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Resveratrol, PPARδ/PPARγ agonists, AICAR etc.

resveratrol aicar ppar exercise in a pill fat loss weight loss

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#31 blood

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 05:26 AM

I've thrown caution to the wind, and added 80 mg Telmisartan to my daily routine this week.

(I'm dealing with some prehypertension; the telmisarten has kicked my systolic bp back into the sub 120 range almost overnight, which is pleasing).

The telmisartan has possibly improved my endurance. I jog for about 50 mins twice a week, and the jog was noticeably less effortful the past two times. I had to remind myself on a few occasions to slow down, to avoid hurting my joints/ ligaments/ whatever. But, a catchy song on my iPod can also improve my endurance, so take these observations with a grain of salt...

I'm at my lowest weight & BMI ever (since deciding I needed to drop weight). I was hoping to maintain lean muscle mass as I lost weight. My body fat has actually gone up this past week - from 16.1 to 16.7. (Wonder if this could be an artefact of the bp medication? Maybe I e.g., have less blood volume? But I don't think ARBs would have much effect on blood volume, would they?) Hopefully my body fat will decline over coming weeks.

#32 tunt01

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:55 PM

Telmisartan really should improve your endurance. The metabolic pathways have been characterized, cheaters in a lot of endurance sports like cycling use it for a reason.

You can get a BP machine off ebay or amazon.

Not sure on fat gain w/ ARB.

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#33 blood

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 04:25 PM

Not sure on fat gain w/ ARB.


Just to clarify, I haven't gained fat in absolute terms, it's just that the ratio of fat to muscle increased slightly (in the context of weight loss). It could have nothing to do with starting the telmisartan. Maybe I'm not eating enough protein. It might be folly reading too much into day to day fluctuations.

Edit: just remembered, I ran out of melatonin, and have been sleeping fretfully all week. Perhaps this was part of the problem this week.

Edited by blood, 01 November 2013 - 04:56 PM.


#34 tunt01

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 06:57 PM

The difference in body fat may be so minor as to not be statistically useful anyway. If the measuring instrument you are using isn't extremely precise, a difference between 16.1 and 16.7 may not statistically valid or useful.

#35 blood

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:01 AM

The difference in body fat may be so minor as to not be... useful anyway.


I'm using a fitbit aria. Measurements for weight and body fat do vary through the day according to what I eat and drink. But I take a measurement first thing in the morning, after visiting the bathroom, & prior to eating/ drinking anything. Following this protocol, rarely does the body fat reading shift more than 0.1% or 0.2% in a day. Mostly it has been trending downward, or holding steady, over recent months. So it was odd & alarming to see it climb from 16.1 to 16.7 in the course of a week.

At any rate, my body fat reading has climbed back down to 16.3%.

I like being on telmisartan. Unrelated to fat loss & PPAR delta agonism - I believe I have noticed a few mild, beneficial cognitive effects from telmisartan. One of which is a slight reduction in anxiety. This past week I observed moments of eery quietness in my mind (where previously there might have been an anxious background chatter, along with physical symptoms). It feels a bit strange but it's not unwelcome. Angiotensin II is apparently stress hormone of sorts, so I suppose this isn't surprising.

#36 tunt01

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 02:22 PM

I like being on telmisartan. Unrelated to fat loss & PPAR delta agonism - I believe I have noticed a few mild, beneficial cognitive effects from telmisartan. One of which is a slight reduction in anxiety. This past week I observed moments of eery quietness in my mind (where previously there might have been an anxious background chatter, along with physical symptoms). It feels a bit strange but it's not unwelcome. Angiotensin II is apparently stress hormone of sorts, so I suppose this isn't surprising.


It is neuroprotective via SIRT1, ppar-gamma.

#37 blood

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:46 AM

My body fat has actually gone up this past week - from 16.1 to 16.7. (Wonder if this could be an artefact of the bp medication?


Telmisarten does have some degree of diuretic action; antagonism of angiotensin II apparently "reduces the action of aldosterone on the kidneys". Maybe alterations in body fluid volume could cause a change in body fat readings (estimated by biolelectrical impedance analysis) without any real change in fat percentage.


http://www.netdoctor...l#ixzz2jf0TJTCL
Telmisartan blocks the receptors that angiotensin II acts on, and so prevents its actions. The main result of this is that the peripheral blood vessels are allowed to widen, which means that there is more space and less resistance in these blood vessels. This is the main mechanism by which the pressure in the blood vessels is lowered.

Blocking the actions of angiotensin II also reduces the action of aldosterone on the kidneys. The result of this is an increase in the amount of fluid removed from the blood by the kidneys. This decreases the amount of fluid in the blood vessels, which also lessens the resistance and pressure in the blood vessels.



#38 APBT

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:49 PM

This site claims to have AiCAR, legit or not I've no idea.
http://server510.web....x=0&submit.y=0#

#39 maxwatt

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:45 PM

Looks sketchy, and you'd have to be relatively wealthy at that price to get a sufficient amount to have an effect. And it's a low price compared to published prices I've seen.

#40 APBT

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:03 PM

Looks sketchy, and you'd have to be relatively wealthy at that price to get a sufficient amount to have an effect. And it's a low price compared to published prices I've seen.

Yeah, I kinda had the same thought. FWIW, here's the site it was linked from.
http://superhumangear.wordpress.com/

#41 maxwatt

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:24 PM

On the other hand, if you have high blood pressure you can get a script for Telmisartan, or you can try magnolia extract, or bitter melon extract.

#42 blood

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:03 AM

My weight loss has stalled, possibly simply because I am eating too much, also probably because I've been somewhat less active over the past two weeks. Nevertheless, my abdomen looks somewhat smaller & narrower.

My body fat % is steadily declining - measuring at 15.3% this morning. (It was at ~16.3% roughly two weeks ago).

I'm trying out luteolin at 50 mg/ day as an alternative to resveratrol which doesn't seem to agree with me. I've been taking the luteolin for several days. I am experiencing some inhibition of appetite (similar to what I get with a high - say 300 mg - dose of grape seed extract). I also notice a very slight - just barely noticeable - pain in my wrist and other parts of my limbs towards the end of the day (similar to what I experience with much higher doses of resveratrol). Luteolin also seems to induce increased alertness/ wakefulness (similar to the effect of a cup of tea, say).

Edited by blood, 19 November 2013 - 06:20 AM.


#43 blood

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 11:59 AM

My body fat % is steadily declining - measuring at 15.3% this morning. (It was at ~16.3% roughly two weeks ago).


My body fatness read at 14.1% today. Not sure if I believe the figure - there is still a layer of subcutaneous fat on my abdomen & upper chest which I can grab onto.

Loss of weight has stalled - but at least I'm losing fat, right?

I should mention I've also added magnesium to my supplement routine over the past few weeks at around 1 gram/ day. Magnesium intake is linked to lower body fatness, although it's not clear if the link is causative.

Edited by blood, 01 December 2013 - 12:02 PM.


#44 malbecman

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:27 PM

Here are two good recent articles which discuss RSV, AiCAR, Bezafibrate, rapamycin and other compounds:


Pharmacological approaches to restore mitochondrial function Nature Reviews Drug Discovery 12, 465–483 (2013)
Mitochondrial dysfunction is not only a hallmark of rare inherited mitochondrial disorders but also implicated in age-related diseases, including those that affect the metabolic and nervous system, such as type 2 diabetes and Parkinson's disease. Numerous pathways maintain and/or restore proper mitochondrial function, including mitochondrial biogenesis, mitochondrial dynamics, mitophagy and the mitochondrial unfolded protein response. New and powerful phenotypic assays in cell-based models as well as multicellular organisms have been developed to explore these different aspects of mitochondrial function. Modulating mitochondrial function has therefore emerged as an attractive therapeutic strategy for several diseases, which has spurred active drug discovery efforts in this area.


_________________________________________________________________________________

Br J Pharmacol. 2013 Sep 18. doi: 10.1111/bph.12413. [Epub ahead of print]
Turn up the power - pharmacological activation of mitochondrial biogenesis in mouse models.
Komen JC, Thorburn DR. Murdoch Childrens Research Institute, Royal Children's Hospital, Flemington Road, Parkville, VIC 3052, Australia.
Abstract
The oxidative phosphorylation (OXPHOS) system in mitochondria is responsible for the generation of the majority of cellular energy in the form of ATP. Patients with genetic OXPHOS disorders form the largest group of inborn errors of metabolism. Unfortunately, there is still a lack of efficient therapies for these disorders other than management of symptoms. Developing therapies has been complicated because, although the total group of OXPHOS patients is relatively large, there is enormous clinical and genetic heterogeneity within this patient population. Thus there has been a lot of interest in generating relevant mouse models for the different kinds of OXPHOS disorders. The most common treatment strategies tested in these mouse models have aimed to upregulate mitochondrial biogenesis, with the rationale of increasing the residual OXPHOS activity present in affected animals and thereby ameliorating the energy deficiency. Drugs such as bezafibrate, resveratrol and AICAR target the master regulator of mitochondrial biogenesis PGC-1α either directly or indirectly to manipulate mitochondrial metabolism. This review will summarize the outcome of pre-clinical treatment trials with these drugs in mouse models of OXPHOS disorders and discuss similar treatments in a number of mouse models of common diseases in which pathology is closely linked to mitochondrial dysfunction. In the majority of these studies the pharmacological activation of the PGC-1α axis shows true potential as therapy, however other effects besides mitochondrial biogenesis may be contributing to this as well. This article is protected by copyright. All rights reserved.
KEYWORDS: AICAR, PGC-1α, bezafibrate, mitochondria, mitochondrial biogenesis, mitochondrial disease, mouse models, oxidative phosphorylation, resveratrol
PMID: 24102298


Figure 1 in the 1st paper is especially helpful as it shows most of the compounds and their sites of action:


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#45 blood

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 08:33 AM

My body fat has levelled out at 14-15%, with my regimen of telmisartan, metformin, reduced calories, & mild exercise (brisk walking) on most days. It seems that I've lost quite a bit of bulk from around my abdomen (and also from around my neck), but I'm not hopeful of getting to a lower body fat level with the currant regimen. Therefore, I've decided to try out Mark McCarty's mini-fast protocol (which I learned about from a post by Darryl). In a nutshell, I'll be extending the overnight fast by skipping breakfast, & doing vigorous aerobic exercise in the morning. I've obtained an exercise bike (I'm thinking daily use of a stationary bike is less likely to produce damaged ligaments, tendons compared to e.g., jogging). I'll be taking a few supplements prior to exercise: two cups coffee, and 1 gm ALCAR. The coffee is to wake me up. :) I'll continue taking the telmisartan, and also continue to aim for around 10,000 steps a day (walking to & from work, morning and afternoon, allows me reach this goal). It's difficult for me to assess to what extent Telmisartan has been helpful with reduction of subcutaneous & visceral fat. It's not a miracle fat loss drug. I do associate a vague improvement in wellbeing with commencement of telmisartan, though. Maybe it's an anti-anxiety effect?


http://catalyticlong...thexcercise.pdf (full text)

Med Hypotheses. 2009 Oct;73(4):619-22. doi: 10.1016/j.mehy.2008.09.063. Epub 2009 Jul 3.

A "mini-fast with exercise" protocol for fat loss.

Bahadori B, McCarty MF, Barroso-Aranda J, Gustin JC, Contreras F.

Author information

Abstract

From the standpoint of promoting leanness, exercise is of most value if oxidation of stored fat is maximized during and following the exercise sessions. Bahadori has proposed that this can best be achieved if prolonged exercise of moderate intensity is performed during a 12-14 h "mini-fast" that entails skipping a meal; if subsequent food consumption features low-fat foods, the fat stores expended during and after the exercise will not be fully repleted by dietary fat. Thus, prolonged compliance with such a regimen should lead to steady loss of body fat until a much leaner equilibrium body composition is attained. The feasibility and efficacy of this strategy has been examined in an open pilot study. Participants were asked to perform prolonged, moderate-intensity aerobic exercise at least 3-5 times weekly, nesting each exercise session within a 12-14 h mini-fast. No restrictions were placed on daily calorie consumption, but low-fat, low-glycemic-index food choices were recommended. Of the 34 subjects originally enrolled, 27 returned for follow-up evaluations at 6 and 12 weeks. During the 12 week study, the average fat loss in these 27 subjects - 7.4 kg - corresponded to one-quarter of their baseline fat mass. Fasting insulin levels likewise fell by 25%. The rate of fat loss was at least as great in the second 6 weeks as in the first, suggesting that fat loss might have persisted for some time if the study had been prolonged. This protocol, combining elements of exercise training, fasting, and low-fat eating, is both sustainable and healthful, and in reasonably compliant subjects may have considerable potential for promoting and maintaining leanness and insulin sensitivity.


PMID: 19577377 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Edited by blood, 23 January 2014 - 08:35 AM.


#46 blood

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:58 PM

Interesting clinical study showing that another PPAR-gamma agonist (pioglitazine) can accelerate visceral fat loss in non-diabetic, but overweight, men who are dieting for weight loss:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3091968/


The Effect of Pioglitazone and Resistance Training on Body Composition in Older Men and Women Undergoing Hypocaloric Weight Loss


Abstract


Age-related increases in ectopic fat accumulation are associated with greater risk for metabolic and cardiovascular diseases, and physical disability. Reducing skeletal muscle fat and preserving lean tissue are associated with improved physical function in older adults. PPARγ-agonist treatment decreases abdominal visceral adipose tissue (VAT) and resistance training preserves lean tissue, but their effect on ectopic fat depots in nondiabetic overweight adults is unclear. We examined the influence of pioglitazone and resistance training on body composition in older (65–79 years) nondiabetic overweight/obese men (n = 48, BMI = 32.3 ± 3.8 kg/m2) and women (n = 40, BMI = 33.3 ± 4.9 kg/m2) during weight loss. All participants underwent a 16-week hypocaloric weight-loss program and were randomized to receive pioglitazone (30 mg/day) or no pioglitazone with or without resistance training, following a 2 × 2 factorial design. Regional body composition was measured at baseline and follow-up using computed tomography (CT). Lean mass was measured using dual X-ray absorptiometry. Men lost 6.6% and women lost 6.5% of initial body mass. The percent of fat loss varied across individual compartments. Men who were given pioglitazone lost more visceral abdominal fat than men who were not given pioglitazone (−1,160 vs. −647 cm3, P = 0.007). Women who were given pioglitazone lost less thigh subcutaneous fat (−104 vs. −298 cm3, P = 0.002). Pioglitazone did not affect any other outcomes. Resistance training diminished thigh muscle loss in men and women (resistance training vs. no resistance training men: −43 vs. −88 cm3, P = 0.005; women: −34 vs. −59 cm3, P = 0.04). In overweight/obese older men undergoing weight loss, pioglitazone increased visceral fat loss and resistance training reduced skeletal muscle loss. Additional studies are needed to clarify the observed gender differences and evaluate how these changes in body composition influence functional status.


Edited by blood, 26 January 2014 - 11:14 PM.


#47 blood

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:13 PM


J Cell Mol Med. 2011 Jul;15(7):1572-81. doi: 10.1111/j.1582-4934.2010.01085.x. Epub 2010 May 14.



Angiotensin II receptor blocker telmisartan enhances running endurance of skeletal muscle through activation of the PPAR-δ/AMPK pathway.


Feng X, Luo Z, Ma L, Ma S, Yang D, Zhao Z, Yan Z, He H, Cao T, Liu D, Zhu Z.




Abstract



Clinical trials have shown that angiotensin II receptor blockers reduce the new onset of diabetes in hypertensives; however, the underlying mechanisms remain unknown. We investigated the effects of telmisartan on peroxisome proliferator activated receptor γ (PPAR-δ) and the adenosine monophosphate (AMP)-activated protein kinase (AMPK) pathway in cultured myotubes, as well as on the running endurance of wild-type and PPAR-δ-deficient mice. Administration of telmisartan up-regulated levels of PPAR-δ and phospho-AMPKα in cultured myotubes. However, PPAR-δ gene deficiency completely abolished the telmisartan effect on phospho-AMPKαin vitro. Chronic administration of telmisartan remarkably prevented weightgain, enhanced running endurance and post-exercise oxygen consumption, and increased slow-twitch skeletal muscle fibres in wild-type mice, but these effects were absent in PPAR-δ-deficient mice. The mechanism is involved in PPAR-δ-mediated stimulation of the AMPK pathway. Compared to the control mice, phospho-AMPKα level in skeletal muscle was up-regulated in mice treated with telmisartan. In contrast, phospho-AMPKα expression in skeletal muscle was unchanged in PPAR-δ-deficient mice treated with telmisartan. These findings highlight the ability of telmisartan to improve skeletal muscle function, and they implicate PPAR-δ as a potential therapeutic target for the prevention of type 2 diabetes.
© 2011 The Authors Journal of Cellular and Molecular Medicine © 2011 Foundation for Cellular and Molecular Medicine/Blackwell Publishing Ltd.


PMID: 20477906 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



#48 ikon2

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 01:00 PM

What dosage of Telmisartan are people taking?  What is the lowest dosage that one might realize a reasonable benefit?



#49 APBT

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 04:24 PM

Another (potential) source for AICAR:  http://www.tht.co/ph...metabolic/aicar

 



#50 tunt01

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 06:00 PM

What dosage of Telmisartan are people taking?  What is the lowest dosage that one might realize a reasonable benefit?

 

My guess is that a low dose would be about 10 mg for a 60 kg individual.  I've only seen 20 mg tablets, such that breaking them in half is possible.  This journal article here which evaluates a low dose strategy in mice is equivalent to about 5 mg in a 60 kg individual.  I personally think a 20 mg dose is probably fine for a lower dose strategy.  I think a more standard dose for an adult is 2-4x that.  Effects are probably dose dependent, such that a little higher than the lowest dose is probably more useful (all other things being equal).

 


Edited by prophets, 15 November 2014 - 06:06 PM.

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#51 datrat

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 08:35 PM

 

What dosage of Telmisartan are people taking?  What is the lowest dosage that one might realize a reasonable benefit?

 

My guess is that a low dose would be about 10 mg for a 60 kg individual.  I've only seen 20 mg tablets, such that breaking them in half is possible.  This journal article here which evaluates a low dose strategy in mice is equivalent to about 5 mg in a 60 kg individual.  I personally think a 20 mg dose is probably fine for a lower dose strategy.  I think a more standard dose for an adult is 2-4x that.  Effects are probably dose dependent, such that a little higher than the lowest dose is probably more useful (all other things being equal).

 

 

I can't remember the study on humans and don't have time to search for it right now, it is on pubmed though, the study stated that 40 mg was ineffective for lipolysis, only 80 mg was effective IIRC.
 



#52 datrat

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 11:50 PM

Sorry, found the study and it wasn't exactly lipolysis, it was an increase in adiponectin, which is involved in both regulating blood glucose levels and fatty acid breakdowns.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22821644   



#53 ikon2

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 07:38 PM

Thank you to both prophets and datrat, I think I'll start with 20 then go to 40-50 but monitor my bp.  Again, thank you both!



#54 Vastmandana

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 09:01 AM

The latest issue of LEF mag is on NR and ampk activation using Gynostemma pentaphyllum....

 

per here

An extract of the plant Gynostemma pentaphyllum was traditionally used in Asian medicine to promote longevity and scientists now know why—G. pentaphyllum promotes AMPK activation.8-10 In one of many studies showing a wide variety of benefits, researchers documented a 1-inch reduction in abdominal circumference in overweight individuals who took 450 mg daily of G. pentaphyllum extract for 12 weeks.

 

a lengthy discussion is in the issue...

 

FWIW, I ordered two Gynostemma pentaphyllum plants and have them nicely potted up and hope to be harvesting next year.

 

Also, LEF mentions Trans-Tiliroside as another AMPK activator in their formulation but I can't find another source for this so guess I'll be ordering a slew of their  AMPK activators during their super sale, which is ongoing... after BF recording gear expenses its going to be a challenging couple months financially!


Edited by Vastmandana, 30 November 2014 - 09:37 AM.

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#55 pleiotropic

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 01:34 AM

Anyone here still using Telmisartan as a PED?  Post an update if so.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: resveratrol, aicar, ppar, exercise in a pill, fat loss, weight loss

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