[quote]
(Nate)There's already more than you can handle![/quote]
Well yes, but this is because of all of your general examples which I get to see all the time, and for explaining something general- I have to write here all the theory of egoism!!!
The reason I made this topic is to AVOID doing that because I have too much to say!
I would explain everything long ago in lots of other topics to let you know my point, but there is simply too much and it is all arranged well in my head, but when I try to explain- gee that's aspiring to impossible (reminds me I have to be present at the meeting, it will be easier!).
I wanted you guys to give specific examples so it will have order and I can possibly answer instead of writing it all as I would have done without the need to create this topic!!!
[quote]
(Don)Next time I will try to to read the links provided before I interject .[/quote]
Damn! did you switch sides? [huh]
[quote]
(armrha)I don't think anyone would sacrifice their life just because 'otherwise my lover will try to kill me'.[/quote]
No but simply because thinking it is better for you. You may think that it will be easier to die than living with the fact you could save the one you love and he's dead because you didn't.
That's an outlook of "my mind won't survive such notion" and that's an inside-holding-on for an afterlife, even without really believing in it.
[quote]Someone who is insane enough to do something that hurts them (and doesn't give them any pleasure in helping someone) and helps someone else.[/quote]
Well you kinda answered here- INSANE. that means there is a problem in the rational mind. He still acts according to what he seem to find as best for him, but simply all his system is going wrong without being aware to that, so his choices may often lead wrong and so to make us think he is stupid as well.
If you want me to analyse this case more deeply- be more specific!
[quote]You can't make generalizations about the internal mental states of crazy people. They do not follow reason... though, neither do the internal states of sane people...[/quote]
Umm look above.
[quote]My friend killed himself out of a desire to have no existence; How can that be a motion for survival?[/quote]
Oh thank goodness for the first specific example which includes all the needed details!
Well then your friend gave his spiritual side overtake his rational. He argued that he wanna die because he want to not exist- but how can he decide that? the dead is nothing...
If he'd never been alive, he wouldn't be able to decide such thing! He wasn't aware to that, was he? He didn't include all the information, that's how lots of people get themselves to suicide.
Did he have a hard life so he didn't want to have them? that because inner notion he may survive better in another way of living. He might have "thought" (felt maybe can match here [?] ) that he is not surviving in the current life and wanna not have it! He is not total aware to death=oblivion so it seems. That's reasonable, since no one does because no one experienced it.
[quote]People will still do stuff to help others[/quote]
Yes! because they need to get respect and help from these others! if they wouldn't help, they won't receive help or respect and will have enemies, and enemies=more chances to die faster. Enemies will not give, will only take. That type of life will be very hard, and very hard to survive! In that case the strong will survive, but we- humankind are smarter than that. The wiser- will survive more usually.
He still acts according to what seem to HIM (only) as the best thing to do!
[quote]
(Don)[quote]My goal system is made out of wants[/quote][/quote]
Yes! how's that a contrary?!
[quote][quote]It's like saying that I am "neuron-interested" because my goal system is implemented by a brain or "atom-interested" because my brain is made of atoms. Clearly, since all this wanting and goal-directed behavior takes place inside a brain, it isn't really about Jane getting a lollipop - it's about atoms. These notions of "self-interest" and "altruism" are equally incoherent; whatever you do, it *really* happens "because of" atoms.[/quote][/quote]
Well true, but that means nothing ever matter, since everything is made out of atoms, and atoms are made out of protons, neutrons and electrons which are made of energy and everything is simply energy! That means all is an effect of energy on energy. You can simply say that nothing matters, the energy will divide someday at any rate.
But that would be stupid as a human to do such thing. Why giving it all up just like that? I mean if we are alive already, lets play. I mean we doesn't even know why the heck is our cosmos exists, for the sake of what?! Than lets give the energy turn into a condition that according to what called us (the supply of energy in some amount) to realize everything. That's what as humans we want and meant to do.
Nothing has point, than we must be part of it as we want NOW. I suppose somehow carpe diem does have a rational meaning, but that's not what the energy builds me wants, simply the energy is not as yours for example!
[quote][quote]That's about how much sense I hear in saying that all goals have self-interested *referents*, just because, no matter what I achieve, it happens "because of" my goals. Of course. What else should it happen because of? But it doesn't follow that my goals' referents, the things I'm trying to achieve, are internal events.[/quote][/quote]
Yes, that means- EGOISM!
[quote]
(armrha)That's strange, taking a religious bent, Infernity? Generally I assume the mental body dies at the same time as the physical one does (or at least very shortly after...) There have been very reasonable, logical people with no religious bent that have sacrificed their lives before. For these people, this action cannot be considered acting in their own survival, mental or physical.[/quote]
Well no religion no, no, no!
True that mentality dies with the end of the physical body, but some don't totally understand that- and don't mind to die then.
Pity...
As for as long as it is so the death is generally and ultimate- oh well, you got my point.
[quote]
(John)I don't persist into the future, so I obviously can't be an egoist[/quote]
Oh you are simply not aware...
[quote]My consciousness can feel only the present, so any construct that my memory is trying to persuade me of is irrelevant to my consciousness. Consciousness is ephemeral. When my present consciousness initiates action to keep my body healthy in the future it is actually a different consciousness that I care about. It just so happens to share many of my present qualities and memories.[/quote]
Well I suppose it is true, where does it contradictory my notion?
[quote]I thus have no more reason to care about my own future consciousness than about anybody else's future consciousness.[/quote]
Well that was an egoistic thing to say dear [lol]
You are so because you need the peers respect, and help you the same way. You are interested in their being alive because you need their help for you to survive.
Need their hand, their knowledge, them to have a great typical to humanistic life...
And also, you've said so for them to know
[quote]Is there such a reason at all, am I de facto irrational, or just missing the point entirely?[/quote]
Well good question, we cannot answer it for sure... I suppose there is a reason but since I am asking that question for all my life I suppose I have no answer to what is the reason. Maybe just energy in different funneling against each other doesn't have a reason... who knows.
[quote]Can a point be missed that is not even there?[/quote]
[thumb]
http://www.imminst.o...3&t=5260&hl=&s=Heh well maybe, but that's quite not reasonable...
Gee and that was the longest post of mine ever thus far, wasn't it?
Yours truthfully
~Infernity
Edited by infernity, 25 March 2005 - 02:11 PM.