94 replies to this topic

[NZT48_User]

Since you're in Houston, maybe you would want to get in touch with one of the researchers directly and find out more info like the dose they used on the study. They are at Bayor College of Medicine.

Nah. Too much trouble, I think.

[LBGSHI]

I have indeed seen studies which established an inverse relationship between memory and intelligence. In other words, the majority of people with eidetic memory capabilities seem to have lower than average intelligence, and the majority of geniuses seem to have lower than average long-term memory capabilities.

Edited by LBGSHI, 13 December 2012 - 08:03 PM.

[NZT48_User]

Fo sho.

[LBGSHI]

That being said, even if a supplement could give you a perfectly functioning, eidetic memory at the cost of decreased cognitive ability, it would still be useful from time to time in studying or absorbing information, after which you could halt supplementation and put your new knowledge to work

[lifebuddy]

Kim Peak: interesting story, thanks for the heads up. I've just spent an hour reading about him.

[samiamm]

That being said, even if a supplement could give you a perfectly functioning, eidetic memory at the cost of decreased cognitive ability, it would still be useful from time to time in studying or absorbing information, after which you could halt supplementation and put your new knowledge to work

I think it'd be more difficult then that.

[NZT48_User]

Memory is just one task out of many preformed by the brain. By the way, it's a complete myth that we only use 20% of our brains. We use ALL OF IT at different times and at different strengths. The brain's like an instrument, always creating music. If you pressed a single key or all the keys at once, it would sound very ugly. I just wish people would stop playing rap. lol

[samiamm]

Why man?? some rap is really good,


like Renegade - ft. eminem (skip to eminems part)


Dead wrong- Biggie ft. eminem


All of the old Jay-Z


You just gotta find the ones whose lyrics go over your head for a second

[NZT48_User]

Sorry dude. Lyrics about hoes and shooting up does not go over my head. Ever heard the term "Garbage in garbage out?" Your just abusing your mind with ignorance and foolishness. I also know a few toddlers who can make that kind of music with some Elmo keyboards.

Ever listen to real music?

The best music doesn't need lyrics.

Yes, I understand this generation loves rap music and I'm the minority. Intelligence is running scarce as well. I weep for the next generation.

[lifebuddy]

Oh my - the "real music" brigade has arrived. This thread is going nowhere now. I'm sorry, but Bach is just as "real" as rap.

[samiamm]

Sorry dude. Lyrics about hoes and shooting up does not go over my head. Ever heard the term "Garbage in garbage out?" Your just abusing your mind with ignorance and foolishness. I also know a few toddlers who can make that kind of music with some Elmo keyboards.

Ever listen to real music?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPqJ6gDEgqU
The best music doesn't need lyrics.

Yes, I understand this generation loves rap music and I'm the minority. Intelligence is running scarce as well. I weep for the next generation.

Yeah, I don't think it's ignorance, I think you're just being narrow-minded, lol.


I absolutely love the piano, I'm actually taking lessons. There is a lot more to rap then hos and shooting, you're just not looking right



Anyways, back to the topic of the thread, there are not many PKR inhibitors, are there?


Also, do we have an animal model, besides that rat study, of PKR inhibition?

[NZT48_User]

I'm surprised how few studies I've seen of PKR inhibitors(PKRi).

I remember hearing about another memory enhancing drug that was discovered in the 70's or something. It increased short-term memory from around 7 to 20 digits or more. But it's 2012, and it's completely fallen off the grid. The government is probably keeping it for themselves. That would explain how they can screw the public with such speed and precision. Of course, maybe the side effects turned out to be too strong.
Does anyone know which drug I'm talking about?

Who knows. The same thing might happen to PKRi.

Edited by NZT48_User, 15 December 2012 - 01:36 AM.

[LBGSHI]

The brain's like an instrument, always creating music. If you pressed a single key or all the keys at once, it would sound very ugly. I just wish people would stop playing rap. lol

Why man?? some rap is really good,

You just gotta find the ones whose lyrics go over your head for a second

Sorry dude. Lyrics about hoes and shooting up does not go over my head. Ever heard the term "Garbage in garbage out?" Your just abusing your mind with ignorance and foolishness. I also know a few toddlers who can make that kind of music with some Elmo keyboards.

Ever listen to real music?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPqJ6gDEgqU
The best music doesn't need lyrics.

Yes, I understand this generation loves rap music and I'm the minority. Intelligence is running scarce as well. I weep for the next generation.

Oh my - the "real music" brigade has arrived. This thread is going nowhere now. I'm sorry, but Bach is just as "real" as rap.

Yeah, I don't think it's ignorance, I think you're just being narrow-minded, lol.


I absolutely love the piano, I'm actually taking lessons. There is a lot more to rap then hos and shooting, you're just not looking right

Bringing the thread back off-topic, I'd like to say the following:

1. Music should stimulate the mind, completely aside from its fleeting entertainment value. I believe that is what NZT48_User is alluding to when he refers to 'real music'.
2. Potentially, rap could stimulate verbal components of the mind, thus there is the possibility of it being 'real music' in that sense. Certainly, I have heard rap that is impressive linguistically, and fairly complex.
3. On the whole, however, rap does not do this.
4. Rap does, on the other hand, generally contain degrading, violent, criminal, and immoral content.
5. The fact that there are a few exceptions to this generality, within the fragment of rap that is even possible to air on radio or television because it doesn't go as far as the remainder, does not make the point less valid.
6. Classical music, or Western classic music as we know it, was borne of (and is representative of) an amazing civilization, with wondrous works of art, impressive technology, and moral and intrinsically human values (setting aside the massive wars it was periodically engaged in).
7. Rap music was borne of and reminiscence of (and representative of) bongo drums and primitive, rhythmic ceremony, from civilization that can scarcely be called such, which never even invented the wheel.
8. Intentionally pretending to be aggressive, and intentionally using improper grammar and pronunciation, does not endear anyone intelligent to a particular music. One could say much the same of rock, and I wouldn't disagree. Rock has a slightly higher level of complexity than most rap (considerably higher, on occasion), and does in general contain less explicit, less criminal, less degrading, and less immoral lyrics...but as far as its musical value goes, it's still a far cry from classical music. It is also basically garbage by comparison.

Edited by LBGSHI, 15 December 2012 - 04:32 PM.

[trance]

Relatively old news that listening to classical, especially baroque style, or mathematically based, music has some bearing on intelligence & learning. Known back in the day as "The Mozart Effect"; it has garnered some controversy though.

Rauscher et al. reported that listening to ten minutes of Mozart's music increased the abstract reasoning ability of college students, as measured by IQ scores, by 8 or 9 points compared with listening to relaxation instructions or silence, respectively. This startling finding became known as the 'Mozart effect', and has since been explored by several research groups.

Lots of current links on this article's page and elsewhere:

http://pss.sagepub.c.../10/4/370.short

[NZT48_User]

Sure, humans love to be stimulated, and rap certainly is stimulating. But is today's music stimulating in the right way? Does it inspire the building of character and values?

Classical music is a great tool for both stimulation and meditation. Meditation is an act of calming the mind and resolving inner conflict. Doing this provides the means necessary for a greater control of the mind's faculties. Studies show that Buddhists practitioners of meditation show exceptionally higher levels of brain activity.

http://www.washingto...6-2005Jan2.html

If you really want to enhance brain power, instead of looking for drugs, look first to yourself, and to your habits and lifestyle.

[abelard lindsay]

If you really want to enhance brain power, instead of looking for drugs, look first to yourself, and to your habits and lifestyle.

Regardless, did Zi Cao increase your memory or not? Did it do anything at all?

[NZT48_User]

It feels like my brain processes information much faster. I watch mystery shows all the time, and it usually just ends up confusing me until I finally get the answer. Then all of a sudden, I'm creating a dozen theories and solving it half way through. Maybe it's the the ZI Cao, and maybe it's my awsome stack. The more chaos there is, the faster my brain works. I love it! Although, when I watch anime mystery, it's still hard to memorize all the strange names. lol

I would not say I have super memory though.
If anyone is keeping up with my stack, I added tryptophan (good to pair with full-spectrum light bulbs for increased serotonin production). I now sleep like a baby.
Please don't overdose people.

[stablemind]

It feels like my brain processes information much faster. I watch mystery shows all the time, and it usually just ends up confusing me until I finally get the answer. Then all of a sudden, I'm creating a dozen theories and solving it half way through. Maybe it's the the ZI Cao, and maybe it's my awsome stack. The more chaos there is, the faster my brain works. I love it! Although, when I watch anime mystery, it's still hard to memorize all the strange names. lol

I would not say I have super memory though.
If anyone is keeping up with my stack, I added tryptophan (good to pair with full-spectrum light bulbs for increased serotonin production). I now sleep like a baby.
Please don't overdose people.

Tryptophan shouldn't make that much of a difference. Maybe it is the Zi Cao?

I really wish Imminist would fund a project involving PKR inhibitors, this seems like it has potential. Does anyone know why we don't crowd fund these types of projects? Although the PKR Inhibitors seem pretty expensive, the method of delivery may make it much more affordable.

I contacted the researchers asking for the abstract so we can maybe find out the dosage used. I hope they get back.

Edited by stablemind, 17 December 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[NZT48_User]

Tryptophan shouldn't make that much of a difference. Maybe it is the Zi Cao?

I really wish Imminist would fund a project involving PKR inhibitors, this seems like it has potential. Does anyone know why we don't crowd fund these types of projects? Although the PKR Inhibitors seem pretty expensive, the method of delivery may make it much more affordable.

I contacted the researchers asking for the abstract so we can maybe find out the dosage used. I hope they get back.

Tryptophan makes all the difference in the world for me(in terms of sleep), but probably won't make a huge difference for other people. Somehow, I'm now going for days without supplementing, but I'm still left with the increased mental agility. I think the Zi Cao is a major factor, but the rest of my stack definitely helps too.

That's cool that your taking initiative for that abstract.

[renfr]

Tryptophan shouldn't make that much of a difference. Maybe it is the Zi Cao?

I really wish Imminist would fund a project involving PKR inhibitors, this seems like it has potential. Does anyone know why we don't crowd fund these types of projects? Although the PKR Inhibitors seem pretty expensive, the method of delivery may make it much more affordable.

I contacted the researchers asking for the abstract so we can maybe find out the dosage used. I hope they get back.

Tryptophan makes all the difference in the world for me(in terms of sleep), but probably won't make a huge difference for other people. Somehow, I'm now going for days without supplementing, but I'm still left with the increased mental agility. I think the Zi Cao is a major factor, but the rest of my stack definitely helps too.

That's cool that your taking initiative for that abstract.

Aren't you scared of the cytotoxic effects of Zi Cao? Have you tried leaving it away during a week and see if there is a drop in your cognitive abilities?
Btw since you work in a medical center, probably you should do some research on the compound (the PKR imidazolo-oxindole), if it is proven to be non-toxic and with no major side effects it could be very interesting. This might be the master nootropic we're all looking for.
I looked up for seller, prices are ridiculously high and we don't even know the dosage.
Btw is this the same stuff? http://www.ktbotanic...ms-p-14403.html

Yeah, I don't think it's ignorance, I think you're just being narrow-minded, lol.


I absolutely love the piano, I'm actually taking lessons. There is a lot more to rap then hos and shooting, you're just not looking right

I don't agree. Most of rap songs talk about gangs, violence, cult of crime, money, sex and prostitution in other terms rap is a byproduct of mainstream hedonist culture. But I could say that for a lot of other songs, which are not made by pleasure but just for profit and therefore most of those songs (especially rap) are musically poor.
I don't disagree with capitalism, it's the law of supply and demand and I respect it, the day people reject this kind of music, it will be replaced and I hope it will be replaced by better music.
In comparison, classical music represents the highest point of our civilization, it is very well structured and complex and you feel it when you hear it.
Also it is good for studying, overall Bach music which is proven to stimulate alpha wave production. (60 beats per minute)
Of course there are some classical music composers who fail at doing great pieces such as Webern...

Edited by renfr, 18 December 2012 - 01:37 AM.

[NZT48_User]

Yeah. Arnebia euchroma root is also known as Gromwell Root and Zi Cao.
Zi Cao can certainly be toxic if taken in high enough doses.

[renfr]

hmm according to the studies, cytotoxicity is only directed against tumors and not healthy cells which turns in fact to be a good thing.
However is it possible that prolonged inhibition of tumor necrosis factor alpha upregulates the factor and therefore increase the risk of tumor?
Seems to be a good thing but I guess it is very important to take a lot of antioxidants (vitamin C in particular) as PKR is an antiviral agent and its inhibition could be deadly.

As for Zi Cao, there's something important that should be know, there are two plants known as Zi Cao : Lithospermum erythrorhizon and Arnebia euchroma
They seem to be of the same species and contain the shikonin compound (naphtoquinones), whether its concentration is different or not is another question but the study seems to focus on the lithospermum.

Edited by renfr, 18 December 2012 - 11:41 AM.

[renfr]

I researched a little bit on shikonin and it seems that pure Zi Cao contains generally at least 30% of shikonin which is a fair amount.
However there is something scary about shikonin, it can inhibit fertility at least that's what I could find and I couldn't find any memory boosting effects in chinese medicine literature.

Btw, I just ordered some Zi Cao from there : http://www.ancientwa...roducts_id=4278
Intl shipping is only $10 there! I will try it out and see what it does.

Edited by renfr, 18 December 2012 - 02:38 PM.

[NZT48_User]

According to the basic logic principles, Zi Cao should boost memory.
Zi Cao contains shikonin ---> shikonin inhibits PKR ---> PKR inhibitors boost memory. (All three points have been proven in studies)
Therefore, Zi Cao boosts memory.

I think it would be difficult to detect memory improvement in rat studies unless the experiment specifically called for the memory identification protocol. Someone could always try Zi Cao on their own mouse, although I think it would be a poor excuse for a study.

Shipping for Zi Cao is $5 at amazon.

[abelard lindsay]

According to the basic logic principles, Zi Cao should boost memory.
Zi Cao contains shikonin ---> shikonin inhibits PKR ---> PKR inhibitors boost memory. (All three points have been proven in studies)
Therefore, Zi Cao boosts memory.

I think it would be difficult to detect memory improvement in rat studies unless the experiment specifically called for the memory identification protocol. Someone could always try Zi Cao on their own mouse, although I think it would be a poor excuse for a study.

Shipping for Zi Cao is $5 at amazon.

How much Zi Cao did you take? How often did you take it?

[kevinseven11]

If there is gaba downregulation then it must be a gaba agonist. The reason people would take a gaba antagonist is to improve thier mempory forthe long term. Is this herb able to be ethanol extracted?

[NZT48_User]

How much Zi Cao did you take? How often did you take it?

I just take about 500mg once a day.

[NZT48_User]

If there is gaba downregulation then it must be a gaba agonist. The reason people would take a gaba antagonist is to improve thier mempory forthe long term. Is this herb able to be ethanol extracted?

It's not a GABA agonist. It acts indirectly on the gaba receptors. Taking straight up GABA antagonists for the heck of it is not a good idea.

[kevinseven11]

So what your doing you recommend not doing?
Anyways if anyone is avid about obtaining this chemical you can synthesize it in 6 steps http://www.sciencedi...04040391200857X

Or take 10g max of Zi Cao but overdose is from liver problems. Also its not recommended to be consumed anymore. Perhaps additional compounds are bad for the body. Any other plants contain this compound?

[NZT48_User]

So what your doing you recommend not doing?

Shikonin from Zi Cao is not a GABA antagonist, which you would know if you could actually read.