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Masturbation & Motivation/Depression - Dopamine Receptor Downregulation.


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#31 Divien

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:42 AM

On my 108th day of NoFap (no porn, masturbation, orgasm). Don't know if I feel any different since I haven't "relapsed" at all. I have a lot more time now though, you could say it acted as a catalyst of change - I've acquired some new habits (wake up every day at 7, sleep at 11; gym 4 times a week, eat healthy) and constantly working to improve myself.

Don't plan on fapping... ever.
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#32 stablemind

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 06:42 AM

Strangely these few days I've been feeling great without the use of my stack (ALCAR, Piracetam) and I've been wondering why. Then I came across yourbrainonporn.com where the author states that after 90 days of no fap, your become sensitized and your mood improves, concentration improves, etc. I then realized that it's been about 90 days since I last fapped, so go figure. I'm not sure if its the main cause, but I've noticed SIGNIFICANT antidepressant effects, less OCD, more confidence. The only other variable change was the weather- it was nice, warm, and sunny, but there were other days when it was sunny and didn't feel this good. I think 90 days of no fap is definitely worth a try.
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#33 nupi

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:02 PM

I have a lot more time now though, you could say it acted as a catalyst of change


Wait what? Just how much time did you spend fapping for this to make a reasonable difference???
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#34 Divien

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:13 PM

Not much on the act of fapping, more so on searching for the dopamine buzz by opening new tabs of videos, etc - novelty. And after that a lack of energy, motivation, apathy.

#35 GetOutOfBox

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 03:43 AM

Strangely these few days I've been feeling great without the use of my stack (ALCAR, Piracetam) and I've been wondering why. Then I came across yourbrainonporn.com where the author states that after 90 days of no fap, your become sensitized and your mood improves, concentration improves, etc. I then realized that it's been about 90 days since I last fapped, so go figure. I'm not sure if its the main cause, but I've noticed SIGNIFICANT antidepressant effects, less OCD, more confidence. The only other variable change was the weather- it was nice, warm, and sunny, but there were other days when it was sunny and didn't feel this good. I think 90 days of no fap is definitely worth a try.


There really isn't any way that masturbation could have a negative effect on motivation (aside from individual psychological reasons), as prolactin released during orgasm prevents excessive stimulation of the dopinamergic system, hence preventing down-regulation. What could be more of an issue is extensive time being spent viewing porn rather than the act of masturbating itself. It's fairly safe that one can be addicted to pornography in the same way someone can be addicted to shopping. Dopamine is released upon finding new and "interesting" videos, which if done excessively (like hours of hoarding pornos :P), could feasibly cause down-regulation.
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#36 magniloquentc0unt

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 12:45 PM

.

Edited by magniloquentc0unt, 26 February 2013 - 12:46 PM.


#37 mrd1

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 07:55 PM

LOL. This is the most pseudo scientific with a clear agenda. We all think porn is bad. It was beat into our heads from all sources. We think it ruins peoples lives and makes you depressed and a pedophile.

However, what can we PROOVE
-Chronic porn is associated with a increase in delta fos b
-Since porn rape has gone DOWN (So much for the decay of society)
-Porn increases dopamine
-Orgasm causes a release of prolactin
-Orgasms whether from sex or masturbation reduce your risk of prostate cancer
-Feeling shame or anxiety about being caught can really make you feel bad! But, that is cultural.
-Woman showed a pornographic film reported greater wellbeing after
-Humans are sexual beings and in a world of excess sex is arguably the only need left unsatisfied (Yes, I use the term need because it is will food water and sleep in the hypothalamus) You may not need it to not die but, id argue it is probable that sex is needed for a healthy mental state given
1) While not scientific, freuds interesting emphasis on sex and aggression
2) without it we'd go extinct
3) well being being tied to sexual expression
- if that ted video is correct and "it is impossible to find a male who is not watching it" than therefore, the serious addiction rate is very low. And rather than reviewing this binge and crave as a addiction I propose it is a regulatory signal from the hypothalamus just like how you it get hungry and then crave food. That doesn't mean stop eating then whip yourself every time you fail. Listen to your body. Express and validate what you feel. Let your body be your compass not society's opinion.
-not all increases of dopamine cause downregulation example laughter. It depends on the strength of the release and other factors.
-Unlike junk food porn has zero calories and therefore, does not make it equal to porn because porn won't lead to diabetes, heart disease, weight gain, and proven erectile problems and testosterone issues. So, even if porn does cause so called erectile problems and testosterone issues anyone demonizing it while eating a burger and soda is clearly talking about how he feels rather than the evidence of harm reduction to the individual.
-porn can significantly decrease cortisol levels for many hours after viewing it.
-perhaps this so called hypersexuality and escalation of aggressive sexual behaviors is just the result of going from a culturally repressed sexuality to their more natural state and exploring more ways of being sexual
-Even if porn did cause so called "escalation of aggressive sexual behaviors" Assuming they must be talking about bdsm since porn access is associated a decrease in actual rape. Who cares? BDSM while maybe upsetting to my Grandma, it is generally associated with higher well being or no difference (NOTE that was a survey not a experiment therefore it does not prove bdsm causes a increase in wellbeing but that it probably doesn't harm it
-Things like "excessive tabs open", "isolation", "voyerism" Lol what? That sounds like me on youtube. If thats the danger of a easy consistent refreshing burst of dopamine without the weight gain of junk food or many of the risks of drugs than Ill take that gladly!
-Not all people can have sex with real people every time they have the sexual urge to. Besides, this fails to take into account the REAL dangers of sex like condoms breaking, unprotected sex, stds, pregnancy,..

In short, I feel like porn is bad but objectively I can not provide a substantial argument against it without the misapplication of basic neuroscience and a moral subjective spin on it. So, while I can't say either way, at this time it is improbable to claim that porn is significantly dangerous to an individual but, may interfere with cultural and religious beliefs causing distress or, alternatively, causing a slight increase in wellbeing and contentedness by allowing a mechanism to express their sexual drives rather than repressing them.

Edited by mrd1, 19 September 2013 - 08:00 PM.

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#38 Babychris

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:42 PM

you should not forget that maybe for people who has "normal activitys" porn could be great, but the younger, who grows in a "porn world" seing their first naked women on a screen and maybe who have never seen any women in real life, porn may be the key. It's not something you can neglect so easily.
I hope I'll have the faith to try this 90 day cure, it will be hard though (haha)

#39 mrd1

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 03:48 AM

Good Luck! I prefer empirical proof versus faith but I suppose it is equally likely you could be either correct or wrong. It be a shame if you suffer for 90 days for no reason! Although, what would be even harder is if than that causes everyone to have to suffer forever because it works haha. Ooo god not my masterbation! What next my seats. Ooo god they have research for that. NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
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#40 machete234

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:33 PM

Its insanity to stop fapping, if monkeys do it then you can do it too.
Do you think these monkeys sit around all day after fapping going "Im so depressed cant get woman or job....better surf the internet more"
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#41 Climactic

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:56 PM

Its insanity to stop fapping, if monkeys do it then you can do it too.
Do you think these monkeys sit around all day after fapping going "Im so depressed cant get woman or job....better surf the internet more"


From an evolutionary pov, it seems wholly unnatural for humans to be fapping to Internet porn. Having said that, among humans, the closest natural approximation to it seems to be voyeurism, but fapping to it seems historically limited.

The fapping versus not-fapping debate misses the relevant point of limiting the discussion to fapping to porn as this is the predominant situation. I therefore first ask - does fapping to porn have different psychological or neurological ramifications than fapping without it?

Edited by Climactic, 26 September 2013 - 08:00 PM.


#42 1kgcoffee

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:43 AM

It might be just a subset of the population that is affected by porn/masturbation, but I've tested this over and again and for me there is definitely something going on. Purely anecdotal but the easiest way to explain is with driving. After abstaining for a week or two I go from being spacey and skittish to having relative confidence and control of a nascar driver. How would you explain it in terms of the neurotransmitters sloshing around? Its like a feeling of quiet radiance.

The skeptics will say that this is placebo, or that I'm delusional to feel such a powerful effect.

Porn is to the brain as sugary processed foods are to the gut. They are engineered to overstimulate and not to satiate until well after the point of healthy indulgence.
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#43 MercuryAX

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:57 AM

I don't think that your dopamine systems are HORRIBLY messed up by masturbating every once in a while. It's not going to be a huge deal unless you're seriously overdoing it. However, in men, "fapping" could potentially result in lower levels of testosterone.

From an evolutionary perspective, it could be explained like this:

A man is driven by nature to procreate, and therefore have sex. If they go without this sexual release for long enough, their body might increase testosterone levels (which helps muscle tone, motivation, masculine physical features) to help them succeed in getting a mate. Upon release, the testosterone levels may drop due to the prolactin spike or simply a lack of "need" for using extra body resources. Also, it would seem reasonable that after too long of a period with no release, the testosterone levels would eventually drop because it does demand more resources, and they're not being used for anything in regards to procreating.

So basically, my theory is that men should have an orgasm every couple days to keep testosterone levels balanced. I heard somewhere that it's about 7 days for testosterone to build up to a "peak" level, after which it will start dropping. I'm going to test this theory with an excel spreadsheet over the next couple months, using a short daily questionnaire.

#44 machete234

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:28 PM

Porn is to the brain as sugary processed foods are to the gut. They are engineered to overstimulate and not to satiate until well after the point of healthy indulgence.

And therefore both these things are awesome once in a while.
I couldnt find the motivation to look at porn every day because it gets very boring and I guess thats the desensitation. (When something doesnt work anymore the intelligent thing would be to stop)

Did we talk about sulbutiamine in this thread already because I think it resets the right receptors, so that even boring stimuli become interesting again. (Even random boners occur more frequently)

Also, it would seem reasonable that after too long of a period with no release, the testosterone levels would eventually drop because it does demand more resources, and they're not being used for anything in regards to procreating.

That happens to be what no fappers report: After x days there is no more sex drive.
Where they have their 90 days number from is also a mystery to me because what special thing is supposed to happen at that time?

Edited by machete234, 27 September 2013 - 12:37 PM.


#45 nupi

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:56 PM

Also, it would seem reasonable that after too long of a period with no release, the testosterone levels would eventually drop because it does demand more resources, and they're not being used for anything in regards to procreating.

That happens to be what no fappers report: After x days there is no more sex drive.
Where they have their 90 days number from is also a mystery to me because what special thing is supposed to happen at that time?


My doctor seems to believe in use it or lose it, not sure I fully agree and if anything, the 90days are probably more like an average, no hard and fast line

#46 MercuryAX

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:35 PM

How sensitive would people be if I decided to post an excel spreadsheet, like I mentioned above. It'd report how many times a day I well....released, how many days since I have, and questions from a self-administered survey generalizing mood factors. This information is recorded each day.

The objective is to look for trends based on the notion of this topic, and trying to eliminate some bias by doing it over a long period of time, perhaps even a year.

So far, I'm rating energy levels, confidence, and "manliness" for the day, giving a value of low, medium, or high. Any suggestions on how to improve this? No this is not a troll post.

Edited by MercuryAX, 03 October 2013 - 08:38 PM.


#47 machete234

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:49 PM

You can do whatever you want but Id probably not fill out a spreadsheet how often I masturbated, sorry.

Question: How do you make placebo controls in the case of no fapping its just not possible.
How manly somebody feels is very subjective, mood also you could feel better because you dont think youre a loser because you dont do it anymore. I mean there is some stigma with male masturbation.
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#48 MercuryAX

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:04 AM

You can do whatever you want but Id probably not fill out a spreadsheet how often I masturbated, sorry.


HAHA that's a great response. I know it's extremely taboo or whatever, but this is for the purpose of determining the legitimacy of the concept we're talking about.

#49 nupi

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 07:29 AM

You can do whatever you want but Id probably not fill out a spreadsheet how often I masturbated, sorry.


Agreed. Not even shrinks ever asked me for any indication of that.

#50 Perception-Is-Reality

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:04 PM

How sensitive would people be if I decided to post an excel spreadsheet, like I mentioned above. It'd report how many times a day I well....released, how many days since I have, and questions from a self-administered survey generalizing mood factors. This information is recorded each day.

The objective is to look for trends based on the notion of this topic, and trying to eliminate some bias by doing it over a long period of time, perhaps even a year.

So far, I'm rating energy levels, confidence, and "manliness" for the day, giving a value of low, medium, or high. Any suggestions on how to improve this? No this is not a troll post.



I'll fill out a spreadsheet, you guys above me are pathetic and weak. Your not giving out your name or even writing a detailed emotional response its just a spreadsheet.

#51 machete234

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:25 PM

Its not because its taboo I wouldnt fill out a check list how often I went to the toilet either.

Sulbutiamine once in a while still helps to keep me more horny, maybe Im just repairing this system slowly I dont know.
I used to do some mild stimulant abuse and also stimulants+ porn (probably a killer combo for frying your dopamine receptors, if the theory of donwregulation and porn is true).

So if somebody would do no fap sulb could get the results quicker.

Here is at least an abstract how it helps for "psychogenic ED"
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15776829

Edited by machete234, 24 October 2013 - 09:41 PM.

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#52 Perception-Is-Reality

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:45 PM

Based on this thread, I think the optimal mastubaiting lifestyle would be to masturbate without porn exactly once a week, and with porn never.

#53 MercuryAX

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 06:31 AM

How sensitive would people be if I decided to post an excel spreadsheet, like I mentioned above. It'd report how many times a day I well....released, how many days since I have, and questions from a self-administered survey generalizing mood factors. This information is recorded each day.

The objective is to look for trends based on the notion of this topic, and trying to eliminate some bias by doing it over a long period of time, perhaps even a year.

So far, I'm rating energy levels, confidence, and "manliness" for the day, giving a value of low, medium, or high. Any suggestions on how to improve this? No this is not a troll post.



I'll fill out a spreadsheet, you guys above me are pathetic and weak. Your not giving out your name or even writing a detailed emotional response its just a spreadsheet.


I don't have mine on me, but I determined so far that once every 5 days seems optimal.

#54 Perception-Is-Reality

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 03:27 PM

Because after 5 days you were overly distracted by sexual thoughts?

#55 Eruditus

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 04:24 PM

I just go once every 8 days to let my hormonal cycle build up on day 7 so I can do some intense workouts and have maximum gains while the testosterone is up. Also I find it's good for discipline building to say no to yourself for something pleasurable that is so easily available. Over-masturbating is really just a lazy way of getting your sexual pleasure; and what is also proven is that men who masturbate on a frequent basis are less likely to actually go out and get girlfriends (read this somewhere but can't remember where so sorry but no evidence is available at this time).

Good idea on the masturbating without porn part. sounds hella boring but I suppose I should give it a go if I want to completely distance myself from my old unhealthy and obsessive behavioral tendencies =/

Here is an interesting read on the psychological cesspit that is over-masturbation and porn addiction http://www.psycholog...nce-perspective

Edited by Eruditus, 26 October 2013 - 04:29 PM.


#56 MercuryAX

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 12:09 AM

Because after 5 days you were overly distracted by sexual thoughts?


No, I can usually resist sexual thoughts. It's more that my hormones get wacky around day 5. I start getting emotional and hyperactive.

#57 Ben

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 03:01 AM

LOL. This is the most pseudo scientific with a clear agenda. We all think porn is bad. It was beat into our heads from all sources. We think it ruins peoples lives and makes you depressed and a pedophile.

However, what can we PROOVE
-Chronic porn is associated with a increase in delta fos b
-Since porn rape has gone DOWN (So much for the decay of society)
-Porn increases dopamine
-Orgasm causes a release of prolactin
-Orgasms whether from sex or masturbation reduce your risk of prostate cancer
-Feeling shame or anxiety about being caught can really make you feel bad! But, that is cultural.



You're pro porn on every single thread. Have you even tried abstaining from it / masturbation?

Are you in the industry or something? Many people have reported increased motivation and a better ability at achieving their goals after taking the challenge.
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#58 drstrangeglove

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 12:08 PM

I can attest to greatly increased energy and motivation after just a week of not masturbating. I think that the issue is not just the ejaculation but rather the extended time spent pleasuring yourself given the super-stimulus of porn. People don't have sex for many hours everyday so you should not masturbate that way either. 



#59 random9876

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 08:32 PM

Very interesting replies to this topic. By the way, I have no problem with porn morally, to those that assumed I have some sort of moral agenda. If porn truly has no ill effects on the human brain, then I'm all for it. However, I don't think enough studies have been performed to come to this conclusion so quickly. Anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that abstaining from masturbation and porn has had beneficial effects. 

 

I tend to masturbate daily, but I've noticed that I spend about half an hour to 1 hour plus finding porn videos and content which excite me. During this time, there's no prolactin surge to combat the surge of dopamine that enters my brain. When I climax, there usually is a period where I feel tired and lethargic, which I assume is the rush of prolactin that accompanies orgasm. 

 

I wonder if there would be negative effects if prolactin stayed in the brain for too long and suppresses the effects of dopamine. 

 

On a side note, it's interesting that the thread has received more than 100K views despite very few responses. 



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#60 Keizo

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 12:23 PM

Personally I have always found myself to get increased motivation approximately 5 days after masturbation.

Right now I am about 10 days of "no fap". I feel great! (even if I already felt pretty decent) 

Specifically my social anxiety is decreased, I care less about making myself look like an idiot, especially around women.

Only problem is I am more distracted by sexual thoughts...

 

(The only change I have done to regimen is 2 days ago I added some L. Reuteri.)

 

Anyway, I won't touch porn any more. It seems a bit disturbing that you can forget that 10 hours has passed, that you were really tired, meanwhile all you've done is collected porn.  I also suspect it made me be rather picky regarding women.


Edited by Keizo, 05 March 2015 - 12:24 PM.





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