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The Anhedonia Thread

anhedonia depression attention l-dopa ssre adaptogen quetiapine consummatory anhedonia

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#391 PeaceAndProsperity

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 12:50 AM

The 5ht2a receptor causes a whole host of symptoms in psychotic disorders. Flat affect is the worst, before flat affect is blunted affect and similar things. Are you sure you're flat and not just the less severe versions?

 

I've found Ginkgo Biloba to be effective against the fatigue and emotional blunting (doesn't fully resolve though it works well) but sadly Ginkgo Biloba is notorious for causing anxiety. I believe it is a 5ht2a antagonist.



#392 Hip

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 01:02 AM

I think I am more blunted affect these days (some emotions sometimes appear), though I was probably closer to flat affect (no emotions) a few years ago, when my symptoms were more severe. 

 

I found this page by SelfHacked on some of the effects of 5HT2A. 



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#393 medievil

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Posted 05 January 2018 - 01:29 PM

Bump


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#394 Galaxyshock

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 08:29 AM

Yeah what's new in anhedonia treatments?

 

Aripiprazole relieves motivational anhedonia in rats.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29100151

 

Just a rat study but overall Aripiprazole is considered activating unlike all other APs. I took Aripiprazole for a while and did notice the activating effect. Unfortunately it seemed to make me unable to stay still and a bit restless so I decided to stop taking it. I also experimented with Scopolamine, an anti-muscarinic, which seemed to have some hedonia-enhancing qualities but the side effects of disorientation and cognitive decline weren't worth it.

 

Kava is pretty nice herbal with recreational effects. It's good for social anhedonia, makes you want to chat people and be genuinely interested in their lives. Also makes music sound better. Only problem is the horrible taste and having to ingest quite a lot of the plant matter if you want the strong effects. Last time I took it I vomited so I'm now a bit aversive about using it.

 

Right now I'm taking a lot of botanicals with surprisingly strong effects in all areas of anhedonia. I'll post more when I can make more objective conclusions.


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#395 Vieno

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:02 AM

I am still alive


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#396 Mind_Paralysis

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 02:11 PM

Yeah what's new in anhedonia treatments?

 

Aripiprazole relieves motivational anhedonia in rats.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/29100151

 

Just a rat study but overall Aripiprazole is considered activating unlike all other APs. I took Aripiprazole for a while and did notice the activating effect. Unfortunately it seemed to make me unable to stay still and a bit restless so I decided to stop taking it. I also experimented with Scopolamine, an anti-muscarinic, which seemed to have some hedonia-enhancing qualities but the side effects of disorientation and cognitive decline weren't worth it.

 

Kava is pretty nice herbal with recreational effects. It's good for social anhedonia, makes you want to chat people and be genuinely interested in their lives. Also makes music sound better. Only problem is the horrible taste and having to ingest quite a lot of the plant matter if you want the strong effects. Last time I took it I vomited so I'm now a bit aversive about using it.

 

Right now I'm taking a lot of botanicals with surprisingly strong effects in all areas of anhedonia. I'll post more when I can make more objective conclusions.

 

Since the activating properties probably come from the partial D2 and D3 (in particular) effects, then it might be a good idea to try some of the LESS activating partial agonist AP's* - there is now also Cariprazine and BREXpiprazole in particular - they are both less prone towards causing the same kind of akathisia Aripiprazole does.

 

Brex is probably your best bet, since that's the drug that has actual testing for the treatment of depression under its belt - showing efficacy! And it's the most similar to Aripiprazole, without being as jittery... With that said, the side-effects of weight gain and increased prolactine is then back - but honestly? If it works, it's probably worth it - at least it would be to me.

 

 

*(I'm not sure if calling these "AP's" is the right word though... SDAM's seems more accurate - the side-effects and effects are rather different, and the potential span of use is much wider than classic 1-2-gen AP's)



#397 magniloquentc0unt

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 04:09 PM

im supplementing ginkgo, maca and zinc regularly

probiotics too

that has worked pretty well recently to keep me in a good mood and cognitively on the positive side

i had tried microdoses of vortioxetine for a while and it works great for anhedonia (cognition especially, which i think its what impacts me the most from depression)

but i had penis issues after a while of regular dosing so i discontinued (albeit much less than normal SSRIs)

anhedonia wise i must say i believe im doing much better in recent months, but motivation and drive is still a big issue

i will try ladasten as soon as shops have it back in stock (apparently sold out all over the world wide web - go tell)



#398 magniloquentc0unt

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 04:22 PM

besides that, the real and only "nuke" for anhedonia ive ever found was NSI-189, but it was extreme and most of the time not on the positive side. it was a negative situation which i, due to the nsi, blew out of proportions. 

to be honest i had lost all my addictive behaviours in that period, which was great. no compulsive porn/masturbation/videogames use (on a side note if anyone has a trick on how to get rid of that...welcome! its super bad for anhedonia i know...)


Edited by magniloquentc0unt, 16 January 2018 - 04:27 PM.


#399 Galaxyshock

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 02:11 PM

I thought Naltrexone only blocks drug reward but it seems that it also blocks natural rewards:

 

Anhedonia to music and mu-opioids: Evidence from the administration of naltrexone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28176798

 

It is also indicated that endogenous opioids are necessary for both negative and positive emotions. I thought opioids suppress emotions but guess it isn't that simple.



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#400 Galaxyshock

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 06:28 AM

I'm afraid anhedonia is to some extent permanent disorder. There are treatments and many things can give relief, but the tendency to revert back to anhedonic self is always there.


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#401 MichaelTheAnhedonic

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 07:18 AM

I almost got L-DOPA from my neurologist. But she decided not to give me it yet because further diagnostic process must be made.



#402 jaiho

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 05:19 PM

We have a discord for anhedonia discussion if anyone is interested.

 

https://discord.gg/3Tn9R6A



#403 ThreeKings12341

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 11:25 AM

I thought Naltrexone only blocks drug reward but it seems that it also blocks natural rewards:

 

Anhedonia to music and mu-opioids: Evidence from the administration of naltrexone.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/28176798

 

It is also indicated that endogenous opioids are necessary for both negative and positive emotions. I thought opioids suppress emotions but guess it isn't that simple.

 

do you think low dose naltrexone for a short term (3 weeks) can cause musical anhedonia??



#404 Galaxyshock

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 11:14 AM

do you think low dose naltrexone for a short term (3 weeks) can cause musical anhedonia??

 

I guess it's possible based on the study but it should disappear on its own.



#405 ThreeKings12341

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:27 PM

I guess it's possible based on the study but it should disappear on its own.

 

 where did u read that it shuold disappear?

 

i asked u on discord also, how maca and kava was for your anhedonia? sustainable , dosage etc?



#406 Galaxyshock

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 10:31 AM

 where did u read that it shuold disappear?

 

i asked u on discord also, how maca and kava was for your anhedonia? sustainable , dosage etc?

 

Naltrexone would have to get trapped inside the receptor to cause that effect long term and I don't think it's possible.

 

Maca was like 30% relief and the effects lasted up to 3 months and then wear off. It's recommended to cycle off at times to prevent tolerance.

 

Kava is more of a recreational thing as its effects last only an hour or two with commercial Kava products. I have to take many times the recommended dose to get a high from it.



#407 gamesguru

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 12:52 AM

what about turmeric for glutamate inhibition and ginseng for TH and DBH downregulation?



#408 Galaxyshock

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 06:43 AM

what about turmeric for glutamate inhibition and ginseng for TH and DBH downregulation?

 

I got mild antidepressant effect from turmeric but not effective enough to decrease anhedonia.

 

Ginseng may be effective for negative schizo symptoms including flat affect:

http://vistaconnect....-schizophrenia/

 

Not sure how reliable source that is though, but I've found Ginseng effectively treat my anhedonia - but again something like 30-40 % reduction in symptoms.


Edited by Galaxyshock, 02 November 2018 - 06:43 AM.


#409 gamesguru

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 01:22 PM

I got mild antidepressant effect from turmeric but not effective enough to decrease anhedonia.

I've found Ginseng effectively treat my anhedonia - but again something like 30-40 % reduction in symptoms.

 

A lot of times with natural supplements, you don't get quite the same benefits but you also don't get nearly the same side effects... even if you end up stacking 3 or 4 insane natural remedies.  Try stacking Abilify with your Prozac, Xanax and Adderall and see what kind of side effects you have and see what kind of person you turn out :sleep:

 

Then only it [ginseng and turmeric] is effective for the negative symptoms (anhedonia, social withdrawal, flattened affect).  There may be more ingredients to toss in the mix here: phenylalanine, magnesium, calcium (for parvalbumin), low copper, high quality tea, potentially cycling bacopa and/or memantine, and also quercetin.

 

We in our internet erudition should caution against use in positive symptoms (psychosis, delusions, hallucinations, voices)[1][2].  See NCBI links 1 and 2 for case studies against this.  I believe a difference in individuals (specifically, variation as to the D2 and D5 polymorphic sites) would explain dreadful outcomes in such cases.  The response to negative or neutral symptoms is generally more favorable and immediate, so at least I have observed in my trials.


Edited by gamesguru, 02 November 2018 - 01:33 PM.


#410 Phoebus

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Posted 03 November 2018 - 02:31 PM

Anti-Convulsant Drug Ezogabine Reduces Major Depression Symptoms. Patients showed a 45% reduction in depression, a significant reduction in anhedonia, the inability to feel pleasure; and a significant increase in resilience. (eurekalert.org)

 

 

 

reeddit thread on it 

 

 

https://www.reddit.c..._reduces_major/


Edited by Phoebus, 03 November 2018 - 02:31 PM.

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#411 Hip

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 08:35 PM

Just discovered that glucuronolactone (a natural ingredient in some energy drinks) noticeably improves my anhedonia. See this thread.



#412 Rocket

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 01:48 PM

rosa damascena oil is supposed to help, with studies back up the claim. But where can anyone find ingestible product?



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#413 mono

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 03:44 AM

Hi all. I don't know if meditation has been properly discussed as a means to address mental health issues but I thought I would share a part of my experience with this.

 

I have been professionally diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder and as part of the negative symptoms of this disorder I do feel that I suffer from anhedonia amongst other things such as low motivation and low mood. It is quite seriously debilitating and as such even though I am psychosis free I remain unable to work at this time because of it.

 

I began meditating in 2010, so it has been close to 10 years now of practice and I wanted to share this here as I am getting significant and definite relief from my anhedonia and low mood, I wouldn't make a post otherwise. I have tried a lot of things for these symptoms like exercise, supplements, medications etc. but so far the deeper states of meditation is what I have found to provide profound relief.

 

The key here to finding healing is being able to go into a state of bliss, known as either samadhi (Hinduism) or Jhana (Buddhism) depending on which religion you go by. I don't know exactly how it all works, but finding true bliss in the deeper states of meditation can transfer into ones everyday life and provided a completely new sense of perspective with life again. I'm still working on cultivating this state but I have accessed the beginning stages of it and my mood and enjoyment with life has significantly changed and continues to improve.

 

I thought I would share this as I've seen a lot of posts saying I've tried everything etc, so I wanted to add that with a good bit of dedication and focus, the deeper states of meditation do provide profound healing and just learning to develop something like access concentration over a few years would not be enough.

 

I know it is an investment but if you can find that sort of enjoyment in the process of inner work it can truly make a difference, it just takes some persistence and knowing in what people have taught and experienced for eons.


Edited by mono, 14 October 2019 - 03:46 AM.

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#414 jacobjerondin

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 04:06 PM

Hi all. I don't know if meditation has been properly discussed as a means to address mental health issues but I thought I would share a part of my experience with this.

 

I have been professionally diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder and as part of the negative symptoms of this disorder I do feel that I suffer from anhedonia amongst other things such as low motivation and low mood. It is quite seriously debilitating and as such even though I am psychosis free I remain unable to work at this time because of it.

 

I began meditating in 2010, so it has been close to 10 years now of practice and I wanted to share this here as I am getting significant and definite relief from my anhedonia and low mood, I wouldn't make a post otherwise. I have tried a lot of things for these symptoms like exercise, supplements, medications etc. but so far the deeper states of meditation is what I have found to provide profound relief.

 

The key here to finding healing is being able to go into a state of bliss, known as either samadhi (Hinduism) or Jhana (Buddhism) depending on which religion you go by. I don't know exactly how it all works, but finding true bliss in the deeper states of meditation can transfer into ones everyday life and provided a completely new sense of perspective with life again. I'm still working on cultivating this state but I have accessed the beginning stages of it and my mood and enjoyment with life has significantly changed and continues to improve.

 

I thought I would share this as I've seen a lot of posts saying I've tried everything etc, so I wanted to add that with a good bit of dedication and focus, the deeper states of meditation do provide profound healing and just learning to develop something like access concentration over a few years would not be enough.

 

I know it is an investment but if you can find that sort of enjoyment in the process of inner work it can truly make a difference, it just takes some persistence and knowing in what people have taught and experienced for eons.

 

 

This looks a highly accessible and solid option, unlike most of the random supplements people are sharing which I am pretty sure are way too weak to make a difference in serious, physiological-based anhedonia.  No offense to the people sharing stuff meant at all, by all means keep the discussion going as maybe they will help someone but I don't feel like they're gonna be noticeable enough for most of us.

 

Do you have any recommendations on how to get into these kind of bliss-state meditation practices? I've been kind of interested in those for a while but a lot of the information out there is too new age "woo woo" for my taste - I know that's a big part of meditation in general but I still feel like a lot of stuff could be explained in a more practical, clear cut manner. Thanks in advance man!



#415 mono

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 06:15 PM

Sure I'm happy to share more about what I've learned so far.

 

I also thought it might help to post some studies relating to schizophrenia/mood disorders and loving-kindness (Metta) meditation.

 

"LKM may have potential for reducing negative symptoms such as anhedonia, avolition, and asociality while enhancing factors consistent with psychological recovery such as hope and purpose in life."

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19267396

 

"Loving-kindness meditation (LKM) is a traditional meditation practice directly oriented toward enhancing unconditional and positive emotional states of kindness towards oneself and others. We report here two independent and uncontrolled studies carried out at different centers, one in Boston, USA (n = 10), and one in Frankfurt, Germany (n = 8), to examine the potential therapeutic utility of a brief LKM group intervention for symptoms of dysthymia and depression. Results at both centers suggest that LKM was associated with large-sized effects on self-reported symptoms of depression (d = 3.33 and 1.90), negative affect (d = 1.98 and 0.92), and positive affect (d = 1.63 and 0.94). Large effects were also found for clinician-reported changes in depression, rumination and specific positive emotions, and moderate effects for changes in adaptive emotion regulation strategies. The qualitative data analyses provide additional support for the potential clinical utility of the intervention. This proof-of-concept evaluation of LKM as a clinical strategy warrants further investigation."

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4468348/

 

I feel the technique for doing this is quite simple even though it does take a bit of practice and time to get there. I'm no expert on all of this and I know there can be many variations on the whole process, so I will just tell my own experience and understanding. The main idea is to find something to focus on, I like to use the breath going in and out of my nostrils but it is possible to use visualisation, mantras etc as well as other areas of the body.

 

So once you have your awareness on something such as the breath going in and out of the nostrils, you just keep your focus on it. At first what most people find is that thoughts arise and distract the main focus on the breath, so then you have to work at becoming aware of when the thoughts arise and distract so you can guide the awareness back to the breath again. When you get good at this you get to a point where you remain focused on the breath continuously for minutes or even for hours at a time. When this happens and you remain focused on one single thing like the breath for a longer period of time the mind naturally deepens and starts to go into a trance like state and this is when the factors of absorption can start to arise known as Piti (pleasure) and sukha (joy) in Buddhism.

 

All you really have to do from there is stay focused and let the sensations grow until they become effortless and then you can naturally move into a transcendent state. Some people recommend switching the focus here from the breath onto the feelings of growing pleasure and I have found this helpful at times too. I think once you start to get pleasure and joy in your meditation the process becomes fairly natural and from there and you can start to find relief in your everyday life.

 

When I started to feel the first stages of bliss in my meditation I naturally switched from doing only focusing on my breath to cultivating emotions loving-kindness whilst also focusing on the breath. This seemed to naturally deepen the bliss for me and is how I started to transfer these restorative and healing emotions into my everyday life, as I also found that in meditation they can grow into states of pure ecstasy. For this it is also somewhat simple but getting the emotions to build and grow upon themselves can sometimes be difficult.

 

What I did to start loving-kindness meditation was to first focus on my breath like before and while already focusing on my breath I would begin to find thoughts within myself that I naturally had an affection towards. It can be anything really that gives you a sense of gratitude or appreciation. For me it was my desire to connect with what I feel is God and the love I have for what I feel God is. I just focused upon these feelings and adjusted them a little until I felt the sense of a positive emotion arise. Then I practiced getting this positive feeling to arise more often and regularly until I could hold the feeling as a continuous state for a number of seconds or minutes and then longer. From there it sort of became a natural feeling in order to make them go even deeper than that, and then the piti and sukha once again begin to arise. 

 

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions I can try to answer them as I'm happy to try and help or encourage others to try this as it has been a real key in my healing journey.


Edited by mono, 14 October 2019 - 06:25 PM.

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#416 pamojja

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 06:58 PM

Gradual and basic meditation instructions by Achan Brahms I really can recommend for getting started: https://bswa.org/tea...on-ajahn-brahm/


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: anhedonia, depression, attention, l-dopa, ssre, adaptogen, quetiapine, consummatory anhedonia

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