I've also read about Bacopa and 5-HTP. What's the best and safest option? If it's L-Theanine, should I mix it with caffeine?
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#3
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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:27 PM
Aniracetam really didn't do a whole lot in terms of anti-anxiety for me, though I don't have severe anxiety (mostly just poor handling of stress and mild social anxiety). Like Adam said it has such a short half-life, I doubt it would be useful even if it worked. I notice that it makes me more relaxed when I'm trying to work on a cognitively intense task, but it really doesn't have a huge effect on me. One thing to note is that it's fat soluble, so it should be taken with a fat source (though low on fiber, as fiber can prevent full absorption, it encourages gradual absorption). I suggest milk, yogurt or cheese, as they should provide a good amount of fat without adding too much biomass.
My experience with L-Theanine is not direct; I used to drink a lot of Matcha tea which is high in theanine. One thing that complicates my review of it's effects is that as it turns out I was getting too much caffeine daily at that time; it was exacerbating my anxiety. However I do believe that L-Theanine really helped to handle the negative effects I was getting from the caffeine (I have since cut back on my caffeine consumption, only getting it irregularly). Just like it's supposed to, I found it made me tranquil; serene. My thoughts were less jumpy and more focused, which in turn felt relaxing. It works theoretically by inducing alpha-waves in the brain which are associated with calm, relaxed thinking. So if you have issues with racing thoughts (that's mainly how anxiety subjectively feels to me; I feel panicky, my thoughts leaping between stressors without being able to focus on one to resolve it), it would be of particular help. Furthermore theanine is suspected to agonize/antagonize various receptors in a way that may be favorable, possibly balancing neurotransmitter activity in some individuals. Most people here find it's great to combine with other stimulants (i.e caffeine, ritalin, etc) if you tend to react adversely to them.
I would say anxiety is just as complicated as depression, in that it can be caused by a plethora of things, and often by more than one thing (like how studies are indicating more and more that depression is much more complicated than just "too much/too little seratonin"). Also, other issues can masquerade as anxiety. For example, an underactive gabaergic system (low levels of GABA/low receptor count) could produce feelings similar to anxiety; racing, panicky thoughts, a scattered, tense sort of feeling, etc. Imbalances in various neurotransmitters could possibly create feelings of anxiousness/tension, such as an excess of dopamine, too little/too much seratonin. Then it's theorized that oxidative stress could possibly manifest symptoms such as mood disorders before necessarily being pathological. So you may have to focus on building a stack of anxiolytic substances to handle multiple vectors. I would definitely suggest trying L-Theanine, as it seems to be a great substance for calm thinking. For long-term treatment of anxiety issues, I would suggest investigating neurotransmitter modulators/upregulation, rather than agonists, reuptake inhibitors, etc. Modulating the release and action of neurotranmitters is a much more proactive approach, and it doesn't have the tolerance issues that agonizing receptors/drastically increasing neurotransmitter action time/release has. It probably won't magically fix a mood disorder like actually agonizing receptors would, but it's a long-term approach that may lead to a much more stable brain chemistry. If you have severe anxiety issues, direct approaches like agonists/reuptake inhibitors may be worth using in the short term. For example, if you have bad social anxiety, you can look into using Phenibut and/or Picamilon for special occasions, like presentations or parties. They work by agonizing GABA receptors, which at the right dose, should virtually eliminate anxiety temporarily (assuming it's not seratonin related). However, anything that agonizes GABA receptors or signifigantly elevates levels of GABA will be very addictive; with terrible withdrawal once you've gotten hooked. Most people advise using very active GABAergic substances like Phenibut once a week tops, and definitely no more than 2 days in a row (that's a very conservative limit, but you really, really, do not want to develop an addiction to a GABA substance, withdrawal causes rebound anxiety, feelings of being very tense, possibly seizures, etc. Not fun. Just google phenibut withdrawal and see for yourself).
Seratonin is also a route to investigate, as it is implicated with anxiety. I would start with indirect treatment, supplementing certain amino acids just in case the anxiety is deficiency related. 5-HTP would be a worth a try, though it might be a better idea to try Tryptophan itself first, as supplementing 5-HTP has been associated with various risks such as heart issues, not to mention gastrointestinal aggravation. Another one I would definitely look into is L-Lysine, as a mild deficiency is associated with pathologically increased levels of seratonin in the amygdala, which could theoretically lead to overactive fear responses (such as aggravating social anxiety). Kava kava might be worth trying for a few weeks too, as it interestingly seems to both agonize as well as upregulate GABA receptors, though due to the first part of that (being an agonist) I would be cautious in regards to it. After three weeks, try stopping for a few days to see if you have any rebound issues. That way if you find you're developing an addiction, you'll be able to stop a lot easier. I would keep doing that for a few months until you can establish that it's not causing any major addiction issues. If you have a low-meat diet, I'd experiment with various amino acids, especially essential ones, as we tend to aborb nutrients best from meat (and terribly from plants), and hence if you don't get a lot of meat products, you could be mildly deficient in various aminio acids associated with neurotransmitter production.
Finally, do not underestimate the power of good sleep habits. Duration is important, try to get around 8 and a half hours each night. Also, try to get to bed earlier, rather than sleeping in, as sleep quality tends to diminish as the ambient light increases, and daily noises start up. To jumptstart a proper circadian rythm, try taking melatonin prior to the ideal bed time, every day for around two weeks (I wouldn't use it long term, there are concerns with possibly reducing the bodies natural production of melatonin after months of use). This should help to get you naturally feeling tired around that time, as well as increasing the quality of sleep you get. Simply sleeping is not enough, you need to get the right amount of cycles of REM and Non-REM (deep) sleep. It sounds like a lot of work, but chronically getting even a just a little less sleep than you need can cause tons of mood/cognitive issues. Even just an hour too little can make a huge difference. I suggest reading Wikipedia's description of the physiology of sleep for more details.
My experience with L-Theanine is not direct; I used to drink a lot of Matcha tea which is high in theanine. One thing that complicates my review of it's effects is that as it turns out I was getting too much caffeine daily at that time; it was exacerbating my anxiety. However I do believe that L-Theanine really helped to handle the negative effects I was getting from the caffeine (I have since cut back on my caffeine consumption, only getting it irregularly). Just like it's supposed to, I found it made me tranquil; serene. My thoughts were less jumpy and more focused, which in turn felt relaxing. It works theoretically by inducing alpha-waves in the brain which are associated with calm, relaxed thinking. So if you have issues with racing thoughts (that's mainly how anxiety subjectively feels to me; I feel panicky, my thoughts leaping between stressors without being able to focus on one to resolve it), it would be of particular help. Furthermore theanine is suspected to agonize/antagonize various receptors in a way that may be favorable, possibly balancing neurotransmitter activity in some individuals. Most people here find it's great to combine with other stimulants (i.e caffeine, ritalin, etc) if you tend to react adversely to them.
I would say anxiety is just as complicated as depression, in that it can be caused by a plethora of things, and often by more than one thing (like how studies are indicating more and more that depression is much more complicated than just "too much/too little seratonin"). Also, other issues can masquerade as anxiety. For example, an underactive gabaergic system (low levels of GABA/low receptor count) could produce feelings similar to anxiety; racing, panicky thoughts, a scattered, tense sort of feeling, etc. Imbalances in various neurotransmitters could possibly create feelings of anxiousness/tension, such as an excess of dopamine, too little/too much seratonin. Then it's theorized that oxidative stress could possibly manifest symptoms such as mood disorders before necessarily being pathological. So you may have to focus on building a stack of anxiolytic substances to handle multiple vectors. I would definitely suggest trying L-Theanine, as it seems to be a great substance for calm thinking. For long-term treatment of anxiety issues, I would suggest investigating neurotransmitter modulators/upregulation, rather than agonists, reuptake inhibitors, etc. Modulating the release and action of neurotranmitters is a much more proactive approach, and it doesn't have the tolerance issues that agonizing receptors/drastically increasing neurotransmitter action time/release has. It probably won't magically fix a mood disorder like actually agonizing receptors would, but it's a long-term approach that may lead to a much more stable brain chemistry. If you have severe anxiety issues, direct approaches like agonists/reuptake inhibitors may be worth using in the short term. For example, if you have bad social anxiety, you can look into using Phenibut and/or Picamilon for special occasions, like presentations or parties. They work by agonizing GABA receptors, which at the right dose, should virtually eliminate anxiety temporarily (assuming it's not seratonin related). However, anything that agonizes GABA receptors or signifigantly elevates levels of GABA will be very addictive; with terrible withdrawal once you've gotten hooked. Most people advise using very active GABAergic substances like Phenibut once a week tops, and definitely no more than 2 days in a row (that's a very conservative limit, but you really, really, do not want to develop an addiction to a GABA substance, withdrawal causes rebound anxiety, feelings of being very tense, possibly seizures, etc. Not fun. Just google phenibut withdrawal and see for yourself).
Seratonin is also a route to investigate, as it is implicated with anxiety. I would start with indirect treatment, supplementing certain amino acids just in case the anxiety is deficiency related. 5-HTP would be a worth a try, though it might be a better idea to try Tryptophan itself first, as supplementing 5-HTP has been associated with various risks such as heart issues, not to mention gastrointestinal aggravation. Another one I would definitely look into is L-Lysine, as a mild deficiency is associated with pathologically increased levels of seratonin in the amygdala, which could theoretically lead to overactive fear responses (such as aggravating social anxiety). Kava kava might be worth trying for a few weeks too, as it interestingly seems to both agonize as well as upregulate GABA receptors, though due to the first part of that (being an agonist) I would be cautious in regards to it. After three weeks, try stopping for a few days to see if you have any rebound issues. That way if you find you're developing an addiction, you'll be able to stop a lot easier. I would keep doing that for a few months until you can establish that it's not causing any major addiction issues. If you have a low-meat diet, I'd experiment with various amino acids, especially essential ones, as we tend to aborb nutrients best from meat (and terribly from plants), and hence if you don't get a lot of meat products, you could be mildly deficient in various aminio acids associated with neurotransmitter production.
Finally, do not underestimate the power of good sleep habits. Duration is important, try to get around 8 and a half hours each night. Also, try to get to bed earlier, rather than sleeping in, as sleep quality tends to diminish as the ambient light increases, and daily noises start up. To jumptstart a proper circadian rythm, try taking melatonin prior to the ideal bed time, every day for around two weeks (I wouldn't use it long term, there are concerns with possibly reducing the bodies natural production of melatonin after months of use). This should help to get you naturally feeling tired around that time, as well as increasing the quality of sleep you get. Simply sleeping is not enough, you need to get the right amount of cycles of REM and Non-REM (deep) sleep. It sounds like a lot of work, but chronically getting even a just a little less sleep than you need can cause tons of mood/cognitive issues. Even just an hour too little can make a huge difference. I suggest reading Wikipedia's description of the physiology of sleep for more details.
#5
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 02:55 AM
Aniracetam is inconvenient because it is so short lived, so I would better go with L-Theanine.
Disagree with this post. I've been taking aniracetam for almost a year now and the effects have not changed or decresed in time.
I can say that I have "upped" my dosage in the recent 2 months. Maybe there is a tolerance build up for the aniracetam.
Would it hurt to use aniracetam and l-theanine together?
I do not have anxiety, but I would like to note that I have read outstanding journals pertaining to aniracetam use and social anxiety.
He goes by the name sanguine_rogue. You should read up on his post about l-theanine and aniracetam. He has both in his stack.
Have you also tried using sulbutiamine and aniracetam together?
The effects are incredible
#6
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:36 AM
I find Aniracetam effective in the sense that it flattens my emotions (it doesn't kill them, it just levels them out). So really exciting things seem less exciting than normal, and upsetting things seem less upsetting than usual. Basically emotional extremes are reduced. I find this effective for anxiety, as unlike GABA substances, there is no tranquilizing effect, in fact, the ACh part will increase attention span and focus. Aniracetam just affects emotions, rather than overall cognition.
However, I find Aniracetam is not effective enough for the more tense scenarios, it takes the edge off of day to day tension without negative consequences, but it's not very potent. For the more extreme occasional things, I take Phenibut (GABAergic), but that should only really be taken at most 4 times a month (spread far apart).
However, I find Aniracetam is not effective enough for the more tense scenarios, it takes the edge off of day to day tension without negative consequences, but it's not very potent. For the more extreme occasional things, I take Phenibut (GABAergic), but that should only really be taken at most 4 times a month (spread far apart).
#7
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Posted 10 March 2013 - 08:38 PM
GetOutOfBox is pretty spot on.
Aniracetam also seems to flatten my emotions a bit. I don't get as anxious, but I actually do feel flattened and care a bit less which isn't really a good thing for me in most social situations, since giving up or not trying because the outlook doesn't seem good at the time is a big problem for me. So, if you are like me, then aniracetam may not be the best if you are trying to be social or get out of the house or something because you may feel more relaxed and flattened, but it doesn't help with motivation, and I think it makes me more boring to talk to.
Theanine makes me feel a bit more collected and makes thoughts race a bit less, but to be honest, it isn't going to calm you if the situation is intense.
I think theanine is a bit more helpful for me, but neither are really good for the most intense social situations. Theanine is the best if you can't stop worrying about something, like if you are sitting at home and worrying about the same thing all night, then theanine is pretty useful to take the edge off.
Aniracetam also seems to flatten my emotions a bit. I don't get as anxious, but I actually do feel flattened and care a bit less which isn't really a good thing for me in most social situations, since giving up or not trying because the outlook doesn't seem good at the time is a big problem for me. So, if you are like me, then aniracetam may not be the best if you are trying to be social or get out of the house or something because you may feel more relaxed and flattened, but it doesn't help with motivation, and I think it makes me more boring to talk to.
Theanine makes me feel a bit more collected and makes thoughts race a bit less, but to be honest, it isn't going to calm you if the situation is intense.
I think theanine is a bit more helpful for me, but neither are really good for the most intense social situations. Theanine is the best if you can't stop worrying about something, like if you are sitting at home and worrying about the same thing all night, then theanine is pretty useful to take the edge off.
#8
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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:02 PM
L theanine is very very subtle but effective.
I just recently ran out after taking it daily for six months. I experienced no crash when I stopped in the past, so I wasn't worried about having any problems this time either.
This is day three, and while there's still no withdrawal and I haven't even thought about l-theanine at all until I saw this thread, I'm starting to notice the absence of the theanine's effects now that they're gone.
I just recently ran out after taking it daily for six months. I experienced no crash when I stopped in the past, so I wasn't worried about having any problems this time either.
This is day three, and while there's still no withdrawal and I haven't even thought about l-theanine at all until I saw this thread, I'm starting to notice the absence of the theanine's effects now that they're gone.
Edited by moleface, 12 March 2013 - 05:04 PM.
#11
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Posted 13 March 2013 - 04:31 AM
GetOutOfBox is pretty spot on.
Aniracetam also seems to flatten my emotions a bit. I don't get as anxious, but I actually do feel flattened and care a bit less which isn't really a good thing for me in most social situations, since giving up or not trying because the outlook doesn't seem good at the time is a big problem for me. So, if you are like me, then aniracetam may not be the best if you are trying to be social or get out of the house or something because you may feel more relaxed and flattened, but it doesn't help with motivation, and I think it makes me more boring to talk to.
Theanine makes me feel a bit more collected and makes thoughts race a bit less, but to be honest, it isn't going to calm you if the situation is intense.
I think theanine is a bit more helpful for me, but neither are really good for the most intense social situations. Theanine is the best if you can't stop worrying about something, like if you are sitting at home and worrying about the same thing all night, then theanine is pretty useful to take the edge off.
I completely concur with this. I don't find theanine to be particularly anxiolytic, that is to say it doesn't specifically suppress anxiety, I find it simply encourages a more focused, relaxed mind. It won't help with reducing the anxiety itself, but it might help with the racing thoughts associated with anxiety. I find it to be sort of a mood stabilizer.
Like brainslug said, it won't help with intense anxiety (especially panic attacks), but it may tame very mild anxiety, specifically the panicky thoughts it tends to bring. For full-blown anxiety however, you'll probably need either Aniracetam, or for very rare occasions, a GABA substance like Phenibut or Picamilon. Just keep in mind that GABA substances are very addictive. I took 1.5 grams of Phenibut, once a day for 2 days in a row, and experienced some really, really bad rebound anxiety the day after. Not everyone reacts so badly, some people can pull off taking it daily for a week, but I'd advise being very cautious with it. I didn't even put two and two together until I realized that I wasn't feeling normal anxiety, I was having a full blown panic attack over a stressor that I can usually handle fairly well. I'd only use a GABA substance for an occasion, not daily.
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