44 replies to this topic

[bernard]

I've never used methylene blue before. Would someone suggest a protocol for beginners please. What are the possible sides. What are possible interactions with other drugs positive and negative. How long should it be taken. What's the end result ?

[stablemind]

Please see attachment for the dosing instructions (60 mcg)

Attached Files

•  methylene blue.JPG   104.8KB   317 downloads

Edited by stablemind, 07 October 2012 - 06:13 AM.

[bernard]

Oh thanks so much. That's so nice.

"Methylene blue is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI),^[6] and if infused intravenously at doses exceeding 5 mg/kg, may precipitate serious serotonin toxicity, serotonin syndrome, if combined with any selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) or other serotonin reuptake inhibitor (e.g., duloxetine, sibutramine, venlafaxine, clomipramine, imipramine).^[7]
Methylene blue is also structurally similar to chlorpromazine and the typical antipsychotics. It is the basic compound from which chlorpromazine and many other antipsychotics are made.^[8]
Methylene blue is a component of a frequently prescribed urinary analgesic/anti-infective/anti-spasmodic known as "Prosed", a combination of drugs which also contains phenyl salicylate, benzoic acid, hyoscyamine sulfate, and methenamine (aka hexamethylenetetramine and not to be confused with 'methanamine').<sup>["

Is this a MAOI only or there's more to it ?</sup>

Edited by Tatsumaru, 07 October 2012 - 10:07 AM.

[bernard]

More from wiki:
"TauRx Therapeutics has reported that methylene blue (methylthioninium chloride), under the tradename Rember, may provide a way of halting or slowing the progression of Alzheimer's dementia.^[38] However, the formulation used was different from that commonly available as a medicine and caution has been expressed about use of methylene blue as a treatment for Alzheimer's.^[39] TauRx Therapeutics has suggested that the mechanism by which methylene blue might delay or reverse neurodegeneration in Alzheimer's disease is as an inhibitor of Tau protein aggregation. While methylene blue arguably has an effect on Tau aggregation, it has been shown to have a great effect in dissociation of amyloids^[40] and also has an effect on mitochondrial function which are both likely targets that result in its therapeutic effect. In vitro studies suggest that methylene blue might be an effective remedy for both Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease by enhancing key mitochondrial biochemical pathways. It can disinhibit and increase complex IV, whose inhibition correlates with Alzheimer's disease.
Methylene blue might also delay senescence as one study has shown that it extended the lifespan of IMR90 fibroblasts by more than 20 population doublings.^[41]
These findings are highly controversial,^{[citation needed]} and a clear dosage response curve has not been found."

Apparently some take 60mg+
"The University of Aberdeen held a Phase IIB clinical trial^[4][5] on 321 people with mild Alzheimer's disease in the United Kingdom and Singapore and found that taking the drug 3 times a day over a period of 50 weeks slows down the development of Alzheimer's disease by about 81%.^[6]
The patients were split into four groups: one group taking a dose of 30 mg, another taking a dose of 60 mg, a third taking a dose of 100 mg and the fourth taking a placebo. The 60 mg dosage gave the best results, giving an 81% reduction in mental degression compared to those on the placebo. Only those on the placebo experienced a decline in mental function."


In a 2% soultion 1ml should equal 1g of Methylrosaniline hydrochloride (please confirm that this is MB and not New MB which is toxic). So a full 1l bottle with 1.5ml MB would result in a solution containining about 1.5g of methylene blue = 1500mg. And since only 1.25ml of this solution is used, that equals about 1.875mg (3.6 if 500ml bottle is used) of Methylene Blue according to my calculations.

Considering that they used 60+mg per day to treat certain brain conditions wouldn't you agree that ~2 mg (4mg for 500ml bottle) is rather ineffective ?

Edited by Tatsumaru, 07 October 2012 - 11:31 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

From a write-up on my profile page, pointing out potential dangers of doses in the TauRx range--

A few years ago (after the stories about Rember came out) I tried a dose of MB. I didn't have Alzheimer's but it seemed like a potentially good prophylactic as everyone my age probably has some of this defective tau protein. In fact, I found that I was thinking more clearly with a dose of 100mg, but when it wore off I was suddenly having difficulty following the plot of TV shows. Uh-oh! So I looked for something that would correct the defective (hyperphosphorylated) tau that causes tangles and tried MB again a couple of days later, this time adding 500 mg niacin every few hours. The problem went away and when the MB wore off I was no worse off for the experience. So I realized that seemingly modest doses of MB can be dangerous, that even if you don't have symptoms of AD you might create them by forming tangles that didn't previously exist. On the plus side, it seemed possible that MB+niacin is a cure for AD, if the MB dissolves the hyperphosphorylated tau tangles and allows niacin (or niacin analogue like niacinamide) to get access.

Other supplements that have been shown to mitigate tau pathology: sodium selenate and propranolol. I take both.

[bernard]

Quite interesting. Thanks. I'm not sure what that means exactly. Isochroma here has been taking MB at 200+mg for months and stopped for a few days to test withdrawal symptoms and reported no major problems.

[Turnbuckle]

Quite interesting. Thanks. I'm not sure what that means exactly. Isochroma here has been taking MB at 200+mg for months and stopped for a few days to test withdrawal symptoms and reported no major problems.

Isochroma seems to have dissapeared shortly after saying that, but what I can gather from his posts is that he did indeed claim to take 200 mg and stopped for a week with no ill effects. However, it seems he miscaluclated what he was taking. The day he vanished, semi-retarded-individual pointed out that he was really taking 46 mg a day based on his own statemets that he was taking 20 drops of 2.3% solution twice a day. He relplied that "LIFE is not an abstraction that exists in mcgs or mgs or grams," then vanished. So I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the safety of 200mg MB based on that.

[bernard]

But then in this same topic, it's mentioned that 200-300mg was what they gave soldiers to prevent malaria and other diseases, and no acute side effects were observed.

[Turnbuckle]

But then in this same topic, it's mentioned that 200-300mg was what they gave soldiers to prevent malaria and other diseases, and no acute side effects were observed.

There are recent studies in Africa with huge doses--as high as 10 mg/kg, twice a day. But they never mention mental effects, even though if you look at the other MB thread, there are tons of them. But people with malaria aren't going to notice, are they?

As for the use on soldiers, have you seen a toxicity report? Our military is notorious for giving drugs to people who can't say no.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 07 October 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[bernard]

Well in any case I'm not really looking to exceed 10-20mg/day. I think MB has some extremely positive long-term effect on cognition that I'm rather interested in.

[DeadMeat]

In a 2% soultion 1ml should equal 1g of Methylrosaniline hydrochloride (please confirm that this is MB and not New MB which is toxic).

In a 2% solution 1 ml is about 0.02 g of MB.
And thats crystal violet and not such a great idea(carcinogenic).
http://en.wikipedia..../Crystal_violet
http://en.wikipedia..../Methylene_blue

[bernard]

Oh that's really nice. Thank you.

I ended up ordering Kordon MB after all for safety. Just to be clear - how much mg MB is there in one drop of Kordon's MB solution ?

Btw. the name "Crystal Violet" sounds very poetic and awesome.

Edited by Tatsumaru, 07 October 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[DeadMeat]

If your solution is 2.3% then there is 0.023 g in a ml. There is about 20 drops in a ml, so then there is 0.023/20 = 0.00115 g so 1.15 mg in a drop.

[bernard]

Thanks a lot.

[bernard]

Why do some antioxidants like CoQ10 decrease the effect of MB ? CoQ10 is supposed to be a nootropic, increasing the mitochondrial oxygen uptake.

What's the problem with combining the two ? Are there also other compounds which decrease the effect of MB ? I've heard some people take Vit.E and Lycopene with MB which are also antioxidants. Could this be an issues as well ?

[angela86]

Guys. Can anyone help me with a proper way to measure methylene blue? I'm at a loss as to how to arrive at a proper dosage. It's really easy to overdose on this..

[bernard]

Guys. Can anyone help me with a proper way to measure methylene blue? I'm at a loss as to how to arrive at a proper dosage. It's really easy to overdose on this..

Erm, did you even read this thread ?

[angela86]

Yeah, I was just tired as hell. That's all. I was skimming for relevant information, I guess I missed that post.

[david ellis]

From a write-up on my profile page, pointing out potential dangers of doses in the TauRx range--

A few years ago (after the stories about Rember came out) I tried a dose of MB. I didn't have Alzheimer's but it seemed like a potentially good prophylactic as everyone my age probably has some of this defective tau protein. In fact, I found that I was thinking more clearly with a dose of 100mg, but when it wore off I was suddenly having difficulty following the plot of TV shows. Uh-oh! So I looked for something that would correct the defective (hyperphosphorylated) tau that causes tangles and tried MB again a couple of days later, this time adding 500 mg niacin every few hours. The problem went away and when the MB wore off I was no worse off for the experience. So I realized that seemingly modest doses of MB can be dangerous, that even if you don't have symptoms of AD you might create them by forming tangles that didn't previously exist. On the plus side, it seemed possible that MB+niacin is a cure for AD, if the MB dissolves the hyperphosphorylated tau tangles and allows niacin (or niacin analogue like niacinamide) to get access.

Other supplements that have been shown to mitigate tau pathology: sodium selenate and propranolol. I take both.

Talk about an uh-oh moment. I had one too. I have been taking MB for about 3 three weeks. I experienced a decrease in mental ability and an increase in anxiety in the last week. For the last year and a half I have needed to take methylphenidate so that I can do math without frustration.

The decrease in mental ability made me at first think - the methylphenidate is not strong enough now. I am taking 20 mg for the last six months, and prior to that, one year at 10 mg. So I didn't think MB and tau was the cause, I thought I just might need a larger pill.

Then, a few days later, I think, it's better, the methylphenidate is working now, because I am doing math without frustration. Big surprise for me, though, my pillbox for the day still had the methylphenidate in it. So for the first time in a long time, I did math without methylphenidate. That is good, that was real progress.

I was surprised that my niacinamide dose of 725 mg was not enough to clear the tau. I thought 725 mg of niacinamide would be plenty considering my smaller 60 mcg dose. So, considering what happened, I am going to triple the niacinamide for awhile spreading the doses throughout the day, and hopefully have even more days when I don't need methylphenidate.


Turnbuckle, thanks for your post. If I hadn't been taking niacinamide this would not have been pretty.

[bernard]

So the punch line is that MB should be taken in conjunction with niacinamide ?

Too bad that niacin is a Sirt1 inhibitor...

[david ellis]

Talk about an uh-oh moment. I had one too. I have been taking MB for about 3 three weeks. I experienced a decrease in mental ability and an increase in anxiety in the last week. . . .

An update on my uh-oh moment. Methylene blue at a homeopathic dose wan't the problem. I recently added Reishi as a supplement. Lots of people believe that Reishi is an amphetamine antagonist. I do too, because dropping Reishi, restored the effectiveness of my methylphenidate.

[bernard]

Talk about an uh-oh moment. I had one too. I have been taking MB for about 3 three weeks. I experienced a decrease in mental ability and an increase in anxiety in the last week. . . .

An update on my uh-oh moment. Methylene blue at a homeopathic dose wan't the problem. I recently added Reishi as a supplement. Lots of people believe that Reishi is an amphetamine antagonist. I do too, because dropping Reishi, restored the effectiveness of my methylphenidate.

Are we starting to form a clear idea of what the proper MB stack should look like ? This is very important.

Edited by Tatsumaru, 12 January 2013 - 06:55 PM.

[bernard]

Any idea what a typical MB half-life looks like ?

[AdamI]

Any idea what a typical MB half-life looks like ?

Found this on another forum "MB is a dye, so I would think it is good for a long, long time. Since QC has formalin, it will outdate. I wouldn't go beyong 6 months with it."

As a chem MB is stable in air, but sensitive to sunlight

[bernard]

That sounds more like shelf life, not half life.

[AdamI]

yeah I miss read ur question

[AdamI]

Now I have asked a friend, he said that 75% of the MB has left teh body after 24 hours. After 6 days all MB is gone. MB exist in the kidney 3 days after the intake.
Soo one can assume that about 3 days after MB has been taken most is gone.
You should be able to count the half life on those data...?

[bernard]

According to that information the half-life should be 16 hours.

Edited by Tatsumaru, 12 February 2013 - 09:22 AM.

[MrHappy]

Bell curve spans about 5 hours.

[bernard]

I started MB one week ago. I dissolved about 1-2 drops of Kordon MB in a 250ml glass of water. It's about this blue:


I drink about 3 small puffs every day (probably about a ml or so). I'm guessing that's about 60-100mcg. Definitely no colouring of urine and no taste (maybe just a little). I drink 5 days and I stop for the weekend. I don't feel much but it feels good. Could be placebo but I do feel a bit more energetic and confident. A tad more anxious as well. I sleep for too long which is not good but I usually sleep that way so it might not have anything to do with MB.

A bit of a negative effect is that I feel really crampy in my traps and necks. As if I've slept on an opened window. You know what I mean ? Could a be a taurine/potassium/magnesium deficiency too. Anyone felt this on MB ?