think is a major cause of ALS:
http://www.als-cure.com/ALS.pdf
(free download, 156 pages)
I post this to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest, since I run a site about ALS and we will soon sell C60-in-oil.
So for the record, I do not think the C60 oil will help PALS much, if at all.

[HighDesertWizard]

At a minimum, IMHO, from just 5 to 10 minutes of browsing, I'm pretty clear that inhibition of MMP-9 expression ought to be high on your agenda.

I wrote my POV about what I think is a major cause of ALS:
http://www.als-cure.com/ALS.pdf
(free download, 156 pages)
I post this to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest, since I run a site about ALS and we will soon sell C60-in-oil.
So for the record, I do not think the C60 oil will help PALS much, if at all.

I'm not at all familiar with Lyme Disease. Not one iota. I do understand something about inflammatory diseases. I just wrote, Ben, that you should be looking at inhibiting IL-6, TNF, and especially MMP-9 (matrix metalloproteinase-9).

But from, literally, less than a 2 minutes browse, I gather that Sarah argues that ALS has a lot to do with Lyme Disease. That's all I needed to know to find this in 30 seconds... And there are a lot more like it...

Upregulation of matrix metalloproteinase-9 in the cerebrospinal fluid of patients with acute Lyme neuroborreliosis

Ben... I strongly recommend taking advantage of Sarah's expertise as much as you can. I recommend creating a new thread to discuss your issues...

Thanks Sarah for posting !!!

Edited by wccaguy, 06 June 2012 - 04:34 PM.

[SarahVaughter]

@wccaguy:

My position that ALS, MS and Alzheimer have an infectious etiology is highly controversial in medical circles, esp. the ALS-Lyme connection. In microbiological circles however, the situation is very different. Sadly, MD's do not really care about what microbiologists publish.


@hav:

I don'tthink there are supposed to be layers, only a small sediment. The rest is C60 dissolved in oil with some very small C60 crystals + nanoparticles.

The crystals > 0.22 nm will be stopped by the filter. That's approx. 5 times smaller than a red blood cell. The nanoparticles will pass the filter.

Edited by SarahVaughter, 06 June 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[HappyPhysicist]

wccaguy,

Now they they have split off this thread I think it would be great to map our your details more. I haven't posted here is a while but I am back because I have found a few things which lead me back to the points you are making.

First, I think you are right, I need massive doses of DHA. I am taking about 1 g of algae DHA and about 2 g of fish oil a day. I started this week. I am also taking one 81 mg enteric capsule of aspirin a day. Apparently aspirin can be a kind of catalyst to help form Resolvin from DHA:

http://lipidlibrary....cresol/file.pdf

Also, I am finding that not only are Omega 3's anti-inflammatory but Omega 6's are pro-inflammatory. I am now scrutinizing my diet to see how I can reduce Omega 6's from my diet. Right now I eat only Ensure, olive oil and coconut oil. I am seriously considering trying to dissolve C60 in fish oil and use fish oil as my primary supplement to Ensure. Ensure has corn oil but I can't do anything about that.

Can you tell me more about 5-LO inhibition? The Lee video was interesting but what he is trying to do could be counter productive for me. To combat cancer you want to suppress angiogenesis, i.e., formation of new blood cells. But it is becoming apparent that this might actually be a cause of ALS. There is a gene, the ANG, gene responsible for promoting angiogenesis and in many ALS patients this gene is defective. I am going to try to get tested for this. In those cases as the motor neurons die, in a healthy patient new blood vessels will form in those spaces to feed the remaining motor neurons, but those with this defect, which is common among scottish and irish ALS patients, the new blood vessels do not form. Therefore, it should be a good approach to encourage this blood vessel formation, not discourage it. You may increase your chances of getting cancer, but if I live long enough to get cancer that will be a victory.

Thanks,

Ben

[zorba990]

First, I think you are right, I need massive doses of DHA. I am taking about 1 g of algae DHA and about 2 g of fish oil a day. I started this week. I am also taking one 81 mg enteric capsule of aspirin a day. Apparently aspirin can be a kind of catalyst to help form Resolvin from DHA:

http://lipidlibrary....cresol/file.pdf

Also, I am finding that not only are Omega 3's anti-inflammatory but Omega 6's are pro-inflammatory. I am now scrutinizing my diet to see how I can reduce Omega 6's from my diet. Right now I eat only Ensure, olive oil and coconut oil. I am seriously considering trying to dissolve C60 in fish oil and use fish oil as my primary supplement to Ensure. Ensure has corn oil but I can't do anything about that.

Is that megsdosing DHA? I'm not saying it's not, just that I've heard of people taking much more for the megadosing effect.
e.g.
http://tnation.t-nat...a_dose_fish_oil

http://www.t-nation....gth_december_06

Edited by zorba990, 19 July 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[niner]

First, I think you are right, I need massive doses of DHA. I am taking about 1 g of algae DHA and about 2 g of fish oil a day. I started this week. I am also taking one 81 mg enteric capsule of aspirin a day. Apparently aspirin can be a kind of catalyst to help form Resolvin from DHA:

http://lipidlibrary....cresol/file.pdf

Also, I am finding that not only are Omega 3's anti-inflammatory but Omega 6's are pro-inflammatory. I am now scrutinizing my diet to see how I can reduce Omega 6's from my diet. Right now I eat only Ensure, olive oil and coconut oil. I am seriously considering trying to dissolve C60 in fish oil and use fish oil as my primary supplement to Ensure. Ensure has corn oil but I can't do anything about that.

Can you tell me more about 5-LO inhibition? [...]

Hi Ben, thanks for that link. It's kind of amazing that there is an aspirin-triggered pathway, given that aspirin is a xenobiotic, but sometimes things just happen. Some people here take a lot more fish oil than 2g; I've heard of people taking as much as 14g/d. For a healthy person, that would be insane, but you may have some room to expand that dose, even considering the gram of algal DHA. The 81mg dose of aspirin is pretty small; you could go a lot higher there. As for 5-LO, it (and other LO's)are involved in the biosynthesis of resolvins, so if you're trying to raise their level, you probably don't want a lipoxygenase inhibitor.

[HappyPhysicist]

Niner and Zorba,

Thanks so much for that info. I haven't stared 'massive' doses of DHA yet, that is just my current dosage. I will probably start taking about 30 g of fish oil as soon as I get my 500 mL bottle of it.

Thanks,

Ben

[zorba990]

Niner and Zorba,

Thanks so much for that info. I haven't stared 'massive' doses of DHA yet, that is just my current dosage. I will probably start taking about 30 g of fish oil as soon as I get my 500 mL bottle of it.

Thanks,

Ben

I thought Poliquin's assertion that paleo man ate copious amounts of brain tissue was interesting, but imagine cracking open the skull was a lot harder than drinking blood or eating some cooked or raw flesh. Probably more likely game, grassed meats had naturally higher Omega-3's, like this : www.northstarbison.com

[niner]

I will probably start taking about 30 g of fish oil as soon as I get my 500 mL bottle of it.

That would certainly qualify as massive. You may want to check your blood clotting and make sure it doesn't get too whacked out. Fish oil reduces clotting ability, though it's rarely a problem at normal doses.

[zen]

I found the article about stem cell therapy, however I am not qualified to asses whether it makes sense to consider such therapies in their current state of development.
http://blog.al.com/l...getting_st.html

[HappyPhysicist]

Just an update. I had my 3 month visit at the ALS clinic in Indianapolis. Everyone was very happy to see how well I was doing.

One of the tests I undergo is and FVC, forced vital capacity. It is basically a measure of how much air you can exhale. The scoring is done as a percentage and it takes into account your height and age. When I was first diagnosed in January of 2011 I scored 100% and over the last year and a half that has gradually diminished to my score 3 months ago of 75%. I fully expected my score this time around to be 65% given the rate of decline. However I scored 80%. That puts me just in the 'normal' range.

This increase could be due to some positive effect of C60 or one of the myriad of other supplements I am taking, but most likely it is due to the fact that I have been swimming every day for the last 3 months. So it is possible that I actually have lost neurons and muscles in my diaphragm but the remaining muscles have increased in strength due to the swimming. Therefore the swimming may merely be masking an underlying decline.

If my FVC score remains at 80% 3 months from now, then it will be hard to argue that my progression, at least in my lungs, has not significantly slowed down.

Thanks

Ben

[Raphy]

Awesome HappyPhysicist, that's good news for you

[Logic]

I read somewhere on this forum that fish oil is quite often oxidised/rancid and therefore very bad for you.
(I think it was in one of Michael's threads)
Also you may end up getting too much Alpha-Tocopherol which is used as an anti-oxidant in fish oil.

I believe that Krill oil does not have this problem due to the astaxanthin in it.
Astaxanthin is also purported to be an excellent brain ant-oxidant.
Further; you dont have to worry about mercury, lead etc with krill.

Anyway; its something to look into for such high doses of Omega-3 & DHA

[HappyPhysicist]

Logic

Great point. Do you know where I can buy krill oil by the liter?

Thanks,

Ben

[Turnbuckle]

I read somewhere on this forum that fish oil is quite often oxidised/rancid and therefore very bad for you.
(I think it was in one of Michael's threads)
Also you may end up getting too much Alpha-Tocopherol which is used as an anti-oxidant in fish oil.

I believe that Krill oil does not have this problem due to the astaxanthin in it.
Astaxanthin is also purported to be an excellent brain ant-oxidant.
Further; you dont have to worry about mercury, lead etc with krill.

Anyway; its something to look into for such high doses of Omega-3 & DHA

Long-term intake of fish oil increases oxidative stress and decreases lifespan in senescence-accelerated mice

These findings suggest that intake of fish oil increases oxidative stress, decreases cellular function, and causes organ dysfunction in SAMP8 mice, thereby promoting aging and shortening the lifespan of the mice.

[tintinet]

I read somewhere on this forum that fish oil is quite often oxidised/rancid and therefore very bad for you.
(I think it was in one of Michael's threads)
Also you may end up getting too much Alpha-Tocopherol which is used as an anti-oxidant in fish oil.

I believe that Krill oil does not have this problem due to the astaxanthin in it.
Astaxanthin is also purported to be an excellent brain ant-oxidant.
Further; you dont have to worry about mercury, lead etc with krill.

Anyway; its something to look into for such high doses of Omega-3 & DHA

From crsociety archives:

"

I would like to provide what I believe is an

unbiased summary of the current status of Michael

Rae's Fish oil-Accelerated Aging hypothesis.

(For ease of reference, let's call this the

MiRFAA hypothesis.) I think this is

necessary to counter some of the

emotionally-driven prose that has been foisted

here recently.

The MiRFAA hypothesis:

1 Dietary long-chain omega 3's are incorporated

into mitochondrial membranes, so that an

individual with a very high EPA/DHA intake

will have an unusually high concentration of

these fatty acids in the PUFA side of the

phospholipid pairs of which such membranes

are composed.

2 Membranes containing higher proportions of

double bonds are significantly more prone

to oxidation than ones with fewer.

3 Mitochondrial membrane (especially inner

membrane) oxidation is a primary cause of

aging (MiFRA theory).

--> Hence, high dietary intake of EPA and DHA

will accelerate aging.

Solid, peer-reviewed support exists for statements

1 and 2, many references for which have been

posted here recently. To be very specific, if you

eat high levels of EPA/DHA it *will* be reflected

in the composition of your cell and mitochondrial

membranes. Any of you fish-oil gobbling folks who

doubt this should have a fatty acid analysis done

of your own cells. I have had this done with mine,

and the lab results came back off the scale for

long-chain omega3 content of my *cell* membranes.

I don't know how to have my own mitochondrial

membranes tested, but since they are constructed

of the same stuff as cell membranes and since

peer-reviewed evidence makes the claim that

mitochondrial membranes are affected similarly,

I find the evidence persuasive for statement 1 above.

Incidentally, for anyone who thinks humans have

a "special" adapation to EPA/DHA dieting, that adaptation

does not consist of a way to keep these fatty

acids out of the cell & mitochondrial membranes.

There is still room for an adaptation which might

enable better *handling* of highly-unsaturated

membranes, although I have not seen any evidence

presented for such an adaptation yet.

Statement 2 seems less controversial: highly

unsaturated membranes are clearly more easily

oxidizable, both in vitro and in vivo.

Statement 3 (MiFRA) is fairly controversial. I won't

try to defend it here; suffice it to say that if

you don't think mitochondrial generation of

free radicals is a likely

contributor to aging, then you should not worry

about consuming long-chain omega3's! Peer-reviewed

support (and at least one technical book) for various

flavors of the mitochondrial free radical theory are

abundant, however I don't think anyone claims this

theory has been established as fact at this point.

The final statement is the as-yet untested MiRFAA hypothesis.

Given acceptance of statements 1,2, and 3 above it

is of course a plausible (though unverified)

conclusion. Further circumstantial support comes

from the observation that slow-aging animals normally have

relatively lower levels of unsaturation in their

mitochondrial membranes than faster-aging ones.

Diet can affect the level of unsaturation, and does

so in humans; the question is whether this will

increase the aging rate.

Although this hypothesis is plausible, let me point

out several ways in which it might fail:

* Extra unsaturation in membranes might have compensating

effects on oxidation: for example, while the membranes

are clearly more oxidizable, they are also more

permeable. This might reduce generation of free

radicals so that the total oxidation could be less.

* There are some subtle aspects to Aubrey de Grey's

version of MiFRA which imply that simple oxidation

of membranes does not directly cause aging. In

fact, oxidized outer mitochondrial membranes may be

the signal needed by lysosomes to direct them to

kill bad mitochondria. The oxidation must result

in damage to the mitochondrial DNA in order to

trigger aging by Aubrey's method. If, as a side

effect, it triggers faster mitochondrial turnover

then it might be spared from a pro-aging effect.

I believe that other versions of MiFRA are not as

fussy and implicate peroxidized membranes more

directly.

* Unrelated effects of dietary long-chain omega 3s

on eicosanoid production, inflammation reduction,

glucose metabolism or some other unknown mechanism

might make the net effect positive (at least on

mean lifespan) even in the face of some negative

impact on mitochondrial respiration.

* Humans may contain some as-yet-unknown adaptation

which upregulates oxidation-prevention machinery

in the presence of more easily oxidizable

mitochondrial membranes. Evidence for this is

currently lacking, as far as I know.

I'm sure I haven't thought of all the possible

mechanisms by which MiRFAA might fail.

As usual in questions of human aging, some of these

could only be resolved by controlled lifespan

tests which cannot actually be performed. However,

much could be learned (however inconclusive) from

lifespan studies on shorter-lived animals whose

membrane compositions have been artificially

altered. These studies have not yet been done.

Note that CR for humans is one notch better supported

than MiRFAA -- animal lifespan experiments have been done, but

conclusive evidence for efficacy in humans is lacking.

I hope that is a fairly accurate and unemotional

summary of the state of Michael's idea.

Anyone who does not feel this is an accurate presentation

(Michael especially), please post corrections."

[Logic]

Logic

Great point. Do you know where I can buy krill oil by the liter?

Thanks,

Ben

Sadly not Ben.

A quick google:
http://bulkkrilloil....il-reviews.com/
http://krill-oil.wel...l-oil-suppliers
but no idea if these sites are worth a damn.


Thx Tintinet & Turnbuckle

[fighter]

Hi, sorry I was unable to read everything in this thread. What is the recap so far?

Is the consensus positive that C60 may help ALS patients? Will it regenerate lost muscle mass?

[niner]

Is the consensus positive that C60 may help ALS patients? Will it regenerate lost muscle mass?

I don't think anyone really knows for sure. It might have helped Happy Physicist, in that his Forced Vital Capacity increased, when it had been steadily falling. He speculated that it might have been due to increased exercise, so we'll be watching for another report in November.

The body will regenerate lost muscle mass on its own, if the underlying processes that are causing the loss of muscle are stopped. If the process causing the muscle breakdown is mediated by excess free radicals, then C60 would probably help, but there are a lot of conditions that it won't help.

[HappyPhysicist]

Hi, sorry I was unable to read everything in this thread. What is the recap so far?

Is the consensus positive that C60 may help ALS patients? Will it regenerate lost muscle mass?

Basically the idea is that the C60 buckyballs act like the SOD enzyme which is the bodies natural anti-oxidant which in mutated in some people with ALS.

I am still taking C60 but noticed no sudden change, although I have progressed very slowly since starting. However, I started a few other things including swimming.

You can follow all of my DIY treatments on PatientsLikeMe, HappyPhysicist.

[fighter]

Hi, sorry I was unable to read everything in this thread. What is the recap so far?

Is the consensus positive that C60 may help ALS patients? Will it regenerate lost muscle mass?

Basically the idea is that the C60 buckyballs act like the SOD enzyme which is the bodies natural anti-oxidant which in mutated in some people with ALS.

I am still taking C60 but noticed no sudden change, although I have progressed very slowly since starting. However, I started a few other things including swimming.

You can follow all of my DIY treatments on PatientsLikeMe, HappyPhysicist.

Hi, sir thanks very much for the reply. I hope you don't mind me asking this, did you have an EMG test done and had abnormal results? I had an EMG and physical with a neurologist and both were normal according to the doctors. However, I have been having full body muscle wasting since last year including areas that are unusual like inside my mouth, it's all atrophied, my tongue, tonsils, soft palate, gland underneath the tongue, etc. Facial muscles, the whole bit. I also get a burning pain before they atrophy on the palms, soles, and throat.

They stilla re unable to diagnose what I have, until I read a patient from another forum having eerily the same symptoms I'm having. She was Dx'd with CFIDS, Dysautonomia and RSD.

The mouth atrophy cannot be reversed anymore can it? I feel like I am wilting and dying each day :'(

I started taking Dextromethorphan last Sunday along with other supps hoping this would go away. Any advice?

[HappyPhysicist]

fighter,

I wish I had some wisdom to share but I don't. If they don't think you have ALS then be glad, it is probably the worst medical diagnosis one can get.

One of the key givaways for ALS is a combination of muscle fascinations and wasting. If you have one but not the other then you probably do not have ALS.

Thanks,

Ben

[david ellis]

Niner and Zorba,

Thanks so much for that info. I haven't stared 'massive' doses of DHA yet, that is just my current dosage. I will probably start taking about 30 g of fish oil as soon as I get my 500 mL bottle of it.

Thanks,

Ben

I thought Poliquin's assertion that paleo man ate copious amounts of brain tissue was interesting, but imagine cracking open the skull was a lot harder than drinking blood or eating some cooked or raw flesh. Probably more likely game, grassed meats had naturally higher Omega-3's, like this : www.northstarbison.com

You could be OK with 30 grams fish oil/day if you are careful to avoid rancid fish oil. Some folks worry about Omega3's as a cause of malondialdehyde and high levels of lipid peroxide , my personal experience has been to the contrary. In 2009 when I last took the Metametrix ION test, my result for lipid peroxides was very low despite the fact that I was taking 4 grams of omega3 a day. I attribute the test result to my care to avoid rancid fish oil. I use a 16 oz bottle of Nature's answer fish oil(rosemary oil protected). I taste all the fish oil I take, and know for certain it is not rancid. In addition, rosemary is an excellent anti-oxidant, and when I discovered how powerful it is (in the same range as BHT), I added 500 mg of rosemary extract to my supplements.

[zorba990]

Niner and Zorba,

Thanks so much for that info. I haven't stared 'massive' doses of DHA yet, that is just my current dosage. I will probably start taking about 30 g of fish oil as soon as I get my 500 mL bottle of it.

Thanks,

Ben

I thought Poliquin's assertion that paleo man ate copious amounts of brain tissue was interesting, but imagine cracking open the skull was a lot harder than drinking blood or eating some cooked or raw flesh. Probably more likely game, grassed meats had naturally higher Omega-3's, like this : www.northstarbison.com

You could be OK with 30 grams fish oil/day if you are careful to avoid rancid fish oil. Some folks worry about Omega3's as a cause of malondialdehyde and high levels of lipid peroxide , my personal experience has been to the contrary. In 2009 when I last took the Metametrix ION test, my result for lipid peroxides was very low despite the fact that I was taking 4 grams of omega3 a day. I attribute the test result to my care to avoid rancid fish oil. I use a 16 oz bottle of Nature's answer fish oil(rosemary oil protected). I taste all the fish oil I take, and know for certain it is not rancid. In addition, rosemary is an excellent anti-oxidant, and when I discovered how powerful it is (in the same range as BHT), I added 500 mg of rosemary extract to my supplements.

The concern is not really about the fish oil being rancid, but rather that high consumption of it causes the omega-3's to take up residence in the cell and mitochondrial membranes making those membranes and thus the integrity of the cell more likely to be oxidized (and malfunction and/or die presumably). At this point I am tending to agree with that hypothesis and I think that high dose fish oil is not a good idea. It is interesting, though, that Johanna Budwig lived to be 95 years old and followed a high Flax seed oil and cottage cheese diet which she developed for cancer patients.
http://www.budwigcen...g-biography.php

[fighter]

Niner and Zorba,

Thanks so much for that info. I haven't stared 'massive' doses of DHA yet, that is just my current dosage. I will probably start taking about 30 g of fish oil as soon as I get my 500 mL bottle of it.

Thanks,

Ben

I thought Poliquin's assertion that paleo man ate copious amounts of brain tissue was interesting, but imagine cracking open the skull was a lot harder than drinking blood or eating some cooked or raw flesh. Probably more likely game, grassed meats had naturally higher Omega-3's, like this : www.northstarbison.com

You could be OK with 30 grams fish oil/day if you are careful to avoid rancid fish oil. Some folks worry about Omega3's as a cause of malondialdehyde and high levels of lipid peroxide , my personal experience has been to the contrary. In 2009 when I last took the Metametrix ION test, my result for lipid peroxides was very low despite the fact that I was taking 4 grams of omega3 a day. I attribute the test result to my care to avoid rancid fish oil. I use a 16 oz bottle of Nature's answer fish oil(rosemary oil protected). I taste all the fish oil I take, and know for certain it is not rancid. In addition, rosemary is an excellent anti-oxidant, and when I discovered how powerful it is (in the same range as BHT), I added 500 mg of rosemary extract to my supplements.

The concern is not really about the fish oil being rancid, but rather that high consumption of it causes the omega-3's to take up residence in the cell and mitochondrial membranes making those membranes and thus the integrity of the cell more likely to be oxidized (and malfunction and/or die presumably). At this point I am tending to agree with that hypothesis and I think that high dose fish oil is not a good idea. It is interesting, though, that Johanna Budwig lived to be 95 years old and followed a high Flax seed oil and cottage cheese diet which she developed for cancer patients.
http://www.budwigcen...g-biography.php

I took around 5g/day of EPA + DHA not 5g total fish oil volume but 5g of both EPA+DHA, back in 2006, will I be able to reverse any damage that may have caused through taking Vitamin E? I read that it addresses lipid peroxidation.

Edited by fighter, 14 October 2012 - 04:56 AM.