117 replies to this topic

[Andrey_81]

I'm suffering from situational panic attacks (meetings and public speech). Tried all kinds of stuff from Bromazepam, Propranolol, Valerian, Ashwagandha and Rhodiola. The only benefit I have is from Ashwagandha (1000 mg of extract before important meeting). It makes me more confident, not sure why. Propranolol is also OK, but I still feel afraid and panicked.

I would like to try Phenibut after I read that it can help with panic disorder, anxiety and agoraphobia. I'm not planing to take it every day, but only before this situations that triggers my panic (meetings, presentations, public speech). I function completely normal in my everyday life, so this will be my rescue remedy at my work. Considering that meeting and presentations are planed, this could be really helpful.

Do you have any experience? Should I go with it? Will it work if taken only once a week or once a month? How much time it takes to start working?

I'm thinking, if taken once a week or once a month there is no chance to build tolerance. What do you think?

Thank you!

Edited by Andrey_81, 27 September 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[Raza]

I've no personal experience with social panic attacks, but a fair amount with phenibut both personally and in dispensing it to people with high general/social anxiety, and it's definitely something you could try.

Also note that it's a GABA-B agonist, and that out of what you've tried, the only thing that works is also a (less potent) one of those. Of course, Ashwagandha does a lot more than that, so there's no guarrantee that that is why it helps... it's just a lead, something worth trying.

Fill up some 000 caps, they'll fit about 900mg stuffed and that's about the minimum dose for a clearly noticable effect - and don't be afraid to try two if one turns out to be insufficient. Swallow with lots of water and give it 20 minutes to work on a not-too-full stomach. And maybe have some anti stomach acid tablets nearby, the stuff's pretty acidic... this is a comfort matter though, not medically important.

Also mind that phenibut is addictive and rapidly downregulates GABA-B receptors. Once a week is fine, and a little more ok in an emergency, but don't loosen up on that too much.

Edited by Raza, 28 September 2012 - 10:35 AM.

[Andrey_81]

Also mind that phenibut is addictive and rapidly downregulates GABA-B receptors. Once a week is fine, and a little more ok in an emergency, but don't loosen up on that too much.

Thank you for your comment. What does it mean 'rapidly downregulates GABA-B receptors'? How do you feel after you take phenibut? Does it kill emotions?

Thanks again

[Raza]

Receptor downregulation happens with almost any drug that increases stimulation at one or more receptor sites. Your brain adjusts by reducing the amount of receptors you have of the type that is stimulated, reducing your sensitivity to both that drug and the natural neurotransmitter it imitates. This causes you to build tolerance, and possibly experience withdrawals if you take something (too) regularly. It's one of the mechanisms of addiction.

Phenibut is one of the more addictive substances out there, but even for one of those, the effects of receptor downregulation are negligible with occasional use. Your receptors slowly reset to their default state while you're not under influence, so as long as you give them time to recover between uses, using something like phenibut is fine. Just avoid using it for several days consecutively - from what you were planning, you still have plenty of leeway.

While under the influence of phenibut, you mostly just feel less anxious. You're more spontaneous, thinking less before acting/speaking, and have an easier time letting thoughts go if you want to. Emotions other than anxiety are mostly unaffected, except for those that usually compete with anxiety, which are enhanced by comparison.

Afterwards you shouldn't feel any different from before, if you've only had one or two doses.

Edited by Raza, 28 September 2012 - 03:50 PM.

[ironfistx]

I've used Phenibut a few times in the past. Unlike many people, I got a significant effect from a small dosage. The kind I bought came in 500 mg caps, and I began with 250 mg (I emptied out half of the capsule).

I never took more than 500 mg, and I wouldn't want to. I see reports of people taking 1+ grams and that just sounds so crazy to me. However, most of those people seem to be using powder, so maybe it's a dosing issue?

Anyway, I'm naturally pretty introverted. The few times I took Phenibut I wanted to talk to people. At work, I was chatting up everyone. When I went out I was in a good mood and enjoyed talking to people. It wasn't so much confidence as it was just me feeling good and wanting to experience good feelings with others. The effects for me seemed to take about 4 hours to kick in, then they lasted for at least 12 hours, and there was a bit of an afterglow the following day.

I stopped taking it because of what I read about addiction and tolerance. I never used it more than twice a month (separated by two weeks) and probably only used it 5 or 6 times total. Even with that much time between usage, subsequent times I did it were never as powerful as the first one.

There are some accounts out there of it really messing people up. Tolerance builds very quickly and withdrawal can be a mess. That's something that I don't even want to mess with.

If you are going to try it, begin with a much lower dose than you think you need. Because it takes so long to kick in, some people end up taking too much. They're like "it's been a few hours and I don't feel it, better take more!"

Also as I'm sure you know, it potentiates alcochol.

Receptor downregulation happens with almost any drug that increases stimulation at one or more receptor sites. Your brain adjusts by reducing the amount of receptors you have of the type that is stimulated, reducing your sensitivity to both that drug and the natural neurotransmitter it imitates.

I've often wondered if the opposite could be done.

Take a drug that slowly limits the amount of "good feelings" your brain can produce. Your brain should adapt by slowly releasing more of the good feeling chemicals in order to maintain balance. Discontinue drug. Natural abundance of good feelings!

Right?

Kind of like the opposite of hard drugs that you take that make you feel good for a while and then feel like crap for a long time.

Feel a little worse for a short time and then feel awesome for a long time!

Edited by ironfistx, 28 September 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Raza]

I've often wondered if the opposite could be done.

Take a drug that slowly limits the amount of "good feelings" your brain can produce. Your brain should adapt by slowly releasing more of the good feeling chemicals in order to maintain balance. Discontinue drug. Natural abundance of good feelings!

Right?

Kind of like the opposite of hard drugs that you take that make you feel good for a while and then feel like crap for a long time.

Feel a little worse for a short time and then feel awesome for a long time!

Well, no. Yes and no.

You can take an antagonist on a 'happy' receptor to cause your brain to create more of them, increasing their total sensitivity, which might be noticeable for a while until it returns to baseline after discontinuing the unhappy drug. But for the most part, you'll feel the unpleasantness of the drug more than you'll feel the enjoyable withdrawals. Most drugs do appear to create a net positive towards their initial effect - it's just still no fun when you're already anxious or in pain and this is exacerbated by drug withdrawals. Also, part of the pain of withdrawal from a true addiction is caused by a separate mechanism on dopamine receptors that you can't get to work in reverse. To 'create value' with this system you need to find a receptor type that you don't need for one part of the day (such as when you sleep, when you're awake, when you don't have to work, etc) and only antagonize it when you don't want it anyway.

There is one example of a working trick that functions almost exactly like you described; some people take a very low dose of an opioid antagonist just before bed, so that when your body tries to measure how many endorphins (natural opioid) you have left and decides based on that how many more to make that night, it is tricked into creating a lot more than usual and you feel nice the next day. If you did this every day, though, your opioid receptors would still downregulate and cause it to work less well over time, as well as possibly cause mild withdrawals if you quit.

Edited by Raza, 29 September 2012 - 08:56 AM.

[ironfistx]

Well, no. Yes and no.

You can take an antagonist on a 'happy' receptor to cause your brain to create more of them, increasing their total sensitivity, which might be noticeable for a while until it returns to baseline after discontinuing the unhappy drug. But for the most part, you'll feel the unpleasantness of the drug more than you'll feel the enjoyable withdrawals. Most drugs do appear to create a net positive towards their initial effect - it's just still no fun when you're already anxious or in pain and this is exacerbated by drug withdrawals. Also, part of the pain of withdrawal from a true addiction is caused by a separate mechanism on dopamine receptors that you can't get to work in reverse. To 'create value' with this system you need to find a receptor type that you don't need for one part of the day (such as when you sleep, when you're awake, when you don't have to work, etc) and only antagonize it when you don't want it anyway.

There is one example of a working trick that functions almost exactly like you described; some people take a very low dose of an opioid antagonist just before bed, so that when your body tries to measure how many endorphins (natural opioid) you have left and decides based on that how many more to make that night, it is tricked into creating a lot more than usual and you feel nice the next day. If you did this every day, though, your opioid receptors would still downregulate and cause it to work less well over time, as well as possibly cause mild withdrawals if you quit.

That's too bad. I've personally experienced that a good 8-10 hours of drinking can cause a 24+ hour hangover, for example, so I might be willing to deal with 8-10 hours of mild discomfort in exchange for 24+ hours of afterglow :D

I suppose it makes sense that the body doesn't work that way, though.

Or like how regular use of a low dose of benzos can give you a subtle effect (as opposed to a high dose), but you can still have withdrawal when you quit. You could take something that gave you a subtle negative effect that was so subtle you barely noticed it, and do this for a few months or whatever, and then stop, and "withdrawal" is like a year of feeling awesome. Heh.

Edited by ironfistx, 29 September 2012 - 03:59 PM.

[Raza]

Mm. A hangover isn't alcohol withdrawal, it's poisoning from the Acetaldehyde it metabolises into, and you can't really reverse poison yourself.

Thing with our bodies is, it's way easier to disrupt and damage them than it is to improve on their functioning, because improvements would have to use existing structure (which is already halfway optimized by evolution, and which will resist us with mechanisms like receptor downregulation to restore homeostasis when we tinker with it to our own specifications), while harmful influences only have to break something.

You don't generally get a year of withdrawals from months of low-dose benzo use. Sometimes something goes wrong if you quit them too quickly and the receptors don't fix themselves, though. I suppose if you got that to work in reverse when quitting an antipsychotic or something equally unpleasant, you might have something.

Well, unless you went psychotic. Our 'ups' are such narrow ranges, compared to all the ways by which we can break.

[ironfistx]

Well, unless you went psychotic. Our 'ups' are such narrow ranges, compared to all the ways by which we can break.

Are you saying on a continuum from 1-10 with 1 being horrible and 10 being awesome, we normally exist around an 8 and we can boost up only to a 9 or a 10, but we can also drop all the way down to a 1?

[Raza]

Yes. And then most drugs/supplements can only get you to a 9 or 10 temporarily, with the potential for backlash when used wrong.

[Andrey_81]

OK, according to all above I've realized that phenibut is great for panic attack and anxiety but it takes few hours to start working and is extremely addictive. I'm planing to take it once in two weeks maximum, therefore I'm sure that I don't need to worry. Meeting in my company are usually on Monday and I'm afraid how will I feel the next few working days since the hangover from phenibut can be bad (is it bad if you take phenibut once a week???).

Is there something else I could try (l-theanine, GABA, 5-HTP...), I need something strong enough to take once in a two weeks and that you can take one hour or half hour before the stressful situation. I'm too emotional person, and I need something to boost my confidence or something that will kill my emotions and make my fell like I don't care if I don't know something or if i don't know the answer on the question (sometimes I have this feeling like I will start to cry if I don't know the answer). If the phenibut is the one I'm looking for... I'll go with it.

Edited by Andrey_81, 01 October 2012 - 06:52 AM.

[Raza]

There's no hangover that I know of with phenibut (we were talking about alcohol hangovers in the latter posts up above), and it takes maybe 20 minutes to start working on an empty-ish stomach... an hour at most. It should be good for your purposes.

Edited by Raza, 01 October 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[Andrey_81]

Thank you Raza What is the recommended dosage for the fresh user with panic disorder and anxiety? Is every phenibut that can be found on ebay OK or I need to find some special brand? Should I take caps or bulk powder? I assume that caps are easier to use.

[ironfistx]

There's no hangover that I know of with phenibut (we were talking about alcohol hangovers in the latter posts up above), and it takes maybe 20 minutes to start working on an empty-ish stomach... an hour at most. It should be good for your purposes.

This is the first report I've ever heard of Phenibut working in 20 minutes.

For me it was at least 3-4 hours.

[Raza]

There's no hangover that I know of with phenibut (we were talking about alcohol hangovers in the latter posts up above), and it takes maybe 20 minutes to start working on an empty-ish stomach... an hour at most. It should be good for your purposes.

This is the first report I've ever heard of Phenibut working in 20 minutes.

For me it was at least 3-4 hours.

I can't imagine any water soluble powder in a gel cap taking 3-4 hours to reach your brain. An hour, on a full stomach, maybe. Two, if you find coated, pressed tablets and take them on a full stomach. But 3-4?

Still, if that's your experience there might be something to it. My experience is up to an hour.

20 is the quickest I've noticed, though. It's usually 30-45.

Thank you Raza What is the recommended dosage for the fresh user with panic disorder and anxiety? Is every phenibut that can be found on ebay OK or I need to find some special brand? Should I take caps or bulk powder? I assume that caps are easier to use.

I stuff size 000 caps, which results in 900mg doses that I find convenient; one is good for mild anxiety, two for something more intense, and a third is not extreme if after the first two you still need it. To prevent outright panic attacks, I'd start at roughly one gram if I cared about finding my minimum effective dose, or around two if it was important to get it right the first time. Anyting inbetween those is reasonable.

I haven't heard of any phenibut brands being poor quality, and usually get the very cheapest from ebay or smartpowders.com myself. I'd only get bulk powder if you already have empty caps - otherwise buying the slightly more expensive prefilled caps to see if the stuff works for you would be wiser. You can always get bulk powder and a capsule machine if you end up really liking the stuff.

Edited by Raza, 01 October 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[ironfistx]

I'd start at roughly one gram if I cared about finding my minimum effective dose, or around two if it was important to get it right the first time. Anyting inbetween those is reasonable.

I wouldn't start with 1g to find the minimum effective dose. I'm telling you, I could feel 250mg, and 500mg was plenty. 1g probably wouldn've been too much.

Then again, I'm always shocked when I read about people taking 1-2g per day. But it is always from someone who caps their own. It has to be a quality control issue. Or maybe they're not measuring correctly. Or maybe the caps I got were over-dosed or something. The fact that there seems to be this much variation in such a powerful substance scares me. Imagine someone used to taking 2g of the powder decides to order the kind I had and thinks "well, I usually take 2g, so I'm gonna take 4 pills (500mg each), that will be a good dose!" and ends up passed out for 24 hours.

Always start small. If you start with 500mg and don't feel anything, that's fine, wait two or three weeks and try it again.

edit - I've never read a happy ending story about Phenibut online, though. Most of the threads involve some sort of taking too much and getting sick, or using it too often and getting addicted/withdrawals. There was a thread on another forum where some guy was documenting his withdrawal, he didn't post for a while, and then updated to say he had started taking it again.

I wouldn't even bother with it unless you have amazing self control. Respect and fear the drug.

Another reason to always start with a low dose is that phenibut seems to be a "chasing the dragon" supplement. I took months off between usages and it was never as good as in the beginning.

Edited by ironfistx, 01 October 2012 - 05:42 PM.

[Raza]

I have plenty of happy ending stories with phenibut for you, if you'd like. They're mostly uneventful though, which is probably why not many of them make it online. I'm also still using the same occasional doses to the same effect I was a year and a half ago.

And I've personally never clearly noticed anything below 750mgs (and I weight my doses fairly carefully), but if other people have then that's reason enough to start lower.

Anyway, your low doses might be why it felt like hours before it hit? It might peak around that time, I suppose.

Edited by Raza, 02 October 2012 - 03:50 PM.

[ironfistx]

I still have the bottle somewhere (I've been meaning to throw it away as it's expired). I can go check what brand of caps I was using.

It really does seem like everyone who needed higher doses was using powder, and people who need lower doses were using premade caps. I find that to be bizarre, and slightly suspicious.

[Andrey_81]

Do you guys think that 500 mg per day (when I have some stressful situation) would be OK for me? I'm planing to buy PrimaForce 250 mg caps. It seams easier to use than bulk powder. Can I mix pnenibut with ashwagandha? If you take 500 mg in the morning on empty stomach will it for sure last whole day (meetings are at 1:00 pm)?

I need to say that I'm still scared to start with phenibut after I read so many bad things on internet. I don't care if I need to try some kind of a herb, but in this case I have some chemistry or drug. But, when I think how hard and stressful it is while I'm on this meetings and all this panic attacks without confidence, I don't want to pass all this over again. I hope that phenibut will help me.

Btw. I'm still waiting for L-theanine to arrive. If it will not be strong enough I'll try phenibut. Can you compare the feeling after you take L-theanine with the feeling when you are on phenibut? Did somebody try both to share the experience? Is it comparable or there is nothing like phenibut

Thank you so much!

Edited by Andrey_81, 02 October 2012 - 07:48 PM.

[ironfistx]

Do you guys think that 500 mg per day (when I have some stressful situation) would be OK for me? I'm planing to buy PrimaForce 250 mg caps. It seams easier to use than bulk powder. Can I mix pnenibut with ashwagandha? If you take 500 mg in the morning on empty stomach will it for sure last whole day (meetings are at 1:00 pm)?

Based on my personal experience, yes. Take it at 7am if you want to feel it by 1pm. For me it took 3-4 hours to kick in and lasted for 8+ hours after that.

Do not rely on it for stressful situations. Do not take it more than once every two weeks. Once every month is better. Tolerance builds quickly and even at low doses, you'll still be chasing the dragon.

No idea what ashwagandha is or does.

I need to say that I'm still scared to start with phenibut after I read so many bad things on internet. I don't care if I need to try some kind of a herb, but in this case I have some chemistry or drug. But, when I think how hard and stressful it is while I'm on this meetings and all this panic attacks without confidence, I don't want to pass all this over again. I hope that phenibut will help me.

Btw. I'm still waiting for L-theanine to arrive. If it will not be strong enough I'll try phenibut. Can you compare the feeling after you take L-theanine with the feeling when you are on phenibut? Did somebody try both to share the experience? Is it comparable or there is nothing like phenibut

Thank you so much!

I don't know if they still make it, and if they do I don't know if the formula is the same, but 7 years or so ao I used Biotest's Spike (the pill, not the drink), which was a proprietary mixture but was basically just sulbutiamine and caffeine. It seemed to increase concentration and focus and might be useful in meetings. And it doesn't have any scary side effects like Phenibut (although a small percentage of users said it made them feel sick).

Biotest has two products called Spike. One is an energy drink with caffeine, yohimbe, methyl b12, etc. And it will get you wired like crazy cuz it has something ridiculous like 200 or 300mg of caffeine in it. The other Spike is a nootropic type pill with sulbutiamine and caffeine. But like I said I don't know if they still make it and I don't know if it has the same formula that it had 7 years ago when I last used it.

Regarding your last question, people have compared Phenibut to GHB. I've never used GHB so I don't know.

What about your meetings gives you stress and anxiety? Do you get picked on by bigwigs? Do you have to give presentations to people and you have a fear of public speaking? If we know a little more about what is going on maybe we can give you better advice.

[Andrey_81]

What about your meetings gives you stress and anxiety? Do you get picked on by bigwigs? Do you have to give presentations to people and you have a fear of public speaking? If we know a little more about what is going on maybe we can give you better advice.

Thank you. Here is my complete story:

http://www.longecity...423#entry533423

If you have time to read here is even more... the only thing that is helping me at the moment is ashwagandha, it made my everyday life much easier, but I think that I need something stronger:
http://www.longecity...a-miracle-herb/

Edited by Andrey_81, 02 October 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[limitthis]

Phenibut works for me within an hour and is not sedating. Picamlon is something that helps me to reduce stress and anxiety, which effects i feel within a half an hour.

[ironfistx]

What about your meetings gives you stress and anxiety? Do you get picked on by bigwigs? Do you have to give presentations to people and you have a fear of public speaking? If we know a little more about what is going on maybe we can give you better advice.

Thank you. Here is my complete story:

http://www.longecity...423#entry533423

If you have time to read here is even more... the only thing that is helping me at the moment is ashwagandha, it made my everyday life much easier, but I think that I need something stronger:
http://www.longecity...a-miracle-herb/

Sounds like a lack of confidence. As someone who has been there (and is still working to develop confidence), I think that using supplements for this is just going to be a bandaid. It may actually make your situation worse as you go from afraid of speaking in front of important people, to relying on the supplement in order to speak in front of important people. I mean you just said it yourself, ashwagandha is helping but you "think you need something stronger." Phenibut will work, and then it will start to lose its effect, and then you will want something stronger.

A better question is WHY do you feel that way? Do you feel like everyone is judging you?

[Andrey_81]

A better question is WHY do you feel that way? Do you feel like everyone is judging you?

Not sure how to answer. I'm always afraid that I don't know enough or that I will say something wrong. When I'm asked a question I don't know the answer I'm completely panicked (if I'm not on ashwagandha, but I know that ashwagandha acts on GABA). It is hard for me to say 'I don't know'. I wasn't like that before, I was completely opposite. Before in my life I used to work as a lecturer of MS Office programs in one successful company. Every week I was in a front of 20 new people, teaching them and presenting all my knowledge without problems (OK, to be honest, first few times I took Bromazepam before class, to stay calm). I was one of the best, full of confidence and I was sent to many big companies to give them 'computer' lessons, even to the bosses. During that time caffeine helped a lot. I used to take strong expresso before class and it gave be big boost of confidence and energy. When I changed the job and started something completely new all my problems started. I realized that I don't fell well in front of managers and bosses during the meetings. I don't like to present something. My confidence was so bad that in one period I was unable to speak normally in a bank or in a shop (this bad feeling like I will start to cry without reason). I though I'll go crazy. Then I started with Valerian, Brahmi, Ashwagandha, Rhodiola... and I was back to normal (now I'm on ashwagandha and rhodiola), but sometimes during the meetings I can steel feel this bad feeling of panic (not so stong as before, but is still present).

I stopped with coffee 8 months ago, because I read that it can activate anxiety. It was hard from the beginning (I was sleepy) but now it's much better and I have energy whole day. When I go to another company to have a meeting I always carry propranolol and bromazepam in my pocket, just in case if this strong and bad panic will come.

Funny, but everybody around me thinks that I'm great, one of the best. No one can see what am I going through. I'm always happy, funny, make people laugh, everybody likes me... Sad but true. They cannot imagine that it's hard for me to say my name during the meetings.

Edited by Andrey_81, 03 October 2012 - 07:11 AM.

[Andrey_81]

My last message was sent in October 2012. From that time I managed to survive all the meetings without major problems. The best combination so far is ashwagandha (500 mg) with 5 mg of propranolol.

I use ashwagandha on regular basis, usualy 2×250 mg per day, and it works like a miracle and it changed my life completely. For the situations that usually causes panic I take one pill extra 10-20 minutes before this situation (important meeting). It is the only thing that works in my case and blocs panic, not sure why.

I use propranolol only before the situations with very high stress (very important meetings with board of directors) and in combination with ashwagandha works amazing.

I tried propranolol alone, without ashwagandha and it wasn't so good. Tension, anxiety and nervous was still present and I could fill that have no full control. It was better than usually, but it wasn't even close that good as with ashwagandha.

My conclusion is that ashwgandha helps to my brain and nervs while propranolol blocks adrenaline and therefore I have no racing heartbeat. Together this is a perfect combo.

I'm planing to try phenibut. Yes, I have it at home for the past 4 months, and it's still unopened. In one month I need to hold one presentation in front of board or directors and I'm already afraid about the outcome. I'm just thinking about this situation that is in front of me even though I have one month left. Is is safe or necessary to take phenibut with propranolol and ashwagandha???

Is phenibut strong enough to reduce panic and to give me the confidence to speak in public without voice shaking?

Btw, what do you thing about the combination of propranolol+bromazepam (lexaurine)?

Edited by Andrey_81, 08 January 2013 - 12:44 PM.

[Andrey_81]

OK, since I started this topic I would like to share my personal, one day experience with Phenibut. I was really afraid to try it because I didn't know what to expect but I can say that now I look at Phenibut like a big potential for situational panic attacks or anxiety. I'm planing to take it once in a 3 months or maximum once in a 1,5 months before some situations that makes me scared, so there will be no problems with addictions or withdrawal.

I will also make a small comparison with ashwagandha, because it is the only supplement that really works with and I'm using it more than 10 months without any long breaks.

Today in the morning at 5:30 I took 750 mg (Primaforce, 250 mg caps) after I read that 500 mg is very low dose and is possible that you will feel nothing I decided to take 750 mg because I'm very sensitive to every supplement I take. It was strange for me that some people on the internet say that they are using 3 grams of powder to feel the benefits (??). After one hour while driving to work I felt that I'm more relaxed and completely calm. I was laughing in the car and some kind of optimism and good emotions were passing through my body. The feeling and calmness was similar to the one people experience after they take Propranolol (I tried, so I know) or Bromazepam (Lexaurin), but without any brain fog.

At 7:30 I started with my Spanish language lessons and when the teacher asked my something I didn't know I felt a little bit embarrassed and panicked. OK, this was 2 hours after the intake. I also noticed that I'm tired and sleepy and it was very hard for me to read new text in foreign language. I made many mistakes. I also felt like my head is squeezed and I felt a bit of pressure in my head, but nothing special. At 8:30 all changed and I become completely calm, phlegmatic (feeling like I don't give a damn), confident but in the same time focused. How the time was passing I was more confident and focused.

I also realized that I'm not sweating at all. Nothing. I was amazed. Usually my shirts are wet after 30 minutes of work. I was amazed when I realized that the feeling of the confidence without anxiety is lasting even after 12 hours and I was getting better and better. My speech ability improved a lot and I was talking more slowly, loud and clear. My wife told me that she can see that I'm different person by the way I speak.

Phenibut taken in such a small dose did not turned me into a monster or different person. It just helped me to feel better in my own body and not be afraid when somebody is asking me something. I felt like I have invisible shield.

At 17:30 (12 hours after I took my first dose) I become very talkative and focused, full of energy. At 20:30 I had even more energy and I was afraid that this 'fresh' feeling will last whole night. Now when I'm writing this (23:00) I started to feel that I'm tired, so I hope that I will have no problems with sleep.

I mentioned ashwagandha at the beginning because it lower my anxiety and panic in 3 minutes. How is this possibe? I felt phenibut after 3 hours and I can feel ashwagandha after only 3 minutes??

Does anybody know is it safe to take phenibut with ashwagandha and propranolol?

I have one difficult presentation in one month and I'm planing to take Phenibut in 1000 mg dose 4-5 hours before prresentation (today I took it only to feel my reaction to phenibut). I was thinking to take ashwagandha 30 minutes before presentation together with 5 mg of Propranolol. This combo should be perfect for situational panic attack like public speech, meeting or presentation.

I don't like the way phenibut is working. It is not a feeling like I would like to experience every day, it is just for special situations. For everyday anxiety and panic disorder, ashwaganhda is much better and healthier solution.

What do you think about the phenibut+ashwagandha+propranolol combo?

Is 750 mg of phenibut low dose for situational panic? For me work well, but I never experienced phenibut in higher dose so I don't know the difference.

Please help! Thank you.

Edited by Andrey_81, 09 January 2013 - 10:28 PM.

[ironfistx]

For anyone trying this for the first time, start with low doses. I feel 250mg. 500mg and I am a social butterfly.

It blows my mind that some people say they need GRAMS to feel anything. Quality control issue? I was using Serious Nutrition Solutions brand in 500mg capsules. To get 250mg I emptied part of the capsules out into my own capsules. Most of the people who say they needed a big dose said they were using bulk powder. So maybe they were measuring wrong, or maybe it's a quality issue. I used it maybe 4 times over a couple months, and I was afraid to use it anymore.

But honestly, I wouldn't even suggest Phenibut unless you have great self control. Tolerance builds fast and from the accounts line withdrawal can be awful.

Edited by ironfistx, 09 January 2013 - 10:23 PM.

[Andrey_81]

So is it possible that phenibut in higher doses like 1000 mg can turn you into a fearless person without emotions? This is exactly what I'm looking for. Is it safe to mix it with other supplements?

Edited by Andrey_81, 09 January 2013 - 10:26 PM.

[Adaptogen]

1+ gram phenibut does nothing but make me sleepy. I have high anxiety. 2.5 grams and a few beers and i had no anxiety.

For panic attacks i would use something like valerian over phenibut

[ironfistx]

So is it possible that phenibut in higher doses like 1000 mg can turn you into a fearless person without emotions? This is exactly what I'm looking for. Is it safe to mix it with other supplements?

No. 1,000mg would either make you very friendly, very sleepy, or sick. Unless you're one of those people who gets no response from 1,000mg.