17 replies to this topic

[pseudonamed]

Anybody in the UK using Wellbutrin for reasons other than smoking?

I have ADHD-pi (diagnosed years ago in another country so not recognised here) and depression. Doctors want to give me SSRIs, if anything at all. I have used these in the past and they did not help me. I have a good friend who also has ADHD-pi and depression, and she's taking Wellbutrin and has transformed. She's happy and productive in university. However, she is living in Canada where it's much easier to get medications. I am in the UK and possibly going to fail because I can't cope.

I really want to try Wellbutrin to see if it could work for me, as it's effects seem like they might work better for someone like me than SSRIs did. They won't prescribe it here for anything other than smoking cessation, so I am wondering how hard it is to get it here without a prescription?

Is anyone here doing that in the UK? I'm wary of getting in trouble importing it, as I'm in the process of securing a longer term visa to the UK. Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but I don't want to screw that up by getting caught importing prescriptions without a prescription. What are the chances of getting in trouble? Is it possible to find it within the UK?

Is there any chance of getting a psychiatrist to prescribe off label, or is that even done in the UK?

[Tom_]

I live in the UK.

They do prescribe wellbutrin here for depression and off license for AHDH, a stimulant is a much better idea.

What I will say is its not well evidenced for ADHD and tends to work better for depression with an SSRI/SNRI.

There should be no problem importing it. medcab uk is a reliable way to get hold of it. I've ordered modafinil and pregabalin off there.

[pseudonamed]

I know stimulants are better for ADD however they're more controlled and harder to find. I won't be able to get them by prescription without getting retested for ADD again (could take a year to get that). Unless I pay a lot for a private psychiatrist, but even then I am not guaranteed anything.

[Tom_]

Then buy modafinil, try DLPA, L tryosine etc..there are plenty of effective supplements for ADHD that are as or nearly as effective as stimulants...and modafinil is a stimulant.

I'm more than happy to advise on a stack to treat ADHD and depression.

Edited by Tom_, 29 March 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[pseudonamed]

Well thank you for the offer.

I have been looking at more natural options but perhaps they will only work after a long time and I'm getting too impatient?

I have been taking l tyro in the mornings and l tryptophan at night. Been taking fish oils, multivitamin, B Vits, choline, inositol, DMAE. I've tried sulbutiamine but don't notice anything from that. I've been taking piracetam for about a month and not sure if I notice anything? I am not taking huge doses of it though (less than 2g). Also added pramiracetam recently but again not really noticing anything from it.

Edited by pseudonamed, 29 March 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[Tom_]

There is a reason they use SSRI's - they are effective in depression, it may be worth giving one a go especially in combo with 50mg of 5HTP

Wellbutrin works no quicker - sorry to break it to you. Its also unlikely to work any better.

Scrap the inositol, DHEA, choline

DLPA + sulbutramine + modafinil + L theanine +

low dose melatonin 0.3-3mg (I am struggling to find anything lower than 1mg) at night and switch to 5HTP instead of tryptophan.

Multi vit, b vit, omega 3

[nowayout]

There is a reason they use SSRI's - they are effective in depression, it may be worth giving one a go especially in combo with 50mg of 5HTP

He said he tried SSRIs and they failed.

[Tom_]

Hence I suggest augmentation.

[Thorsten3]

Why add 5htp to an SSRI?

More serotoin = more efficacy = no sense, to me.

[pseudonamed]

It is considered risky to add 5htp or tryptophan to an SSRI because of the risk of serotonin syndrome.

[Tom_]

It is not risky. Its risky to use a combo like MAOI + TCA + Li+. An SSRI + tryptophan/5HTP are in the vast majority of people not going to causer hyperserotonemia.

[Thorsten3]

SSRIs are defintely powerful enough to exert an antidepressant response on their own, without the help of 5HTP. I think you'd just be making yourself feel worse, and increasing unnecessary side effects.

5HTP by itself lowers my libido, alters my perception of time, makes me very fatigued and a has a few other negatives too. I did notice positives; don't get me wrong. It's a decent little supplement for those that don't want to explore the drug route. Added to an SSRI just sounds kind of wrong to me. Unless you've stumbled across some sort of wonderful idea that other people need to explore.

On the other hand, I have come across people who have had success combining 5HTP with tianeptine. Whereby, it can reduce the side effects of the tianeptine and make it a smoother ride. I would have tried the combination mysefl if it wasn't such a bitch getting hold of affordable servier grade tianeptine now.

Edited by Thorsten2, 21 April 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[nupi]

It may not be risky on the scale of stacking SSRI and MAOI, but it sure remains a dumb idea. It's not like you don't get Tryptophan from food, too.

[Tom_]

The rate of clincial hyperserotonemia with a TCA + MAOI is less than 1%. otherwise clinical guidlines would prohibit it from being prescribed in anythin g less than acceptional certamstanes. Not to mention the most resent research shows that in itself is a perfectly valid and when carefully observed by an expiranced clinical -safe treatment option.

Getting wound up by an SSRI + 5HTp/trypophan seems rather...cautious. Its an evidence based treatment and I have never read a single study where more than 1 patient experienced hyperserotonemia.

[nupi]

But why risk it? I doubt it will do much positive, in any case

[Tom_]

Because its, as previously mentioned an evidence based treatment for stage 1-3 TRD.

Not to mention most SSRIs if not all of them (not intimately familiar with the research) have been shown to reduce concentrations of tryptophan, primarily in rats and also more resently in humans. As I'm sure you know tryptophan is vital and a decrease has potentially toxic effects, including neurotoxicity - if nothing else thats a good reason to supplement SSRI's with it.

[Thorsten3]

SSRIs are definitely not neurotoxic. I'm afraid they have been found to be somewhat the opposite to what you are claiming.

The main issues with SSRIs, and the reason people hate taking them, is because of their side effects. Adding 5HTP will push synaptic serotonin levels through the roof. This will add to side effects, and will most likely induce horrendous apathy on the individual. Lexapro + 5HTP sounds like a situation where I'd just want to end things. SSRIs produce a state where dopamine is antagonized enough. I don't think adding 5HTP will help that situation in any way.


When taking these drugs, I say, let these drugs work on their own and then see what improvements have been made and what might need improving.

In my experience, better things to mix with an SSRI are:

a) fish oil (potentiates the effects undoubtably)
b) L Methyl Folate (great stuff - known as 'Deplin', and has a lot of positive accounts all over the internet where this supplement has basically saved the lame, flagging antidepressant that has stopped working for people)
c) Something dopaminergic (methylphenidate, low dose amphetamine, trivastal, DA agonists - if tolerated, catuaba, mucuna, modafinil ... lots of options really). Only add this to apathetic SSRIs such as lexapro, zoloft and luvox (if that even is an SSRI - more of a sigma agonist).
d) Buspirone (reactivates the 5HT1A receptor once it's been desensitized by SSRI treatment)
e) Bupripion (works very well for some in combination with an SSRI).
f) Reboxetine
g) Pindolol (5HT1A antagonist - has been shown to hastily speed up antidepressant response when starting SSRI treatment).

Edited by Thorsten2, 21 April 2013 - 05:33 PM.

[medievil]

I second pindolol.