I don't know how applicable this is, but I find Alpha GPC incredibly mood stabilizing, it could also address your suspected choline deficiency fast.
I think the NAC is a good bet, as its also a potent antioxidant. You should just look at getting as many servings of fruit and vegetables you can every day - and add NAC on top of that. You wanna get rid of that brain fog first, its going to be the most annoying thing for now. You can deal with returning to your former cognitive capabilities later.
During the first few months after my cerebral accident I had really bad brain fog, at that time rhodiola helped me substantially in recovering my brain speed.
Hi, FreelyFlourish, this is too bad, from what you've presented in this thread, it appears you have mercury poisoning. If this turns out to be the case and you don't treat it in a way that respects the laws of nature, you will get worse indefinitely. If this is what it appears to be, I hope you are well enough to take in and comprehend everything what follows. If you are as mercury toxic as your description of what's been going on with you gives the appearance of, you are now in this for the long haul as it typically takes several years of concentrated effort to fully recover. Recovery is difficult but can be achieved. Forget about school for now. Keep living at home and maybe hold down a part time job to pay for your treatment. I so wish someone had been there to give me this information 10 years ago, so I'm going to share it with you now. This is going to be a little dense, please stick with it until full comprehension, if you don't the rest of your life will be dysfunctional.
What you've experienced since you started taking this ALA containing focus supplement is the expected, textbook result of taking ALA with mercury amalgam fillings in place. Even after the amalgams have been removed, taking ALA on a schedule which doesn't respect the kinetics and half-life of ALA in the body will cause the same reaction until all the mercury has been either excreted or chelated from the body. Once a person has removed the source of the mercury exposure, in your case amalgam fillings, and chelated all the mercury from both the body and brain then ALA will become a useful supplement that can be taken on any schedule.
renfr is correct that Vitamin C will be helpful. While I appreciate that renfr is trying to help, everything else being recommended is wrong and will make you much worse. Any person who recommends consuming monothiols like NAC and MSM to get mercury out of the body doesn't have the vaguest comprehension of the relevant chemistry. MSM and NAC are in fact worse than ineffective in terms of detox and will harm you by dragging mercury around inside you without removing it. This is because they have no stronger affinity for Hg then do all the monothiols that are part of your body, so the best they can do is relocate the mercury inside you so it does it's damage in a new location. This is exactly what using the ALA in the focus supplement has been doing. The ALA picks up the mercury with it's thiol groups and then as the level of ALA drops as it's half-life approaches and is passed the mercury, which has been temporarily suspended and prevented from damaging wherever it was damaging before the ALA picked it up, lands in and damages a new place in you. Mercury is known to concentrate in the mitochondria of your cells, this is why you feel energetic when you take the focus supplement. The ALA is briefly chelating the mercury and suspending it away from the mitochondria where it's been creating a cascade of oxidation which reduces the amount of energy the mitochondria can produce. While the ALA has the mercury chelated you have more energy, then the ALA gets metabolized and it's level in the blood and tissue drops and as that happens the mercury settles in a new location, damaging that area. Since mercury tends to end up in the mitochondria, as it settles there you feel tired, or if your dose of ALA is to high, even wiped out. I recall once taking a particularly large dose of ALA and being almost unable to move a few hours later, then I got sick the next day because this redistribution event as they are called also temporarily knocks down your immune system.
This quote of yours describes exactly how a Hg toxic person responds to ALA: "I guinea pig'd myself last week and took the focus formula again for my radio broadcast- It hit me really quick, really quick- I was up there and functioning at top knotch... Then 2 hours later I was the sleepiest I could even remember being. So unbelievable tred, when the focus formula used to keep me up for 10+ solid hours."
Unfortunately, the whole time it was keeping you up it was also moving Hg into your brain. People who know about this typically feel that ALA should be sold with a warning label. Never use anything containing ALA again as long as you still have amalgam fillings. While you still have amalgams in place it will chelate the mercury vapor you have swallowed and breathed in and escort it into your brain. Once inside your brain the elemental mercury will become oxidized in the course of normal celluar metabolism, at which point it will no longer be able to freely pass through the blood brain barrier and out of the brain. That's right, after it oxidizes it is stuck inside the brain, this is why you feel so much worse than before you used the focus supplement, the ALA moved the Hg into the brain where it oxidized and now can't get back out, but don't worry because it can be removed by proper chelation. Don't take NAC or MSM until you are sure your body and brain are cleared of mercury, these are much worse than pointless.
Some background: ALA is not a chelator, although out of convenience even those who know this often refer to it this way. ALA is metabolized to dihydrolipoic acid(DHLA) which is actually the chelator. Chelators are dithiols, a molecule with two SH groups attached, ALA is not a dithiol, DHLA is. ALA is a very small fat soluble molecule and as such is the only chelating substance known to cross the blood brain barrier or to enter the intercellular space where mercury concentrates in the mitochondria.
If you value your future, and therefore your health, you will read everything I tell you and then do your own research following on to what I've said. Look at it as a challenging project that will make a normal productive life possible if you complete it and impossible if you don't. I had to do hundreds of hours of research to get the level of comprehension I have of this issue, but when the alternative is an entire lifetime of great intellectual, and eventually even physical impairment, it is well worth it. Sadly this is not hyperbole, do your homework, it's much worse than you think, you'll see.
I've had, and to some degree still have mercury poisoning. I found your thread while researching antioxidant support for my ongoing chelation project. I've researched this issue extensively and exhaustively for a number of years starting about ten years back. Thank God or fate that I came across the work of Andrew Hall Cutler Phd, PE, because as a result I'm not broken for life as I otherwise would be. Andy has a BS in physics from UCLA, a PhD in chemistry in from Princeton and has a PE in chemical engineering in two states. A PE is a professional engineers license for which one has to pass a horrifyingly difficult exam which makes the MCAT or medical board certification look like a cakewalk. My father is a surgeon who majored in chemistry, he finished the written section of his last board certification two hours early and got the highest score out of the over 600 doctors taking it that day. Despite my mercury intoxication, which led directly to my academic failure, I was considered to be the smartest in my high school, my AP chemistry and AP english teachers, both nearing retirement, told me in obvious anger, as I was failing their classes from lack of homework despite getting the class high on almost every test, that I was the smartest student they'd ever taught. I only mention any of this as my father and I have consulted with Andy and he makes us look like intellectual chumps. It's very fortunate that Cutler was poisoned, he's a superb scientist who had a strangely perfect skill set to figure everything out, no papers have been published in English with the information needed to derive the half-life of DHLA, but they'd been published in Russian and German, both of which Andy knew well enough to translate the necessary papers.
Andy was poisoned by getting several amalgams, after which he slid into a more severe version of what you describe. Fortunately he had the technical knowledge to heal himself when none of the many doctors he saw could. Believe me, medicine is not practiced as a science, but rather a profiteering scheme. Medical schools actually encourage undergraduates to get liberal arts degrees rather than chemistry degrees, this keeps them pliable for the indoctrination the pharmaceutical corporations later give them. My uncle's also a doc, he's an internal medicine specialist and professor of medicine and my aunt as well, I know alot about the system and it went beyond broken and into outright farce a long time ago. Doctors can't help you, they don't have the relevant technical knowledge, you have to learn it and do this for yourself. It's going to require alot of time, and with the effect that mercury has on cognition and the ability to organize and complete tasks it might take awhile to get everything figured out and implemented. Getting a little better so you can function in the world is an option, but I've done it that way and I now realize that if I ever want a successful life I need to finish chelating, which as you will learn is a major inconvenience, but quite agreeable compared to the alternative.
If you can find an open minded doctor that would be willing to work with him Cutler has a consulting contract which you and your doctor both sign that allows Andy to talk to you and your doctor about your case and to recommend lab tests and interpret the results accurately. Growing up my dad was the doctor the other doctors would call at all hours of the night because they were scared and didn't know what to do, I'd be in the hospital and other doctors would tell me what a great doctor my dad was. Cutler's medical knowledge put's my father's to shame in many areas, particularly when it comes to understanding test results and making clinically useful recommendations based on them. Your doc would still have the final say in terms of prescribing and ordering tests but Cutler's level of knowledge is so convincingly high the doc would most likely want to go along with him once they heard what he had to say. The truth though is that unless you're really screwed up you probably don't need this level of care and I or any regular on the "Frequent Dose Chelation" yahoo group could tell you what to do to get better. Andy's book Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment also has most of what you need to know.
Cutler says the only truly definitive test for whether someone is mercury toxic is how they respond to a chelator. Your description of your response to the focus supplement, which contains the chelator ALA, is sadly textbook.
The first step is having your amalgam fillings removed and replaced with composite. After you've done that you can start chelating in a way that will remove mercury from your brain and body rather than just stir it around inside. There's alot more I could go into, but if you're not listening or interested I have no reason to continue for now. Let me know if this is something your going to pursue and I can fill you in on most of the details, or if you have the money and a willing doctor then give Andy a call and get a consulting contract started. If you go that way I can stil help with finding the cheapest sources for the best chelators and supplements. Good call on paleo, it's the best regardless, but if you decide to get healthy it will be best to modify it somewhat, I will provide details if you go that way.
1 - Video showing mercury vapor outgassing from a 25yr old amalgam filling:
Pay attention to the 3rd and 6th posts. Note how no one in the thread understands the kinetics of mercury in the body and how it oxidizes behind the blood brain barrier, which causes mercury to continuously build up in the brain, unlike the rest of the body from which it can be excreted even after it's been oxidized.
3 - Boyd Haley the chairman of the chemistry dept at the University of Kentucky:
yogi, I did indeed say that MSM and NAC weren't any better than ALA as to chelation however you are quoting Andy Cutler who has a specific protocol for chelation with ALA, to make it simple you have to take ALA every 3 hours including in the night to excrete out the mercury.
Also I would like to understand another thing, you are sating that MSM, NAC and ALA are counterproductive for mercury chelation because they only transport the mercury the mercury somewhere else and that's true but what I don't understand from your reasoning is that if it is transported in the bloodstream why wouldn't increased fluid intake and diuretic use excrete the bound mercury?
Is that only in the brain that it cannot get out? Are you saying that thiols cannot even transport oxidized mercury (what do you mean by oxidized, charged?)? You seem to know more than everyone here and this is interesting
I'm a bit confused now-- Does this sound like mercury poisening or was the guy above just trying to make a sale? I have been taking the piracetam for a few days with no reduction whatsoever in the neurological symptoms...
I am getting very discouraged, this has gone on for way too long.
At nighttime, it's as if I close my eyes and think thoughts for the entirety of the night, randomly opening them to see if it's still nighttime. As if i never actually fall asleep- I just lay there with my eyes closed thinking ALL night if that makes sense. The neurological symptoms get much much worse every evening around 6pm right after I eat on my lunch break at work... I don't know if any of this helps you all, but I need some help
MSM and NAC are not chelators, they have single thiol groups. ALA or rather DHLA, the molecule ALA is reduced to inside the mitochondra, is a dithiol and therefore a chelator. The root of chelate means claw, in other words to grasp the Hg as a dithiol does. The two thiol groups per molecule provide a powerful enough hold on the Hg to prevent it from just bouncing around inside the body as it does when substances having a lot of single thiol groups are consumed. The strength of the bond between mercury and a single thiol group is enough to mobilize the mercury by knocking it free of the single thiol group it's already stuck to in the body, but the bond isn't strong enough to prevent it from brushing off on the next thiol group it touches in the body, and single thiol groups are very numerous inside the body, so this happens a lot. Substances with alot of single thiol groups will turn your body into a mercury pinball machine. Dithiols form a much stronger bond and enough of the Hg will stay attached for long enough for substantial amounts of it to be excreted as the complex it forms with DHLA. I don't know if the body even has a mechanism for eliminating a single thiol group. One may as well eat food that contains a lot of free thiols like eggs, dairy or cruciferous vegetables as use MSM and NAC. High thiol foods and supplements will in some cases make a mercury toxic person more symptomatic, adopting a low thiol diet will often decrease symptoms, particularly during a round of chelation when ALA/DHLA has brought a bunch of mercury into extracellular spaces.
Here's a list of high and low thiol foods, take note of the symptoms described in the second paragraph and the timeline of these symptoms, which impiles one needs to cut them out for at least a week or two before reintroducing them to know if they're causing any problems: http://www.livingnet...phur-food-list/
I never said ALA was counterproductive for mercury chelation, I explained the effect it has when taken infrequently. It is in fact the only substance that will remove mercury from the brain. For it to work as a chelator without simultaneously messing you up it has to be taken in sufficiently small doses and frequently enough to maintain reasonably steady blood and tissues levels of DHLA, the actual dithiol chelator which ALA is reduced to in the mitochondria. The protocol officially says to take it at least every three hours during the day and every 4 hours at night. If you go read through the yahoo group you will find that in practice very few people really get away with every four hours at night and that a few even need to take it every 2hrs during the day. John described becoming very tired around 2hrs after using the ALA containing Windmill: Focus Formula (I love how manic the marketing on this product makes it sound). This might indicate that he's a fast metabolizer who needs to take ALA every two hours during a round of chelation. Many people have trouble if they try to stretch the doses at night out to every four hours.
I looked into sleep architecture and I think that dosing every 2hrs at night would be better than every 3hrs because the first sleep cycle is typically around 90min long, with the subsequent cycles being about 2hrs each. When one is woken during the middle of a sleep cycle the cycle is wasted, so by getting a full sleep cycle in between alarms and chelator doses at night you're actually better off than waking up every three hours at night and interrupting a cycle each time. I haven't tried this myself but am planning to start chelating again soon and this time I'm going to try every 2hr dosing at night.
ALA is the only chelator which is known to cross the blood brain barrier. It's also the only one go inside cells and get mercury out from there. ALA is required in addition to or instead of DMPS or DMSA to get the mercury out of these areas. The body does exrete it's mercury burden on it's own over time, so for someone like me who had their amalgams out 7 years ago, what remains is mostly in the brain.
"if it is transported in the bloodstream why wouldn't increased fluid intake and diuretic use excrete the bound mercury?"
I don't know. Andy could give you an answer. I do know that mercury is no more attracted to NAC and MSM then it is to the many, many thiol molecules in your own body. I also know that mercury does not hang around outside cells, it tends to stay inside them unless something escorts it out. Do the thiol groups from NAC and MSM make it into cells? I don't know. Even if they do, they're unlikely to escort the Hg outside of the cell before the Hg runs into a thiol that's part of the cell and sticks there. I know that ALA/DHLA is the only chelator to get inside the cell.
None of this matters though as the primary problem is MERCURY INSIDE THE BRAIN. After it oxidizes into the highly toxic mercuric mercury ion (Hg++) it may form an inorganic salt or remain as mercuric mercury, but it's no longer fat soluble and able to cross the blood brain barrier unless it is chelated by DHLA, otherwise it stays in the brain forever. If you read the fourth link in my last post, I think this is addressed. MSM, NAC, ice cream, omlets, fondue, whatever the thiol source, they will never help to get any mercury out of the brain, period. It has to be tightly chelated by a fat soluble molecule to form a fat soluble complex that will cross the BBB and dihydrolipoic acid is the chelator for sale that does this.
John has three options.
1. Never chelate: in this case the mercury is a permanent addition to his neurological functioning. If he chooses this option he's fucked for life. Forget about ever accomplishing much and depending on how much Hg has now oxidized to Hg++ and possibly formed salts of mercury inside his brain he may be mildly to profoundly dysfunctional till the day he dies, with alzheimers or maybe MS to look forwards to. If he never gets the amalgams removed, inwhich case his body as well as brain will have a chronic Hg burden maybe he can add in diabetes, heart disease or cancer. Hg is one of the most potent toxins known and considered by many to be the most potent neurotoxin.
2. Chelate with a dangerous protocol. Cutler is the only person on earth who's attempted to figure out how to chelate who actually had sufficient intellect and knowledge to do so. I come from a family of doctors, they are drones for the pharmaceutical companies. Even the smartest and most highly educated among them lack the technical knowledge and the training in problem solving that an engineer has and that's required to solve a problem like chelation. Doctors are trained to apply rote formulas to problems, they are never trained to think critically or problem solve. There are many PhDs, scientists and engineers, working for the pharamaceutical companies who could do what Andy did. They are being paid to do more profitable things. If John chelates with a dangerous protocol he gets from some doctor he could become much worse, even permanently damaged.
3. He has his amalgams removed, then he chelates with ALA in very small frequent doses, perhaps supporting this with DMPS or DMSA. These two chelators don't cross the BBB or enter cells so anything DHLA transports out of the brain or the tissues, will be more likely to stay out and be excreted because when one of these is used there's a higher concentration of chelator outside the brain and cells/organs than inside, so the balance is shifted a bit. DMPS and DMSA aren't necessary, but they reduce side effects and get the Hg out a bit faster. DMPS is better than DMSA. ALA could be anything from 10-25mg a dose to start with and then change the dose up or down according to the side effects experienced on the round and at the redistribution event when the round is stopped. He should try to make the rounds as long as possible, according to how he feels, 3 days is really too short of a round to get much out. In the end he'll want to get to where he can take a 600mg dose of ALA and experience no ill effects. Until he gets there he will remain Hg toxic to some degree and the Hg content of his brain is unable to decrease on it's own, ALA in small frequent doses for rounds lasting for days at a time is the only practical and non-harmful way to do this.
I eat a salad with nothing but leafy greens, cucumbers and turkey, with almonds and reverse osmosis water, occasionally a banana or orange
Also, you must understand my hesitation- I have dropped out of university, been left my my girlfriend, moved back in with my parents
I have been scammed out of 1000 dollars for rife machine treatment and ionic foot baths for supposed lyme disease, I have theorized on excessive acetylcholine, systemic candida, neurological lyme disease, hormonal imbalance, etc
there are just so many things it could be, and with my cognitive functioning declining on a weekly basis, it's growing harder and harder, and I'm growing more and more paranoid of people and supposed treatments getting my hopes up
Edited by FreelyFlourish, 13 March 2013 - 04:23 AM.
Also, when I was younger i had MANY fillings in my baby teeth, these have all fallen out however being as I am older now. I looked today and don't seem to have any fillings from what I can see, though i do have a permanent retainer on the back of my top and bottom row of teeth---- could this be an issue?
I don't know if a permanent retainer involves amalgam, perhaps there's some at the connection points. If it does you will want to have it removed or have the amalgam part replaced by something else.
Sadly, because of the kinetics of mercury in the human body, which I've explained as well as I can, any mercury that entered your brain during childhood is still there. Taking anything containing ALA, DHLA, or R-ALA will move this mercury around, which will damage you unless the chelator is taken in relatively small doses on a safe protocol.
You need to find out if there is any amalgam left in your mouth. Go to the dentist and have an x-ray done, or get a dental mirror and flashlight and have a look around. If there's no silver filling material visible in your mouth and you've never had a root canal then you're in the clear. This is good news because it's removal is the largest single expense incurred during a rational and effective mercury detox protocol, everything else can be done pretty cheaply with over the counter substances.
The fact that you respond so strongly to the ALA containing Windmill stuff seems to indicate you have some degree of mercury problem. Don't take any more ALA until you're sure there's no more amalgam in your mouth. After that take it only as described by Cutler's chelation protocol.
The if the leafy greens involve anything like spinach or crucifercous veggies (kale, chard, collards, brocolli, cauliflower), this could be mobilizing the Hg left in your brain from the childhood fillings and making you feel worse.
I don't know if a permanent retainer involves amalgam, perhaps there's some at the connection points. If it does you will want to have it removed or have the amalgam part replaced by something else.
Sadly, because of the kinetics of mercury in the human body, which I've explained as well as I can, any mercury that entered your brain during childhood is still there. Taking anything containing ALA, DHLA, or R-ALA will move this mercury around, which will damage you unless the chelator is taken in relatively small doses on a safe protocol.
You need to find out if there is any amalgam left in your mouth. Go to the dentist and have an x-ray done, or get a dental mirror and flashlight and have a look around. If there's no silver filling material visible in your mouth and you've never had a root canal then you're in the clear. This is good news because it's removal is the largest single expense incurred during a rational and effective mercury detox protocol, everything else can be done pretty cheaply with over the counter substances.
The fact that you respond so strongly to the ALA containing Windmill stuff seems to indicate you have some degree of mercury problem. Don't take any more ALA until you're sure there's no more amalgam in your mouth. After that take it only as described by Cutler's chelation protocol.
The if the leafy greens involve anything like spinach or crucifercous veggies (kale, chard, collards, brocolli, cauliflower), this could be mobilizing the Hg left in your brain from the childhood fillings and making you feel worse.
I'm completely following you here, and am willing to give this all a go- but how are you so sure that it's the ALA in the Focus Formula I'm responding to and not something else in it? To my knowledge, the amount of Hup A in it is quite large, and there are a number of other cognitive enhancing substances in it. I'm just wondering what makes you so sure that it's the ALA bringing about the profound response? And Wouldn't I have started noticing symptoms earlier in the taking of the focus formula, rather than 2 months into it?
I'm not sure it's not something else in the product, ALA is just the most dangerous ingredient in the product as far as I know and is almost certain to eventually cause the symptoms you descrbe. I was going to address this but I got lazy. The way to find out is to determine the dosage of ALA you're getting from the Windmill, then go to iHerb or Amazon and buy some pure ALA in a form that will be similarly absorbable.
I just looked up the ingredients of the product. Never mind what I said about "pure ALA". It contains R-ALA which, for a Hg toxic person, is a more dangerous form because it's better and more quickly absorbed, and if I recall my Cutler, clinically seems to have a shorter half-life than ALA although the research to confirm this clinical observation has not been done. It has 50mg R-ALA in every two capsules, so buy some R-ALA in a powder in a capsule form so it will be similarly absorbed, then take roughly the same dosage as you've been taking from the Windmill stuff. If this has no effect then take twice that dosage the next day and just ramp up the dose every day until you're either taking a several hundred milligram dose or you feel badly again. If you can take huge doses of R-ALA without symptoms, you don't have a mercury issue.
Andy Cutler would tell you to not do the above if you have any amalgam in your mouth, but you can decide for yourself, the effect will be a little worse in the long run if there's some amalgam in you.
I looked at the ingredients of the Windmill product and everything but the R-ALA is very innocuous. I wasn't sure about the Huperzine A, but I looked it up and the Wikipedia entry makes it look ineffective at it's intended purpose at 200mcg (the amount in 4 capsules of the Windmill), and effective at 400mcg. Since it's side effect profile isn't like what you're describing and the side effect profile of the R-ALA is, I would bet on that being the problem.
As far as why the R-ALA wouldn't initially cause negative symptoms? I'm not sure anyone knows the exact chemistry that would cause this. I have read something from Cutler explaining how when some toxic people first start using a thiol containing substance they feel better at first and then decline. I don't recall everything he said or the mechanism for why toxic people can initially feel better on thiols that he pointed to, but I read this recently and am certain I recall it somewhat. I would speculate that your body and it's natural antioxidant defenses are gradually worn down by the repeated redistribution of the mercury. In the beginning the temporary chelation of the Hg could cause one to feel one to feel better, along with the other ingredients, some of which I know are helpful.
"It has 50mg R-ALA in every two capsules, so buy some R-ALA in a powder in a capsule form so it will be similarly absorbed, then take roughly the same dosage as you've been taking from the Windmill stuff. If this has no effect then take twice that dosage the next day and just ramp up the dose every day until you're either taking a several hundred milligram dose or you feel badly again. If you can take huge doses of R-ALA without symptoms, you don't have a mercury issue."
I'm a bit confused here- You see, these neurological symptoms I have are ALWAYS present- from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep. As stated earlier, they are made much worse in certain situations such as just after eating, when my hair is pulled back in a ponytail for work, when I turn the heater on in my car after getting out of the cold. Considering I always have these symptoms- and when I took the focus formula again after months a few weeks ago I felt, not quite normal, but functioning much better cognitively than I had ever since the symptoms began, but this effect was very quick strong and wore off very quickly, leaving me feeling absolutely awful only a couple hours after consumption. SO, that being said, what if this isn't a mercury issue, and I keep ramping up the dosage of R-ALA because my symptoms aren't getting worse?
The purpose of testing yourself with the R-ALA is to determine with absolute certainty if you have a mercury problem.
If you don't have a Hg problem R-ALA is good for you, so nothing bad will happen from taking it and then you will have found out for sure if mercury is the problem, or if the problem lies elsewhere.
There are safer ways to possibly get some insight into whether or not you have a mercury problem.
The first is by looking for exposure. Do you have any dental work that's exposing you? Any Hg exposure is too much. We already know you had substantial exposure as a child and because mercury gets trapped in the brain, just that old exposure plus your past use of the chelator R-ALA could be causing your symptoms. You need to determine for sure if you have current exposure. If you don't, then test yourself with the R-ALA. Be careful when you do this, the first time maybe even try half of whatever dose of R-ALA you took last time. Taking too high a dose of a chelator for someone who is toxic causes damage, so don't get carried away with this test if it feels like it's effecting you. If you feel negative effects from R-ALA you definitely have a Hg problem. If you determine this and decide to chelate the Hg out you will want to use frequent doses that are smaller than the one that's messing you up. Never chelate if you have any amalgam dental work including invisible root canal work.
Mercury in the brain can cause myriad strange symptoms, because it can effect any part of the brain. The brain controls all the hormones which influence your body so there's a long list of possible symptoms. Andy's book has a list and I think lists of possible symptoms can be found in the Files section of the Frequent Dose Chelation yahoo group.
At this point you don't know for certain if you have a substantial Hg problem. So first determine if you're currently exposed to it. If not, then get the R-ALA in a powder inside a capsule form in a dose of maybe half of what you took the last time you took the Windmill supplement and start testing yourself. This will determine if the old exposure is a current problem. Be careful when you test. If one has Hg intoxication taking too much chelator is damaging, but taking some and seeing if you react to it is the only way to be sure whether or not you have a problem. Just start slowly and ramp up the dose slowly each day until you're either taking alot of the R-ALA or you get a negative reaction. I'm not saying to take small frequent doses to test but rather take one dose each day and if you don't have negative side effects then increase the dose by 50% the next day and look for side effects again. I think I said to double the dose each day till you feel side effects, I now recall that this is dangerous and that a chelator dose should only be increased by 50% at once. It doesn't need to knock you on your ass, which too much ALA can do if you have a problem.
If I was you I wouldn't do this test if you have any amalgam in your mouth. If that's the case, then judging from your symptoms I would just assume there's a Hg issue and start learning how to treat it.
It can hardly be something else. ALA is indeed the most dangerous stuff in this formula, if you're unsure try ALA alone or try huperzine A alone because apart from these two.
DMAE has been hypothetized to be some bad stuff, it can act as a stimulant too, can it cause these symptoms after months of use? Maybe but probably not.
I think the mercury poisoning theory is the most plausible one knowing that you have amalgams.
Now I understand why it stays in the brain, because it turns into an ion in the brain and yes that way NAC and MSM won't do much for that matter. It is extremely important that you start removing this mercury inside your brain, because it will stay there forever and doesn't get consumed which means it perpetually oxidizes your brain that's actually very dangerous.
I did a google image search for "permanent retainer" and unless you have a very abnormal installation, it doesn't include any Hg. When you looked for amalgam, did you use a mirror to look at all surfaces of every tooth? If you've done this, and you've never had a root canal or a crown placed over amalgam, then go ahead and order the R-ALA in something small enough where you can start with about half of whatever the last dose you took was if you want to be really safe or with the same dose you took last time, depending on your best judgment.
I rethought the safety of the test and it would be healthiest for you if you separated the doses by a day or two to give your body time to recover in between doses, in case you are Hg toxic.
If you are toxic you will want to change your supplements a bit by stopping the turmeric because it's very good at increasing free thiols in the body(see the thiol foods list link I provided). You will want to add mitochondrial and neuroprotective antioxidants that have been proven in human studies along with high 6-10g/day doses of Vitamin C in a buffered ascorbate form spread out in smaller doses every few hours(magnesium ascorbate might be best, Cutler says extra mag helps with symptoms, zinc too) and high 1-1.5g/day doses of Vitamin E in a natural mixed tocopherol form. The mitochondrial and neuroprotective antioxidants that we can be sure work from human studies are Ubiquinol 300-600mg/day (jarrow at amazon is cheapest), PQQ 20-40mg/day which I think is water soluble so spread out the doses (LEF brand at amazon is cheapest), and Certified European 36% Bilberry Extract 4-6 capsules a day spread out like the Vit C, most of the bilberry extract on the market is from china which has in the past been shown to be adulterated with numerous different fillers (amazon has LEF brand, but this place on ebay is a bit cheaper - http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1438.l2649).
Wheatgrass juice might be a source of thiols too so if you test with the R-ALA and get bad news you may want to try excluding all the thiol foods you're eating now based on the list in that link.
Your following descriptions of your condition are all very classic Hg toxicity symptoms. At this point I'm really curious to find out if you have a problem from childhood exposure being stirred up by the R-ALA or not. So please get a dental mirror and check all your tooth surfaces and then start testing with the R-ALA and keep us posted.
“one day, this focus formula began making me very, very tired.“ (a possible Hg symptom because the formula has R-ALA)
“The overall fatigue grew worse, then it transformed into a remarkable brain fog and bizarre feeling of derealization.”
“Intracranial pressure began occuring,”
“complete lack of memory.”
“I began doing things such as putting the box of cereal in the fridge, going to play a song in my car from my ipod that was already playing- It just didnt register to me.”
“I just cannot remember anything right now.”
“neurofeedback testing done that showed my beta waves were remarkably low.” (I'm really into meditation, eeg research on meditation and neurofeedback and low beta is normal in Hg toxicity)
“brain fog and derealization grew much worse and very debilitating to the point I could no longer continue school.”
“poor verbal fluency”
“very poor memory recall”
“intracranial pressure”
“The majority of days I do not feel "in my head" enough to even drive, almost as if I feel really, really intoxicated.”
“giving chance to the wrong customer, asking some if they want credit or debit when holding up a paper or plastic bag after they have already paid- it's as if half my brain is just asleep.”
“My cognitive funcitoning abilities seem to be declining quite rapidly,”
I feel for you honestly. I made an account for this..
i was feeling the same way maybe 2 months ago, brain fog and everything but not the extent that you've mention. side note * i wasnt using noots or any brain supplement then*
Everyone here is just making it worse by telling you to add to what you taking..
My two cents though,
First Drop all the stuff you've been take and first do a cleanse ( i saw someone mention this and its great advice) drink tons of water for a day and flush out those stuff you've been taking.
Second, stressing will only make it worse, i know its hard to cut stress because I've been there.. (some weed will help with that, it up to you though or whatever you find kills stress for you)
Third, start taking the basics again.. Your fish oils, (ginkgo biloba with gota kula) vitamins - this really helped me, I started to feel normal again, more happy, less depressed and worried. I was just feeling happy to be alive..
Yea and dont forget to exercise, its the best food for the brain
I feel for you honestly. I made an account for this..
i was feeling the same way maybe 2 months ago, brain fog and everything but not the extent that you've mention. side note * i wasnt using noots or any brain supplement then*
Everyone here is just making it worse by telling you to add to what you taking..
My two cents though,
First Drop all the stuff you've been take and first do a cleanse ( i saw someone mention this and its great advice) drink tons of water for a day and flush out those stuff you've been taking.
Second, stressing will only make it worse, i know its hard to cut stress because I've been there.. (some weed will help with that, it up to you though or whatever you find kills stress for you)
Third, start taking the basics again.. Your fish oils, (ginkgo biloba with gota kula) vitamins - this really helped me, I started to feel normal again, more happy, less depressed and worried. I was just feeling happy to be alive..
Yea and dont forget to exercise, its the best food for the brain
Hope you feel some relief soon..
I truly appreciate you taking the time to make an account and reply, It's very hard just to keep going right now- the worst part is i'm not in any pain, it's just these damn neurological symptoms- this horrible horrible debilitating filter and head pressure I am constantly stuck in, with nervous system issues etc. I've dropped everything at a couple points in all of this and the symptoms didn't let up I'm afraid- I work at a health food store, like a local version of whole foods here in Nashville, and drink A LOT of water everyday and only take natural herbs and such right now(and have been since discontinuing the nootropic stack focus formula) I stopped excersising when the symptoms got bad 5-6ish months ago when living in chattanooga and just started again a week or two ago. It has helped my confidence, helping my mental stability and will for life, but the neurological symptoms remain severe. Not trying to discard your advice at all, my friend. I did smoke weed for about 6 years, quite frequently up until the symptoms began, then my head just began to feel very.,,, "unsafe" while high and just wanted my head to not feel inebriated, still just want that. Since the symptoms began I have smoked weed on two occasions, the first being last thanksgiving, I came home from Chattanooga and was with my old crowd and we lit one up, immediately after 2 hits my heart began palpitating very hard and very quickly. Keep in mind, I am a very seasoned bud user. This wouldn't let up, i went inside to be away from people thinking it was social anxiety- but it kept speeding up getting harder and quicker to the point it was winding me. I went to the ER and was IV injected with some drug to slow my heart rate- it was beating at 156 BPM. I got brave a tried again last week, after taking a couple xanax as precautionary measure. It was quite a success as I didn't go to the ER, however it wasn't too enjoyable. Some days I'm not depressed believe it or not, I just feel alienated and annoyed at these severely debilitating symptoms. I havent been able to read a book since these symptoms all came on. Also, to top it all off- I totaled my car two days ago in one of my really bad "states" on my way to work.
I feel for you honestly. I made an account for this..
i was feeling the same way maybe 2 months ago, brain fog and everything but not the extent that you've mention. side note * i wasnt using noots or any brain supplement then*
Everyone here is just making it worse by telling you to add to what you taking..
My two cents though,
First Drop all the stuff you've been take and first do a cleanse ( i saw someone mention this and its great advice) drink tons of water for a day and flush out those stuff you've been taking.
Second, stressing will only make it worse, i know its hard to cut stress because I've been there.. (some weed will help with that, it up to you though or whatever you find kills stress for you)
Third, start taking the basics again.. Your fish oils, (ginkgo biloba with gota kula) vitamins - this really helped me, I started to feel normal again, more happy, less depressed and worried. I was just feeling happy to be alive..
Yea and dont forget to exercise, its the best food for the brain
Hope you feel some relief soon..
I truly appreciate you taking the time to make an account and reply, It's very hard just to keep going right now- the worst part is i'm not in any pain, it's just these damn neurological symptoms- this horrible horrible debilitating filter and head pressure I am constantly stuck in, with nervous system issues etc. I've dropped everything at a couple points in all of this and the symptoms didn't let up I'm afraid- I work at a health food store, like a local version of whole foods here in Nashville, and drink A LOT of water everyday and only take natural herbs and such right now(and have been since discontinuing the nootropic stack focus formula) I stopped excersising when the symptoms got bad 5-6ish months ago when living in chattanooga and just started again a week or two ago. It has helped my confidence, helping my mental stability and will for life, but the neurological symptoms remain severe. Not trying to discard your advice at all, my friend. I did smoke weed for about 6 years, quite frequently up until the symptoms began, then my head just began to feel very.,,, "unsafe" while high and just wanted my head to not feel inebriated, still just want that. Since the symptoms began I have smoked weed on two occasions, the first being last thanksgiving, I came home from Chattanooga and was with my old crowd and we lit one up, immediately after 2 hits my heart began palpitating very hard and very quickly. Keep in mind, I am a very seasoned bud user. This wouldn't let up, i went inside to be away from people thinking it was social anxiety- but it kept speeding up getting harder and quicker to the point it was winding me. I went to the ER and was IV injected with some drug to slow my heart rate- it was beating at 156 BPM. I got brave a tried again last week, after taking a couple xanax as precautionary measure. It was quite a success as I didn't go to the ER, however it wasn't too enjoyable. Some days I'm not depressed believe it or not, I just feel alienated and annoyed at these severely debilitating symptoms. I havent been able to read a book since these symptoms all came on. Also, to top it all off- I totaled my car two days ago in one of my really bad "states" on my way to work.
What did you take before you start having heart palpitations afraid smoking? I have those sometimes but that because of how excited I am after a session. Usually goes away though.
I started taking fish oil -1400mg this week (monday) after hearing that it repair brain cell from smoking and aging. I had a j yesterday i felt great, I was very motivated to do work, I knocked out some research that has needed to do be done for school and slept and woke up feeling better than I ever had before, normally when I smoke I feel fatigue and lethargic the next day, this wasn't the case, I figured it had something to do with the fish oil.
I just thought I'd share that. How did the piracetam make you feel BTW?
I feel for you honestly. I made an account for this..
i was feeling the same way maybe 2 months ago, brain fog and everything but not the extent that you've mention. side note * i wasnt using noots or any brain supplement then*
Everyone here is just making it worse by telling you to add to what you taking..
My two cents though,
First Drop all the stuff you've been take and first do a cleanse ( i saw someone mention this and its great advice) drink tons of water for a day and flush out those stuff you've been taking.
Second, stressing will only make it worse, i know its hard to cut stress because I've been there.. (some weed will help with that, it up to you though or whatever you find kills stress for you)
Third, start taking the basics again.. Your fish oils, (ginkgo biloba with gota kula) vitamins - this really helped me, I started to feel normal again, more happy, less depressed and worried. I was just feeling happy to be alive..
Yea and dont forget to exercise, its the best food for the brain
Hope you feel some relief soon..
I truly appreciate you taking the time to make an account and reply, It's very hard just to keep going right now- the worst part is i'm not in any pain, it's just these damn neurological symptoms- this horrible horrible debilitating filter and head pressure I am constantly stuck in, with nervous system issues etc. I've dropped everything at a couple points in all of this and the symptoms didn't let up I'm afraid- I work at a health food store, like a local version of whole foods here in Nashville, and drink A LOT of water everyday and only take natural herbs and such right now(and have been since discontinuing the nootropic stack focus formula) I stopped excersising when the symptoms got bad 5-6ish months ago when living in chattanooga and just started again a week or two ago. It has helped my confidence, helping my mental stability and will for life, but the neurological symptoms remain severe. Not trying to discard your advice at all, my friend. I did smoke weed for about 6 years, quite frequently up until the symptoms began, then my head just began to feel very.,,, "unsafe" while high and just wanted my head to not feel inebriated, still just want that. Since the symptoms began I have smoked weed on two occasions, the first being last thanksgiving, I came home from Chattanooga and was with my old crowd and we lit one up, immediately after 2 hits my heart began palpitating very hard and very quickly. Keep in mind, I am a very seasoned bud user. This wouldn't let up, i went inside to be away from people thinking it was social anxiety- but it kept speeding up getting harder and quicker to the point it was winding me. I went to the ER and was IV injected with some drug to slow my heart rate- it was beating at 156 BPM. I got brave a tried again last week, after taking a couple xanax as precautionary measure. It was quite a success as I didn't go to the ER, however it wasn't too enjoyable. Some days I'm not depressed believe it or not, I just feel alienated and annoyed at these severely debilitating symptoms. I havent been able to read a book since these symptoms all came on. Also, to top it all off- I totaled my car two days ago in one of my really bad "states" on my way to work.
What did you take before you start having heart palpitations afraid smoking? I have those sometimes but that because of how excited I am after a session. Usually goes away though.
I started taking fish oil -1400mg this week (monday) after hearing that it repair brain cell from smoking and aging. I had a j yesterday i felt great, I was very motivated to do work, I knocked out some research that has needed to do be done for school and slept and woke up feeling better than I ever had before, normally when I smoke I feel fatigue and lethargic the next day, this wasn't the case, I figured it had something to do with the fish oil.
I just thought I'd share that. How did the piracetam make you feel BTW?
The particular day, and the day before, I had the ER weed incident I hadn't taken any supplements but a multivitamin, as I left all the others back in Chattanooga and was visiting nashville to be with my family and friends. The piracetam, I used it for around 5 days, so not long enough I think, but I got no noticeable effects. No mental clarity, no improved memory recall, etc. This did rule out the possibility of excessive Acetylcholine I think, however. I want to smoke, believe me, but head just feels far too unsafe and loaded to handle inebriation. EDIT- I have been taking 1500 mg of fish oil daily as well
Edited by FreelyFlourish, 14 March 2013 - 02:08 AM.
I feel for you honestly. I made an account for this..
i was feeling the same way maybe 2 months ago, brain fog and everything but not the extent that you've mention. side note * i wasnt using noots or any brain supplement then*
Everyone here is just making it worse by telling you to add to what you taking..
My two cents though,
First Drop all the stuff you've been take and first do a cleanse ( i saw someone mention this and its great advice) drink tons of water for a day and flush out those stuff you've been taking.
Second, stressing will only make it worse, i know its hard to cut stress because I've been there.. (some weed will help with that, it up to you though or whatever you find kills stress for you)
Third, start taking the basics again.. Your fish oils, (ginkgo biloba with gota kula) vitamins - this really helped me, I started to feel normal again, more happy, less depressed and worried. I was just feeling happy to be alive..
Yea and dont forget to exercise, its the best food for the brain
Hope you feel some relief soon..
I truly appreciate you taking the time to make an account and reply, It's very hard just to keep going right now- the worst part is i'm not in any pain, it's just these damn neurological symptoms- this horrible horrible debilitating filter and head pressure I am constantly stuck in, with nervous system issues etc. I've dropped everything at a couple points in all of this and the symptoms didn't let up I'm afraid- I work at a health food store, like a local version of whole foods here in Nashville, and drink A LOT of water everyday and only take natural herbs and such right now(and have been since discontinuing the nootropic stack focus formula) I stopped excersising when the symptoms got bad 5-6ish months ago when living in chattanooga and just started again a week or two ago. It has helped my confidence, helping my mental stability and will for life, but the neurological symptoms remain severe. Not trying to discard your advice at all, my friend. I did smoke weed for about 6 years, quite frequently up until the symptoms began, then my head just began to feel very.,,, "unsafe" while high and just wanted my head to not feel inebriated, still just want that. Since the symptoms began I have smoked weed on two occasions, the first being last thanksgiving, I came home from Chattanooga and was with my old crowd and we lit one up, immediately after 2 hits my heart began palpitating very hard and very quickly. Keep in mind, I am a very seasoned bud user. This wouldn't let up, i went inside to be away from people thinking it was social anxiety- but it kept speeding up getting harder and quicker to the point it was winding me. I went to the ER and was IV injected with some drug to slow my heart rate- it was beating at 156 BPM. I got brave a tried again last week, after taking a couple xanax as precautionary measure. It was quite a success as I didn't go to the ER, however it wasn't too enjoyable. Some days I'm not depressed believe it or not, I just feel alienated and annoyed at these severely debilitating symptoms. I havent been able to read a book since these symptoms all came on. Also, to top it all off- I totaled my car two days ago in one of my really bad "states" on my way to work.
What did you take before you start having heart palpitations afraid smoking? I have those sometimes but that because of how excited I am after a session. Usually goes away though.
I started taking fish oil -1400mg this week (monday) after hearing that it repair brain cell from smoking and aging. I had a j yesterday i felt great, I was very motivated to do work, I knocked out some research that has needed to do be done for school and slept and woke up feeling better than I ever had before, normally when I smoke I feel fatigue and lethargic the next day, this wasn't the case, I figured it had something to do with the fish oil.
I just thought I'd share that. How did the piracetam make you feel BTW?
The particular day, and the day before, I had the ER weed incident I hadn't taken any supplements but a multivitamin, as I left all the others back in Chattanooga and was visiting nashville to be with my family and friends. The piracetam, I used it for around 5 days, so not long enough I think, but I got no noticeable effects. No mental clarity, no improved memory recall, etc. This did rule out the possibility of excessive Acetylcholine I think, however. I want to smoke, believe me, but head just feels far too unsafe and loaded to handle inebriation. EDIT- I have been taking 1500 mg of fish oil daily as well
just take it one step at a time, be patient and all the best... Its us updated...
UPDATE- I went to the doctor today, got a blood test for metals and she said we will go from there and possibly order a hair test or something of the sort. I took half of one pill of focus formula today- which is 1/4th the recommended dose. My head felt normal-ish again(more normal that it has been in months) and I had energy and was pretty happy for about 20 minutes- and then I got REALLY tired again, and still am very tired, with neck stiffness and pretty bad incracranial pressure and brain fog/numbing of cognitive functions. I am going to try just the ALA later on once i buy it to see If I get similar results
Any one know why something in the focus formula, even if it was ALA, would make me feel better for such a brief amount of time, and then really bad?
Did you find out with absolute certainty if you have any amalgam left in your mouth?
How long after you dosed did the side effects occur? I'm just curious what the half-life of R-DHLA might be in you.
Remember(easy right?, don't worry I've been there and your memory will improve if you chelate using a safe protocol) that R-ALA and ALA have different half-lives, so if you decide to test, get the R-ALA form so you can directly compare the effects to the windmill product.
Your doctor has demonstrated a lack of competence in the area of mercury toxicity by ordering a blood test. A hair test, when interpreted by the rules Cutler has devised, can sometimes be informative, sometimes not, but is never definitive. Mercury is seldom high in the hair test of someone who is toxic, rather it deranges mineral transport in the body which will show up as a strange pattern on the hair test. Using statistical math Andy has come up with a way of interpreting this pattern to gauge the likelyhood of toxicity. If in your case exposure ended when your baby teeth fell out and your present issues are due to the mercury they left behind in your brain years ago, then the hair test would be less likely to be informative than if you have current exposure. If this is the case, reaction to a chelator is likely to be the only informative test. It is always the only definitive test. This is because unless one has very substantial recent exposure very little mercury is likely to be in the blood. Mercury doesn't linger in extracellular spaces, blood included. It has a strong affinity for the mitochondria which are inside your cells, in other words it tends to stay inside your tissues and organs rather than float around in the blood.
There is such thing as a chelator challenge test where you would take a substantial dose of ALA along with a substantial dose of DMPS or DMSA and then test for Hg in your urine. Cutler strongly advises against this because the doses of the chelators used would damage you. He knows many who have suffered permanent damage from doing this.
It is enough to know that you are having a reaction to a small amount of an otherwise harmless and beneficial substance that under no earthly circumstances other than Hg or arsenic toxicity could be causing you to feel badly.
renfr had a good idea in his last post which suggested a completely safe way to test for Hg tox by process of elimination.
Since you already know you react to the product you could test yourself with all the other ingredients in the product besides the R-ALA.
Or, if you aren't compulsive enough to need absolute certainty, you could just test any of them you're suspicious of.
edit: on second thought you'd first need to know if any of the other ingredients contain thiols, so maybe this wouldn't be so easy. Spinach extract is already one that does.
renfr had a good idea in his last post which suggested a completely safe way to test for Hg tox by process of elimination.
Since you already know you react to the product you could test yourself with all the other ingredients in the product besides the R-ALA.
Or, if you aren't compulsive enough to need absolute certainty, you could just test any of them you're suspicious of.
edit: on second thought you'd first need to know if any of the other ingredients contain thiols, so maybe this wouldn't be so easy. Spinach extract is already one that does.
Do you think there should be a concern if you're taking NAC and MSM while eating fish (which contains trace amounts of mercury)?
Concern about taking NAC and MSM, no. Concern about eating methylmercury, yes.
I recall the actor Jeremy Piven getting so sick with neurological symptomes from eating sushi he had to stop working for awhile, or some such. He later spoke out about the issue. There are lists online of average Hg content per species.
If you mean do I think that the thiol containing supps would cause you to absorb more of the methylmercury in the fish, then I don't know, Cutler might know or be able to speculate intelligently. My uneducated guess is that it's readily absorbed anyway. I know for certain it crosses the BBB.
I have indeed heard of Piven's case, he was eating two servings of sushis a day for 20 years so it was really an excessive consumption and should be least of concern for anyone who eats fish twice or thrice in a week moreover if it's low in mercury.
However concerning longevity (which is the aim of many of us on this board) it could be a concern knowing that mercury accumulates and doesn't gets out of the brain...
Lipo C seems to have almost totally cure her symptoms in successful ways, so I guess vitamin C should be considered.
I have already taken Lipo C thrice a month and it gives loads of energy.
Not sure what the mechanism is but people report some success.
I didn't know he ate so much, sashimi is one of my favorite foods, it blows that we live in a world where eating it everyday is so unhealthy.
Yeah +++ for sure on Vit C. Cutler recommends 4-8 grams of an ascorbate form in divided doses during chelation. On the low carb and low thiol diet I use during chelation it's easy to minimize potassium unless you eat a lot of avocados so I use the potassium ascorbate and magnesium ascorbate forms together and cap it myself, about 15g/day of the mixed powder in 000 size capsules, one with every ALA dose.
I've been planning to use Lipo C during the redistribution at the end of my next round of chelation. Considering the half-life I guess I'll just make up 15g and sip on it all day while the Hg resettles.
How much Lipo did you take to get the energy effect? all at once?
I read through that thread, the poster Owen R. Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath, is typically well meaning but hapless, he says, "The "allergy" symptoms to alpha lipoic acid indicates the caution by other posters here may have a basis in fact.", it's a shame he has no knowledge of the facts and is unable to help anyone heal.
Sadly, unless the sister referred to in the thread finds out about Cutler's protocol she will never regain her neurological health. The progress she did make was due to the amalgam removal and reduction of the Hg induced oxidative stress by the vitamin C.
I googled the "Cathcarts formula" mentioned in the thread and it's just IV sodium ascorbate. It treats the symptoms and doesn't touch the cause. I know this because years ago I had my dad get me the tubes and needles and order a few cases of sodium ascorbate solution from Mcguff, rather than in plastic like most IV solutions, it came in big round glass bottles like it was straight out of the 50's. I stuck myself at home, it was the first time I'd ever poked a vein and I made a bloody mess of the kitchen floor by missing the vein on the first poke or two. I administered more IV's over the next two weeks and went through a case or two of the sodium ascorbate solution. We'd consulted with Andy before trying this and he was like, "Sure, that should make you feel better", he was right, it didn't cure anything but it felt pleasant enough.
In a thread on the same forum, someone going by VanCanada has got Owen Fonorow's number and provides some apropo Andy quotes in rebuttal: http://www.vitamincf...hp?f=19&t=10634 Owen split this thread off from a larger thread, probably so VanCanada's dissension wouldn't be an eddy of truth in his river of nonsense and pseudoscience. Owen's a great example of how MD's and ND's function as the priests of our profit driven, faith based medical religion, his posting is consistently uninformed and foolish, but he can say whatever he want's and most will believe it because he has the priestly title of ND. Occasionally doctors will pick up and disseminate a helpful meme like vitamin C being good in conditions of high oxidative stress, but the lack of chemistry knowledge makes them just as likely to advise harmful things like attempting to use substances with single thiol groups as chelators, using Vit C as a "chelator" as Dr. Jaffe does, giving huge doses of IV DMPS which can really hurt someone or giving ascorbic acid intravenously as the doctor did to the sister in that thread, damaging her veins. The line from that South Park about Mormonism rings in my ears, "Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb dumb...".
Here's the bio of Owen Fonorow, Orthomolecular Naturopath: http://www.internetw...om/owen/bio.htm, it explains everything, he has a correspondence PhD in "Nutritional Science" from an unnamed institution, probably a diploma mill, and an ND from Costa Rica. It's absoutely imperative FreelyFlourish listen to this guy if he's ever to going get better.
Here Owen "puts his hat in the ring" with nonsense and Cutler explains the irrelevance of glutathione (GSH) as a chelator: http://www.vitamincf...=10668&start=15
Fonorow is correct that OSR is a chelator, but wrong in saying Boyd Haley invented it. OSR was invented to chelate heavy metals from industrial wastewater. Haley tried to market it for human consumption and the FDA shut him down. Here is a post from 2010, when it was still being sold, where Cutler points out the flaws in how Haley was suggesting it be used without the availability of real kinetics information and how it's aromatic ring might cause problems in those who are chemically sensitive: http://health.groups.../message/279813
MD's and ND's will pretend to competence in chemistry. Even doctor's like my father and uncle who both majored in chemistry at a good schools rather than getting liberal arts degrees, as many of their peers did, are almost never competent, an undergraduate chemistry degree just isn't enough to prevent the indoctrination that happens in med school.
I've only gone to the trouble to post in this thread because I know that if Hg is his problem John can recover. I also know that most of the information out there will not lead to recovery, but rather to his getting worse. As Andy says, "Many people are vague and general in their discussions of "mercury," and "detox." Unfortunately the relevant chemistry and physiology are precise and the precision is important."
One last link, a brief interview with Cutler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjmrJdgvtQU
I appreciate the well-thought out and informative response Yogi. Truly- I feel I'm going crazier and crazier every evening. I have an appointment with my dentist to talk about removing my one amalgram and possibly my permanent retainer, depending upon what it's made of. But, my symptoms are so debilitating, I can't even leave the house or enjoy being around anyone- let alone enjoy being by myself, it's hell. What can I do from now until I get the amalgram out if I can't start chelating? I bought the alpha lipoic acid (ALA was in the focus formula, not R-ALA) and have a miligram scale to dose it out properly... I need SOME sort of relief from these symptoms before I check myself into the psych ward or something.
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