15 replies to this topic

[Cassandra Coleman]

I have not seen many postings about dogs. But we are desperately trying to save our little girl. She had 1 mast cell tumor removed in December 2011 and has developed a second.

With the new Tumor her diabetes has become increasingly difficult to get under control. Not sure if they are related.

Either way here is a list of what we give her, If our doses are wrong or we need to make changes we are open to anything that is in her best interest.

thanks



Daily medication
1unit Lantus 2x daily
Benadryl 3ml 2x daily
Tagamet 1/4 tab daily



Daily suppliments:

Resveratrol 30mg
COQ10 50mg
Carnosine 50mg
Tumeric 120mg
Broccoli extract 20mg
Ginger sprinkle
Balanceit Multivitamin
Bee Pollen granuals


Weekly Suppliments

Coconut oil 1/8tsp 2x weekly
ACV 1/8tsp 2x weekly

[joelcairo]

What's the basis for giving her coconut oil? I've seen claims that it's a kind of wonder drug for cancer among other things, but I can find precious little in the published literature about that. And I could cite a couple of studies showing that it may even speed up cancer growth.

I've seen a fair number of people using DCA (dichloroacetate) to treat pets with cancer. It seems to be beyond debate that DCA does what it is narrowly claimed to do - decrease glycolysis in tumor cells and promote "normal" mitochondria respiration. In some tumors this can apparently cause remarkable cell death and growth inhibition; in others it can deplete oxygen even more and lead to greater hypoxia and more aggressive growth. The difference in outcome may lie in whether the tumor is well enough supplied with oxygen to feed the mitochondria. In any case it appears to be kind of a crapshoot.

[suprdupracetam]

If it were my dog, one of the things I think I'd
try is a low protein diet to lower IGF-1. combined with
food restriction one day a week you are likely to see
even more IGF-1 lowering. similar to the Laron population.
(see Luigi Fontana's work on vegans and IGF-1 reduction.)

watch the bbc documentary on IGF-1, cancer, aging.



There may be supplements like carnitine and taurine
that will be necessary for dogs on low protein diets. (not sure.)

[Cassandra Coleman]

Coconut oil is supposed to help her absorb the CoQ10. I have not read that it speeds up cancer, but will look into that ASAP as that is the last thing I want to do.

Misha is on Honest Kitchen Grain Free "Embark" and Resveratrol which mimics calorie restriction.

I hope I am on the right track. It is so very scary.

Thank you again!!

[niner]

Misha is on Honest Kitchen Grain Free "Embark" and Resveratrol which mimics calorie restriction.

To get the anti-cancer effect from resveratrol, you'll need to jack up the dose a lot. Misha probably needs at least 500mg to a gram, and at that dose you will need to use a high-purity form, 98% or better. I don't know if you can get it from mainstream supplement vendors, but RevGenetics has it.

[Cassandra Coleman]

If it were my dog, one of the things I think I'd
try is a low protein diet to lower IGF-1. combined with
food restriction one day a week you are likely to see
even more IGF-1 lowering. similar to the Laron population.
(see Luigi Fontana's work on vegans and IGF-1 reduction.)

watch the bbc documentary on IGF-1, cancer, aging.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfna7nV7WaM


There may be supplements like carnitine and taurine
that will be necessary for dogs on low protein diets. (not sure.)

Hi again, I am interested in IGF-1 lowering, I am just not sure how this would work with her diabetes, she is insulin dependant and on a gluten free high protein diet. Attached is a list of the suppliments she is on already.


I am very interested in any and all responses and opinions, experience etc.

Attached Files

•  MISHA DIET final 2.pdf   184.29KB   8 downloads

Edited by Cassandra Coleman, 24 May 2013 - 08:20 PM.

[Logic]

What's the basis for giving her coconut oil? I've seen claims that it's a kind of wonder drug for cancer among other things, but I can find precious little in the published literature about that. And I could cite a couple of studies showing that it may even speed up cancer growth.

I've seen a fair number of people using DCA (dichloroacetate) to treat pets with cancer. It seems to be beyond debate that DCA does what it is narrowly claimed to do - decrease glycolysis in tumor cells and promote "normal" mitochondria respiration. In some tumors this can apparently cause remarkable cell death and growth inhibition; in others it can deplete oxygen even more and lead to greater hypoxia and more aggressive growth. The difference in outcome may lie in whether the tumor is well enough supplied with oxygen to feed the mitochondria. In any case it appears to be kind of a crapshoot.

Coconut Oil:
When searching the published literature on Coconut Oil its important to search by the different constituents of Coconut Oil.
Fortunately this has already been done:
http://coconutresear...search-link.htm
http://coconutoil.com/peer_reviewed/

I would like to see the pro cancer studies as there were studies sponsored by the PUFA oil industry which can be discounted IMHO.

There are a good number of studies showing a connection between virii, retro-virii and cancer.
As Coconut Oil is shown to strip the lipid layer off of lipid coated virii, exposing them to the immune system and preventing them from infecting healthy cells; I feel that it's a good thing to have in a anti-cancer stack.

Also the dog is diabetic. Type 2 I assume?
Dogs evolved on a high protein diet (meat) and type 2 diabetes is 'caused' by refined carbs and sugars.
Cancers too are shown to love refined carbs and sugars for glycolysis.
The MCTs in Coconut oil have a large and growing body of evidence showing them to be an alternate source of energy for diabetic cells.

DCA:
Here I agree with you joelcairo.
Because DCA seems to work in cancer cells that get enough oxygen and not in hypoxic cells one can speculate that C60oo, which enable mitochondria to be more efficient and produce more energy from the available oxygen, would synergise well with DCA and anything that improved mitochondrial function to kill cancer.

Other things that seem to have a positive effect on mitochondria by boosting OXPHOS expression while suppressing ROS levels are Mebendazole and green tea amongst many others.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2715872/
This study needs looking at by more educated and experienced people than myself though.
"...microtubule modulators, including both a microtubule stabilizer (paclitaxel) and several destabilizers (mebendazole, nocodazole, podophyllotoxin, and vinblastine), as agents that boost OXPHOS expression while suppressing ROS levels. The second strategy also yielded deoxysappanone B, a natural product found in sappan wood, whose molecular mode of action is unknown and has not been previously linked to microtubule biology..."

NB: deoxysappanone B, a natural product found in sappan wood is used in the traditional Chinese medical system for therapy of diabetes mellitus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15099842


Then there's PQQ that protects mitochondria from oxidative stress and promotes the spontaneous generation of new mitochondria within aging cells.


This is all based on human physiology and highly speculative.
Adam32 has a dog with cancer and his research points to Green tea being bad for dogs.
http://www.longecity...-cancer-in-dog/

Edited by Logic, 25 May 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[Logic]

Here is a very nice summary of the
Large-scale chemical dissection of mitochondrial function
study:
http://www.longecity...n-mitochondria/

NB: Deoxysappanone, is found in green tea and is known to have anti-diabetic effects, but do check to make sure it good for dogs and check with Adam32.

[joelcairo]

Re coconut oil: Here's one study from my notes. Of course any study can be critiqued, and I ony have access to the abstract, but the result was that survival at 30 days in the coconut oil group was less than the controls, and far less than the fish oil group. If I have time, maybe I'll go into Google Search and see if I can find others.


Male rats were inoculated subcutaneously with Walker 256 carcinoma cells.

"Supplementation of the diet with fish oil significantly decreased tumor growth (by approximately 60%),

increased survival (50% at 30 days postinoculation vs. 30% in the controls and 13.5% in the coconut oil group),

and prevented the fall in body weight.


Cancer Cachexia and Tumor Growth Reduction in Walker 256 Tumor-Bearing Rats Supplemented With N-3 Polyunsaturated Fatty Acids for One Generation
http://www.tandfonli...07#.UaD5NWe_1rM

[Luminosity]

Sorry to hear you are dealing with that.

I would look for a veterinary acupuncturist.

Not sure how diet is implicated here but for what it's worth, when my dog developed grand mal seizures at the age of 13 I made her food from scratch and gave her spring water. We had been feeding her Kal Kan canned commercial dog food which was a common thing to do at the time, but it was full of bad chemicals. At that time I switched to giving her homemade chicken stew and gave her some seared Ahi and seared steak, and some plant foods I thought would be healthy for her. It was the chemicals in her food and water causing the seizures, because they declined 80% and she lived to be 18.

Look at what a domestic dog eats compared to what a wild wolf or African dog eats, the freshest raw food, mostly animal. I'm not sure if the food you wrote about is frozen, fresh, canned dried. If you can give your dog fresh food, that would be best. The food should not be cold when served. Let it at least come to room temperature because in Chinese medicine, cold food or drink is bad for people and animals. Don't serve cold water. Not sure what the food you wrote about has in it, but serving your dog meat, chicken or fish that you would eat yourself would be good. If it is safe to serve raw, then that can be good. For instance, there was a guy who had dogs who looked like models. He drove to a free range organic chicken farm in the country and got chickens for them that he gave them raw. That worked out o.k. but supermarket chicken you would cook, and hormone free would be a must for chicken because there are so many hormones in commercial chicken. Serving raw or seared fish if it's sushi quality would probably help, the EFA's would be good. Some organic or natural eggs or yogurt and a few vegetables that dogs can eat may help. I like plain whole milk Brown Cow or Stonyfield yogurt. Not sure if diabetic dogs should eat dairy. Some dogs can eat some cooked rice, not sure about diabetic dogs.

Not sure if environment has anything to do with your hair loss and your dog's issues but it makes me wonder.

Edited by Luminosity, 26 May 2013 - 03:33 AM.

[Luminosity]

I've seen a book about Chinese medicine for dogs and cats called Four Paws Five Directions. It's written by a veterinarian. Here's a link to its Amazon page. There are some books about acupressure for pets listed under this book on the same page.

http://www.amazon.co...five directions

As for finding a someone who specializes in acupuncture on pets, Sometimes I find information about medical professionals on Yelp. The person doesn't have to be a veterinarian, I think, but they should be trained on doing this on pets and be legitimate, whatever that means in this case. With people the person is licensed by the State, where I live.

[Cassandra Coleman]

Hi everyone,

Based on new info and a new diagnosis of yet another MCT we have change to the following regimen. I am very interested in feedback as I have been reading ( a little too much) and an very confused whether antioxidants are good or bad for cancer and NKT cells, etc. I am new at this so I apologize. My fear is that the antioxidants are protecting the cancer cells.

8am - mini breakfast - warm - .6u Lantus
> Avemar 1/4tsp
> Ahcc ~ 150 mg
> Superfood Immunity 1/8 tsp
> Now Foods Sipalina 73 MG
> Tumeric 200mg
> Quercatin 200mg
> CoQ10 19.5 MG
> Coconut oil 1/16 tsp
>
>
> 10am - full breakfast - room temp
> Carnosine 131.5MG
> Resveratrol 199 MG
> Ester-c 53.5MG
> Benadyrl 3MG
> Tagamet 25MG
> Cell Advantage 1/2 CAP
> Bilberry 120MG
>
>
>
>
>
> 12 - 1/3 lunch - chilled
>
>
> 2pm - 1/3 lunch if needed
>
>
> 6pm - 1/3 lunch
> Ocuglo 1cap
> Milk thistle 83mg
> K9 Transfer Factor 1/4 tab
> Benadyrl 3MG
> Tagamet 25MG
>
>
> 8pm - mini dinner - .8u lantus
> Avemar 1/4tsp
> Ahcc ~ 150 mg
> K9 Immunity 1/2 cap
> Tumeric 200mg
> Quercatin 200mg
>

Thank you every one!!!

[Luminosity]

I've already cast doubt on coconut oil for reasons given elsewhere, and cold food. Ditto using the same vitamins for humans as dogs without seemingly looking into that as much as it needs to be looked into[?], but happy about the warm food.

Also, wondering if the thing implanted into your dog caused your hair loss? Was it for chemo? If so, I'd wonder if somehow the chemicals got into your system and caused hair loss? If so, maybe those chemicals are around the vet's office and got into you even before your dog had the implant, if those devices are defective. If the thing emits radiation--not sure if that can cause hair loss, but it's worth looking into. I'd make a timeline of events.

If chemo chemicals caused your hair loss, some western doctors can treat this with a therapy called chelation. Chinese medicine is also good. You can be tested for the chemicals your dog was treated with. A toxicologist may be helpful for that.

[Cassandra Coleman]

I am a little confused. There was nothing implanted into my dog. Was his comment for me?

[DePaw]

Ketogenic diets work very well to starve even advanced cancer cells, as cancer cells don't have functioning mitochondria they can only burn glucose for fuel, not fats or ketones, so restrict carbohydrates to barely anything and you starve the cancer while nourishing the body. Dogs are carnivores evolutionarily and should be eating a high fat high protein low carb mostly meat diet anyway.

Reducing carbohydrates too will make managing the diabetes much easier, less insulin will be required to stabilise blood glucose levels.

Google 'BARF diet', which is what dogs should eat, the general rule is 1lb raw meat per 50lbs body weight, double or is they have cancer or other serious illnesses (or pregnant, etc), so this is only ~4oz+ raw food needed for day for your chihuahua. The diet is generally 65-80% bony meat (chicken backs are a common favourite), 10% organs, half of which should be liver, and the rest raw vegetables (preferably fermented to approximate semi digested plant matter in the prey's digestive system), including some kelp for iodine. If you're worried about bones for such a small dog, then ground up egg shells is a good alternative, mixed into ground meat. Eggs themselves are a great food too, very rich in nutrients.

[Luminosity]

Yes. I thought something was but apparently not.