Equipment: mixing, centrifuging and filtering
niner 14 Nov 2012
I am just wanting to get rid of the ighly visible grit at the bottom. Do you guys think I could get away with a regular coffeee filter? Will it take forever to come through the filter?
If the grit is sitting at the bottom, you can probably pour off most of the clean oil into another container without disturbing the grit, if you're careful. Then go ahead and pour the rest into a coffee filter. It will probably be slow (maybe take a day?), but I'd expect it to work pretty well. Another possibility would be to try to crush the grains and let them react longer. Large particles of c60 take forever to react without constant agitation.
Freebytes 15 Nov 2012
The vial that was 100mg/20ml was kept in my pocket for about two days, but it has now been sitting in a dark box for about 5 days. I am now carrying around the 30mg/30ml vial. Anyway, the main reason I switched was because I was concerned about it taking FOREVER for any changes to appear to take place so I thought I would start with a lower concentration first. However, an interesting observation: The vial that I carried that was high concentration is crimson red. Whereas, the other three high concentration vials that I carried around show almost no change from their original color. Therefore, any kind of disturbance of the solution is certainly beneficial, and you should be sure to stir the contents of the vial whenever possible.
mpe 21 Nov 2012
To avoid light and to keep 'stirring' my solution, I have been carrying the solution in my pocket. I have a habit of 'jittering my leg' so I suspect this will have a positive impact. I have made four vials of C60oo with a concentration of 100mg in 20ml which is 5mg/ml. I was going to use this as a skin treatment to observe the results. I put one vial in my pocket for a couple days, but I also wanted to use an oral dosage so I made a new vial that was 30mg/30ml (1mg/ml).
The vial that was 100mg/20ml was kept in my pocket for about two days, but it has now been sitting in a dark box for about 5 days. I am now carrying around the 30mg/30ml vial. Anyway, the main reason I switched was because I was concerned about it taking FOREVER for any changes to appear to take place so I thought I would start with a lower concentration first. However, an interesting observation: The vial that I carried that was high concentration is crimson red. Whereas, the other three high concentration vials that I carried around show almost no change from their original color. Therefore, any kind of disturbance of the solution is certainly beneficial, and you should be sure to stir the contents of the vial whenever possible.
I tried carrying 100 ml of my mixture around for a couple of days as well, it became a darker brown but not red.
Today I placed 3 100ml bottles of C60oo into a saucepan of water and set the temperature on the stove to its lowest level. The water became hot but not boiling and I left it on for 6 hours then allowed it to cool to room temperature before checking again.
The colour has finally changed from dirty brown to whiskey.
I gave it a taste test, the mixture has a much stronger and sharper taste than Carbon's C60, which by comparison is rather woody ( not a criticism ).
I think I'll treat the rest of my mixture the same way, freeze one bottle and keep the rest in the fridge until its needed.
Freebytes 21 Nov 2012
somecallmetim 21 Nov 2012
You mentioned that you were going to try a vial of C60oo on your skin; do you have a certain skin condition that you are going to apply the C60oo on? If so, were you planning on doing the topical doses first, or are you going to do both topical and oral dosing at the same time? It would be interesting if you did just the topical first, to see if it has any benefit on its own. I plan on trying this myself when my batch is finally ready.
niner 22 Nov 2012
To avoid light and to keep 'stirring' my solution, I have been carrying the solution in my pocket. I have a habit of 'jittering my leg' so I suspect this will have a positive impact. I have made four vials of C60oo with a concentration of 100mg in 20ml which is 5mg/ml. I was going to use this as a skin treatment to observe the results. I put one vial in my pocket for a couple days, but I also wanted to use an oral dosage so I made a new vial that was 30mg/30ml (1mg/ml).
The vial that was 100mg/20ml was kept in my pocket for about two days, but it has now been sitting in a dark box for about 5 days. I am now carrying around the 30mg/30ml vial. Anyway, the main reason I switched was because I was concerned about it taking FOREVER for any changes to appear to take place so I thought I would start with a lower concentration first. However, an interesting observation: The vial that I carried that was high concentration is crimson red. Whereas, the other three high concentration vials that I carried around show almost no change from their original color. Therefore, any kind of disturbance of the solution is certainly beneficial, and you should be sure to stir the contents of the vial whenever possible.
I tried carrying 100 ml of my mixture around for a couple of days as well, it became a darker brown but not red.
Today I placed 3 100ml bottles of C60oo into a saucepan of water and set the temperature on the stove to its lowest level. The water became hot but not boiling and I left it on for 6 hours then allowed it to cool to room temperature before checking again.
The colour has finally changed from dirty brown to whiskey.
I gave it a taste test, the mixture has a much stronger and sharper taste than Carbon's C60, which by comparison is rather woody ( not a criticism ).
I think I'll treat the rest of my mixture the same way, freeze one bottle and keep the rest in the fridge until its needed.
These are some of the classic ways to increase reaction rates- heating and agitation. Thanks for trying heat, mpe- I think you're the first person to try it. I guess carrying a vial in your pocket also provides a little heat. The rate determining step of this reaction seems to be the dissolution of the c60 crystal. The c60 crystal is not very strong (imagine a "crystal" made of marbles, with just the barest of attractive forces between them), so it's very easy to grind or crush. If you crush it before you mix it with the olive oil, the reaction rate is radically increased.
Anthony_Loera 22 Nov 2012
Freebytes 24 Nov 2012
Freebytes,
You mentioned that you were going to try a vial of C60oo on your skin; do you have a certain skin condition that you are going to apply the C60oo on? If so, were you planning on doing the topical doses first, or are you going to do both topical and oral dosing at the same time? It would be interesting if you did just the topical first, to see if it has any benefit on its own. I plan on trying this myself when my batch is finally ready.
Somecallmetim, I was going to do oral first and then topical, but if you guys think it would be in the best interest of people here to try it on my skin, I will do that. Last year, the first wrinkles appeared on my forehead. I am 33 years old and will be 34 in January. I was planning to use the solution on my skin to see if it had any impact on the wrinkles and possibly hair growth. I do not have much of a receeding hairline, but my hair is less full than I would like it to be so I considered trying both of these. However, it is taking a really long time because I am using a very high concentration. (My solution might be oversaturated so I will likely be adding more olive oil to make it slightly less potent.) I am going to wait until I have had these mixed for a month, though, before I try filtering it. I can then try to weigh the filtered amount to see how much remained within the solution.
Would coffee filters be good for filtering?
stephen_b 26 Nov 2012
Freebytes 26 Nov 2012
However, at http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21137794 it was found that "Highly purified and organic solvent-free fullerene-C60 was dissolved, at nearly saturated concentration of 278 ppm, in squalane prepared from olive oil, which is designated as LipoFullerene (LF-SQ) and was examined for usage as a cosmetic ingredient with antioxidant ability." Which means that it could be higher than 278 ppm, but this is in pure squalane.
Turnbuckle offered the recommendation to use a green laser pointer to find whether there are remaining particles of C60 within the C60oo solution. This apparently works because the C60 will appear black after absorbing the green light. However, this is also likely because an absence of green light should produce a pink or purple color, and a fully saturated substance should appear this pink or purple color. Interestingly, many olive oils seem to reflect green light. This means that if you have too much olive oil, it should not be as purple, but if you are very saturated, it should appear purple as far as I understand. It will go from the yellowish/greenish to brown to red to purple. I have not yet proceeded past a crimson red color with my pocket shaken C60oo. However, there are still numerous visible grains of C60.
Oh, and Somecallmetim, I was going to also see if I noticed any changes in any 'moles' I have on my body. I have taken a picture of all of them in preparation of this. I was going to take pictures again afterwards. All such skin lesions are small, though. I considered purchasing calipers to measure it, but if it is not sufficient to see through images, then the changes are likely not significant enough to document. My initial objective was to examine the changes in skin appearance due to oral consumption of C60oo so I was going to take pictures of all flaws of my skin, including the wrinkles.
Edited by Freebytes, 26 November 2012 - 09:38 PM.
Freebytes 26 Nov 2012
somecallmetim 26 Nov 2012
Oh, and Somecallmetim, I was going to also see if I noticed any changes in any 'moles' I have on my body. I have taken a picture of all of them in preparation of this. I was going to take pictures again afterwards. All such skin lesions are small, though. I considered purchasing calipers to measure it, but if it is not sufficient to see through images, then the changes are likely not significant enough to document. My initial objective was to examine the changes in skin appearance due to oral consumption of C60oo so I was going to take pictures of all flaws of my skin, including the wrinkles.
Sounds good. It will be interesting to see what kind of results you get.
niner 27 Nov 2012
Stephen_b, I was actually wondering that myself. This article from 1993 does seem interesting, though: http://www.nature.co...html According to this, if olive oil fits the same criteria, if you were to measure the temperature (starting at room temperature), the temperature of the solution should decrease as the C60 dissolves. However, I am not sure if this change is actually noticeable enough to even result in a temperature change of 1 degree in such small amounts. "We observe a solubility maximum near room temperature (around 280 K) for all three solvents." I am not sure if this is applicable to olive oil itself, but it seems likely. This means that heating it up should not have as much of an impact as dissolving other substances (e.g. heating water to dissolve sugar.)
Yes, that weird behavior, where solubility goes down as temperature goes up, has been seen for a variety of solvents. I saw an explanation for it somewhere, but I've forgotten exactly what it was. It made sense at the time..
However, when c60 is combined with vegetable oils, the main effect is not dissolution but rather a chemical reaction between the c60 and the oil. The reaction rate will be enhanced exponentially with increasing temperature, so the c60 goes in much faster if heated.
It's not entirely clear to me what the limit of solubility of the reacted product is. Sarah Vaughter claims that her product is 0.9mg/ml, while Carbon says his is 0.8mg/ml. I think that's what Baati found, too. It's a pretty good bet that it's somewhere around .8 or .9mg/ml, though I'm not sure how hard anyone has tried to get a saturated solution.
However, at http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21137794 it was found that "Highly purified and organic solvent-free fullerene-C60 was dissolved, at nearly saturated concentration of 278 ppm, in squalane prepared from olive oil, which is designated as LipoFullerene (LF-SQ) and was examined for usage as a cosmetic ingredient with antioxidant ability." Which means that it could be higher than 278 ppm, but this is in pure squalane.
This is simple solution rather than reaction. If 278ppm is nearly saturated, then it isn't going to go much higher, since saturation is, by definition, the most solute that the solution can hold. 1ppm = 1 mcg/gm = 1mg/kg. 1ml olive oil ~= 0.92g.
Edited by niner, 27 November 2012 - 02:29 AM.
Freebytes 28 Nov 2012
My 100mg/20ml mixtures are far from being complete, and I will likely need to add more olive oil to even have it dissolve fully.
Fred_CALICO 02 Dec 2012
I mixed 250mg of C60 (99.9% purity) in 500 ml of olive oil.
Put the mixture in a dark piece which is locate the "hot water supply".
I shake twice a day during the first 5 days.
Since yesterday, I put the bottle on the "washing machine" when it goes into spin.
The color change works well for two days.
This is observed after 5 washings.
The "aggregates" of C60, as large pieces of KMnO4 (potassium permanganate) become much thinner.
I think continuing with this method.
I could use the magnetic stirrer of the lab, but the idea here is to develop methods usable by all people.
Freebytes 09 Dec 2012
I will let everyone see all of the details a month from now when I am done.
hav 12 Jan 2013
Howard
rashlan 13 Jan 2013
Hi, rashlan. Not sure what rpm I get, but when I mix a liter oil I set my Benchmark stirrer to around 7.5 ... the knob has markings going from 1 to a max of 9. I like to see a little bit of a funnel but found that if I spin it too fast, the capsule has a tendency after a while to start bouncing around in the beaker instead of spinning. When you first put it in, the grains of c60 are pretty clearly visible in the oil. As long as you see good movement and circulation of the grains, I think you're fine. If you mix smaller amounts of oil, spinning is allot easier. I think 1 liter is probably the upper limit.
Howard
Thanks,
Does anyone know what the draw backs would be of getting the C60 purified 99.9%? The reason I ask is that its half the price of the Ultra pure, vacuum dried C60.
Krell 15 Jan 2013
I have been using a green laser pointer (I think I stole this idea from Turnbuckle)
and there are still some sparkles after stirring 1L oo with 0.8mg 99.5% C60 for a month.
Turnbuckle 15 Jan 2013
I usually grind, magnetically stir for three days, and filter. The laser detects nothing in the filtrate.How do folks determine when the C60 is fully dissolved?
I have been using a green laser pointer (I think I stole this idea from Turnbuckle)
and there are still some sparkles after stirring 1L oo with 0.8mg 99.5% C60 for a month.
rashlan 24 Jan 2013
Thanks Ash
stephen_b 24 Jan 2013
rashlan 24 Jan 2013
niner 25 Jan 2013
I know, unfortunately I'm stuck with three litters of olive oil/c60 pre mixed . I was hoping that it would suffice as a stop gap until I can start a new batch, and start using the mortar and pestle technique.
It would probably be better than nothing. If you could figure out a way to exclude oxygen, it might work great. That might range from an argon bath to something as simple as filling the blender all the way to the top with the olive oil mix. I have 750ml of olive oil with some very large c60 particles sitting in it, from back in the day before I discovered the miracle of the mortar and pestle. The stuff has been sitting around for about three months. I should go take a look at it and see if it ever dissolved. The second batch I made, in which I ground the C60, will probably last me for a couple years at the rate I'm using it. Maybe by then the first batch will be ready...
rashlan 25 Jan 2013
niner 25 Jan 2013
Just thought I'd update. Since using the blender, the transition in colour seems to have been kicked into overdrive. I initially tried heating the oil but that seemed to have little effect.
Wow, that was fast. It's consistent with what I saw with the mortar and pestle, where the process went from a timescale of "approximately never" to being finished in a couple days. I'll have to try that with my stalled batch. Thanks for the idea!
ClarkSims 25 Jan 2013
Just thought I'd update. Since using the blender, the transition in colour seems to have been kicked into overdrive. I initially tried heating the oil but that seemed to have little effect.
When you blend the olive oil, how long do you leave on the blender?
Did you figure out a way to exclude oxygen?
I seem to remember that as a kid, my mom left a blender on for too long, and it overheated, and had to be replaced.
rashlan 25 Jan 2013
free10 26 Jan 2013
This by the way is my first post but I have been reading the post for a few months. I think the blender for those who did not crush the C60 first before adding it to the oil is a great idea. I started my first batch around Jan 10 2013 and didn't crush first. Its changing but slowly with a few shakes every day.