70 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

And is 90 really high for these individuals? You saw my physical condition a few posts up, I don't know.

In reality, you're just a kid....so you better be at your peak condition...because it doesn't get any better...you only get older. And you're vegan too, aren't you? Check back in 30 years when you're 55 and see how it's working for you. I'm 55 and my numbers are still better....so you must be doing something wrong. And as far as physical condition?.....you look like a kid...what more is there to say?

I am not a vegan. I eat about 4-6 eggs daily. also have been eating fish on and off for a couple of years. Mostly those low in the food chain. What is your HDL number? How can your number be better than 10 points of LDL more than HDL? My understanding is that this is the best ratio one can have since LDL is always higher than HDL? As far as my understand goes, a TC of below 200 with a high HDL is considered 'optimal' (as high as it can go considering the total number actually). Please tell me what you are talking about when you make it seem like my numbers are bad.

So, all 'kids' look like me? All 'kids' have about 9% body fat with no effort, either through diet or exercise? Really? Please show me a study on this. I am eager to see it.

Edited by TheFountain, 26 August 2012 - 08:26 AM.

[algae]

Indians drink milk and eat plenty of milk products, mainly yogurt and cheese. Not even remotely vegan.

Yes, I know, I was only saying they are vegetarian.

There are some other big holes in that article, most notably admitting there are successful vegetarian societies but not vegan societies. This is true, but you can't actually believe dairy is necessary?

You get B12 from meat, not dairy, and dairy is a joke. It causes low level inflammation, the root of all disease, and it's completely unnecessary. People are probably going to go on about how it has protein, and calcium etc. The protein is denatured when it's heated during pasteurization, and you don't need all that calcium anyway, vitamin D and magnesium are more important than getting a ton of calcium. You get huge amounts of calcium from leafy green vegetables (kale, Moringa etc. have many times more calcium than milk) and seeds like black sesame also have many times more calcium than milk. In addition, there are so many other reasons why milk is bad. Commercial milk doesn't have the cofactors of calcium like K, D, and Mag, and so the calcium doesn't absorb, but builds up in your heart instead. Dairy and meat concentrate pesticides by many times, conventional cows are fed mostly GMO high pesticides foods, and it's LOADED with puss as well. The pasteurization destroys everything else remotely healthful in dairy, and it's a legal requirement in this country.

Raw, grass fed dairy is much better, but still causes low level inflammation and is nutritionally unnecessary when consuming a variety of nutritionally dense vegan foods.
http://www.naturalne...c-Raw-Milk.html

I'm sure people will bash this site, certainly much of it is biased and they have an agenda, but some articles are good. This is one of them, summing up all the dangers of dairy:
http://www.naturalhe...dvertising.html

Edited by algae, 26 August 2012 - 02:28 PM.

[Hebbeh]

And is 90 really high for these individuals? You saw my physical condition a few posts up, I don't know.

In reality, you're just a kid....so you better be at your peak condition...because it doesn't get any better...you only get older. And you're vegan too, aren't you? Check back in 30 years when you're 55 and see how it's working for you. I'm 55 and my numbers are still better....so you must be doing something wrong. And as far as physical condition?.....you look like a kid...what more is there to say?

I am not a vegan. I eat about 4-6 eggs daily. also have been eating fish on and off for a couple of years. Mostly those low in the food chain. What is your HDL number? How can your number be better than 10 points of LDL more than HDL? My understanding is that this is the best ratio one can have since LDL is always higher than HDL? As far as my understand goes, a TC of below 200 with a high HDL is considered 'optimal' (as high as it can go considering the total number actually). Please tell me what you are talking about when you make it seem like my numbers are bad.

So, all 'kids' look like me? All 'kids' have about 9% body fat with no effort, either through diet or exercise? Really? Please show me a study on this. I am eager to see it.

Didn't you even look at my numbers? It was a scan of the original I got from the lab...go back and look. I posted them twice both before and after your post. And what is this nonsense about LDL having to be higher than HDL....better go look again.
My numbers:
HDL = 60
LDL = 59
hmmmm.....HDL larger than LDL

My apologies on my misunderstanding of your dietary status....from previous comments I misunderstood that you were vegan.
And 9% body fat isn't unusual for a kid from my experience. You look like a normal kid. Of course, I suppose there are getting to be a lot of couch potato kids these days but when I was your age and wrestled, played football, and ran track, pretty much all my peers were more ripped than you appear. Same with the kids my daughter hangs with. If you are aspiring to be a bodybuilder, you have a long road and is going to require a little more effort. I'm 55 and my body fat ranges 7-8% as measured both on a Tanita and calipers....and it's not skin and bone, being able to deadlift 405. If you are still sub 9% at 55, with some muscle, I would be more impressed.

Edited by Hebbeh, 26 August 2012 - 03:45 PM.

[TheFountain]

And is 90 really high for these individuals? You saw my physical condition a few posts up, I don't know.

In reality, you're just a kid....so you better be at your peak condition...because it doesn't get any better...you only get older. And you're vegan too, aren't you? Check back in 30 years when you're 55 and see how it's working for you. I'm 55 and my numbers are still better....so you must be doing something wrong. And as far as physical condition?.....you look like a kid...what more is there to say?

I am not a vegan. I eat about 4-6 eggs daily. also have been eating fish on and off for a couple of years. Mostly those low in the food chain. What is your HDL number? How can your number be better than 10 points of LDL more than HDL? My understanding is that this is the best ratio one can have since LDL is always higher than HDL? As far as my understand goes, a TC of below 200 with a high HDL is considered 'optimal' (as high as it can go considering the total number actually). Please tell me what you are talking about when you make it seem like my numbers are bad.

So, all 'kids' look like me? All 'kids' have about 9% body fat with no effort, either through diet or exercise? Really? Please show me a study on this. I am eager to see it.

Didn't you even look at my numbers? It was a scan of the original I got from the lab...go back and look. I posted them twice both before and after your post. And what is this nonsense about LDL having to be higher than HDL....better go look again.
My numbers:
HDL = 60
LDL = 59
hmmmm.....HDL larger than LDL

My apologies on my misunderstanding of your dietary status....from previous comments I misunderstood that you were vegan.
And 9% body fat isn't unusual for a kid from my experience. You look like a normal kid. Of course, I suppose there are getting to be a lot of couch potato kids these days but when I was your age and wrestled, played football, and ran track, pretty much all my peers were more ripped than you appear. Same with the kids my daughter hangs with. If you are aspiring to be a bodybuilder, you have a long road and is going to require a little more effort. I'm 55 and my body fat ranges 7-8% as measured both on a Tanita and calipers....and it's not skin and bone, being able to deadlift 405. If you are still sub 9% at 55, with some muscle, I would be more impressed.

I don't know, in my experience most women want lean with abs, not overly muscular from my own personal observations. I am not an aspiring body builder. The most I would want is a physique like Bruce lee, small, lean and tight. I would say I don't have too far too go to reach that. Just have to up my weights. But by no means am I an aspiring body builder. But thank you for answering my other question. Lack of effort does not yield low body fat! You must be active and have a decent diet! So yes, 'kids' who are active and participate in sports and exercise look like me! Thanks.

Edited by TheFountain, 26 August 2012 - 07:53 PM.

[hivemind]

VAP-test does not tell you your LDL-P value.

http://www.lipidcent...ein_Testing.pdf

[hivemind]

Large LDL-particles are as bad as small. If you measure particle counts, then they are even worse:

http://www.nypcvs.org/images/MESA.pdf

[hivemind]

Do not count on you high HDL if you have one. It could not work for you. Get your LDL and total cholesterol to a low level even if you have high HDL.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2903818/

It should be noted, however, that the associations between elevated LDL-C and blood pressure and increased CVD risk reflect causal relationships, whereas such a relation between low HDL-C levels and increased CVD is not undisputed (6, 7).

In conclusion, the epidemiological association between HDL and CVD is strong and is largely responsible for the formulation of the HDL hypothesis, but in itself does not prove a causal relationship.

Altogether, there is no evidence for a role of HDL in the net removal of cholesterol from the body (or vascular wall) and subsequent excretion into feces in mice, whereas evidence in humans is very scarce. To date, there are no assays to measure cholesterol efflux that have proven value in predicting cardiovascular events in humans. This reflects the inherent difficulty of finding a measure for the complex dynamics of cellular cholesterol exchange in atherosclerotic lesions.

The overall RCT hypothesis, especially with respect to the relationship between plasma HDL cholesterol and fecal cholesterol excretion, has been challenged by findings in both mice and humans.

there is considerable evidence for a direct protective role of HDL in inflammatory, oxidative, apoptotic, and thrombotic processes but these studies are primarily performed in in vitro settings. With respect to protection from endothelial dysfunction, some evidence suggests that in vitro findings may apply to in vivo situations as well but studies are small. In each case, a direct link between ex vivo measurements (biomarkers) and cardiovascular risk is yet to be established. Because such evidence could strengthen the concept that HDL is an actor rather than a bystander in atherogenesis, an important challenge for the coming years will be the translation of HDL function assays from bench to bedside. These assays are particularly needed in view of the ongoing testing of novel HDL drugs in clinical trials where early indications of success or failure are absolutely vital.

Edited by hivemind, 02 September 2012 - 11:55 PM.

[npcomplete]

I am not a vegan. I eat about 4-6 eggs daily. also have been eating fish on and off for a couple of years. Mostly those low in the food chain. What is your HDL number? How can your number be better than 10 points of LDL more than HDL? My understanding is that this is the best ratio one can have since LDL is always higher than HDL? As far as my understand goes, a TC of below 200 with a high HDL is considered 'optimal' (as high as it can go considering the total number actually). Please tell me what you are talking about when you make it seem like my numbers are bad.

So, all 'kids' look like me? All 'kids' have about 9% body fat with no effort, either through diet or exercise? Really? Please show me a study on this. I am eager to see it.

Wow, I must be a real statistical outlier:

TC: 157
Trig: 35
HDL: 79
LDL: 71

This was from Labcorp. So I looked further, and they are using the Friedewald (1972) Formula to calculate LDL. Given the low trigs it probably makes more sense to use the Iranian formula:

LDL (Iranian Formula): 40.5

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18426324

No matter how you cut it, HDL > LDL in my case.

[Chupo]

In his book, Dr. Richard Bernstein says his lipids are:

HDL: 118
LDL: 53
Trig: 45

Higher HDL than LDL isn't uncommon on high fat diets.

Edited by Chupoman, 26 December 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[Shepard]

I find it a bit curious that the original cholesterol skeptic scene on the internet morphed into the pro-SFA/low-carb scene and some of these people are now not paying attention to what their cholesterol levels could be indicating (which was one of the original cholesterol skeptic arguments)..

[npcomplete]

In his book, Dr. Richard Bernstein says his lipids are:

HDL: 118
LDL: 53
Trig: 45

Higher HDL than LDL isn't uncommon on high fat diets.

In my own case, I am not even remotely on a high fat or low carb diet (as I put down the biscotti to type), and still have HDL>LDL. I am basically on a Mediterranean food diet (Italian wife, goes with the job). I do avoid wheat though (biscotti doesn't count), but take a moderate approach to just about everything, including supplements, weight training, aerobics, food, etc.

Sometimes "statistical outliers" are just that... (been a statistical outlier my whole life)