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A Better Way To Look Nootropics

nootrpics new approach way hypothesis explaination

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#31 nupi

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:09 PM

Is it just me who finds it strange that someone starts a controversial thread and then just changes his nick?

#32 LBGSHI

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:38 PM

Is it just me who finds it strange that someone starts a controversial thread and then just changes his nick?


Yeah, it's a little suspect. Still, it's a new user, so it could've just been a change of mind.

As for bad grammar and composition, this person could be in Mongolia, with only a basic grasp of the English language. Just because someone doesn't have first-rate English composition skills doesn't mean their point isn't salient. Yes, the discussion is somewhat amateur (deprecating PubMed citations?) and mostly obvious (truisms abound), but sometimes people can't see the forest for the trees, and simplistic analysis still has its place. Even if the point being made is showcased like a breakthrough and it's nothing new at all, we don't have to play "tear the newb down". It looks like this person really wants to contribute; maybe a nudge in the right direction and links to a few commonly-referenced threads here would do the trick (http://www.longecity...s-thread-index/, etc). If we shoot down every new guy that doesn't post in flawless iambic pentameter and blow our minds with regaling new hypotheses, we'll just come off like a bunch of elitist snobs.

Edited by LBGSHI, 09 February 2013 - 09:39 PM.

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#33 BLimitless

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:22 AM

Well said!

In all due honesty I did take something very useful from this thread. I did not know that muscarinic acetylcholine receptors were responsible for mediating schizophrenia's negative symptoms. It's a very interesting target as I was working at pounding the a7nAChr but if there's an easier way, then hell yeah. Beats smoking tobacco, that's for sure!

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#34 Mr. Pink

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:12 AM

TYPES OF NOOTROPIC EFFECTS

There are mainly three types of nootropic effects observed according to what you are taking.

1. feeling Intelligent
2. Being Intelligent
3. Preserving intelligence

1.Feeling Intelligent. -

This is mostly dopaminergic phenomenon, commonly seen with stimulants. Where they amplify the perception of achievement, For Example even if you solved an easy riddle, person under influence of stimulant will feel they just cracked the most difficult riddle. No matter how much they actually got benefited from stimulants, most of users will feel they got significant benefits.
But this effect is beneficial indirectly because when you get amplified feelings of achievement it will have positive influence on your further achievements, making you better day by day because you are going through various cognitively demanding tasks where stimulants gives you strength to stay on that task.
Another advantage is sometimes many people have potential to achieve something but if they are not feeling confident, they have no motivation, drive etc then their potential will remain unused.
Initially, stimulants will improve your reaction speed, alertness, motivation etc but with chronic use tolerance is an issue. Achieving homeostasis with stimulants is necessary to prevent going towards addiction and to continue getting beneficial effects with a reasonable level of tolerance.

2.Being Intelligent -

This are the compounds which actually increase your intelligence But it is hard for you to notice it without going through cognitive tests. There is also limitation in this field of nootropics as compounds available rightnow can increase intelligence only to a minor extent that wont have big impact on your life.
But their effect are quite noticeable in person having various brain pathology and disorders. but it also depends on type of pathology or disorder. They are most likely to work best if you acquired cognitive impairments during your life, if thats the case then these type of nootropics can bring back to your baseline level again. but if you are already at baseline they won't make a drastic change.
Memory is only aspect of intelligence that can be enhanced noticeably compared to other aspects of intelligence with current nootropic compounds.

3.Preserving Intelligence-
This are compounds which mainly keep you at your baseline or achieved level and mainly prevent the cognitive deterioration. neuroprotective substances, vitamins, minerals, exercise etc. In general all the compounds that protects you from deteriorating.


If memory is the only aspect someone wanted to enhance what would be the most effective way to do that?

#35 OpaqueMind

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

You seem to know your stuff, thanks for the contributions! It may be basic information to people more learned in these fields but I think most people coming to this site are neophytes in the realm of neuropharmacology and could benefit from such an overview.

Questions;
you talk about practices you do alongside nootropics in order to harness their potential, would you mind expanding on these?
Do you consider there to be any nutritional necessities for maximizing the efficacy of nootropics eg specific macronutrient ratios

#36 troubleis

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:05 PM

Thank you for taking the time to write information for us to imerse in..

Even if it has been written before, somewhere on the forum.

Edited by troubleis, 10 February 2013 - 02:06 PM.


#37 B!oN!cSy@PsE

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:44 PM

You seem to know your stuff, thanks for the contributions! It may be basic information to people more learned in these fields but I think most people coming to this site are neophytes in the realm of neuropharmacology and could benefit from such an overview.

Questions;
you talk about practices you do alongside nootropics in order to harness their potential, would you mind expanding on these?
Do you consider there to be any nutritional necessities for maximizing the efficacy of nootropics eg specific macronutrient ratios


Once again before replying, This answer will be combination of my personal experience + abstract articles + experience & opinion of board members that I read. I am not claiming authority over this.

1.Nutrition:

Nutrition is most Important for your nootropics to work persistent and better. First of all most common problem with using nutritional supplement and products is that people often drop them out of their stack because they think its not helping them and adding few more bucks to their total nootropics cost. You will never feel that they are helping or improving your symptoms most of times but their main role is to increase effectiveness of your stronger nootropics. They will also take long time to be effective in their role but they will make a lot of difference in long run.
a) L-Methylfolate: this is active form of folate found in brain which is involved in synthesis of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine. FDA has put it into category of Medical food which is neither drug nor supplement. its most commonly prescribed by doctors for depression to augment the effect of antidepressant medications. But they will also augment your nootropics because most of nootropics directly or indirectly involve these same neurotransmitters.

Who gets benefited and how? - synthesis of L-methylfolate from folate is rate limiting step, it means if you are genetically unfortunate whose neurotransmitter synthesis level is low then L- Methylfolate will partially or totally overcome that problem.
It will also help if you are stimulant user. Stimulants are well known to increase levels of catecholamines (DA & NE mainly). And depending upon your body's tolerance tendency it may decrease the catecholamine synthesis via negative feedback loop. L- Methylfolate will overcome that also partially or completely.

Recommended dose - 7.5 mg to 14 mg a day.

Advise- Dont judge whether it is working or not as on its own it wont produce strong effects, but our purpose is to augment or continue the effects of other nootropics you are taking, so keep taking it without dumping it from your stack.

b) L -Tyrosine or N- acetyl-L-tyrosine: the amino acid involved in synthesis of NE and DA. Also Involved in synthesis of thyroid hormones. If you have ADHD and you use stimulants or you are non ADHD stimulant user, for both of groups these amino acid is most essential. Many studies have shown that Tyrosine deficient diet will drastically reduce stimulant's action. Even if you are not using any stimulants, tyrosine will still increase levels of NE and DA but far less efficiently compared to stimulants but quite noticeable for a person who never used stimulant or who was off stimulant for long period.

c) Acetyl L- Carnitine with or without Alpha Lipoic acid - this is the supplement that almost everyone uses. Improves your energy levels, mood. its antioxidant. Improves mitochondrial functioning and increase overall responsiveness of CNS via upregulation of cAMP pathways.

I will not advice choline supplements to everyone because some users feel depressed from taking them and it also blunts down effect of stimulants in some users. So you will be on your own about trying and using choline.

d) Fish Oil/ Cod Liver Oil:
The most healthy food for your brain. When you take fish oil you are just serving your brain a delight. This is must for all nootropic users. difference between fish oil and cod liver oil is that cod liver oil also contains high levels of vitamin D & E and sometimes impurities such as mercury if you bought it from poor source. so poping cod liver oil like m&m can put you in toxic state of hypervitaminosis. so if you are taking any other calcium or vitamin supplement it will be better to use fish oil than cod liver oil.

FOOD HABITS: drop all that junk food, and if you are unable to then atleast cut it from your diet as much as you can. High sugar food should be avoided if you are gonna have a task requiring higher attention and memory. Take more protein food in your diet. You can also take protein supplement along with other vitamins and minerals.
FOOD BOOSTS : despite of taking everything above mentioned at times you will feel that your cognitive functions are not working as per demanding situation or you feel that your nootropics or stims lost its effects try eating a banana. Banana is your mcdonalds happy meal packed with almost all raw material required for neurotransmitter synthesis. Bananas are also high in potassium content. Potassium will somehow be beneficial for your nootropics as most of racetams increase k+ stimulated neurotransmitter release and few other actions. You can eat a banana daily or as per need as banana can increase your weight.
another food booster is almond. high in tyrosine and magnesium content along with other minerals.
eggs, avocados etc also are boosters.

TO BE CONTINUED.......

#38 B!oN!cSy@PsE

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:47 AM

e) L-THEANINE- commonly found it green tea. The unique amino acid that has neuroprotective and relaxant action. Pharmacologically theanine seems to act as a weak antagonist of glutamate receptors AMPA, Kinate and NMDA. Effects on glycine receptors also has been noted which is thought be its mechanism of increasing dopamine levels.
Again not focusing much on the mechanism, we have clinical data and experience on tea for almost thousands of years. Theanine tends to counteract anxiety and edgy feeling produced by caffeine and both work in synergistic manner. So what does it tell us? it means Theanine is best natural compound that you can combine with CNS stimulants. even combination of racetams and theanine would be great. (personal experience and exp of few of my friends). Pharmacologically it would be foolish as racetams tend to increase activity of glutamate receptors and theanine tend to antagonize those receptors, But clinically effects would be different, you may get steady better effects from combination or you may get phasic effect of racetam dominance and theanine dominance. But that can be corrected by dose titration. Theanine also tend to modulate immune system and antibody levels, so if tolerance to nootropics is immunity mediated then theanine might be able to modulate that too.

f)Green tea- theanine taken alone and using green tea to get theanine will have different effect due to presence of caffeine and Epigallocatechine gallate and few other compounds present in green tea. Green tea is again a bit controversial which has been reported to induce anxiety and wierd mood in few people while producing anxiolysis and positive effects in others. So again its only recommended for people who get more positive effects from it. Also don't take it if you are already using strong stimulants or combination of stimulants because of presence of caffeine in green tea. Decaf green tea might be option in that case.


Now I will be writting about psychological tweaks to increase effectiveness of your nootropic stack.

Edited by B!oN!cSy@PsE, 12 February 2013 - 07:49 AM.


#39 B!oN!cSy@PsE

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:19 AM

2.psychological tweaks

The main focus here would be tweaking your mindset in a way that you retain your self even when you are taking nootropic stack and even when you know that you can't increase your cognition to a noticeable extent without support of nootropics. So we will try to counteract the dependence if present consciously and subconsciously. And to reach the state of mind where you create partition between your work and nootropics' work.
A small example to explain what I mean, Dont judge the morality of it. ok so if suppose I decided to cheat in my upcoming exams. and to do that I bought a high tech gadget(nootropic). from this point there can be two possible scenario.

1. I focused more and more on the gadget till my exams and in this process my mind got so much obsessed with that gadget and its powers that I started believing that I would never be able to compete the gadget and get the score that I will get in exams with the help of that gadget. We people are quite logical and intelligent group on longecity so we know that what we are believing is a fact. But even if it is truth it is having adverse effects on your preexisting cognitive levels.
if you went to exam and somehow your gadget stopped working, you will be in most miserable condition because now you dont have gadget and also dont have your previous cognitive levels which you lost due to losing confidence in your self and only focusing on that gadget for whole time.
2. I accepted the gadget as a possible tool to increase my performance in exams but after buying it and setting it properly I focused more on my preparations, suspecting the possibility that if gadget goes wrong in exams I will fail miserably, So I focused more on my self then gadget. Now in exams if gadget worked then my performance would be combination of my performance + gadget's performance(more). and if something went wrong with gadget atleast I will be able to somehow use my own previous skills.

Don't try to judge this example too much logically, the main point is there is definite benefit if you dont lose your self in process of taking nootropics and take them just like you take your daily meals once your stack is set properly. because if you continuously keep observing and thinking what you have taken and how it is affecting you every minute or hour then it is sort of distracting you from your main work which is more important as only taking nootropics wont actually help.

What is exactly happening when you keep thinking and observing effects of nootropics that you took? Actually you are entering in never ending loop process where beneficial effects of nootropics that you are taking are being more used on focusing and analyzing on effects and changes that are happening to you, your mood, your cognition etc. Generally a normal person won't be able to analyse such minor details in those internal changes as accurately as these longecity members does because they are taking nootropics and utilizing its effects on analyzing on effects produced by nootropics. And such process will even make effects of your nootropics more complex and wierd because you see a magic trick differently when you dont know how it is done and you see it differently when you know the trick behind that magic.

So if you are in this loop process, you gotta get yourself out if it. I will write down few techniques that you can use to break the loop.




TO BE CONTINUED.......

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#40 B!oN!cSy@PsE

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:16 AM

First of all you have to decide for what purpose you are taking nootropics. To become a self experimenting researcher who would discover something new or to get benefits in your daily life to have a better, enhanced, successful life.
If you belong to first one then reading and applying this things in your mind will adversely affect your goal, If you belong to second group then you must apply this all in your mind otherwise you are shooting a dart randomly somewhere in air which will never hit the dart board.


1.Accept the limitations:

accept the limitations of current nootropics to put a full stop in your 24x7 racing fantasy mind searching for miracle substance. You have to control your psychological tendency to break the limits, be enhanced to a extent where no other human can compete you etc.
Keep in mind that you are taking nootropics just like healthy lifestyle and food which would increase your performance to 40% maximum averagely from your baseline. If you dont accept this then your mind will be more in nootropics search then doing actual useful work.

2. Have Faith:
The one and only use of faith in this world is to fool our minds just to keep it from questioning more and produce an artificial peace. Logical people usually hate faith people because faith people can cut down any logic just by saying have faith. and they are so confident about it that logical people get frustrated on their stupidness because faith makes you blind from a simple truth.
So we are gonna use faith as a tool this time. Have faith in your nootropics. Have faith that they are or they will work one day. This will shut down useless google searches for newer miracle nootropics and those how to reduce tolerance questions. cut down every question on effectiveness and doubts about your nootropics with help of faith.

3.Don't Be too quick to come to conclusion:
Even person who is gifted with most superior cognitive abilities naturally, cannot be or stay genius 24x7. Because we are never designed to work at optimum levels 24x7. according to your circardian rhythm and other natural limitations you will have a down phase in terms of performance throughout the day. So dont be too quick to conclude that your nootropics lost effectiveness, because their effect will also get modulated by your body's natural rhythms and responses. Same stack which is not working tonight might start working again tomorrow morning. That is why proper sleep, healthy diet and exercise is very important to minimize this fluctuations in effects of nootropics.

4.Limit your stack:
Take as much as time as you want in deciding the main nootropics of your stack (strong ones). but once you decided your stack just stick to it. And try to solve problems regarding effects mainly by aspects other than changing or adding another nootropics. try everything that you can to get your stack optimized. only modify your stack when you feel that even after trying everything except adding or changing nootropic your stack is not reaching or maintaining effective levels then only modify your stack. by this method if you somehow achieve successful stack then it will remain successful for long time and even your body and mind will be optimally adjusted with your stack.


To Be Continued.....

Edited by B!oN!cSy@PsE, 12 February 2013 - 09:21 AM.

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