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"Complex Dietary Supplement" Bunk


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#31 Michael Price

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 02:24 AM

Timar,
the reason why we share the same dietary deficiencies with mice and whales is because we share the same subcellular metabolisms, in particular, the same dependencies (with some minor differences) on minerals and coenzywms. Evolution always pushes us to burn up these components in the race for genetic survival in ways that conflict with somatic survival. E.g folate deficiencies induce uraecil misincorporation into DNA replication, causing genomic entropy/aging in our soma, whilst protecting our germ line. That's why folate supplemntation is so demonstrably beneficial. This is one cause and effect, but there are untold others. Complexity, you see.

#32 krillin

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 02:28 AM

Timar,
the reason why we share the same dietary deficiencies with mice and whales is because we share the same subcellular metabolisms, in particular, the same dependencies (with some minor differences) on minerals and coenzywms. Evolution always pushes us to burn up these components in the race for genetic survival in ways that conflict with somatic survival. E.g folate deficiencies induce uraecil misincorporation into DNA replication, causing genomic entropy/aging in our soma, whilst protecting our germ line. That's why folate supplemntation is so demonstrably beneficial. This is one cause and effect, but there are untold others. Complexity, you see.

 

Are you still taking something like your 2005 stack?

 

B-vitamins:
Thiamine (B1), 825 mg
Riboflavin (B2), 400 mg
Niacin (B3), 1575 mg
Inositol (B8), 2000 mg
Inositol hexanicotinate, 2480mg niacin (B3), 400mg inositol(B8)
Pantothenate (B5), 7.6 gm
Pyridoxine (B6), 625 mg
Biotin (B7), 4.8 mg
Folate (B9), 8 mg
Cyano-cobalamin (B12), 7 mg
Methyl-cobalamin (B12), 6 mg
Choline (B4), 545 mg
PABA (B10), 900 mg
TMG, 450 mg

Minerals:
Boron, 9 mg
Chromium, 1200ug
Copper, 6 mg
Magnesium, 2000 mg
Manganese, 60 mg
Molybdenum, 750ug
Selenium, 800 ug, in various organic and inorganic forms
Vanadium, 22.5mg
Zinc, 95 mg

Acetyl-L-carnitine, 1000mg
Alpha-lipoic acid, 500mg
RNA, 1000 mg

Aspirin, 150 mg
Beta-carotene, 150,000 IU
Glucosamine, 1000 mg
Lycopene, 40 mg + other carotenoids
Saw palmetto, 1240 mg
Vitamin C, 3 gm
Vitamin D3, 2400 IU
Vitamin E, 600 IU
Vitamin K (18mg K1, 2mg K2)



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#33 Michael Price

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 02:34 AM

Krillin, yes, still taking pretty much what I was taking then. More glucosamine and vitamin D now, and have added lithium and QPP to the mix.

Edited by Michael Price, 03 October 2014 - 02:50 AM.


#34 Dorian Grey

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 04:08 AM

6mg Copper/day?  YIKES!  I thought 2mg/day was the normal daily max.  Hope you don't have copper plumbing adding to your intake!  

 

Copper is one of the accumulated death metals of aging...  Alzheimer's!  http://www.urmc.roch...dex.cfm?id=3916

 

Copper Identified as Culprit in Alzheimer’s Disease

 

"The research team“dosed” normal mice with copper over a three month period. The exposure consisted of trace amounts of the metal in drinking water and was one-tenth of the water quality standards for copper established by the Environmental Protection Agency. 

“These are very low levels of copper, equivalent to what people would consume in a normal diet.” said Deane.

 

The researchers found that the copper made its way into the blood system and accumulated in the vessels that feed blood to the brain, specifically in the cellular “walls” of the capillaries. These cells are a critical part of the brain’s defense system and help regulate the passage of molecules to and from brain tissue.  In this instance, the capillary cells prevent the copper from entering the brain. However, over time the metal can accumulate in these cells with toxic effect. 

 

The researchers observed that the copper disrupted the function of LRP1 through a process called oxidation which, in turn, inhibited the removal of amyloid beta from the brain. They observed this phenomenon in both mouse and human brain cells.

 

The researchers then looked at the impact of copper exposure on mouse models of Alzheimer’s disease. In these mice, the cells that form the blood brain barrier have broken down and become “leaky” – a likely combination of aging and the cumulative effect of toxic assaults – allowing elements such as copper to pass unimpeded into the brain tissue. They observed that the copper stimulated activity in neurons that increased the production of amyloid beta. The copper also interacted with amyloid beta in a manner that caused the proteins to bind together in larger complexes creating logjams of the protein that the brain’s waste disposal system cannot clear. 

 

This one-two punch, inhibiting the clearance and stimulating the production of amyloid beta, provides strong evidence that copper is a key player in Alzheimer’s disease.  In addition, the researchers observed that copper provoked inflammation of brain tissue which may further promote the breakdown of the blood brain barrier and the accumulation of Alzheimer’s-related toxins"


Edited by synesthesia, 03 October 2014 - 04:17 AM.

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#35 Michael Price

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Posted 03 October 2014 - 04:54 AM

Synth,
Copper is a tricky one to judge, with a fine and unclear line between benefit and toxicity. Hopefully the magnesium will chelate the unwanted copper? (Magnesium does combat selenium toxicity.).

#36 niner

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 01:32 AM

perhaps I should say I acknowledge the complexity. Biology is complex, which is why solutions have to be complex. Trying to isolate cause and effect in a reductionist manner is the wrong approach. We need to acknowledge the synergy operating here. This, AFAICS, is reality. The hunt for reductionist explanations and comprehensible mechanisms is a great barrier to progress in anti-aging interventions.

 

This seems like a mystical approach.  It's conceptually very simple to optimize a mixture of supplements for a response such as lifespan.  It will take a lot of mice and time, but we have methods for picking the best N compounds from a larger number of compounds in far less time than the combinatorial complexity of the problem would suggest.  Further, just about everything we understand about molecular biology comes from reductionist explanations.  That's not a barrier to progress in anti-aging, it's the path forward.  If anything (other than lack of funding or deathist knuckleheads) is a barrier, it's mysticism.

 

Copper is a tricky one to judge, with a fine and unclear line between benefit and toxicity. Hopefully the magnesium will chelate the unwanted copper? (Magnesium does combat selenium toxicity.).

 

Magnesium doesn't chelate.  I don't recommend being incautious with transition metals.  They're dangerous as hell.


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#37 Dorian Grey

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 04:59 AM

Synth,
Copper is a tricky one to judge, with a fine and unclear line between benefit and toxicity. Hopefully the magnesium will chelate the unwanted copper? (Magnesium does combat selenium toxicity.).

 

Why hope magnesium (or anything else) might chelate the unwanted copper you're megadosing?  Cut out the offending death mineral and hope you're not still getting way too much unwanted copper from plumbing and other sources.  

 

From what I've read (and sorry I don't have sources for you) magnesium is the most common macro-mineral deficiency and when it comes to trace minerals, deficiencies are rarely a problem, but ratios/balances are...   

 

Acu-Cell has an interesting read on mineral ratios...  Their theory that trace trace mineral deficiencies are less of a problem than an overload of isolated/singular trace mineral causing an imbalance is compelling.  Give it a read here:

 

http://www.acu-cell.com/mr.html

 

I donate blood to dump excess iron (58 year old male) and chelate trace minerals with IP6, supplementing mag and zinc as minerals I never want to get low on.  I'm banking on this eliminating spikes in isolated trace minerals, and a better overall balance long term.  

 

I've seen remarkable improvements in health through bloodletting (iron reduction) and chelation of age related over-mineralization the past few years...  My fountain of youth!  

 

The Acu-Cell site has some unusual (wacky) opinions on some matters, but their theories on trace mineral balancing makes a lot of sense.  Hope you can take some time and give it a read.  I truly believe shotgun supplementation of trace minerals may be counterproductive and over-mineralization of specific minerals (copper, calcium, iron) are the cause of much age related disease and decline in health.  


Edited by synesthesia, 04 October 2014 - 05:30 AM.


#38 Michael Price

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Posted 04 October 2014 - 11:02 PM

Synth',
PMID 1775386 (for Niner as well) found an association between low magnesium intake and selenium toxicity. I agree with the benefits of blood donation to reduce iron load. Thanks for the minerals link - I will study it.

Niner,
synergy is not mysticism. Many compounds have combinatorial effects not evident from their isolated application. Aging, best understood as biological entropy, is intrinsically combinatorial or even chaotic. Inappropriate reductionism is just delusional; that's the reality of the situation.
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#39 niner

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 12:54 AM

PMID 1775386 (for Niner as well) found an association between low magnesium intake and selenium toxicity.

synergy is not mysticism. Many compounds have combinatorial effects not evident from their isolated application. Aging, best understood as biological entropy, is intrinsically combinatorial or even chaotic. Inappropriate reductionism is just delusional; that's the reality of the situation.

 

In that paper, they saw higher selenium toxicity when Mg was deficient, but that doesn't mean that higher Mg will counteract the toxicity of selenium.  And copper is certainly not the same as selenium.

 

Of course synergy is not mysticism.  It becomes mysticism when we think that it's impossible to understand.  Synergy is understandable, and easy to test for.  Inappropriate anything is inappropriate.  I'm not talking about inappropriate reductionism.  You are sounding like you think ALL reductionism is inappropriate, but that is how we have come to understand biology at the level we do today.


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#40 Michael Price

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 06:19 AM

Niner,
Re reductionism vs synergy, you only have to look at the history of failed theories of aging - from monkey glands to antioxidants - to see that aging is not well understood. (Detailed understanding will only come with post singularity AIs, IMO. Call that mysticism if you like.) The only interventions that have worked have been cominatorial dietary supplementation, such as Rollo et al.

#41 blood

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 06:29 AM

6mg Copper/day?  YIKES!  I thought 2mg/day was the normal daily max.  Hope you don't have copper plumbing adding to your intake!

 
Much of the theorising on the copper-Alzheimer's Disease link comes from George J Brewer. He publishes relentlessly on this topic. (Brewer is a prof. at Michigan uni, and one of the world's leading experts on Wilson's Disease - see below**). Brewer's thesis is that copper toxicity is a (or even the) major causative factor in the current epidemic of MCI & Alzheimer's in English speaking countries. He argues that the *form* of copper we consume matters. Unbound copper (e.g., copper that has leached into drinking water from copper pipes, copper contained in dietary supplements) is handled very differently by the body than food-bound copper. Unbound copper is able to bypass or overwhelm the body's regulatory mechanisms which evolved to prevent us from being exposed to too much of this potentially dangerous transition metal. A study done in Canada in 2006 found support for these ideas:
 

Dietary copper and high saturated and trans fat intakes associated with cognitive decline.

Morris MC1, Evans DA, Tangney CC, Bienias JL, Schneider JA, Wilson RS, Scherr PA.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Evidence from prospective epidemiologic studies and animal models suggests that intakes of dietary fats and copper may be associated with neurodegenerative diseases.

OBJECTIVE:
To examine whether high dietary copper intake is associated with increased cognitive decline among persons who also consume a diet high in saturated and trans fats.

DESIGN:
Community-based prospective study.

SETTING:
Chicago, Ill. Patients Chicago residents 65 years and older.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Cognitive function was assessed using 4 cognitive tests administered during in-home interviews at 3-year intervals for 6 years. Dietary assessment was performed with a food frequency questionnaire. Dietary intakes of copper and fats were related to change in global cognitive score (the mean of the 4 tests) among 3718 participants.

RESULTS:
Among persons whose diets were high in saturated and trans fats, higher copper intake was associated with a faster rate of cognitive decline. In multiple-adjusted mixed models, the difference in rates for persons in the highest (median, 2.75 mg/d) vs lowest (median, 0.88 mg/d) quintiles of total copper intake was -6.14 standardized units per year (P<.001) or the equivalent of 19 more years of age. There was also a marginally statistically significant association (P = .07) with the highest quintile of food intake of copper (median, 1.51 mg/d) and a strong dose-response association with higher copper dose in vitamin supplements. Copper intake was not associated with cognitive change among persons whose diets were not high in these fats.

CONCLUSION:
These data suggest that high dietary intake of copper in conjunction with a diet high in saturated and trans fats may be associated with accelerated cognitive decline.

PMID: 16908733 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 
I.e., People consuming more copper, who also consume a diet high in saturated fats, experience faster cognitive decline. We're not talking about "large" amounts of copper here - the median intake in the highest quintile was only 2.75 mg/day of copper! Alarmingly, there was "a strong dose-response relationship with higher copper dose in vitamin supplements"... yikes. Yes, this is 'only' observational research... I don't understand how someone could read this, read Brewer's pieces, and continue to supplement with 6 mg/day of copper. Once you have Alzheimer's, there is nothing you can do, you're screwed. There are no drugs, supplements, herbs, anything that will alter the course of the disease.
 
** Brewer pioneered the treatment of Wilson's Disease (a genetic disease in which copper accumulates in the body) with high-dose zinc supplements. He's a great writer. His articles on the link between unbound copper & Alzheimer's are very readable & compelling (like how I imagine detective fiction would be - I don't read detective fiction! - he weaves together the pieces of evidence in a way that is very entertaining & satisfying to read):
 

J Am Coll Nutr. 2009 Jun;28(3):238-42.

The risks of copper toxicity contributing to cognitive decline in the aging population and to Alzheimer's disease.

Brewer GJ.

Departments of Human Genetics and Internal Medicine, University of Michigan Medical School, 3820 Gensley Road, Ann Arbor, MI 48103, USA. brewergj@umich.edu

Abstract

It is a pleasure and an honor to contribute a paper to a special issue of the Journal of the American College of Nutrition honoring Stanley Wallach and Pearl Small. In this brief review I advance the hypothesis that copper toxicity is the major cause of the epidemic of mild cognitive impairment and Alzheimer's disease engulfing our aging population. This epidemic is recent, exploding in the last 50-60 years. The disease was virtually unknown 100 years ago. And it involves only developed countries that use copper plumbing. Something in our environment associated with development is poisoning the minds of our aged. The epidemic is associated with the use of copper plumbing, and the taking of copper in multi-mineral supplements. Food copper (organic copper) is processed by the liver and is transported and sequestered in a safe manner. Inorganic copper, such as that in drinking water and copper supplements, largely bypasses the liver and enters the free copper pool of the blood directly. This copper is potentially toxic because it may penetrate the blood/brain barrier. I review a web of animal and human data that tightens the noose around the hypothesis that copper toxicity is causing the epidemic of Alzeimer's disease and loss of cognition in our aging population.


Biofactors. 2012 Mar-Apr;38(2):107-13. doi: 10.1002/biof.1005. Epub 2012 Mar 22.

Copper excess, zinc deficiency, and cognition loss in Alzheimer's disease.

Brewer GJ.

Abstract

In this special issue about biofactors causing cognitive impairment, we present evidence for and discuss two such biofactors. One is excess copper, causing neuronal toxicity. The other is zinc deficiency, causing neuronal damage. We present evidence that Alzheimer's disease (AD) has become an epidemic in developed, but not undeveloped, countries and that the epidemic is a new disease phenomenon, beginning in the early 1900s and exploding in the last 50 years. This leads to the conclusion that something in the developed environment is a major risk factor for AD. We hypothesize that the factor is inorganic copper, leached from the copper plumbing, the use of which coincides with the AD epidemic. We present a web of evidence supporting this hypothesis. Regarding zinc, we have shown that patients with AD are zinc deficient when compared with age-matched controls. Zinc has critical functions in the brain, and lack of zinc can cause neuronal death. A nonblinded study about 20 years ago showed considerable improvement in AD with zinc therapy, and a mouse AD model study also showed significant cognitive benefit from zinc supplementation. In a small blinded study we carried out, post hoc analysis revealed that 6 months of zinc therapy resulted in significant benefit relative to placebo controls in two cognitive measuring systems. These two factors may be linked in that zinc therapy significantly reduced free copper levels. Thus, zinc may act by lowering copper toxicity or by direct benefit on neuronal health, or both.

Copyright © 2012 International Union of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Inc.


J Trace Elem Med Biol. 2012 Jun;26(2-3):89-92. doi: 10.1016/j.jtemb.2012.04.019. Epub 2012 Jun 4.

Copper toxicity in Alzheimer's disease: cognitive loss from ingestion of inorganic copper.

Brewer GJ.

Abstract

In this review I present the hypothesis that a toxic substance, inorganic copper, ingested from drinking water and vitamin/mineral supplements containing inorganic copper, is at least partially causal of the epidemic of Alzheimer's disease (AD) we are seeing in developed countries. I set the stage for this hypothesis by pointing out that the epidemic is a new disease phenomenon coinciding temporally with the use of copper plumbing in developed countries. The evidence is good that AD was nonexistent or rare in the 1800 s and early 1900 s, and the arguments that elderly people did not exist in those times, or that AD was simply attributed to senility, are refuted. The web of evidence tying ingestion of inorganic copper as a causal factor in AD is strong, and includes AD animal model data where trace amounts of inorganic copper in the drinking water markedly worsened AD, human studies where ingestion of copper supplements, along with a high fat diet, is associated with a marked loss of cognition, human studies showing a markedly higher mortality in elderly women ingesting copper supplements, as well as other data. It is likely that a high fat diet works in conjunction with ingestion of inorganic copper to increase the risk of AD. It is clear that some factor toxic to the brain is present in the environment in developed countries, but not undeveloped countries, and is a major risk factor for AD. I believe that that toxic factor is ingestion of inorganic copper.

Copyright © 2012 Elsevier GmbH. All rights reserved.


Int J Alzheimers Dis. 2013;2013:586365. doi: 10.1155/2013/586365. Epub 2013 Oct 10.

Zinc deficiency and zinc therapy efficacy with reduction of serum free copper in Alzheimer's disease.

Brewer GJ1, Kaur S.

Abstract

We are in the midst of an epidemic of Alzheimer's disease (AD) in developed countries. We have postulated that ingestion of inorganic copper from drinking water and taking supplement pills and a high fat diet are major causative factors. Ingestion of inorganic copper can directly raise the blood free copper level. Blood free copper has been shown by the Squitti group to be elevated in AD, to correlate with cognition, and to predict cognition loss. Secondly, we have shown that AD patients are zinc deficient compared to age matched controls. Zinc is important in neuronal protection. We carried out a 6-month small double blind trial of a new zinc formulation on AD patients. We found that in patients 70 years and older, zinc therapy protected against cognition decline compared to placebo controls. We also found that zinc therapy significantly lowered blood free copper levels. So zinc efficacy could be due to restoring neuronal zinc levels, to lowering blood free copper levels, or to both.

PMID: 24224111 [PubMed] PMCID: PMC3810325


Front Aging Neurosci. 2014 May 16;6:92. doi: 10.3389/fnagi.2014.00092. eCollection 2014.

Alzheimer's disease causation by copper toxicity and treatment with zinc. [FULL ARTICLE]

Brewer GJ.

Abstract

Evidence will be presented that the Alzheimer's disease (AD) epidemic is new, the disease being very rare in the 1900s. The incidence is increasing rapidly, but only in developed countries. We postulate that the new emerging environmental factor partially causal of the AD epidemic is ingestion of inorganic copper from drinking water and taking supplement pills, along with a high fat diet. Inorganic copper can be partially directly absorbed and elevate the serum free copper pool. The Squitti group has shown that serum free copper is elevated in AD, correlates with cognition, and predicts cognition loss. Thus, our inorganic copper hypothesis fits well with the Squitti group data. We have also shown that AD patients are zinc deficient compared to age-matched controls. Because zinc is a neuronal protective factor, we postulate that zinc deficiency may also be partially causative of AD. We carried out a small 6 month double blind study of a new zinc formulation and found that in patients age 70 and over, it protected against cognition loss. Zinc therapy also significantly reduced serum free copper in AD patients, so efficacy may come from restoring normal zinc levels, or from lowering serum free copper, or from both.

KEYWORDS:
Alzheimer’s disease; cognition; inorganic copper; serum free copper; zinc deficiency


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#42 Michael Price

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 06:55 AM

Thanks Blood,
Inteesting reading there. The problem seems to be with inorganic free copper and is ameliorated with zinc. My copper come as copper bisglycinate chelate and along with 95mg of zinc. Is there a problem there?

#43 blood

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 07:21 AM

Thanks Blood,
Inteesting reading there. The problem seems to be with inorganic free copper and is ameliorated with zinc. My copper come as copper bisglycinate chelate and along with 95mg of zinc. Is there a problem there?

 

Any form of supplemental copper, including amino-acid chelates, would be problematic.

 

You may have inadvertently protected yourself (to some unknown extent) by taking such a high dose of zinc. Zinc antagonizes copper absorption. At around 80 mg/day of zinc, you start to get a depression in serum copper:

 

 

The intervention step required to further lower free copper is to take oral zinc supplements; zinc will lower free copper levels. It does so by strongly limiting copper absorption. “The minimal dose of zinc to do this is about 40 mg twice a day.” “The zinc dose must be separated from food and beverages other than water by at least 1 h before and 2 h after.” The best is zinc acetate and zinc gluconate.

 

(Taken from a presentation given by Brewer I think - see Attached File  Interesting Facts about Copper Toxicity a.pdf   53.85KB   1 downloads)

 

 

I'd also be concerned about this:

 

 


Manganese, 60 mg

 

There is evidence that free, unbound manganese (found in some municipal water supplies, also found in dietary supplements) is handled differently than food-bound manganese. As with unbound copper, unbound manganese appears to bypass/ overwhelm the body's regulatory mechanisms which normally prevent excess absorption of transition metals. Very small amounts of unbound manganese (in drinking water) have been shown to produce nasty cognitive outcomes such as reduced IQ in children. We're talking doses of less than 1 mg/day waterborne manganese. (You're taking 60 mg of manganese/day...) I worry that people are poisoning themselves with multivitamins (most of which contain manganese). No one is researching this, as far as I am aware. Which is a worry. After reading some of the research on water borne manganese and cognitive deficits in kids, I will not take supplemental manganese in any form.


Edited by blood, 05 October 2014 - 07:56 AM.

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#44 Dorian Grey

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 03:19 PM

You're a good egg blood...  Thanks for the hard work you do on this forum.  

 

Primum non/nil nocere (first, do no harm) should be the prime directive of all medicine; both professional and personal.  



#45 krillin

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 06:34 PM

Niner,
Re reductionism vs synergy, you only have to look at the history of failed theories of aging - from monkey glands to antioxidants - to see that aging is not well understood. (Detailed understanding will only come with post singularity AIs, IMO. Call that mysticism if you like.) The only interventions that have worked have been cominatorial dietary supplementation, such as Rollo et al.

Combinations have not worked against aging. Rollo's mice had maximum lifespans of

Unsupplemented C57Bl/6: 950 days
Supplemented C57Bl/6: 975 days
 

Mice living a healthy lifestyle have maximum lifespans of 1200 days and supplement combos, including a replication of Rollo's, didn't even square the curve in this particular example. All you can conclude about Rollo's work is that he abuses his mice in some way and supplements counteract some of the harm, but not enough to match healthy lifestyle. Spindler isn't the only one who can get a good lifespan out of C57Bl/6 mice. 1200 days was reported way back in 1971.


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#46 krillin

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 06:52 PM

Thanks Blood,
Inteesting reading there. The problem seems to be with inorganic free copper and is ameliorated with zinc. My copper come as copper bisglycinate chelate and along with 95mg of zinc. Is there a problem there?

 

25 mg/day zinc is the maximum that I can justify. Most studies only have data for up to that level, but this one on prostate cancer shows how harmful it can be to exceed that level.
 



#47 Hebbeh

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 07:05 PM

Here's an in vivo study on humans where not only did combinations work, but has been the only study to show not only memory loss halted but reversed in alzheimer's patients.  The only treatment to date to demonstrate any kind of success in alzheimer's, to my knowledge.  Groundbreaking IMHO.  I originally posted this in the Brain Health forum here...  http://www.longecity...t-exotic-drugs/  ...but didn't get much positive attention as I thought it should....which was also amazing.  Anyway, a groundbreaking example of what proper combinations are capable of...

 

http://www.scienceda...40930143446.htm

 

full study:  http://www.impactagi...ull/100690.html

 

Memory loss associated with Alzheimer's reversed: Small trial succeeds using systems approach to memory disorders

University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), Health Sciences

 

In the case of Alzheimer's disease, Bredesen notes, there is not one drug that has been developed that stops or even slows the disease's progression, and drugs have only had modest effects on symptoms. "In the past decade alone, hundreds of clinical trials have been conducted for Alzheimer's at an aggregate cost of over a billion dollars, without success," he said.

 

Patient one had two years of progressive memory loss. She was considering quitting her job, which involved analyzing data and writing reports, she got disoriented driving, and mixed up the names of her pets. Patient two kept forgetting once familiar faces at work, forgot his gym locker combination, and had to have his assistants constantly remind him of his work schedule. Patient three's memory was so bad she used an iPad to record everything, then forgot her password. Her children noticed she commonly lost her train of thought in mid-sentence, and often asked them if they had carried out the tasks that she mistakenly thought she had asked them to do.

 

Since its first description over 100 years ago, Alzheimer's disease has been without effective treatment. That may finally be about to change: in the first, small study of a novel, personalized and comprehensive program to reverse memory loss, nine of 10 participants, including the ones above, displayed subjective or objective improvement in their memories beginning within three to six months after the program's start. Of the six patients who had to discontinue working or were struggling with their jobs at the time they joined the study, all were able to return to work or continue working with improved performance. Improvements have been sustained, and as of this writing the longest patient follow-up is two and one-half years from initial treatment. These first ten included patients with memory loss associated with Alzheimer's disease (AD), amnestic mild cognitive impairment (aMCI), or subjective cognitive impairment (SCI; when a patient reports cognitive problems). One patient, diagnosed with late stage Alzheimer's, did not improve.

 

The study, which comes jointly from the UCLA Mary S. Easton Center for Alzheimer's Disease Research and the Buck Institute for Research on Aging, is the first to suggest that memory loss in patients may be reversed, and improvement sustained, using a complex, 36-point therapeutic program that involves comprehensive changes in diet, brain stimulation, exercise, optimization of sleep, specific pharmaceuticals and vitamins, and multiple additional steps that affect brain chemistry.

 

The findings, published in the current online edition of the journal Aging, "are very encouraging. However, at the current time the results are anecdotal, and therefore a more extensive, controlled clinical trial is warranted," said Dale Bredesen, the Augustus Rose Professor of Neurology and Director of the Easton Center at UCLA, a professor at the Buck Institute, and the author of the paper.

 

In the case of Alzheimer's disease, Bredesen notes, there is not one drug that has been developed that stops or even slows the disease's progression, and drugs have only had modest effects on symptoms. "In the past decade alone, hundreds of clinical trials have been conducted for Alzheimer's at an aggregate cost of over a billion dollars, without success," he said.

 

Other chronic illnesses such as cardiovascular disease, cancer, and HIV, have been improved through the use of combination therapies, he noted. Yet in the case of Alzheimer's and other memory disorders, comprehensive combination therapies have not been explored. Yet over the past few decades, genetic and biochemical research has revealed an extensive network of molecular interactions involved in AD pathogenesis. "That suggested that a broader-based therapeutics approach, rather than a single drug that aims at a single target, may be feasible and potentially more effective for the treatment of cognitive decline due to Alzheimer's," said Bredesen.

 

While extensive preclinical studies from numerous laboratories have identified single pathogenetic targets for potential intervention, in human studies, such single target therapeutic approaches have not borne out. But, said Bredesen, it's possible addressing multiple targets within the network underlying AD may be successful even when each target is affected in a relatively modest way. "In other words," he said, "the effects of the various targets may be additive, or even synergistic."

 

The uniform failure of drug trials in Alzheimer's influenced Bredesen's research to get a better understanding of the fundamental nature of the disease. His laboratory has found evidence that Alzheimer's disease stems from an imbalance in nerve cell signaling: in the normal brain, specific signals foster nerve connections and memory making, while balancing signals support memory loss, allowing irrelevant information to be forgotten. But in Alzheimer's disease, the balance of these opposing signals is disturbed, nerve connections are suppressed, and memories are lost.

The model of multiple targets and an imbalance in signaling runs contrary to the popular dogma that Alzheimer's is a disease of toxicity, caused by the accumulation of sticky plaques in the brain. Bredesen believes the amyloid beta peptide, the source of the plaques, has a normal function in the brain -- as part of a larger set of molecules that promotes signals that cause nerve connections to lapse. Thus the increase in the peptide that occurs in Alzheimer's disease shifts the memory-making vs. memory-breaking balance in favor of memory loss.

 

Given all this, Bredesen thought that rather than a single targeted agent, the solution might be a systems type approach, the kind that is in line with the approach taken with other chronic illnesses -- a multiple-component system.

 

"The existing Alzheimer's drugs affect a single target, but Alzheimer's disease is more complex. Imagine having a roof with 36 holes in it, and your drug patched one hole very well -- the drug may have worked, a single "hole" may have been fixed, but you still have 35 other leaks, and so the underlying process may not be affected much."

 

Bredesen's approach is personalized to the patient, based on extensive testing to determine what is affecting the plasticity signaling network of the brain. As one example, in the case of the patient with the demanding job who was forgetting her way home, her therapeutic program consisted of some, but not all of the components involved with Bredesen's therapeutic program, and included:

 

(1) eliminating all simple carbohydrates, leading to a weight loss of 20 pounds;

(2) eliminating gluten and processed food from her diet, with increased vegetables, fruits, and non-farmed fish;

(3) to reduce stress, she began yoga;

(4) as a second measure to reduce the stress of her job, she began to meditate for 20 minutes twice per day;

(5) she took melatonin each night;

(6) she increased her sleep from 4-5 hours per night to 7-8 hours per night;

(7) she took methylcobalamin each day;

(8) she took vitamin D3 each day;

(9) fish oil each day;

(10) CoQ10 each day;

(11) she optimized her oral hygiene using an electric flosser and electric toothbrush;

(12) following discussion with her primary care provider, she reinstated hormone replacement therapy that had been discontinued;

(13) she fasted for a minimum of 12 hours between dinner and breakfast, and for a minimum of three hours between dinner and bedtime;

(14) she exercised for a minimum of 30 minutes, 4-6 days per week.

 

The results for nine of the 10 patients reported in the paper suggest that memory loss may be reversed, and improvement sustained with this therapeutic program, said Bredesen. "This is the first successful demonstration," he noted, but he cautioned that the results are anecdotal, and therefore a more extensive, controlled clinical trial is needed.

 

The downside to this program is its complexity. It is not easy to follow, with the burden falling on the patients and caregivers, and none of the patients were able to stick to the entire protocol. The significant diet and lifestyle changes, and multiple pills required each day, were the two most common complaints. The good news, though, said Bredesen, are the side effects: "It is noteworthy that the major side effect of this therapeutic system is improved health and an optimal body mass index, a stark contrast to the side effects of many drugs."

 

The results for nine of the 10 patients reported in the paper suggest that memory loss may be reversed, and improvement sustained with this therapeutic program, said Bredesen. "This is the first successful demonstration," he noted, but he cautioned that the results need to be replicated. "The current, anecdotal results require a larger trial, not only to confirm or refute the results reported here, but also to address key questions raised, such as the degree of improvement that can be achieved routinely, how late in the course of cognitive decline reversal can be effected, whether such an approach may be effective in patients with familial Alzheimer's disease, and last, how long improvement can be sustained," he said.

 

Cognitive decline is a major concern of the aging population. Already, Alzheimer's disease affects approximately 5.4 million Americans and 30 million people globally. Without effective prevention and treatment, the prospects for the future are bleak. By 2050, it's estimated that 160 million people globally will have the disease, including 13 million Americans, leading to potential bankruptcy of the Medicare system. Unlike several other chronic illnesses, Alzheimer's disease is on the rise--recent estimates suggest that AD has become the third leading cause of death in the United States behind cardiovascular disease and cancer.

 

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA), Health SciencesNote: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:

  1. Dale E. Bredesen. Reversal of cognitive decline: A novel therapeutic programAging, September 2014

 

 



#48 Dorian Grey

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:01 AM

The above mentioned study is dated September 2014...  I'm surprised they didn't incorporate the latest findings on Alzheimer's in their therapy.  

 

Bloodletting: UCLA study suggests iron is at core of Alzheimer's disease

http://newsroom.ucla...hat-iron-247864

 

Vitamin-E: Daily High-Dose Vitamin E Might Delay Alzheimer's

http://www.webmd.com...elay-alzheimers

 

And good old B-Complex: Preventing Alzheimer's disease-related gray matter atrophy by B-vitamin treatment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23690582

 

Avoiding Copper accumulation also essential (as mentioned above)...  Both IP6 and NAC will chelate copper (IP6 chelates iron too).  Word to the wise!  


Edited by synesthesia, 06 October 2014 - 02:05 AM.


#49 Hebbeh

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:27 AM

If you scroll down to Table 1 in the full study, they did prescribe Me-B12, thiamine, pantothenic acid, TMG, P5P, along with mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols.....along with a laundry list of other nutraceuticals including but not limited to D3, K2, ascorbate, resveratrol, curcumin, ALCAR, citicoline, a-lipoic acid, NAC, DHA/EPA, CoQ-10, ashwagandha, bacopa, PQQ, blueberries, selenium, and zinc (while optimizing Zn:fCu ratio = limit free copper) in addition to chelation therapy for heavy metals (which would include iron)....for starters.

 

So if reading the study and protocol....they did cover all the bases you mentioned and a ton more.

 

EDIT: So is the consensus this entails a "complex dietary supplement" or "combination supplement" which is the central point to the only study to date showing not only REVERSAL of memory loss in alzheimer's but allowing a significant percentage of the patients to RETURN to work....amazing IMHO.  And this result will most certainly result in life extension for these individuals.  Am I the only one excited and amazed by this.....and not even a fucked up mouse study.

 

Double Edit: The take home message for me is if every one of us adopted the protocol guidelines early enough, most (if not all) would very likely avoid dementia and live a longer healthier life.  Longer health span AND lifespan for many of us. The proof is in the pudding.....dementia and aging is highly affected by all facets of lifestyle and can be controlled if wanting to make the effort.

 

To further put this in the amazing context that it is....quote:

 

In the case of Alzheimer's disease, Bredesen notes, there is not one drug that has been developed that stops or even slows the disease's progression, and drugs have only had modest effects on symptoms. "In the past decade alone, hundreds of clinical trials have been conducted for Alzheimer's at an aggregate cost of over a billion dollars, without success," he said

 

 


Edited by Hebbeh, 06 October 2014 - 03:03 AM.

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#50 trance

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 05:27 AM

The same author in an earlier paper:

 

Rather than focusing on monotherapeutics, the optimal approaches may involve systems of therapeutics, which include both pharmacological and non-pharmacological components. For example, if synaptic reconstruction and maintenance form parts of the optimal treatment for AD, and inflammation is to be minimized, autophagy activated (periodically, perhaps), neurotrophic factors normalized, stress minimized, Aβ oligomerization inhibited, Aβ clearance increased, ApoE4-mediated signals reduced, tau phosphorylation reduced, prionic tau amplification blocked, memory loss reversed, cholinergic neurotransmission restored and overall network balance restored; then multiple factors may require normalization, enhancement, or administration, such as hormonal balance, vitamin D3, C-reactive protein (and other inflammation-related markers), homocysteine, sleep and melatonin, citicoline (citidine-5-diphosphocholine), specific antioxidants, diet (including specific periods of fasting, avoidance of high glycemic index foods and saturated fats, etc.), exercise, stress, omega-3 fatty acids and resolvins (Mizwicki et al, 2013) and other network components.

 

Most of the factors of which such a system is comprised have already been shown to exert modest effects (trends that often have not reached statistical significance) on AD or animal models of AD, but there has been little evaluation of such a complete system. However, one of the interesting potential outcomes of including such a therapeutic system approach is that it may allow drug candidates that failed in monotherapeutic clinical trials to demonstrate beneficial effects when used as part of the system.

 

Full text:  Next generation therapeutics for Alzheimer's disease

 

.



#51 Michael Price

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 05:30 AM

Krillin, the study you cite does not show any prostate problem with exceeding 25mg/day of zinc, despite your claim otherwise. There is a general pattern here of problems only with unbound minerals. My supplemental minerals are organically bound. Your claim that the mice did not have their lifespan extended repeats Michael Rae's thread opening claim and has already been rebutted.

Edited by Michael Price, 06 October 2014 - 05:44 AM.

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#52 Michael Price

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 06:01 AM

Hebbeh,
I concur with your sentiments; AD is one of the most tragic but easily preventable conditions there is. That people en mass haven't done, and don't do, anything about it with combo supplements is puzzling. I remember reading about a suggestive link between low folate and AD 15 years ago - my immediate reaction was to check that my B-vit complex included folate (it did, to my great relief). But people have a very weird and fatalistic attitude about preventive health. I once advised a diabetic to consider talking some basic supplements such as B6, biotin, magnesium and zinc. He ignored this advice with the observation that diabetes was a "condition" and therefore untreatable. AD is viewed in the same way.
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#53 blood

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 08:52 AM

My supplemental minerals are organically bound...

 

What does that mean though - "organically bound"? Bound to an amino acid ("chelated")? Chelation supposedly *increases* absorption of trace minerals... but increased absorption is NOT what you want given that you are taking 6 mg/day of copper and 60 mg/day manganese each day.



#54 Michael Price

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 08:57 AM


My supplemental minerals are organically bound...

What does that mean though - "organically bound"? Bound to an amino acid ("chelated")? Chelation supposedly *increases* absorption of trace minerals... but increased absorption is NOT what you want given that you are taking 6 mg/day of copper and 60 mg/day manganese each day.
It means that the unbound fors are not present. Looking at the studies posted, the unbound forms seem to be the problem.

Edited by Michael Price, 06 October 2014 - 08:58 AM.


#55 blood

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 09:37 AM

 

 

My supplemental minerals are organically bound...

What does that mean though - "organically bound"? Bound to an amino acid ("chelated")? Chelation supposedly *increases* absorption of trace minerals... but increased absorption is NOT what you want given that you are taking 6 mg/day of copper and 60 mg/day manganese each day.
It means that the unbound fors are not present. Looking at the studies posted, the unbound forms seem to be the problem.

 

 

 

Can you say - precisely - what you mean by unbound form?

 

If your copper & manganese supplements contain a trace metal bound with an amino acid (e.g., copper bisglycinate) then you have a highly - arguably dangerously - bioavailable supplement. (The minerals in such supplements are more bioavailable than those in food for example.)

 

What is the product? Who is the manufacturer?



#56 Michael Price

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 09:56 AM


My supplemental minerals are organically bound...

What does that mean though - "organically bound"? Bound to an amino acid ("chelated")? Chelation supposedly *increases* absorption of trace minerals... but increased absorption is NOT what you want given that you are taking 6 mg/day of copper and 60 mg/day manganese each day.
It means that the unbound fors are not present. Looking at the studies posted, the unbound forms seem to be the problem.


Can you say - precisely - what you mean by unbound form?

If your copper & manganese supplements contain a trace metal bound with an amino acid (e.g., copper bisglycinate) then you have a highly - arguably dangerously - bioavailable supplement. (The minerals in such supplements are more bioavailable than those in food for example.)

What is the product? Who is the manufacturer?

Unbound or free means the atom is ionised in solution and carries a charge or valency. As such they behave completely differently to the same atom bound into a molecular comp!ex. Most of my minerals come from the LEF (Florida, USA) Trace Minerals product, topped up with extra selenium, strontium and magnesium.

#57 pamojja

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 10:41 AM

Most of my minerals come from the LEF (Florida, USA) Trace Minerals product, topped up with extra selenium, strontium and magnesium.

 

Some time ago they downgrated their Trace Minerals product to 2 mg of Manganese per pill only.
 



#58 Michael Price

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 10:57 AM


Most of my minerals come from the LEF (Florida, USA) Trace Minerals product, topped up with extra selenium, strontium and magnesium.


Some time ago they downgrated their Trace Minerals product to 2 mg of Manganese per pill only.
My Trace Minerals stock is a few years old (a bulk purchase when it looked like export/import restrictions might kick in). Perhaps I'll restock.

#59 krillin

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 05:59 AM

Krillin, the study you cite does not show any prostate problem with exceeding 25mg/day of zinc, despite your claim otherwise. There is a general pattern here of problems only with unbound minerals. My supplemental minerals are organically bound. Your claim that the mice did not have their lifespan extended repeats Michael Rae's thread opening claim and has already been rebutted.

 

This post has nothing correct in it. Table 2: 1-24 mg/day supplement use had the lowest risk of advanced prostate cancer. The paper didn't say anything about the zinc being bound or unbound.



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#60 krillin

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 06:29 AM

 

Here's an in vivo study on humans where not only did combinations work, but has been the only study to show not only memory loss halted but reversed in alzheimer's patients.  The only treatment to date to demonstrate any kind of success in alzheimer's, to my knowledge.

 

Enbrel works too. This paper's stack could use a lot of work. It recommends achieving a jaw-dropping 50-100 ng/ml vitamin D but only cites a paper that says "Our results clarify that the threshold above which older adults are unlikely to benefit from supplementation with regard to dementia risk is likely to lie in the region of 50 nmol/L" i.e. no further risk reduction above 20 ng/ml. 400 mg turmeric and 100 mg lipoic acid? Has he done any dose research outside of supplement catalogs? Grape seed monomers should be added to the stack.
 


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