26 replies to this topic

[BDon]

I'm looking to try out some herbs/supplements for test-boosting to aid weight-lifting, some growth/mass and libido of course. I know Testosterone injections are far more expensive. I am going for a 3 month trip and i can't bring those things with me. I am looking a long the lines of these supplements although some are unworthy but maybe someone here can help me out

~ D-Aspartic Acid 3 grams daily
~ Tribulus (I know not effective but I hear it's very relative to the independent user)
~ Ecdysterone
~ Tong-Kat Ali

Also ashwagandha but too expensive to run at the desired dose (5g daily)

Thank you al!

[Strelok]

I just starting taking Tongkat Ali several days ago, so it's too early to tell. I'll keep track of any appreciable effects it has on me over the next several months. Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to have a hormone assay pre and post Tongkat.

[BDon]

May I kindly ask what dosage? Also supplier.

Good luck what else are you taking with it. Guessing you are wanting to boost testosterone.

Ecdysterone + D-Aspartic Acid + TongKat Ali

Should do well as those 3. But however Ecdysterone needs to be a purified source.

Edited by BDon, 19 March 2013 - 10:43 PM.

[leftside]

May I kindly ask what dosage? Also supplier.

Good luck what else are you taking with it. Guessing you are wanting to boost testosterone.

Ecdysterone + D-Aspartic Acid + TongKat Ali

Should do well as those 3. But however Ecdysterone needs to be a purified source.

Tongkat Ali is great - but certainly not cheap, and it can be difficult to find the good stuff.

Do you have any recommended sources for ecdy? I'd quite like to try it.

[Strelok]

May I kindly ask what dosage? Also supplier.

Good luck what else are you taking with it. Guessing you are wanting to boost testosterone.

Ecdysterone + D-Aspartic Acid + TongKat Ali

I ordered some 200:1 extract powder from Health Supplement Wholesalers, and have capsuled it up in '00' capsules. Each capsule contains roughly 640mg of Tongkat powder. I have only been taking one per day first thing in the morning. Once my body gets used to that over the next week or so, I think I'll increase it to one capsule twice daily.

I'm not taking anything else specifically for testosterone with it, which is indeed why I'm taking Tongkat. I do however take zinc, magnesium, and boron, all of which may have a slightly beneficial impact on testosterone levels if you're deficient in any of them. Same goes for omega-3s, healthy saturated fats and other healthy fats, and cholesterol. Plenty of sleep, consistently is important, as is heavy resistance exercise (most important), especially for the legs (I do deadlifts). If tongkat doesn't work for me, then I'll consider testing some of the other ones you've mentioned.

[leftside]

I take between 1200mg - 1800mg for general well being. 2 weeks on. 1 week off.

[Strelok]

Tongkat Ali is great - but certainly not cheap, and it can be difficult to find the good stuff.

How long did it take you to start noticing the effects of Tongkat, and what were the effects? At what dosage? How do you tell if you got "good stuff" or not?

[BDon]

Strelok look into D-Aspartic Acid add it with it. Good studies on D-AA my friend. I would assume

~ Ecdy/Turksterone + D-AA + TongKat ~ would work great.

Tribulus has shown to be bunk for test-boosting effects but rather libido acceptable. It's a hit and and miss need to take the initiative on your own to see if it works on your body.

I would think DHEA is good to add but apparently got to be 35 years minimum for that.

[nowayout]

DAA has not been proved safe for longer use(the study everyone mentions was only 2weeks and small).

It is an exitotoxin. Some people complain about destryed libidobafter using it for longer periods.

In any case, the size of supposed increase in T from DAA is unlikely to make much difference to muscle building.

[leftside]

Tongkat Ali is great - but certainly not cheap, and it can be difficult to find the good stuff.

How long did it take you to start noticing the effects of Tongkat, and what were the effects? At what dosage? How do you tell if you got "good stuff" or not?

I normally notice it within 4-5 days. Peaks around 9 days. After 14 days I stop taking it. Week off. Definitely more sexual desire which I equate with a rise in testosterone.

[Luminosity]

I took Ecdysterone. For some reason, I think I took two pills a day when they said to take one. It made me somewhat more able to exercise, which had been a problem due to some physical concerns. I started to exercise. I'm female. I developed a female problem that I have never had before, that alarmed me. I went off of it and the problem went away and never recurred. I wouldn't take this again. The positive effects weren't dramatic for me.

Personally I would not take artificial hormones or steriods. This is as close as I came and it wasn't a great idea. Even trying to amp up your hormones with herbs by yourself I would be cautious of. If you are healthy and keep fit, that should all be good enough. If you really want an herbal tonic to drive up your libido and strength, you could look for a very good acupuncturist/Chinese herbalist to prescribe tonics specifically for you, if there is really a need. I wrote a thread about how to find a good acupuncturist here:

http://www.longecity...hinese-medicine

In Chinese medicine, using herbs on your own that move energy from certain parts of your body to other parts can cause problems in the long term if you didn't have enough energy to begin with.

Edited by Luminosity, 20 March 2013 - 04:28 AM.

[BDon]

I would also add Zn, Mag. however those are not going to do much things.

Cooking with garlic/ginger/onions too should be more powerful than Zinc and Magnesium + Copper

Calcium has some test-boosting abilities but minimal I would assume.

I believe MK7 would be best to add.

[nowayout]

The only thing over the counter that is going to make any difference to weight-lifting and muscle mass is diet, and possibly creatine for some people. All the rest are just expensive placebos.

Edited by viveutvivas, 20 March 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[nowayout]

If you really want an herbal tonic to drive up your libido and strength, you could look for a very good acupuncturist/Chinese herbalist to prescribe tonics specifically for you, if there is really a need. I wrote a thread about how to find a good acupuncturist here:

http://www.longecity...hinese-medicine

In Chinese medicine, using herbs on your own that move energy from certain parts of your body to other parts can cause problems in the long term if you didn't have enough energy to begin with.

Stay away from Chinese traditional medicine for several reasons, including the following:

http://healthland.ti...llions-in-asia/

Herbal Medicines Pose Health Risk to Millions in Asia

A commonly used herbal remedy that is banned in the U.S. and many European countries may still be harming users in Asia.
Since researchers connected an epidemic of kidney disease among Belgium women in the early 1990s to herbal medicines from a weight loss clinic, scientists have monitored the remedy for other potential health risks.
During the initial outbreak, scientists traced the kidney problems to aristolochic acid (AA), which belongs to a group of plants known as birthwort or Dutchman’s pipe. The agent is used for weight loss and to treat asthma and arthritis. But since the epidemic, herbs with aristolochic acid have been banned for medicinal uses in many countries, including the U.S. Researchers at King’s College London, however, now report in the Annals of Internal Medicine that millions of people are still being exposed, especially in Asia.


The scientists, led by Graham Lord, the director of the National Institute for Health Research Biomedical Research Centre at Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS Foundation Trust and King’s College London, found that herbal medicines containing the acid are still found in China and other Asian countries and can be purchased online. “The reason we wrote this paper is to provide a diagnostic classification for aristolochic acid nephropathy (AAN) [the type of kidney failure associated with the agent]. For countries that haven’t asked the question of whether this is present, here is diagnostic criteria. We just don’t know what the levels of exposure are throughout the world,” he says.

Edited by viveutvivas, 20 March 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[hamishm00]

There were some interesting results with high dose chrysin in rats. :

http://www.ergo-log....-synthesis.html

[DorianGrey]

http://www.foxnews.c...for-andropause/
I am trying to track down the original study.
Tongkat ali improves testosterone (not clear how much), well being compared to placebo and what caught my attention, 47% increase in DHEA, that's significant. Overdosing may by counterproductive. The stated 100mg is a cheap and reasonable dose, considering Tongkat ali may contain low levels of (mutagenic) cytotoxin. 100mg doesn't make sense if someone wants to turn in a profit, an ounce goes for 10$ on eBay.
Here's the key sentence:
"If you are going to use Tongkat Ali, look for supplements that contain an extract standardized to 22 percent eurypeptides. The dose used in the human studies is 100 milligrams daily."

Edited by DorianGrey, 12 October 2013 - 12:01 AM.

[JohnnyP]

For weight lifting purposes my personal favorite has been a 12 week cycle of DAA (8 weeks) and Biotivia Bioforge (all 12 weeks).

[alan.r]

When I was involved in weight lifting years ago, I took DHEA, Arginine and Ornithine, and plenty of whey protein supplements. I was about 22 then, and I can say that they did what they were intended to do - I was able to lift 6 days a week, splitting into pretty complex twice-a-day sessions, rotating all the different muscle groups in different on-off cycles. I can't even imagine doing that now, but it did work and I put on 20 pounds of bulk over 6 months. I've been 175 lbs since I was 18 (48 now), but I peaked then at 195, and was pretty ripped.

The shortened recovery times were the main benefit, as far as I can see, and libido was normal for that age (which is to say - over-active).

My sport generally has been cycling, and its more desirable to weigh less, so it all dropped off fairly rapidly in one tough summer. DHEA is banned by the UCI, so I stopped that when I found out and noted no particular difference. Recovery times at my age now are pretty long, but that's just one of those things you accept and live with. As far as other things - I tried Tribulus for a time, but the difference (if there was any) faded to nothing within a week. I think it is one of those things that the body adapts to, and the benefits disappear with regular use. Same goes for Ashvaghanda; a week in, and the effects disappear.

I've also tried NOX supplements - the "blast your workout" thing, and they do seem to help by raising oxygen levels in the blood and allowing harder workouts. Beta alanine also aids bloodflow and allows more intense workouts, but then in both cases recovery just takes longer anyway. "Stacking" workouts is more the way to develop bulk and serious endurance for sports, but all that depends on quick recovery. The lack of legal short-cuts to that is one of the reasons older athletes don't get far, and why amazing stories, like Lance's big come-back, often end badly.

Edited by alan.r, 13 October 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[DorianGrey]

This extract http://ca.iherb.com/...ment-10-g/45332 seems to be the gold standard, LJ100. I read doses start at 25mg and people may use other cycles like 2 days on, 2 days off. The company recommends 100mg before rigorous physical activity, "for maximum benefits, take LJ 100 on a 5 days on, 2 days off cycle".
Here's a good summary, although regarding Testosterone or DHEA there's not so much evidence. The only study really supporting the claim is Dr. M.I.Tambi in http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/21671978#.

Edited by DorianGrey, 15 October 2013 - 05:33 PM.

[Wu Hang]

I took Ecdysterone. For some reason, I think I took two pills a day when they said to take one. It made me somewhat more able to exercise, which had been a problem due to some physical concerns. I started to exercise. I'm female. I developed a female problem that I have never had before, that alarmed me. I went off of it and the problem went away and never recurred. I wouldn't take this again. The positive effects weren't dramatic for me.

Personally I would not take artificial hormones or steriods. This is as close as I came and it wasn't a great idea. Even trying to amp up your hormones with herbs by yourself I would be cautious of. If you are healthy and keep fit, that should all be good enough. If you really want an herbal tonic to drive up your libido and strength, you could look for a very good acupuncturist/Chinese herbalist to prescribe tonics specifically for you, if there is really a need. I wrote a thread about how to find a good acupuncturist here:

http://www.longecity...hinese-medicine

In Chinese medicine, using herbs on your own that move energy from certain parts of your body to other parts can cause problems in the long term if you didn't have enough energy to begin with.

There are many problems with Chinese medicine mainly because most Chinese medicine theories developed in the past were gone due to various reasons. The remaining theory, in comparison, lacks many details on the mechanism of body cycle, therefore it only works for certain people under certain conditions.

In theory, nobody should use the same chemical/herb at the same amount continuously over time. Everybody should adjust their usage of medicine accordingly over time and changing them to achieve the optimal state. So it's bazaar to hear that somebody experience the same effect from the same dosage of chemicals continuously over several years.

[DukeNukem]

Korean blackberry extract:

Rubus coreanus raises T-level by factor 7: animal study
http://www.ergo-log....uscoreanus.html

[Guardian4981]

Thats an interesting study, but where can you buy it from? Im checking all my supplement sites and can't find it.

[DorianGrey]

"A rat study has noted abnormally high increases in testosterone (700%) but such an increase has failed in the pilot study on healthy men. We cannot fully conclude that a testosterone boost cannot occur in men (since there were difference in the sources of the berry, stage of ripening, and dosage) but at this moment it does not look too promising."
http://examine.com/s...Rubus coreanus/

Because the results with other dosages and unripened fruit were also high in the mouse study, I think this is a dead end. Maybe the mice were just missing something in their diet that was complemented by the fruit and humans are not missing those nutrients in theirs (think Zinc or some simple trace mineral).

Edited by DorianGrey, 16 October 2013 - 07:29 PM.

[Mind]

Some updated research confirming the muscle-building properties of ecdysterone: https://www.fu-berli...tanz/index.html

[micro2000]

Ecdysterone works through the estrogen beta receptor.

[Believer]

Testosterone is in fact far more cheaper than those supplements. T enanthate 250mg1ml or 300mg/1ml you can get a months supply of for around 20-30 US dollars if you go for cheap brands. If you dose them twice a week, so 500mg/w or 600mg/w, you will have far, far higher T than you will ever achieve with legal sups. And it's cheaper than those sups, too.

Too bad testosterone is so weak.

 

I'm not advocating breaking laws or putting health at risk.

[Rocket]

Testosterone is in fact far more cheaper than those supplements. T enanthate 250mg1ml or 300mg/1ml you can get a months supply of for around 20-30 US dollars if you go for cheap brands. If you dose them twice a week, so 500mg/w or 600mg/w, you will have far, far higher T than you will ever achieve with legal sups. And it's cheaper than those sups, too.

Too bad testosterone is so weak.

 

I'm not advocating breaking laws or putting health at risk.

 

You will shut down your testicles by using exogenous testosterone. Not good at all for someone who has healthy T levels. You run the risk of infertility as well as increasing your RBC count and negatively affecting lipid values. 

 

Should only be used to bodybuilders who who know what they are doing to their body and take appropriate pecautions.

 

You are right about one thing, and that is testosterone is very weak. T boosters are a waste of time and money. Complete and total waste of time and money. I hate those stupid commercials showing middle aged guys climbing mountains and pumping iron in the gym because they boosted their T by 10%, Such BS. My lab rat has significant experience with anabolics and knows what he speaks. T boosters and that stupid Serovital really tick me off with those fake misleading commercials.

 

To boosters for "weight lifting" is a waste of money. You can shoot 250mg of T into your body, have levels that are off the charts, and still you won't hardly notice a thing in the weight room. So adding 5-10% more T into your body is useless. The OP is better off getting onto a program of weight training and eating.... most people just go and do a fews sets of 10 reps of this and that, make beginner gains and then everything stops. You can get bigger with right training and dieting. You will not get bigger from T boosters.

 

I just hit 320 on the bench unaided if you know what I mean. A year ago my max was around 265. Eat right, Train right.

Edited by Rocket, 31 July 2019 - 02:36 PM.