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[FightAging] On Zinc Transport Dysregulation With Aging


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#1 reason

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:08 PM


I don't often talk about anything related to the overlap between supplements and aging. For one, that entire industry is irrelevant given the scope of regenerative medicine and rejuvenation biotechnology: the future is deliberately designed and targeted medical technologies, not the lingering remnants of past medical practices influenced by oral fixation and magical thinking. You can't fix anything of significance in human aging by digging around for found compounds to stick into your mouth - that is characteristic of the just-about-up-to-dealing-with-infections medicine of the last millennium, and the sooner this model ceases to dominate the public imagination the better.

Secondly, there are any number of vocal resources out there that talk about nothing but naturally occurring things that you can stick into your mouth. Many of them want to sell you those naturally occurring things, and of those folk a sizable contingent spend their time making loud and unsupported claims with regard to their products and human aging. Unfortunately there is so much money in that business that sense and ethics largely fled a long time ago.

Lastly, nothing you can presently buy, consume, or wear is anywhere near as effective as either exercise or calorie restriction when it comes to health over the long term. Science tells us that much, with a great weight of evidence, and anyone claiming otherwise has a tall hill indeed to climb to make any sort of a case. They try nonetheless, day in and day out, and merchant voices often outweigh those of the scientific community in our popular culture when it comes to the relationship between people, medicine, and aging.

So I don't often talk about anything related to supplements. It isn't productive. Still, occasionally research does show up to suggest that there might be meaningful benefits to some form of therapy using a common supplement or food item. It's pretty rare, however - next to nonexistent. The only one springing to mind right this instant is the evidence suggesting that the body processes the essential amino acid luceine increasingly poorly with aging. This contributes to the muscle wasting of sarcopenia, but, unlike nearly all such issues, can be staved off by adding more luceine to the diet.

Again, let me emphasize that this sort of situation is rare. It is almost never the case that a specific progressive failure in the body's biochemistry can be ameliorated by sticking more of something related to the failure into your mouth. Biology is far more complex than that - imagining that you can affect a specific portion of your biochemistry in some desired way by consuming one of the compounds involved in a reaction somewhere in the process is basically a form of magical thinking.

So that all said as a sort of preamble, let me point you to a study on zinc-related mechanisms that's presently doing the rounds, with links to the publicity release and the paper:

A new study has outlined for the first time a biological mechanism by which zinc deficiency can develop with age, leading to a decline of the immune system and increased inflammation ... The study was [based on findings in laboratory mice]. It found that zinc transporters were significantly dysregulated in old animals. They showed signs of zinc deficiency and had an enhanced inflammatory response even though their diet supposedly contained adequate amounts of zinc.

When the animals were given about 10 times their dietary requirement for zinc, the biomarkers of inflammation were restored to those of young animals.

"We've previously shown in both animal and human studies that zinc deficiency can cause DNA damage, and this new work shows how it can help lead to systemic inflammation. Some inflammation is normal, a part of immune defense, wound healing and other functions. But in excess, it's been associated with almost every degenerative disease you can think of, including cancer and heart disease. It appears to be a significant factor in the diseases that most people die from."

If a progressively disarrayed zinc metabolism does impact inflammation and immune function in a fairly general way, one would expect to see some beneficial effect on life span from suitably zinc-fortified diets. You might look at another recent paper for an example of researchers pumping extra zinc into laboratory animals to see what happens - I'm sure that there's much more out there from past decades if you care to go digging.

In any case, I note this research for its rarity rather than its potential utility. At the end of the day, how much zinc you put into your diet will not swing your life span by anywhere near as much as even a mediocre level of progress towards biotechnologies that can repair the root causes of aging. As a culture, we need to tear ourselves away from the propaganda of the supplement industry and the fascination with dietary tinkering: none of that will save lives or meaningfully deal with the fact that we're all aging to death.

Biotechnology is where we must look to the future of medicine: gene therapies, ways to precisely alter specific cellular components, targeted nanoparticles to remove senescent cells, stem cell engineering, tailored bacterial enzymes to break down unwanted intracellular waste products - these and many similar lines of research are the future and the path to living in good health for many more years than were available to our ancestors.


<br> <br>View the full article

#2 xEva

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:40 PM

When the animals were given about 10 times their dietary requirement for zinc, the biomarkers of inflammation were restored to those of young animals.


The question is why inflammation is rampant in older animals, not how to quench it.

It is well known that inflammation is part of the immune response. The simplest hypothesis is that inflammation is driven by chronic infections. This type of infections tend to be overlooked, even though they may be the major cause of aging and death itself. These infections are characterized by hardly noticeable symptoms and very slow and steady spread throughout the body that may take decades (in contrast to obvious, fumigating invasions with fever and violent immune reactions that everyone associates with 'infection'). Such quiet and stealthy chronic infections become the cause of chronic inflammation that in time becomes the cause of other diseases associated with aging, from vascular diseases to cancer.

This hypothesis is very old and maybe that's why is it being overlooked now. In the past, the old techniques failed to conclusively demonstrate the presence of microbes in various types of human tissue (thus contributing to the myth that a 'healthy' human body is largely sterile). Advances in technology has finally demonstrated the presence of DNA of various microbes in tissues of healthy, young individuals. Some studies showed that the variety and number of colonizing microbes correlate with age and degree of symptoms a person experiences. (please note: these microbes are *not* in the gut or on skin but in the blood, in the arterial plaque, in the cells of various organs, etc).

If this is so --and it has been so for quite the number of years already, please google-- then why are we as a community still barking up the wrong tree? This is the most direct, most obvious cause of ALL diseases of aging and death itself. It is slow and steady demolition of the immune system, driven by the microbes, who find this state of affairs beneficial for their own growth and survival.

Why is this overlooked? Cause it's not sexy or high tech enough? Too obvious? Too hard to tackle? Why?

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#3 Logic

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:16 PM

Why is this overlooked? Cause it's not sexy or high tech enough? Too obvious? Too hard to tackle? Why?


Too obvious imho.
Easy to tackle though with Coconut oil and BHT for a start.

#4 xEva

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 12:36 AM

Sorry, do not see how coconut oil and BHT can help other than with some viruses. The real culprit is bacteria: mycoplasma, chlamydia, borrelia, etc. a wide variety of intracellular bugs, known and unknown, that slowly accumulate and form complex biofilms. With time they further dysregulate the immune system and make the cells they colonize 'old', starting with inhibition of autophagy.

When just a few cells are infected, you can't feel it in any way, because there are millions others. The only symptom is unspecific inflammation that comes and goes. Slowly the infection grows as years pass and other bugs join in. In a few decades, inflammation is rampant and you suddenly find that your joints hurt and arteries lined with plaque. Oh well, they say, that's just old age..

#5 sthira

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:06 AM

Yep. You're totally right on. I guess the problem is it's all so terribly complicated?

Recently I was hiking in the woods. In the process, I managed somehow to return home completely covered in tiny, baby seed ticks. Now they're all feasting on me. I feel like each individual creature is adding to my inflammation, stressing my immune system, and doing god knows what else to me. These are the critters I see and feel. I can't even begin to imagine all the other tiny forms of life I'm hosting within me that are slowly killing me.

#6 Logic

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:53 PM

Sorry, do not see how coconut oil and BHT can help other than with some viruses. The real culprit is bacteria: mycoplasma, chlamydia, borrelia, etc. a wide variety of intracellular bugs, known and unknown, that slowly accumulate and form complex biofilms. With time they further dysregulate the immune system and make the cells they colonize 'old', starting with inhibition of autophagy.

When just a few cells are infected, you can't feel it in any way, because there are millions others. The only symptom is unspecific inflammation that comes and goes. Slowly the infection grows as years pass and other bugs join in. In a few decades, inflammation is rampant and you suddenly find that your joints hurt and arteries lined with plaque. Oh well, they say, that's just old age..


I did say "...for a start."

I suggest you do a little more research on Coconut Oil as it kills way more pathogens than just lipid coated virii.
Try this link for a start:
http://coconutoil.com/mary_enig/

Also see the references here:
http://www.coconutdiet.com/viruses.htm

Also note that BHT increased lifespan in rats (or mice (cant remember)) by 20%...

This conversation is probably best continued here:
http://www.coconutdiet.com/viruses.htm

Sorry for hijacking your very interestig thread Reason.

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#7 xEva

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:24 PM

I agree that this thread may be best split from the original post.

I don't quite get your point, Logic. There are cultures who traditionally consume large quantities of coconut oil, but they are not particularly known for longevity. Besides, there is no info that I know of that would show that coconut oil or BHT helps with bacterial infections. (I hope you're not coocnut oil producer yourself, but only an enthusiast -?)

I advance a perhaps radical for many here hypothesis that microbes are the agents of entropy in biological systems and constitute the main cause of all diseases (aside from the inborn genetic mishaps, trauma and poisonings, of course) and thus are directly responsible for aging and death. These microbes include bacteria, viruses and fungi. They slowly invade the bodies of higher animals and dysregulate immunity and metabolism leading to chronic diseased states.

Please note that I am not talking about the symbiotic bacteria that live on skin, mucous membranes and in the gut, all of which are loci outside the organism proper. I am talking about the ones that actually invade the organism and undermine its integrity.

My study of fasting that includes not only the scientific literature but also extensive records of detailed fasting logs (on a Russian fasting board) indicates that fasting works by getting rid of chronic bacterial infections responsible for systemic inflammatory diseases which are usually touted as "autoimmune" by the contemporary medicine. My hypothesis is that a combination of an antibiotic therapy in conjunction with fasting can do more for life extension than anything else known today.

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#8 Logic

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:15 PM

I agree that this thread may be best split from the original post.

I don't quite get your point, Logic. There are cultures who traditionally consume large quantities of coconut oil, but they are not particularly known for longevity. Besides, there is no info that I know of that would show that coconut oil or BHT helps with bacterial infections. (I hope you're not coocnut oil producer yourself, but only an enthusiast -?)


I dont knw of any studies showing increased longevity for coconutoil either, but the links provideddo show it killing bacteria and fugii as well as lipid coated virii. There also seems to be some evidence of it returning AIDS patients to HIV positive status. This evidence is why I... 'pimp' it so much and eliev its a good thig to take daily. Do follow the liks I posted...
There is some literature on BHT increasing lifespan though.

:) I live in a semi desert in South Africa, so my chances of being a cocout oil supplier are nill. Pity it wont grow here; its quite expensive.

I advance a perhaps radical for many here hypothesis that microbes are the agents of entropy in biological systems and constitute the main cause of all diseases (aside from the inborn genetic mishaps, trauma and poisonings, of course) and thus are directly responsible for aging and death. These microbes include bacteria, viruses and fungi. They slowly invade the bodies of higher animals and dysregulate immunity and metabolism leading to chronic diseased states.

Please note that I am not talking about the symbiotic bacteria that live on skin, mucous membranes and in the gut, all of which are loci outside the organism proper. I am talking about the ones that actually invade the organism and undermine its integrity.

My study of fasting that includes not only the scientific literature but also extensive records of detailed fasting logs (on a Russian fasting board) indicates that fasting works by getting rid of chronic bacterial infections responsible for systemic inflammatory diseases which are usually touted as "autoimmune" by the contemporary medicine. My hypothesis is that a combination of an antibiotic therapy in conjunction with fasting can do more for life extension than anything else known today.


I agree with all this and am interested in your advice on fasting (duration and frequency)
I feel that adding suppliments that kill pathogens one way or another is a good idea.
Do look at the link to the other thread I provided as there is a good list there.
Its where this conversation should be taking place imho.

You seem to be avoiding reading the given links/info???

Edited by Logic, 08 October 2012 - 07:21 PM.





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