20 replies to this topic

[heymazing]

Hi All!

First of all forgive me if I posted in the wrong place. This topic seems to relate to EVERY sub forum I like
to read in Longecity – so I just posted where hopefully the most people with knowledge and experience
will read and respond.

I am a woman, mid-thirties, entrepreneur (starting my own online business), currently living abroad (Central
america where certain pharms are easy to get).

So my basic question to you all is: What possible bad interactions could I be overlooking in my stack,
and/or, is it ok to go ahead with things?


*****PRE-AMBLE / BACKGROUND INFO. REAL QUESTIONS BELOW******

My “issues”:

ADD – the kind that either makes you hyperfocus like a mo-fo, or feel completely overwhelmed and

unable to process anything with more than 3 steps. It’s been a relief to read that others have this type

of ADD, because the hyperfocusing can really throw you off track with diagnosis. My biggest struggle

and what I want to accomplish) in this area is the ability to flow smoothely from task to task. It’s almost

like once I've decided to think about one thing, my brain refuses to then move on to the next thing. As

you can imagine, fluidity from task to task is quite important when starting a business!

There’s something more: I am really good at imagining the big picture of something. I am quite the “idea

girl”. But it’s the nitty gritty of a thousand different details that can really throw me off task. Whenever I ask

my brain to process and accomplish projects with many different steps and components, that’s when I really

feel my ADD and get frustrated / overwhelmed.

So my strenghts are single-minded focus (on ONE thing) and big picture vision. What I want to increase: My

ability to flow from task to task and to easily process and tackle (prioritize, organize, efficiently accomplish)

tasks with many different components and steps. There must be a word for this type of thinking?

As it is, I make step-by-step lists for the most basic and inane things to help my brain from feeling

overwhelmed (I even make lists of what lists to make! Ack!). I would like my brain to just do this easily on

its own!

Depression / Self esteem. There’s really no truly justifiable reason for this. I’ve always been an attractive

person with a lot of friends…But with an underlying depressive tendencies and lack of self esteem that seem

to sabotage me. I think it must be brain chemistry and/or perhaps certain childhood memories. I have no

reason to feel depressed, but feeling depressed has indeed given me reasons to ACTUALLY feel depressed

(if that makes any sense). That is to say - not life, not my circumstances, but my very own self is my own worst

enemy… I want to start being my own best friend! :D

So those are my “issues”. Maybe I’m a lot like most creative/entrepreneur types. I want to be able to easily & adeptly
handle a lot of projects and tasks, as efficiently as possible, and feel GOOD about myself and my venture, full of energy
and MOTIVATED to keep moving on towards my inevitable success!

My goals are: Improved cognition, improved mood/motivation/self esteem…and, being a woman, anti-aging and beauty
;D I tell you this just to explain my stack.

Since I was recently diagnosed with ADD and had a pretty flexible doctor, I have several things to try out. I also now live
in a Central American country (living cheaply while I get my bidniss off the ground), so I have bought a few other things
I've read about on this very forum!

Basic supplement stack that I am currently taking:

***emtpy stomach***

Alpha Lipoic Acid – 100 mg per day. Anti Aging & ADD
L-Carnosine – 500 mg per day. Anti Aging & ADD
Alcar - 500 mg per day. Anti Aging & ADD

***with food***

Vinpocetine - 10-20 mg daily. Focus / ADD
Magnesium Asporotate – 400 mg. Antiaging, general health.
Zinc (the kind you get at the supermarket) – 50mg. ADD.
Fish oil. 4000-5000 mg. Mood, anti aging, brain health, ADD, everything.
L-Theanine – 100-600mg per day. I “pop” these throughout the day for general well being and anti-anxiety because
I feel an immediate effect.

MSM – 3000 – 6000 mg. For hair / skin/ nails / joint health.
Once Daily Multivitamin (Rainbow light Woman’s One) – General health.
Evening Primrose oil – 1500 mg. for hormonal balance / PMS symptoms
Vitex Angus Castus. 400 mg – for hormonal balance / PMS symptoms
Mangosteen – 900 mg- Antioxidant (for mild eczema)

ADD & Depression Meds that I currently own & want advice on

Ritalin - 5mg. I have 20mg pills, and I cut them into quarters. I can take up to 2 quarters (10 mg) per day, but even
that feels a bit much. I’ve decided that I can only take Ritalin when I have ALREADY decided what to focus on. If I take
Ritalin before deciding my focus, I will start hyperfocusing on some random thing. Actually, since I have been diagnosed
a month ago, I have pretty much stopped taking it. It feels too much like I am “on a drug”. I also hate the depressive
crashes in the evening. HOWEVER I am open to suggestions from people as to good combinations to avoid the crash
and mitigate the hyperfocus tendencies. Also, it really doesn’t help my main ADD problem: Organizing multi-faceted
projects in my mind and moving easily from task to task. But maybe in combination…?

Adderall. Ok, I just put this here for the sake of being thorough, but I only took it 3 times. OMG can you say hyperfocus
zombie? If anybody has a suggestion as to how to reap benefits from Adderall without turning into Rainman, I am open…

(Here’s where we start to get interesting…)

Tianeptine (Stablon). 12.5 mg caps. After reading all sorts of things about Tianeptine (mainly on this forum), I decided
I just had to try it. And since I can just get it over the counter here, that’s what I did! Could it really be the answer to
depression and ADD all wrapped up in one? I have only taken it a few times, so I can't give detailed feedback…accept
that it did seem to give a mild feeling of wellbeing. But again, I took it once, so that could be placebo, etc.

NOTES: Some have said that it combines amazingly with Selegeline (Deprenyl). Some say that Selegiline / Tianeptine
would be a bad combo. Some also say that it is “notoriously under dosed”, so that to really get the effect one would
have to take much higher doses than the recommended 12.5mg 3x/day.

Selegiline (Deprenyl). 5mg caps. I also got this thanks to threads that I have read here in Longecity, and addforums.
I have been taking this for about a week, but sadly off and on (sorry, I have ADD!).

I just can't seem to decide on how to “test” all of these different components. All at once? (probably not). Gradually
introduce them one by one?

What I can say about Selegiline so far is that it is SUBTLE…but I really do think I notice something. It seems to make
me feel more talkative and social…and slightly more upbeat. But because it is so subtle compared to Ritalin
(for example), it’s hard to pinpoint just yet.

Then again, I have been taking the minimum of all of my supps / meds, so perhaps I need to up the dose on some.
I don’t like to experiment with megadosing.

Modafanil 200 mg tabs. I was taking these before I got dignosed with ADD. They seemed to help, but then again
I was using them at a time when I only had ONE thing to accomplish (write a book). Again, my strength is single
minded focus, so not sure how much outside help they were. Also, when I started taking Ritalin (which I then stopped),
I combined with Modafanil (5 mg Ritalin and 5 mg Modafinil).I felt AMAZING…and then had a terrible terrible crash,
in which I sank into deep depression. I think that experience put me off both Modafainil and Ritalin. I havent gone back
to either, but, again, I am open to suggestions!

Armodafanil 150 mg tabs. I wasn’t diligent enough in my experimentation to notice the difference between Modafanil.
I got them both at the same time, and although I know they must be different, I used them indescriminately. But again,
stopped both after beginning my experimentation with my other ADD meds.

Supplements I own, but am NOT taking yet (Want to introduce one at a time to gauge effects)

Lithium Orotate - 5mg tabs. ADD. Some people have claimed that is has “cured” them of their ADD. Am very
interested in trying it! I just want to be methodical about it, so havent added it in the stack yet.

NADH- 10 mg tabs. Depression & Energy. Supposed to be great for depression. Again, I am taking so many other
things, I want to add the additional “miracle” supplements one at a time to see what changes they make individually.

Phosphatidyl Serine - 100mg tabs. ADD. Great reports from the ADD formus.

DMAE - 351 mg tabs. ADD & Focus. Heard good and bad things about this.

L-Tyrosine 500 mg tabs. ADD & Depression. Not sure about its interactions


***** NOW FOR THE REAL QUESTIONS******

As you can see, a lot of the things in my current and future stack have effects on the brain and mood (dopamine
and serotonin levels, etc), so I want to be very careful about combos of them.

In my stack can you see any bit NO-NOs when it comes to mixing?

Here are some combos that I know of already:

SELEGILINE + RITALIN / ADDERALL = BAD.
I have read that this can be a dangerous combo, as it can raise blood pressure too much. Of course, I have also
read of people who have no problem with it. I don’t plan on trying it.

TIANEPTINE + MODAFINIL = BAD
I read on dr bob forum that some buy had a near psychotic episode with this combo. When it comes to terrible
reactions, if just one person has it, it’s enough for me to be extremely cautious.

SELEGILINE + TIANEPTINE = GOOD (according to somebody here on LC) or NOT GOOD (according to others.
But I don’t think it was classified as dangerous) Could be interesting to try after evaluating each individually, if safe.

What are your thoughts / suggestions / warnings about the following combos:

Ritalin + Tianeptine?
Ritalin + Modafinil?
Ritalin + L-Theanine?
Ritalin + Vinpocetine?
Ritalin + PS?
Ritalin + L-tyrosine?
Ritalin + DMAE?
Ritalin + Lithium Orotate?

Selegiline + Tianeptine?
Selegiline + Vinpocetine?
Selegiline + L-Theanine?
Selegiline + L-tyrosine?
Selegiline + DMAE?
Selegiline + PS?
Selegiline + Modafinil?
Selegiline + Lithium Orotate?

Tianeptine + Vinpocetine?
Tianeptine + L-tyrosine?
Tianeptine + DMAE?
Tianeptine + PS?
Tianeptine + Lithium Orotate?

Any other combos to be aware of that are either good or bad?

If you have read this far YOUR MEDS ARE WORKING! ;-D

But seriously, thanks in advance for any and all suggestions / feedback.

[heymazing]

Also, what Nootropics should I be adding, if any? (That will ship to central america).

[heymazing]

And of the list of supplements that I have not yet started taking (Lithium Orotate, NADH, Phosphatidyl Serine, DMAE, L-Tyrosine), which would you recommend I add into my regimen ASAP?

(Sorry can't seem to unbold my text)

[renfr]

6000mg of MSM? That's quite heavy if you're not doing a detox. Go easy on it because it is a blood thinner and so is fish oil.
Also it's almost useless if you don't take it with some vitamin C. I suggest you reduce the dosage to something between 750-1500mg.
As for vinpocetine, general consensus says it's not really recommended. Could be great sporadically but not on a daily basis, vinpocetine causes agranulocytosis which means a lower white cell count = lower immune system.
What's the good thing about the asporotate form of magnesium? Does it have special properties?
I would recommend adding the phosphatidylserine to your stack, as well as the L-tyrosine (for motivation).
However I guess you should forget about DMAE, it seems to be not so good even though I tried it without any adverse effects.
As for depression well why don't you try Inositol? (as myo-Inositol) It has been successfully used to relieve depression.
Don't take it if you're prone to hypoglycemia or you have low magnesium/potassium.

As for your combination question, well I don't know much about these prescription meds but if you're not sure you should check their neurochemistry and see if it can interfere in a bad way. You could also try very low dosages of each. Just don't mix two stimulants.

[nupi]

I would try Ritalin and an SSRI.

Stacking Ritalin with a MAOB-I seems like a bad idea.

More importantly: how do you convince a doc that the ability to have hyperfocus but inability to prioritize while being high functioning would at least warrant a try with Ritalin? My (now fired) shrink was not very receptive to that idea, I have to say.

[Reformed-Redan]

I would try Ritalin and an SSRI.

Stacking Ritalin with a MAOB-I seems like a bad idea.

More importantly: how do you convince a doc that the ability to have hyperfocus but inability to prioritize while being high functioning would at least warrant a try with Ritalin? My (now fired) shrink was not very receptive to that idea, I have to say.

I can't believe the posts around here. "Just throw in a SSRI with ritalin and you'll be fine." Really? What could possibly go wrong with adding all these drugs together?

[Reformed-Redan]

Someone should put up a disclaimer before some gullible sap starts throwing down meds down his/her throat.

******WARNING: UNQUALIFIED INFORMATION. SERIOUS NEUROLOGICAL DAMAGE CAN OCCUR. WARNING*********
******WARNING: RISK OF SUICIDE WHEN TAKING SSRI'S. WARNING********

[heymazing]

6000mg of MSM? That's quite heavy if you're not doing a detox. Go easy on it because it is a blood thinner and so is fish oil.
Also it's almost useless if you don't take it with some vitamin C. I suggest you reduce the dosage to something between 750-1500mg.
As for vinpocetine, general consensus says it's not really recommended. Could be great sporadically but not on a daily basis, vinpocetine causes agranulocytosis which means a lower white cell count = lower immune system.
What's the good thing about the asporotate form of magnesium? Does it have special properties?
I would recommend adding the phosphatidylserine to your stack, as well as the L-tyrosine (for motivation).
However I guess you should forget about DMAE, it seems to be not so good even though I tried it without any adverse effects.
As for depression well why don't you try Inositol? (as myo-Inositol) It has been successfully used to relieve depression.
Don't take it if you're prone to hypoglycemia or you have low magnesium/potassium.

As for your combination question, well I don't know much about these prescription meds but if you're not sure you should check their neurochemistry and see if it can interfere in a bad way. You could also try very low dosages of each. Just don't mix two stimulants.

Thanks much for that valuable info. The Msm at that quantity is for vanity, I confess. This is the amt ladies suggest in the long hair forums. good to know about blood thinning and vit c!

The asp orotate is supposed to be highly absorbable.

(responding I. Phone and my view is limited. Pardon weird mistakes)

I would try Ritalin and an SSRI.

Stacking Ritalin with a MAOB-I seems like a bad idea.

More importantly: how do you convince a doc that the ability to have hyperfocus but inability to prioritize while being high functioning would at least warrant a try with Ritalin? My (now fired) shrink was not very receptive to that idea, I have to say.

I can't believe the posts around here. "Just throw in a SSRI with ritalin and you'll be fine." Really? What could possibly go wrong with adding all these drugs together?

I should have mentioned that I DID try the combo (at my doc's recommendation) . Never ever ever again. I haven't felt that BAD in awhile. It was adderall + Prozac. I felt like a hyper focused lethargic zombie. It must work for some people else why would they prescribe this? I would strongly advise against it.

[heymazing]

Hyper focus tendencies are VERY common in ADD peeps. Shame on your shrink for not knowing that. Another one should, it's not a secret.

Re: SSRIs: they are off the table for me. Not ever doing that again.

Selegiline is a SSRE, Which apparently is interesting. I am a very smart person, but I have a hard time reading and understanding abstracts. I like to read others layman explanations of them

[nupi]

Tianeptine is an SSRE, Selegiline is a MAOI- B (at low doses) or a full MAOI, unless I have totally misunderstood something.

As for suicide tendencies, I know there is the black box warning but let's be honest, depression is a bigger risk for suicide than SSRIs ever were. Also, I don't see any pharmacological reason why SSRI and MPH should not be combined (aside of some people's dislike for anything SSRI)

[heymazing]

Tianeptine is an SSRE, Selegiline is a MAOI- B (at low doses) or a full MAOI, unless I have totally misunderstood something.

As for suicide tendencies, I know there is the black box warning but let's be honest, depression is a bigger risk for suicide than SSRIs ever were. Also, I don't see any pharmacological reason why SSRI and MPH should not be combined (aside of some people's dislike for anything SSRI)

Yes, you are right! I got them mixed up, sorry!

I am not anti SSRI on principal, but I did have such a bad reaction to Prozac personally, that I don't think they are right for me. Like so many meds, it depends on personal body chemistry. There seem to be a lot who benefit. But also a lot who have even worse reactions (like myself)... And when they are bad, they are really bad. I could totally see myself getting suicidal if I felt like that for long. I guess others have felt the same..Hence the strong warnings. But if it works for you, it works!

[heymazing]

There also seem to be different types of depression. If you are depressed because you lack motivation, then SSRIs seem to be a bad choice, as they tend to dull both negative feelings AND motivation. This is my case. If you are depressed for other reasons, SSRIs might be a good choice for you. When combining SSRIs and stimulants: BE CAREFUL. I felt so bad when I did it...if I had been a in a worse position in my life/ mindset, I could have done something stupid. Just monitor yourself, have friends on call and be careful.

[Olon]

NRIs (e.g. reboxetine) are good for mild depression / mild ADHD

[heymazing]

NRIs (e.g. reboxetine) are good for mild depression / mild ADHD

Do you have any personal experience with this drug? Doing research on it, I came across quite the controversial article about it:

http://blogs.scienti...ent-in-science/

[Olon]

NRIs (e.g. reboxetine) are good for mild depression / mild ADHD

Do you have any personal experience with this drug? Doing research on it, I came across quite the controversial article about it:

http://blogs.scienti...ent-in-science/

The effect was too mild for my purpose, but switching to something stronger is always possible.

[nupi]

Wellbutrin but only if you have no anxiety issues....

[renfr]

Wellbutrin but only if you have no anxiety issues....

No, wellbutrin is an anticholinergic, that's a very bad thing if you're going to improve your cognition.
Besides I remember about that study saying that Wellbutrin can cause CNS demyelination.

SSRIs aren't good either, maybe for a punctual use but never for chronic use. SSREs might be better for that.

[nupi]

It's a trade off - the anticholinergic nature of Wellbutrin is not THAT bad (it's the anxiogenic part that got to me) and definitely less constraining than depression/lack of motivation. Plus it has at least some support in ADD (Tianeptine AFAIK does not).

For most people, SSRIs are largely useless for adhoc use. I still maintain that I can feel Escitalopram coming on but the downside is that with its short half life, I need to multi dose it to get 24/7 coverage so adhoc use is kind of pointless even for me (quite aside the incredible fatigue it produces in me). Fluoxetine is much smoother in that regard.

Besides, even for all the bad press SSRIs get, considering that huge number of prescriptions they are likely to be beneficial in the majority of cases. I know that I don't have any plans to get off Fluoxetine any time soon.

Edited by nupi, 20 January 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[heymazing]

To each their own! Obviously it works for some people's brain chemistries. I would never suggest stopping something that is working for you... So many of us are looking for just that !

>>>QUESTION<<<<

What about the supplements that affect brain chemistry like phosphatidyl serine, l-theanine, l-tyrosine, vinpocitine, etc, .... Are any of these inadvisable or advisable to be mixed with SSREs or MAOBs or stimulants like ritalin or modafanil?

I am concerned about supp + med interactions that i might not be aware of here.

Say I was to choose just ONE of the pharmaceuticals... Any combos to be aware of with any of the one pharmas and any of the supps?

>>>>Gracias!<<<<

Edited by heymazing, 20 January 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[heymazing]

Hey again guys!

For the past 2 days I've been using a combination that so far seems to be pretty excellent for me. Actually I feel so good that I am a bit concerned about tolerance / dependence and would like some advice on cycling. Time off, time on, etc.

Here are the things I have added to the stack above:

- L-Tyrosine. I have added 1000 - 1500 mg / day.

but I think that what is really giving me the good feeling and motivation is the following:

Tianeptine (Stablon) 12.5mg X3/day.I take 2 in the morning and 1 in mid afternoon PLUS 1/8th of a modafinil. Yes, only 1/8 of a 200mg pill. Yesterday I took 1/4 and at the end of the day I felt a little too wired..Today I took only 1/8th and I feel pretty great. So a total of 27.5mg Tianeptine and 25mg of Modafinil.

How do I feel?

Well the thought of sitting down and doing "admin" tasks feels less stressful. (Doing boring, multi-faceted work normally really stresses me out). I feel generally happier and more social. I don't feel "speedy" like I do when I take Ritalin. I have a slight body high, which is what makes me think I should probably cycle this. Don't want to get addicted to anything!

If I had a bit more self constraint I would test out JUST the addition of L-Tyrosine. If any of you begs me to do that, to gauge the results, I will..Otherwise I think I will keep with this combo for awhile.

What advice do y'all have for cycling the Tianeptine & modafinil? Anything extra I should take on the days that I'm not taking it?

I also stopped taking the Deprenyl, as I think it MAY have caused an Eczema flare up. I will wait for the flare up to subside, which it already is, and then introduce the Deprenyl again into the regime to see if it does anything.

Comments? Suggestions? Questions?

[heymazing]

Oh, and I have added P-serine as per suggestions. I have added 2 100mg caps per day. So one with breakfast and one mid afternoon.

So the PS and the L-tyrosine could indeed be adding to the effects too.

Perhaps I will leave out the modafanil and the tianeptine tomorrow to see what the results are...

Again, would love advice on how to cycle so as to avoid dependency/tolerance...Thanks!!