I'm curious, for those of you who have smoked DMT, what has it confirmed or disproven for you about religion.
It can be anything from any religion.
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8 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 10 July 2013 - 10:29 PM
For what it's worth, the experience took me a place that was both extraordinary and instantly familiar, with the thought crystallising, 'Oh, this, if they'd told me it was this I wouldn't have been worried!' A dimension that I intuitively described to myself at the time as the infinite pleasure palace of the mind, a little poetically. In retrospect, it seemed to be a be a very direct, vivid and colourful experience of the three bodies as described by Vajrayana Buddhism, if I had to reach for a language to capture it. Perhaps this is my own projection on the experience, but I think it's fair to say that the language of Tibetan Buddhism is one of the few that fits with such an experience and can describe any aspect of it from a standpoint of familiarity. if that answers your question... Various energy channels as described in the eastern religions were also all very much present and correct. This confirms for me that these systems are derived from direct experience, if that wasn't already clear.
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Posted 01 August 2013 - 10:02 PM
It does nothing but confirm to me how easy it is to manipulate the brain into having "religious experiences." I can understand why people in the past thought they were having spiritual experiences, but I can't understand how anyone today could think they're having a supernatural experience from any hallucinogen, whether it's LSD, salvia, DMT, peyote, etc.
#8
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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:36 AM
"tribesman take DMT and their reality revolves around the unreal magic behind it and they still all kill each other just like all the other wild apelike creatures.........."
Sure, but DMT gives you a brief mystical experience, it does not instantly and permanently turn you into a fully realised being with boundless compassion. Having a day trip to France does not make you French, or even mean you can speak the language. This does not change the fact that the experience may be meaningful on some level, in terms of showing how the mind is able to experience itself under different circumstances. To what degree it is 'real' is a matter of opinion. You could argue that on DMT you experiece a different hallucination to the one you normally experience, along with many other points of view. 'Real' and 'unreal' are not as straightforward as you imply. Even in science, 'real' is a lazy term for a hypothesis that functions. 'Magic' is sometimes a metaphor that functions, based on as yet unknown science.
We should remember that science has really got nowhere with understanding consciousness and the part it plays in the the makeup of reality. It seems to be as much a fact of life as gravity or matter, and yet we play at 'theories of everything' that do not include it. For me that suggests that we are living in the Middle Ages. We think that we are at the end of history, highly advanced, and nearly understand everything. And yet we obviously barely understand anything. In the west, we currently have a bad habit of discounting anything that conflicts with the idea that our own consciousness is utterly irrelevant to the functioning of reality. We say that any other point of view is primitive magic or religion. Experiences like DMT tend to remind us not to be so naive, by challenging the subject and object duality that is the basis of this mistake.
It's probably good that as a culture we are growing beyond the truly childish religions that imagine gods as if they are powerful external beings, who are fond of arbitrary rules. I wish we could do it a bit quicker in fact, as the current Christians / Muslims vs atheists debate is childish in the extreme. But Eastern 'religions' are very different and the best ones are a great deal more interesting.
Sure, but DMT gives you a brief mystical experience, it does not instantly and permanently turn you into a fully realised being with boundless compassion. Having a day trip to France does not make you French, or even mean you can speak the language. This does not change the fact that the experience may be meaningful on some level, in terms of showing how the mind is able to experience itself under different circumstances. To what degree it is 'real' is a matter of opinion. You could argue that on DMT you experiece a different hallucination to the one you normally experience, along with many other points of view. 'Real' and 'unreal' are not as straightforward as you imply. Even in science, 'real' is a lazy term for a hypothesis that functions. 'Magic' is sometimes a metaphor that functions, based on as yet unknown science.
We should remember that science has really got nowhere with understanding consciousness and the part it plays in the the makeup of reality. It seems to be as much a fact of life as gravity or matter, and yet we play at 'theories of everything' that do not include it. For me that suggests that we are living in the Middle Ages. We think that we are at the end of history, highly advanced, and nearly understand everything. And yet we obviously barely understand anything. In the west, we currently have a bad habit of discounting anything that conflicts with the idea that our own consciousness is utterly irrelevant to the functioning of reality. We say that any other point of view is primitive magic or religion. Experiences like DMT tend to remind us not to be so naive, by challenging the subject and object duality that is the basis of this mistake.
It's probably good that as a culture we are growing beyond the truly childish religions that imagine gods as if they are powerful external beings, who are fond of arbitrary rules. I wish we could do it a bit quicker in fact, as the current Christians / Muslims vs atheists debate is childish in the extreme. But Eastern 'religions' are very different and the best ones are a great deal more interesting.
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