18 replies to this topic

[spirilla01]

Hi all,
being a long time lurker here and learned a bunch about diet, supplementation. Turning 40,
my hair is beginning to thin on my forehead, but I´m somewhat confused about what would be a decent strategy moving forwards.
My diet is pretty healthy with a lot of veggies, Olive oil, Avocados, some fish and meat. Only thing is that enjoy a 1/2 bottle of red wine every night. I do consume 1 liter of 1 grade sencha tee to.
As for supplementation, my daily regimen consists of (pretty much the same as sillewater suggest in his exellent blog)
Vitamin D3 2500
Vitamin MK-7 90mcg
Urbiquinol 50mg
Lithium 1mcg

Lysine 500 mg before every meal

Time released Melatonin at night 2mg

exercise cardio 2x week
weight lifting 3x week

I´m a little in dark as how to adress my hair thinning, but if possible would prefer to avoid the harter drugs like finasteride.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[nowayout]

A few suggestions that are mostly free of side effects:

2% ketokonazole shampoo (Nizoral) has some evidence supporting its use for hair loss.

Topical Bimatoprost may help.

Minoxidil.

[spirilla01]

thanks for the sound advice, will probably try the Nizoral shampoo along with monoxidil.
Would biosil have any effect ?

[JohnD60]

I use 2% Niz in the crown (believe it or not it is prescription, but the 1% is otc, wth?)
and 5% minoxidil, primarily in the crown but sometimes also the temples.
Both together only cost about $10/month.
I take all those supplements (except the Lysine), and more, but not because of the hair.
I don't take any supplements just for the hair.

I would suggest you have your blood tested for DHT concentration.

eta: funny, I type one post with some code word like DHT, minoxidil or Niz, and the ad at the top of the page changes to 'hair club for men'

Edited by JohnD60, 14 December 2012 - 04:12 AM.

[MrHappy]

Have you been reading the c60 + olive oil thread? A few people have regrown hair from that protocol, so far..

[scottknl]

I eat a herb called HeShouWu in chinese or fo-ti in the west. It prevents my hair from falling out when combined with a good diet. Also prevents graying for me. I take 15 g / day with my morning oatmeal.

[spirilla01]

Hi all,
thanks for all the advice, will try with to my hands on some 2% Niz. and 5% Minoxidil. Sounds interesting with fo-ti, gonna check that out ofr sure. As for the c60-oo, I not quite there yet, as its seems a bit risky, but def. something to watch.
Thanks again

[JBForrester]

I'm surprised everyone keeps recommending minoxidil considering it decreases collagen production:

http://link.springer...0200483?LI=true


Maybe ladies who use it notice it's negative effects more than the guys who use it?

[Logic]

Asperin & caffeine

http://www.longecity...r-rejuvenation/

http://www.longecity...n-for-hairloss/

[JLL]

Not much evidence for biotin, but some, so I'm taking 5 mg myself these days.

Biotin Goes Back on the Menu

An examination of the effect of biotin on alopecia and hair quality.

The effect of a daily oral dose of 2,5 mg biotin was studied in 93 patients with the symptoms hair-loss (mostly androgenetic alopecia) and reduced hair quality. The mean duration of treatment was 7,9 +/- 2,8 months. An obvious improvement of hair-loss was reported in 64%, and a slight improvement in 9%. Hair quality was clearly improved in 70% and slightly in 12%. Brittle finger nails as an additional complaint were improved in 80%. If alopecia, decreased hair quality and brittle finger nails occurred in combination, improvement was observed frequently collectively. The study allows - as already shown in a previous investigation concerning brittle finger nails - to suggest biotin as an effective and well tolerated therapy in cases of alopecia and decreased hair quality.

I'd also give soy isoflavones a go, especially combined with capsaicin:
Soy Isoflavones Grow Hair by Increasing IGF-1 in the Skin

Capsaicin and Soy Isoflavones Promote Hair Growth

Getting retinoids onto your scalp may be challenging, but possibly quite effective:

Topical Retinoids Increase Hair Growth in Most People


Zinc pyrithione shampoos are an option, but ketoconazole is more effective -- even more effective than minoxidil in fact, so if you're worried about decreased collagen, maybe skip the minoxidil altogether.

A couple of tablespoons of flax meal per day may help too:

Do Flax Lignans Reduce Hair Loss from MPB?

Over a six-month period, 10 men, between the ages of 20 and 70 and in varying stages of AGA, consumed one 250 mg capsule of LinumLife EXTRA. Photographs were used to document hair loss conditions at the beginning of the study. At the end of the test period, eight men reported modest improvement of their hair loss condition, one reported much improvement and one subject reported no effect. Initial effects were noticed, on average, within one to two months of starting supplementation with flax lignans and no side effects were reported. Throughout the study, the daily number of hairs lost decreased and 50 percent of subjects noticed a decrease in oil secretion in their scalp. More noticeable improvements were noted in subjects with more severe conditions of AGA.

[niner]

I'm surprised everyone keeps recommending minoxidil considering it decreases collagen production:

http://link.springer...0200483?LI=true

Maybe ladies who use it notice it's negative effects more than the guys who use it?

Maybe people recommend it because it works and no one but you seems to think it has a noticeable effect on collagen. That experiment is in vitro, and the cells were continuously bathed in high concentrations of minoxidil. The relevance to humans is highly questionable. In vitro experiments have two purposes. One is to provide mechanistic clues for biochemists, and the other is to provide fodder for Internet myths. Show me an effect on collagen in a live mammal from topical minoxidil use, and I will happily eat my words.

[nowayout]

Soy isoflavones and flax lignans can cause hormonal and sexual problems in men (which effects are probably related to their purported beneficial effect on hair loss), so I would personally stay away from them.

[JBForrester]

I'm surprised everyone keeps recommending minoxidil considering it decreases collagen production:

http://link.springer...0200483?LI=true

Maybe ladies who use it notice it's negative effects more than the guys who use it?

Maybe people recommend it because it works and no one but you seems to think it has a noticeable effect on collagen. That experiment is in vitro, and the cells were continuously bathed in high concentrations of minoxidil. The relevance to humans is highly questionable. In vitro experiments have two purposes. One is to provide mechanistic clues for biochemists, and the other is to provide fodder for Internet myths. Show me an effect on collagen in a live mammal from topical minoxidil use, and I will happily eat my words.

Niner, I would show you my face in photos after 4-5 months of the strongest formula 2xdaily, and perhaps you would eat your words. At 25 being told one day that you look 19 and the next day literally having someone ask you if you are 35+ is a very odd thing to happen normally. Perhaps I'm an anomaly because I have extremely fair and sensitive skin. Even though the study is not in vivo, I can attest to it's potential damage, and I still think it's fair to put that warning out there so at least people can be aware of potential consequences.

Unfortunately, I don't know you well enough to send such photos to you, and I'm not about to paste that face all over the world wide web.

[JLL]

Soy isoflavones and flax lignans can cause hormonal and sexual problems in men (which effects are probably related to their purported beneficial effect on hair loss), so I would personally stay away from them.

All I've seen is evidence that it they are beneficial (e.g. reduce prostate cancer risk). I know soy gets thrashed a lot around the internet, but do you have studies showing isoflavones / lignans are harmful?


Soy Isoflavones Reduce DHT, Increase Testosterone

Soy isoflavones significantly reduced DHT levels and increased testosterone levels in male rats. An intake of 3.3 mg of isoflavones per day was the most effective of the three treatments tested.

Soy Protein Isolate Reduces DHT in Healthy Young Men

Serum DHT was significantly reduced following the consumption of both a low-isoflavone and high-isoflavone soy protein isolate compared to a milk protein isolate. The reductions were 9.4% and 15%, respectively. The DHT/testosterone ratio was also decreased by 9.0% and 14%, respectively.

Do Flax Lignans Reduce Hair Loss from MPB?

A randomized, double-blind clinical trial compared the effects of various doses (300 mg and 600 mg) of SDG on symptoms of BPH. This study found that levels of enterolactone and enteroldiol were significantly raised after supplementation, while prostate size was reduced (link). Notably, the authors conclude that the improvements in urinary symptoms from SDG were similar to those from androgen receptor blockers and more effective than 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors.

[niner]

Niner, I would show you my face in photos after 4-5 months of the strongest formula 2xdaily, and perhaps you would eat your words. At 25 being told one day that you look 19 and the next day literally having someone ask you if you are 35+ is a very odd thing to happen normally. Perhaps I'm an anomaly because I have extremely fair and sensitive skin. Even though the study is not in vivo, I can attest to it's potential damage, and I still think it's fair to put that warning out there so at least people can be aware of potential consequences.

I'm sorry that you had to go through that experience, which sounds pretty awful. The problem is that you don't really know it was the minoxidil that caused it, only that these events happened around the same time. If the minoxidil did cause it, you don't know if it was a collagen effect; maybe you're allergic to something in minoxidil?

The only in vivo paper I could find on minoxidil and its effect on collagen is this one:

J Cardiovasc Pharmacol. 1998 Jun;31(6):960-2.
Arterial vasodilation and vascular connective tissue changes in spontaneously hypertensive rats.
Tsoporis J, Keeley FW, Lee RM, Leenen FH.

Hypertension Unit, University of Ottawa Heart Institute, Ontario, Canada.

Arterial hypertrophy in response to hypertension includes increases in the connective tissue proteins elastin and collagen. Regression of arterial hypertrophy depends not only on blood pressure normalization but also on the specific antihypertensive treatment. Consequently, each drug class may exert an influence on connective tissue proteins. We evaluated the arterial connective tissue response of 16-week-old spontaneously hypertensive rats (SHRs) to treatment with minoxidil, 120 mg/L, drinking water for 10 weeks. Despite a decrease in blood pressure, minoxidil had no effect on arterial weight or collagen content but increased elastin content in the abdominal aorta, renal, and superior mesenteric arteries. The increase in elastin content in the abdominal aorta and superior mesenteric artery was accompanied by a decrease in tissue elastase activity. Thus the minoxidil-induced increase in arterial elastin content may be related to a direct effect of the drug to decrease elastase activity in these tissues.

PMID: 9641483

So if anything, it sounds like minoxidil should improve skin quality, if it increases elastin and has no effect on collagen. Realistically, I wouldn't expect any systemic effects from topical application of minoxidil. It doesn't have a significant effect on blood pressure when used topically, and since it was originally a medicine for hypertension, that was the first thing they looked at.

[nowayout]

Soy isoflavones and flax lignans can cause hormonal and sexual problems in men (which effects are probably related to their purported beneficial effect on hair loss), so I would personally stay away from them.

All I've seen is evidence that it they are beneficial (e.g. reduce prostate cancer risk). I know soy gets thrashed a lot around the internet, but do you have studies showing isoflavones / lignans are harmful?


Soy Isoflavones Reduce DHT, Increase Testosterone

Soy isoflavones significantly reduced DHT levels and increased testosterone levels in male rats. An intake of 3.3 mg of isoflavones per day was the most effective of the three treatments tested.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that reducing DHT is generally a good thing.

The studies you quote actually support the anecdotal evidence that soy and flax can cause problems in men. While nobody is going to invest in doing these side effect studies for soy and flax, prostate (and hair loss) drugs that reduce DHT, such as finasteride and dutasteride, are well-known to cause problems with libido and erections in many men, as well as gynecomastia in some.

[JBForrester]

Niner, I would show you my face in photos after 4-5 months of the strongest formula 2xdaily, and perhaps you would eat your words. At 25 being told one day that you look 19 and the next day literally having someone ask you if you are 35+ is a very odd thing to happen normally. Perhaps I'm an anomaly because I have extremely fair and sensitive skin. Even though the study is not in vivo, I can attest to it's potential damage, and I still think it's fair to put that warning out there so at least people can be aware of potential consequences.

I'm sorry that you had to go through that experience, which sounds pretty awful. The problem is that you don't really know it was the minoxidil that caused it, only that these events happened around the same time. If the minoxidil did cause it, you don't know if it was a collagen effect; maybe you're allergic to something in minoxidil?

The only in vivo paper I could find on minoxidil and its effect on collagen is this one:

J Cardiovasc Pharmacol. 1998 Jun;31(6):960-2.
Arterial vasodilation and vascular connective tissue changes in spontaneously hypertensive rats.
Tsoporis J, Keeley FW, Lee RM, Leenen FH.

Hypertension Unit, University of Ottawa Heart Institute, Ontario, Canada.

Arterial hypertrophy in response to hypertension includes increases in the connective tissue proteins elastin and collagen. Regression of arterial hypertrophy depends not only on blood pressure normalization but also on the specific antihypertensive treatment. Consequently, each drug class may exert an influence on connective tissue proteins. We evaluated the arterial connective tissue response of 16-week-old spontaneously hypertensive rats (SHRs) to treatment with minoxidil, 120 mg/L, drinking water for 10 weeks. Despite a decrease in blood pressure, minoxidil had no effect on arterial weight or collagen content but increased elastin content in the abdominal aorta, renal, and superior mesenteric arteries. The increase in elastin content in the abdominal aorta and superior mesenteric artery was accompanied by a decrease in tissue elastase activity. Thus the minoxidil-induced increase in arterial elastin content may be related to a direct effect of the drug to decrease elastase activity in these tissues.

PMID: 9641483

So if anything, it sounds like minoxidil should improve skin quality, if it increases elastin and has no effect on collagen. Realistically, I wouldn't expect any systemic effects from topical application of minoxidil. It doesn't have a significant effect on blood pressure when used topically, and since it was originally a medicine for hypertension, that was the first thing they looked at.

Perhaps you are right. But you could be wrong. Neither of us will ever truly know I guess, unless they had 100 clones of myself and did studies on me. Initially, when this happened, I thought that it could have been a form of hypotension, as I already had significantly low blood pressure (yet in range) prior to it's use. However, I got tested during the acute stage of my symptoms, and my blood pressure remained the same. The interesting thing is that as soon as I stopped using the Rogaine, about a week out my symptoms seemed to improve tremendously. I changed no other part of my daily regime except for that. I am not back to the same yet, and I doubt I will ever really be. The thing with clinical trials, for anything to be of certainty and to make truly supported claims, the same tests need to be done over and over again yielding the same results. So unless we find 10+ other reports on Rogaine and it's effects on Collagen, whether positive or negative, nothing will be certain. I can only use my intution on such things based on a process of elimination (and I'd say I made a good first elimination guess considering my rapid recovery after ceasing it's use).

[catrinac]

You may benefit from reading the Danny Roddy Weblog:
http://www.dannyroddy.com/

Click on "unconventional guides" for a link to an e-book about hair loss.

[Luminosity]

One thing is if the sencha tea is iced, drop that. In Chinese medicine, iced drinks are bad for you. 1/2 bottle of wine doesn't sound good for you, although it isn't associated with hair loss to be honest.